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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?

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Inspire97
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Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2014 21:47
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If future RLX's (or similar cars) are to be designed and made here in the United States, how will this affect the Honda Legend in other markets? Will they be Acuras or continue to be Hondas? Will Acura have that much power?
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2014 21:57
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From Acura's point of view - if they can sell units in a market where they don't have a presence, why wouldn't they? Economies of scale would make it more than worthwhile I would think.
jshaw
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2014 23:48
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Not that easy to just setup another dealer network - or even attach one to an existing network (see: Lexus in Europe; Hyundai Genesis/Equus in NA).


More importantly, I think Acura NA is not willing to internationally sell US-made/developed Acuras under the Honda badge (reference: Honda MDX).

IntegraDC5R
Profile for IntegraDC5R
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 00:10
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I hope so, the Honda Legend just sounds so much better than Acura RLzzz, I mean X.
sadlerau
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 00:45
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jshaw wrote:

More importantly, I think Acura NA is not willing to internationally sell US-made/developed Acuras under the Honda badge (reference: Honda MDX).



The reason for the no show of the MDX on the Japanese and Australian markets was purely that Japan didn't have a big enough market for the vehicle, and Australia's miniscule market didn't justify the cost on it's own.

jshaw
Profile for jshaw
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 01:30
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sadlerau wrote:
jshaw wrote:

More importantly, I think Acura NA is not willing to internationally sell US-made/developed Acuras under the Honda badge (reference: Honda MDX).



The reason for the no show of the MDX on the Japanese and Australian markets was purely that Japan didn't have a big enough market for the vehicle, and Australia's miniscule market didn't justify the cost on it's own.


I remember there being sentiment, after the Honda MDX, Acura NA wouldn't do such a thing again.

Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 03:21
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jshaw wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
jshaw wrote:

More importantly, I think Acura NA is not willing to internationally sell US-made/developed Acuras under the Honda badge (reference: Honda MDX).



The reason for the no show of the MDX on the Japanese and Australian markets was purely that Japan didn't have a big enough market for the vehicle, and Australia's miniscule market didn't justify the cost on it's own.


I remember there being sentiment, after the Honda MDX, Acura NA wouldn't do such a thing again.



If this is the case, then Honda is being totally backasswards. While Lexus is a somewhat autonomous division of Toyota, I'm sure Toyota wouldn't let Lexus tell them that they can't use the RX to create a Harrier or the GS for a Crown.

I think part of what is killing Acura's export possibilities is that their lineup is much too North American-centric, not to mention not designed for RHD markets. There is no way cars like the ILX, 4g TL or ZDX would ever fly in Europe or Japan as serious luxury contenders.

The simplest and most elegant solution is for Honda to emulate Toyota and spinoff Acura into a semi-autonomous division based in Japan with either Berkman or someone like Wolfgang Bernhard or Johan De Nysschen at the helm and either sell them alongside Hondas as the Acura TLX by Honda in markets where Acura doesn't exist or rebadge them as Hondas as long as the market will take them.

sadlerau
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 04:10
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I can still hear the cries of anguish emanating from the sales staff in Honda dealerships here in SUV hungry Australia, when it was learnt we weren't getting the second gen MDX! I can understand the monetary reasoning, but boy did they ever miss an opportunity to develop a high profit market share.
Nick GravesX
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 04:44
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First off, forget Honda Legends. However good the car may be, it'll never sell as the battery-thinkers have little discernment and thus badge snobbery is rife. I think there were more NSXs than Legends in the UK.

It's gonna be an uphill struggle for a brand no-one's heard of, such as Acura.

Thus, the cars ought really optimised for the NA & BRICS markets right now.

Once the brand has sufficient strength in its prime markets, they can try to expand into the olde worlde too.

Thing is, a slightly lingering transatlantic trashiness (read Buick) seems to be harming the cars in the USDM and they will need to be more sophisticated for there too. Which means they will become less unappealing in JDM, EU & Oz. Tastes are converging, probably largely due to Failwagen propaganda.

However, to the olde worlde, nothing looks quite as ridiculously transatlantic trashy as a Cadillac, which is why they'll never break through here - despite several attempts. Acuras have a massive advantage there already.




Nick GravesX
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 04:53
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Caveat; this rather presumes the new guard realise that one must treat Acura as a proper brand - or else kick it in the head.

They'll equally probably repeat the same mistakes of yore & wonder why no-one buys the next NSX or RWD Legend yet again. I like to hope the corporate insanity is now better and they don't forget to keep taking the drugs.

