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  TOV News > American Honda Reports June 2014 Sales > > Re: ILX having a horrible sales run....

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sbarnesjr
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ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-02-2014 18:57
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The ILX is performing worse than the Accord Hybid did back in the 2000's and they killed the Element? People were actually buying these!!!
chhan02
Profile for chhan02
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 09:15
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Good...maybe they'll finally wake the f**k up!

I actually miss the element...hopefully the HR-V will deliver.

Popeyes2k
Profile for Popeyes2k
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 10:17
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chhan02 wrote:
Good...maybe they'll finally wake the f**k up!



I agree.......the 2.4L with auto would have turned this around a bit
.....idiots

rocky
Profile for rocky
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 10:17
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No surprise at the outcome at all. When you bring a toy gun to a shootout, you get killed.
Cory
Profile for Cory
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 11:16
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What's striking to me is how obvious it was that the ILX would fail. It just isn't competitive in any way. The base models have terrible engine powertrain combos and really don't offer much more than a loaded Civic EX-L that costs thousands of dollars less. The "sporty" model can't be had with an automatic and lacks some features found on the cheaper Civic Si.

When you are outclassed by your own lower brand cars there's no way you are going to compete in the near-luxury market. How Honda management didn't see this is beyond me.

Even if a MMC drastically changes the car the nameplate already has a huge "LOSER" stamp on it. That perception is going to be virtually impossible to change.

People seem to be heaping a lot of hope onto the coming TLX but I am worried about it as well. Yes it looks nice (though some of the preproduction pictures make it look watered down from the handsome concept) but it still is a FWD car trying to compete with RWD/AWD competitors in the luxury market. It still has the "slightly nicer Honda" feel to it.

I don't see it winning any sales from BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti owners. I see it selling predominantly to people already buying from Honda/Acura. Someone moving up from a top end Accord to something a bit more exclusive or someone trading in their TSX/TL for another Acura.

Acura needs NEW buyers. I just don't see the TLX as being a compelling enough of a product to bring in as many new buyers as Acura desperately needs.

integrator
Profile for integrator
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 14:18
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Cory wrote:
" What's striking to me is how obvious it was that the ILX would fail. It just isn't competitive in any way. The base models have terrible engine powertrain combos and really don't offer much more than a loaded Civic EX-L that costs thousands of dollars less. The "sporty" model can't be had with an automatic and lacks some features found on the cheaper Civic Si. "

When you are outclassed by your own lower brand cars there's no way you are going to compete in the near-luxury market. How Honda management didn't see this is beyond me....

....People seem to be heaping a lot of hope onto the coming TLX but I am worried about it as well. ...It still has the "slightly nicer Honda" feel to it."


The same could be said of the RLX and I think Acura should be worried also. At least Jeff Conrad is gone. The prior management had a Buick vision and couldn't even outsell the Buick rivals. That has to change. To me, being given the directive to change Acura to Smart Luxury is not an excuse. I'm given general concepts and expected to create the mode of action around it. The end result is my creation and my responsibility. So that doesn't remove accountability from Conrad.

The TLX to me is the last of the failed managers influenced products. Lets hope for better for 'after TLX'. But I'm skeptical on its arrival also....and the RLX e-SHAWD and the NSX.

If I were the VP of the Acura brand, those last two models would be cancelled in their current forms.. the vehicle rethought and redesigned where necessary. I suspect that's whats happening because I'm currently undergoing that process across seven sites in my new company - and its a long, hard road. I would also concentrate on the RDX MMC, the ILX redesign. I'd develop and train personnel for an overriding vision for the Acura brand, beyond Honda. Mendel and Contrad's vision was what you'd expect of Ford management's vision of Lincoln. Acura deserves better. And its customers expect better. I'm willing to give Accavitti and Berkmann a chance to influence the company's products. But that's the next intro after the TLX. They either do it or they don't. Thats my individual line in the sand for Acura.




Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 15:08
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sbarnesjr wrote:
The ILX is performing worse than the Accord Hybid did back in the 2000's and they killed the Element? People were actually buying these!!!

This month's numbers are highly deceiving. 2014s are drawing down and there was a gap in production to the start of '15s. Also, don't forget that the base models have been under a Stop Sale order for the 2nd half of the month. Generally, the ILX is outperforming the last Civic based sedan Acura sold, the 3G Integra 4 door.

