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TOV Forums > TSX > > Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?

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Hondatalover
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Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-10-2014 19:23
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http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/tsx-build-threads/111442-awd-brown-tsx-project.html#post1397033

I didn't beg him to do this.

He's trying to source a Accord CL8 (CL7,9(TSX) with AWD) but they're super rare apparently.

What I am begging him to do is use SH-AWD and take on the headaches of ECU and harnesses working. lol. Interesting, I hope it works for him.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-10-2014 20:12
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Bah, humbug. Some of us on this forum have been BEGGING Honda to give us a SH-AWD TSX since, oh 2006?

The missus keeps warning me I'm turning into a grumpy and bitter old man. Truth hurts!

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-10-2014 20:34
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One day I would like to construct my TSX with SH-AWD. ...one day will never come though. I'm not 'man enough' to do those things.
LudeLeRoy
Profile for LudeLeRoy
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-10-2014 22:21
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Hondatalover wrote:
http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/tsx-build-threads/111442-awd-brown-tsx-project.html#post1397033

I didn't beg him to do this.

He's trying to source a Accord CL8 (CL7,9(TSX) with AWD) but they're super rare apparently.

What I am begging him to do is use SH-AWD and take on the headaches of ECU and harnesses working. lol. Interesting, I hope it works for him.



I've wanted to do this to my TSX as well - problem is the AWD version (CL8) as I understand it only came as AUTOMATICS (boo) and wagons and more rare than hens teeth. I'd be pysched to have the regular AWD system - adding SHAWD would likely require all sorts of software etc. and would be an expensive and costly undertaking. In my many years on tsxclub I don't think I've seen a North American pull off (or even try?) the conversion.

It'd be cool if someone developed and sold a conversion kit (hi Shawn Church!;o).

LudeLeRoy
Profile for LudeLeRoy
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-10-2014 22:59
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EDIT: you seem to be encouraging the guy and helping him brainstorm ideas and dropping some knowledge - kudos!
azntsx5at
Profile for azntsx5at
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-10-2014 23:56
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i've always dreamt of a first gen facelift tsx with gen 1 rdx powertrain. it would've been an amazing type S variant and exploit the cl9 chassis very well.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-11-2014 05:04
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Because of the car's more similar proportions, I wonder if you could more easily install the system from an RL? Its roll, pitch yaw calibrations are likely similar & it's the full-fat torque distribution system. And it's circa 300 BHP out of the box...
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-11-2014 20:51
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Nick GravesX wrote:
Because of the car's more similar proportions, I wonder if you could more easily install the system from an RL? Its roll, pitch yaw calibrations are likely similar & it's the full-fat torque distribution system. And it's circa 300 BHP out of the box...


Forget it... just get an MDX. Otherwise you're just pissing into the wind and the K24 just doesn't have the torque for the added mass and justify SH-AWD.

I might want to replace our 14 Wagon with the v6 RDX AWD, but it's not SH-AWD now and the MDX got pricey...

The TL MT6 SH-AWD was vaporware. We looked for a '14... nowhere to be found in the production list.




Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-12-2014 09:19
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TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
Because of the car's more similar proportions, I wonder if you could more easily install the system from an RL? Its roll, pitch yaw calibrations are likely similar & it's the full-fat torque distribution system. And it's circa 300 BHP out of the box...


Forget it... just get an MDX. Otherwise you're just pissing into the wind and the K24 just doesn't have the torque for the added mass and justify SH-AWD.

I might want to replace our 14 Wagon with the v6 RDX AWD, but it's not SH-AWD now and the MDX got pricey...

The TL MT6 SH-AWD was vaporware. We looked for a '14... nowhere to be found in the production list.


I too think Honda made a mistake in downgrading the AWD of the RDX but after driving the current version against our '09 I'm not sure a compact SUV driver can tell much of a difference in the curves. You will panic and chicken out long before either car starts to rotate or perhaps roll over. When you look at the curb weights for the two versions and picture placing a wheel/tire from either on a scale it becomes more obvious where the planted driving feel comes from. It's just awkward for a sports car driving fan.

I sat in a '14 MDX Tech at my dealer just yesterday. The thing feels more like an uber-luxury Odyssey than ever, which is okay I guess. It looked like it has almost as much cargo space behind the 3rd row of seats as our RDX does behind the back seats. I need to drive one but I'm not optimistic about Pure Driving Pleasure. I'd be looking at the SH-AWD Base version it I were buying. I'm more convinced now though the price differences between the RDX and MDX are valid due to feature content. The RDX looks like a great Honda whereas the MDX feature list looks like Honda was visited by aliens.