BG
Profile for BG
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 05:31
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Honda has always considered themselves to be premium in Europe, what are the market shares like in overseas countries that sell both now??

Is Honda becoming less premium due to Acura in China, UAE, Russia??

Will the jetsetters now be demanding the AcuraJet, will HondaJet now be relegated to low fares airline!!

If Acura is more premium than Honda, then what is Hondajet??

I think Honda is in serious danger of losing it's brand credibility, nevermind what it's already lost with ToV'ers...

If people have to explain what their purchase is to the next guy, then the problem is the brand!!

Oh so I see you bought a Porsche, Rolls Royce etc. nice!!

Oh you bought a what.... wait I can't see the logo or distinguish what the hell it is.... what's that??
It's an Acura
Really, an Acura??
Let me explain..... more premium Hon..
Oh sorry I've lost interest already!!

This is probably where the whole Acura R&D, go it alone side of things, come into the equation.

Acura should've also bought Bertone, Honda should kill Acura and buy the rights to Duesenberg, Duesenberg by Bertone... loving it!!






Fan Koni
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 07:00
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Honda could intro Acura as a line of lux sports Hondas first. Like type r.
But that would require some marketing finesse and product that has appeal. The NSX surely. But then?

The mdx downunder is really a fail story. An other one.
Jeep is selling grand Cherokees at a rate Honda could only dream the crv today...

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 07:22
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MDX wasn't a failure, Honda as a marque is quickly becoming a failure!

June 2014 sales in Australia. Month by month it sinks lower..................

1 Toyota 20,808
2 Holden 12,332
3 Hyundai 10,008
4 Mazda 9,374
5 Ford 8,715
6 Mitsubishi 8,281
7 Nissan 7,992
8 Volkswagen 6,597
9 Subaru 3,851
10 Kia 3,305
11 Honda 3,115
12 Jeep 3,110
13 Mercedes-Benz 3,040
14 BMW 2,203
15 Isuzu 2,117
16 Suzuki 2,035
17 Audi 1,809
18 Renault 1,034

I rest my case!

Nick GravesX
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 08:43
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Fan Koni wrote:
Honda could intro Acura as a line of lux sports Hondas first. Like type r.
But that would require some marketing finesse and product that has appeal. The NSX surely. But then?

The mdx downunder is really a fail story. An other one.
Jeep is selling grand Cherokees at a rate Honda could only dream the crv today...



I've often mooted the idea of them introducing an Acura line, sort of like DS/Initiale Paris/Vignale.

It'd be a way of getting the word to mean somathing, before properly separating the brand once it's far stronger.

As for Hondas; with a total dearth of any new premium product, it's no wonder sales are collapsing in EU/Oz. It'd be odd if they weren't.



Fan Koni
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 12:04
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The hybrids could carry the Acura badge. A hybrid mdx and tlx etc.
Once Acura gets their products there the Honda dealers in Europe and Australia will be almost forgotten. Which at least gives them almost clean slate from a brand point. Hugely expensive from a marketing point but.


Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 13:22
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Fan Koni wrote:
Hugely expensive from a marketing point but.



They seem to have no problem spending on marketing!

Inebriated Snake
Profile for Inebriated Snake
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 16:32
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Couldn't they just start selling Acura's in the same show rooms as a start? Like Mini at BMW, Jag/LR, Buick/GMC, Genesis/Hyundai. Its not perfect but it works.

This way they can get unique product like RDX MDX and TLX.

Fan Koni
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Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 19:15
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Mikeydred wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
Hugely expensive from a marketing point but.



They seem to have no problem spending on marketing!



Acura US yeah. But Europe and oz its wasteland.
That said they could fire the guys doing pricing and save some for showroom support.

NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 19:29
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jshaw wrote:
Not that easy to just setup another dealer network - or even attach one to an existing network (see: Lexus in Europe; Hyundai Genesis/Equus in NA).


More importantly, I think Acura NA is not willing to internationally sell US-made/developed Acuras under the Honda badge (reference: Honda MDX).


How about the new NSX??

NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-17-2014 19:53
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Fan Koni wrote:
Honda could intro Acura as a line of lux sports Hondas first. Like type r.
But that would require some marketing finesse and product that has appeal. The NSX surely. But then?

The mdx downunder is really a fail story. An other one.
Jeep is selling grand Cherokees at a rate Honda could only dream the crv today...


G. Cherokee four recalls within one year down under. Sounds familiar to me. Hmmmm...

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-18-2014 06:21
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NoBrainer wrote:
jshaw wrote:
Not that easy to just setup another dealer network - or even attach one to an existing network (see: Lexus in Europe; Hyundai Genesis/Equus in NA).