Honda-D
Profile for Honda-D
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 17:11
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Cory wrote:
Acura needs NEW buyers. I just don't see the TLX as being a compelling enough of a product to bring in as many new buyers as Acura desperately needs.


It's going to be tough when the Germans are coming down in price to fight them. CLA/GLA/Q3/A3/2/x1 are all within reach of top end price of ILX.

While the Germans can get away with cheap materials (Especially BMW, I'm looking at you!) Acura can't afford to have cheap material because the engineering/design/brand pedigree is already pretty weak.

ILX should be a WRX mechanically with RL level of interior for the current price in order for it to have a fighting chance.




Popeyes2k
Profile for Popeyes2k
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-06-2014 13:28
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I somewhat agree with that. Turbo-charged SH-AWD 4cyl would be perfect

Please bring back Precision Crafted Performance

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-06-2014 15:31
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Cory wrote:
What's striking to me is how obvious it was that the ILX would fail. It just isn't competitive in any way. The base models have terrible engine powertrain combos and really don't offer much more than a loaded Civic EX-L that costs thousands of dollars less. The "sporty" model can't be had with an automatic and lacks some features found on the cheaper Civic Si.

When you are outclassed by your own lower brand cars there's no way you are going to compete in the near-luxury market. How Honda management didn't see this is beyond me.

Even if a MMC drastically changes the car the nameplate already has a huge "LOSER" stamp on it. That perception is going to be virtually impossible to change.

People seem to be heaping a lot of hope onto the coming TLX but I am worried about it as well. Yes it looks nice (though some of the preproduction pictures make it look watered down from the handsome concept) but it still is a FWD car trying to compete with RWD/AWD competitors in the luxury market. It still has the "slightly nicer Honda" feel to it.

I don't see it winning any sales from BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti owners. I see it selling predominantly to people already buying from Honda/Acura. Someone moving up from a top end Accord to something a bit more exclusive or someone trading in their TSX/TL for another Acura.

Acura needs NEW buyers. I just don't see the TLX as being a compelling enough of a product to bring in as many new buyers as Acura desperately needs.



The ILX has been a victim of circumstance. At the time it came out it WAS an upgrade over the Civic - but that Civic was the 2012 Civic. The Civic was too important for Honda to just let it languish in critical reception hell so it needed a quick update and it has gotten them. (It's funny because people are saying that an MMC won't do much good for the ILX...hasn't it done fairly well for the Civic? Are Honda dealers still having to discount them/incentivize them big to move metal? We haven't been hearing that for a while - if anyone knows what's going on with that then please comment.) The ILX has hung on in it's basic day-one shape because Acura was presented with two pretty unattractive options: update it quickly and spend a lot of unexpected money...or wait and just let it do what it does then be able to fix it maybe a bit more properly at the normal MMC time. I think they made the right choice personally. In some ways it's amazing that the ILX has failed so hard while the RDX has succeeded so spectacularly because they are kind of the same...in some ways the RDX has succeeded mainly because the J series is such a good V6 engine. I'm not trying to defend what Honda/Acura did here - the ILX clearly is a failed product - but looking back on it it's kind of easy to see what has happened and why.

In some ways the ILX is helped by it's slow sales and fairly poor critical reception - the word on it has no where to go but up and a lot of people are probably not that aware of it. And, as it seems like it might happen, Acura might be unleashing all sorts of MMCs and updates next year so as part of a larger brand upswell it will get some boost from that. If the MMC comes out and it's everything that we could hope for and it gets great reviews and Acura releases some fun and meaningful advertising...why can't it succeed? I don't see it as impossible - just very very hard to pull off.

Acura has 25 years of selling cars as a FWD/AWD competing with the RWD/AWD cars of the world. The TLX has some good buzzwords and if it can back up those buzzwords with real-world performance then I don't see why it won't steal some sales from BMW, Lexus, MB, Infiniti. The critical reception is all-important here. If nobody likes it then..yes...it will struggle to steal sales...but if the reviews are good then why not? I can definitely see people cross shopping the 320i, IS250 and ATS 2.5L with the TLX 2.4. Hell for $31K it will be attractive to a lot of people I'd have to think and I think it could bring in a lot of new buyers. That $41K TLX SH-AWD Tech will be pretty appealing to A4 2.0T Quattro, 335xi, ATS 2.0T/3.6 AWD, IS350AWD buyers I would have to think. ES buyers will look at the TLX V6 and see more power, better fuel economy and be at least slightly interested.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-06-2014 21:53
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Cory wrote:
What's striking to me is how obvious it was that the ILX would fail. It just isn't competitive in any way. The base models have terrible engine powertrain combos and really don't offer much more than a loaded Civic EX-L that costs thousands of dollars less. The "sporty" model can't be had with an automatic and lacks some features found on the cheaper Civic Si.