As for mashing up a TSX with SH-AWD I think it would be a great way to turn a great car into a lifeless, boring drive. The system cancels out any sense of the edge until you get to huge speeds such as triple posted corner speeds on US roads but then the weight of the cars Acura puts it in becomes the problem. It might be fun if you then swap in an LS-X to 4x the power but otherwise, no. I've never driven a 2G RL though.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-12-2014 09:42
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Grace141 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
Because of the car's more similar proportions, I wonder if you could more easily install the system from an RL? Its roll, pitch yaw calibrations are likely similar & it's the full-fat torque distribution system. And it's circa 300 BHP out of the box...


Forget it... just get an MDX. Otherwise you're just pissing into the wind and the K24 just doesn't have the torque for the added mass and justify SH-AWD.

I might want to replace our 14 Wagon with the v6 RDX AWD, but it's not SH-AWD now and the MDX got pricey...

The TL MT6 SH-AWD was vaporware. We looked for a '14... nowhere to be found in the production list.


I too think Honda made a mistake in downgrading the AWD of the RDX but after driving the current version against our '09 I'm not sure a compact SUV driver can tell much of a difference in the curves. You will panic and chicken out long before either car starts to rotate or perhaps roll over. When you look at the curb weights for the two versions and picture placing a wheel/tire from either on a scale it becomes more obvious where the planted driving feel comes from. It's just awkward for a sports car driving fan.

I sat in a '14 MDX Tech at my dealer just yesterday. The thing feels more like an uber-luxury Odyssey than ever, which is okay I guess. It looked like it has almost as much cargo space behind the 3rd row of seats as our RDX does behind the back seats. I need to drive one but I'm not optimistic about Pure Driving Pleasure. I'd be looking at the SH-AWD Base version it I were buying. I'm more convinced now though the price differences between the RDX and MDX are valid due to feature content. The RDX looks like a great Honda whereas the MDX feature list looks like Honda was visited by aliens.

As for mashing up a TSX with SH-AWD I think it would be a great way to turn a great car into a lifeless, boring drive. The system cancels out any sense of the edge until you get to huge speeds such as triple posted corner speeds on US roads but then the weight of the cars Acura puts it in becomes the problem. It might be fun if you then swap in an LS-X to 4x the power but otherwise, no. I've never driven a 2G RL though.



I feel sorry for you lot with your endless sunshine. You rarely get to drift an RLegendo round a greasy roundabout. A smaller TSX V6 would do it just that bit more easily.

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-12-2014 09:57
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Grace141 wrote:

I've never driven a 2G RL though.



So you've never driven a SH-AWD sedan? Get to drive an A-Spec RL, then tell me SH-AWD is not worth having in a TSX sized car!

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-12-2014 14:11
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Me and the guy have been talking on the phone.

He has a pretty big, not not endless budget and he's all of the SH-AWD idea and mix-match K24, K23 Turbo and K20 engine build to reach his 700HP goal. The car will be used as a drag car and driven on the street every now and then he said, but we came ot the conclusion that using VTM-4 (Or which ever Honda AWD it was) will be ok since it's a tad lighter, cheaper, more readily available and less complex to work with. However he still is having trouble finding the CL8 parts he needs (Like the read cradle assembly, ect.).

He said he would have gone through with SH-AWD if he could source someone to help him (other than me all the way down here in NC, he's in Ontario) with the electronics.


He's a cool guy, 29 and I am all for this project of course.

LudeLeRoy, yes, I am encouraging him over on TSX club! lol



Overall I am sure SH-AWD can be fitted and worked properly once the ECU, sensors and harnesses were adapted and played with. The only problem is it could take a very long time to get everything right because to my knowledge no one has messed with SH-AWD conversions...

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-12-2014 14:15
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sadlerau wrote:
Grace141 wrote:

I've never driven a 2G RL though.



So you've never driven a SH-AWD sedan? Get to drive an A-Spec RL, then tell me SH-AWD is not worth having in a TSX sized car!


I'm not saying a compact AWD sedan wouldn't be fun to drive. I'm saying it's not going to happen because while Honda wouldn't give it enough power to make it fun I just don't think it's physically possible to fit a drivetrain into a compact sedan which provides enough power. By the time you develop enough power you're looking at a TLX sized car to fit everything together.

There are folks here at TOV who dream of an SH-AWD ILX but they're just destined for more heartaches. I'll say here that anything less than 300hp is just not worth the hassle of SH-AWD if you want a sport sedan that feels chuckable and lively. To be honest, the only sporty cars I see in the Acura pipeline which perhaps appear to offer a high-end AWD sports car feel are the RLX eSH-AWD thing in whatever manner it eventually appears and the second coming of the NSX.