More importantly, I think Acura NA is not willing to internationally sell US-made/developed Acuras under the Honda badge (reference: Honda MDX).


How about the new NSX??



Good point! As I said above:

Caveat; this rather presumes the new guard realise that one must treat Acura as a proper brand - or else kick it in the head.

They'll equally probably repeat the same mistakes of yore & wonder why no-one buys the next NSX or RWD Legend yet again.

Sooo, unless something's changed since 1.4.14, it looks like they'll be conforming to Einstein's definition of insanity.

And yet it looks like we'll be getting an slow-selling non-premium, blander Spirior Accord, instead of a more premium TLX?

Are they gonna argue the NSX is some sort of 'special case' for badge-engineering?











BG
Profile for BG
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-18-2014 06:37
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^^ I figure they see the NSX "Halo effect" as something that goes beyond the badge, it's NSX, it's the pinnacle of what Hondura can do, and if it's not, then both brands are in even deeper doodoo than we all care to imagine!!
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-18-2014 07:16
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BG wrote:
^^ I figure they see the NSX "Halo effect" as something that goes beyond the badge, it's NSX, it's the pinnacle of what Hondura can do, and if it's not, then both brands are in even deeper doodoo than we all care to imagine!!


Which is precisely the reason they spat their dummies over Americans referring to "Legend", nor Acura and introduced the much-derided Alphabetti-soup instead!

Maybe they should rebrand the division as 'Contradicta'

uborstnik
Profile for uborstnik
Re: Does Acura of America affect overseas premium Hondas?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-21-2014 17:06
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Nick GravesX wrote:
[...]
Sooo, unless something's changed since 1.4.14, it looks like they'll be conforming to Einstein's definition of insanity.

And yet it looks like we'll be getting an slow-selling non-premium, blander Spirior Accord, instead of a more premium TLX?

[...]


My wife and I recently bought an Accord in Europe. We both love the car. Plus, it's different from all the Audi/BMW/Mercedes on the road here in "rich" Switerland. After a lengthy research project that my uncle compared to a doctoral dissertation, and a good deal for our Type S 6MT with all the bells & whistles, we decided for the Accord instead of what I saw as the competition according to our criteria, primarily the Volvo V40, Hyundai ix40, and Mazda 6. The car was available at the dealer in a nice interior+exterior color; that or a diesel automatic. Even if it seemed excessive to me at the time it has paid off in that it is very comfortable for full-day travel and it is generally a joy to drive both in highways on mountain passes.

We did not consider the Civic because the styling is simply not to our taste; that, plus the wagon was not yet available.

From what I have heard of the Spirior I would definitely hesitate before buying it. Not so with a TLX. Also, I would specifically avoid any turbo and diesel engines. Before buying our car we rented, borrowed, and used carsharing a lot so I got to compare a lot of cars. It made me appreciate the immediate torque, at least from a standing start, available in the carsharing hybrid Jazz (not to mention my current K24Z3), in contrast to the lag of various diesels and turbo gas engines I've driven. I almost had an accident when merging onto a traffic circle due to a nonresponsive Renault turbodiesel. When I press the pedal, I want power now. Also, the actual fuel consumption of our Accord is less than I feared. In contrast, the "official" fuel efficiency of a Ford Ecoboost I've driven is pure fantasy on highways; the fuel consumption of an Opel diesel at a measly 100 km/h on a flat highway is about the same as our Accord in hilly, pure city driving with the A/C on (~10 L/100km). I still can't believe the diesel used so much fuel.

We might as well wait it out with the Accord, possibly buying something more friendly for the city if we'll need to use the car daily in the future. I'm eyeing the Jazz hybrid or CR-Z. I love the hybrid Jazz for city driving but it is not meant for anything above 80 km/h (or I'm spoiled by my Accord). The manual CR-Z might be the better choice since my wife is adamant about having a manual (though she doesn't like the styling). She comes from a family of mechanics from before WWII and doesn't trust the gremlins in automatics. While I don't mind the Jazz CVT (+torque converter+paddle shifters), keeping a manual transmission is certainly a fun option—a bonus if the wife insists :). Plus, she has a valid point. And she thinks the Accord is too wide for parking in European garages. Again she has a point.

On a side note: I drove the abomination of an automated manual in city traffic twice: an i-Shift Jazz that was almost as scary as the Smart car. Thank goodness for some degree of gear selection, even if the operation is different in every car—I suppose you get used to a car you use frequently.

Since I had regularly only driven 5MTs before it took a while to get used to the 6MT in the Accord—and I still think the 6th gear is way too low.


 
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