When you are outclassed by your own lower brand cars there's no way you are going to compete in the near-luxury market. How Honda management didn't see this is beyond me.




Yep, that is Ito's "Smart Luxury" direction. When Acura should have been and was moving more upscale on the huge success of the 3rd Gen TL and 2nd Gen MDX Ito took them into a completely opposite direction. He killed the engaging class competitive RWD sedans/coupes, V10 ASC, and DOHC V6's and V8's in the works or in later stages for a more Buickized, unengaging, "green", safe cost cut lineup, that was even closer to Honda core products, even SH-AWD was cut or became only an option on many vehicles.

Ito is not a big power/performance/luxury car type of guy. He was perfect for some in Honda management who don't want to invest and were more interested in cutting cost. Ito thought or hoped after the economic collapse and maybe even Obama getting elected that the traditional luxury market was basically done for and buyers of upscale cars would not want to be seen in or pay for typical rwd luxury image cars, would care much more about fuel economy and emissions then performance, and would not mind cars being more similar to a mainstream lineup. Ito had the same vision for Honda cars, cost cut, non performance, and "safe", he could not have been more wrong. That vision and direction was a abject failure and embarrassment, something we warned was not going to work and look at sales and reviews of their care lineup. Less then a 1000 units for each sedan and last place in a more crowded market.

Most other makes invested even more in their products for when the economy started recovering and it paid off when the car market came back, Ito cut luxury/performance and now they are frantically trying to play catch up and have no real direction. It seems Ito and upper management are still too afraid and conservative to make any rwd/V8 moves into the luxury market which will continue to hurt the image of Acura and keep them mostly uncompetitive, they are being passed by. They keep doing the same thing over and over and it is just not working especially with the RLX.

The ILX is pretty much hopeless at this point, they should just kill it and replace it with a real integra premium/luxury sport hatch or coupe or better yet make a small rwd sports sedan for their entry level sedan. The ILX represents everything wrong with the "smart luxury" approach, the only bright spot is the 6 speed 2.4 and that is a limited market. Unless they put in the powertrain from the Euro Civic R and make it relatively affordable and give it SH-AWD I don't see how anything they do to the ILX will cause any buzz or really help sales/image.

Chris David
Profile for Chris David
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 08:09
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iutodd wrote:
Cory wrote:
What's striking to me is how obvious it was that the ILX would fail......


The ILX has been a victim of circumstance. ...

In some ways the ILX is helped by it's slow sales and fairly poor critical reception....



As Cory points out, it was obvious to most of here the the ILX was not a competitive product when it first came out. Go back and look at comments when it was released. We were hoping for a modern Integra and the disappointment was pretty widespread.

The ILX is a victim of poor product design and management. I don't see any MMC really helping it. It is crippled by either the Civic platform, or Honda's refusal to admit luxry buyers care about performance.

iutodd, I'm a little baffled by that last sentence. I don't see how poor sales and reviews help any car, and the sales trends show there is still plenty of room for things to get worse.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 08:38
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I'd state that the lousy reception had damaged the 'ILX' name, which is why a MMC might have a limited/slow effect.

It's a fairly pretty car, but I suspect it would take a major MMC to make it properly competitive & the expense might not be covered by the predicted uptick in sales, as would a FMC where the whole thing is perceived as 'new'.


DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 11:44
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Nick GravesX wrote:
I'd state that the lousy reception had damaged the 'ILX' name, which is why a MMC might have a limited/slow effect.

It's a fairly pretty car, but I suspect it would take a major MMC to make it properly competitive & the expense might not be covered by the predicted uptick in sales, as would a FMC where the whole thing is perceived as 'new'.




The MMC will do nothing for the ILX. It may have improved things for the Civic, but since that car is a household name in the US, that is hardly surprising.

Lots of fortune tellers in here:

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1059433&page_number=1&article_id=1057682

Chris David
Profile for Chris David
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 13:13
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DCR wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
I'd state that the lousy reception had damaged the 'ILX' name, which is why a MMC might have a limited/slow effect.

It's a fairly pretty car, but I suspect it would take a major MMC to make it properly competitive & the expense might not be covered by the predicted uptick in sales, as would a FMC where the whole thing is perceived as 'new'.