I get the compact sports sedan dream but people are really just asking for a modern Datsun 810/1G Maxima plus-sized for safety. That means RWD in an ILX if you want that kind of performance without a dead stick feel. It's the same issue which makes my Fit more fun to throw about than my Accord. You could, of course, just seriously down size the tires on an SH-AWD TSX but that goes against the logic these days.

NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-12-2014 21:05
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Grace141 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
Because of the car's more similar proportions, I wonder if you could more easily install the system from an RL? Its roll, pitch yaw calibrations are likely similar & it's the full-fat torque distribution system. And it's circa 300 BHP out of the box...

Forget it... just get an MDX. Otherwise you're just pissing into the wind and the K24 just doesn't have the torque for the added mass and justify SH-AWD.

I might want to replace our 14 Wagon with the v6 RDX AWD, but it's not SH-AWD now and the MDX got pricey...

The TL MT6 SH-AWD was vaporware. We looked for a '14... nowhere to be found in the production list.


I too think Honda made a mistake in downgrading the AWD of the RDX but after driving the current version against our '09 I'm not sure a compact SUV driver can tell much of a difference in the curves. You will panic and chicken out long before either car starts to rotate or perhaps roll over. When you look at the curb weights for the two versions and picture placing a wheel/tire from either on a scale it becomes more obvious where the planted driving feel comes from. It's just awkward for a sports car driving fan.

I sat in a '14 MDX Tech at my dealer just yesterday. The thing feels more like an uber-luxury Odyssey than ever, which is okay I guess. It looked like it has almost as much cargo space behind the 3rd row of seats as our RDX does behind the back seats. I need to drive one but I'm not optimistic about Pure Driving Pleasure. I'd be looking at the SH-AWD Base version it I were buying. I'm more convinced now though the price differences between the RDX and MDX are valid due to feature content. The RDX looks like a great Honda whereas the MDX feature list looks like Honda was visited by aliens.

As for mashing up a TSX with SH-AWD I think it would be a great way to turn a great car into a lifeless, boring drive. The system cancels out any sense of the edge until you get to huge speeds such as triple posted corner speeds on US roads but then the weight of the cars Acura puts it in becomes the problem. It might be fun if you then swap in an LS-X to 4x the power but otherwise, no. I've never driven a 2G RL though.


I found that the 1G RDX weighs pretty close to 2G RL(MY 2009).
The current gen. MDX weighs a bit more after going thru' some severe weight reductions.

I think Grace and Sadler are just looking at two sides of the same coin.



Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-13-2014 07:43
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TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
Because of the car's more similar proportions, I wonder if you could more easily install the system from an RL? Its roll, pitch yaw calibrations are likely similar & it's the full-fat torque distribution system. And it's circa 300 BHP out of the box...


Forget it... just get an MDX. Otherwise you're just pissing into the wind and the K24 just doesn't have the torque for the added mass and justify SH-AWD.

I might want to replace our 14 Wagon with the v6 RDX AWD, but it's not SH-AWD now and the MDX got pricey...

The TL MT6 SH-AWD was vaporware. We looked for a '14... nowhere to be found in the production list.






K24? If I wanted a Cub engine, I'd order a (fake) Pizza.

Drop the J35/7 in there as well.

If I wanted to look stupidly tall, I'd get some stilts & fall over, not buy a bloody C/SUV.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-13-2014 09:07
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NoBrainer wrote:
I found that the 1G RDX weighs pretty close to 2G RL(MY 2009).
The current gen. MDX weighs a bit more after going thru' some severe weight reductions.

I think Grace and Sadler are just looking at two sides of the same coin.


Yes, I know we are. Sadler's comments about his RL make me look at the Accord-like bargain prices on 3 and 4-year old RLs at my dealer. It's tempting. With what SH-AWD can do in our RDX I can imagine the driving feel of the RL with its consistent power delivery.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-13-2014 19:23
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Grace141 wrote:
NoBrainer wrote:
I found that the 1G RDX weighs pretty close to 2G RL(MY 2009).
The current gen. MDX weighs a bit more after going thru' some severe weight reductions.

I think Grace and Sadler are just looking at two sides of the same coin.


Yes, I know we are. Sadler's comments about his RL make me look at the Accord-like bargain prices on 3 and 4-year old RLs at my dealer. It's tempting. With what SH-AWD can do in our RDX I can imagine the driving feel of the RL with its consistent power delivery.



At least drive one, even if you don't buy it!

They really are seriously under-rated. And undervalued.

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-19-2014 12:02
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We're still looking for CL8 parts and have had no luck. It might come down to having a CL8 imported over here, using what we need and then parting the rest of the car out.
Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Anyone want a AWD TSX?    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2014 17:53
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Parts are found! :)

 
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