The MMC will do nothing for the ILX. It may have improved things for the Civic, but since that car is a household name in the US, that is hardly surprising.

Lots of fortune tellers in here:

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=1059433&page_number=1&article_id=1057682




Overall, I think TOV is a pretty accurate predictor of sales success. You can find very early praise for the 8th gen Civic and 4th gen TL, and pretty much universal disappointment with the CR-Z, ILX and the 09 TL's styling.


I'm sure the site must be blocked at all Honda offices lest the workers be exposed to our anti-earth dreams propaganda. Maybe we could send Denis Rodman to try to talk some sense into them.

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 14:16
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Chris David wrote:
iutodd wrote:
Cory wrote:
What's striking to me is how obvious it was that the ILX would fail......


The ILX has been a victim of circumstance. ...

In some ways the ILX is helped by it's slow sales and fairly poor critical reception....



As Cory points out, it was obvious to most of here the the ILX was not a competitive product when it first came out. Go back and look at comments when it was released. We were hoping for a modern Integra and the disappointment was pretty widespread.

The ILX is a victim of poor product design and management. I don't see any MMC really helping it. It is crippled by either the Civic platform, or Honda's refusal to admit luxry buyers care about performance.

iutodd, I'm a little baffled by that last sentence. I don't see how poor sales and reviews help any car, and the sales trends show there is still plenty of room for things to get worse.



My point was that the ILX has very little name recognition and presence in the market. It's kind of like the RDX in some ways - the RDX wasn't ever a big seller and was kind of off in a corner by itself. Then the FMC hit and it went crazy. The ILX is in a sort of similar position - it can make a second first impression pretty easily with most buyers I think since it's first impression had little impact. Especially when combined with all the other moves that Acura seemingly has planned for new/updated product in 2015. If the TLX gets good vibes going then that can easily carry over into other products.

I also tend not to trust the initial impressions of TOV as a whole very much. The new CR-V was not liked (and is still not really liked), new Odyssey was not liked, hell the new Accord Coupe was laughed at when they debuted the concept model at Detroit. Now it's basically considered the best looking and best performing Honda you can buy in V6 6MT form. And the CR-V is setting sales records and the Odyssey is leading the segment.

When Jeff reviewed the ILX for TOV his overall impression seemed to be that the car was "fine". In fact if you go back and re-read the thing it's pretty positive about the car. What killed the ILX was the 2013/2014 Civic getting big updates and the ILX not having any perceivable power train separation from the Civic. And that was Jeff's big question about the ILX - it's literally the last line of the review - the lack of power train separation might kill it. And so it has. I think the decision to not update the ILX before now comes down to circumstance - Acura has had other things to do and better things to spend their money on as opposed to spending money on the ILX...especially since we KNOW for a fact that the 8DCT is just now coming online along with other tech and along with a new management structure. Waiting until next year to update the ILX makes more sense then rushing through something that would be out of date as soon as the TLX hits the sales floor. Wouldn't we all be disappointed with an ILX update that kept the 5AT? Why would Acura spend a lot of money changing a bunch of stuff about the ILX to fit the 2.4L and the 5AT (or CVT) when the 8CT is coming right behind? The turbos aren't ready yet so...what else was Acura supposed to do? And...yeah, at some point you have to update a product no matter what is coming (the MDX) but leaving the ILX as is makes a lot of sense to me.

mad_ox1
Profile for mad_ox1
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 14:39
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iutodd wrote:
Now it's basically considered the best looking and best performing Honda you can buy in V6 6MT form.


Isn't that a competition of none?

ipribadi
Profile for ipribadi
Re: ILX having a horrible sales run.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 23:09
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I own an ILX and to me the ILX is not a poor product, it is simply a product out of place.

Powertrain and NVH is no where close to where they should be in such price range.

I would say Acura absolutely should have redone the ILX when they did the '13 Civic.

They could have shoe horned that K24 with 5AT and up the NVH with sound deadening galore and use aluminum body panels to offset the added weight. Redo the exterior lights with LEDs and add some more standard features.

Yes it would cost a lot $$$ since such a redo is not just simply done but must be tested and manufacturing assembly sequences all changed up ... but that's simply owning up for making a bad decision.

Sure it may cost say $3-4K extra per car for doing all that but it is no different than the nearly $4K below invoice they had to put on the hood which made me buy the car plus Acura preserves the ILX name.


 
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