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  TOV News > American Honda Reports June 2014 Sales > > Re: Crazy

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iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-01-2014 14:57
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Remember that AHM had its second best year ever last year.

This year:

The Odyssey is down.
The Pilot is down.
The Fit is down and delayed.
The TL and TSX are WAY down to the point of non existence.
The RLX Sport Hybrid is a myth.
The TLX is delayed.

And AHM is still only down 5,000 units for the year with the TLX, Fit and CRV MMC ahead of them.

The strength of Honda's core is carrying the brand. The Civic, Accord, CRV and MDX are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

And for those who think Honda is panicking this was the plan for 2014. All Honda had on the board for this year was the Fit. All Acura had was the TLX. They trusted their core products to carry them. The delays aren't good but the brand will get through the year in OK shape.

dysonlu
Profile for dysonlu
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-02-2014 04:01
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iutodd wrote:
Remember that AHM had its second best year ever last year.

This year:

The Odyssey is down.
The Pilot is down.
The Fit is down and delayed.
The TL and TSX are WAY down to the point of non existence.
The RLX Sport Hybrid is a myth.
The TLX is delayed.

And AHM is still only down 5,000 units for the year with the TLX, Fit and CRV MMC ahead of them.

The strength of Honda's core is carrying the brand. The Civic, Accord, CRV and MDX are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

And for those who think Honda is panicking this was the plan for 2014. All Honda had on the board for this year was the Fit. All Acura had was the TLX. They trusted their core products to carry them. The delays aren't good but the brand will get through the year in OK shape.




Good post offering a different and more balanced perspective of the situation than the usual doom and gloom whiny circle jerking we usual find here.

MalcolmR
Profile for MalcolmR
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-02-2014 06:25
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.


Thank you dysonlu and lutodd.

Malcolm


Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-02-2014 08:06
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Thirded.


according2kev
Profile for according2kev
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-02-2014 23:17
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dysonlu wrote:
iutodd wrote:
Remember that AHM had its second best year ever last year.

This year:

The Odyssey is down.
The Pilot is down.
The Fit is down and delayed.
The TL and TSX are WAY down to the point of non existence.
The RLX Sport Hybrid is a myth.
The TLX is delayed.

And AHM is still only down 5,000 units for the year with the TLX, Fit and CRV MMC ahead of them.

The strength of Honda's core is carrying the brand. The Civic, Accord, CRV and MDX are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

And for those who think Honda is panicking this was the plan for 2014. All Honda had on the board for this year was the Fit. All Acura had was the TLX. They trusted their core products to carry them. The delays aren't good but the brand will get through the year in OK shape.




Good post offering a different and more balanced perspective of the situation than the usual doom and gloom whiny circle jerking we usual find here.




+ 1. Refreshing.

BallerMDX
Profile for BallerMDX
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 01:02
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iutodd wrote:
The MDX [is] doing exactly what [it's] supposed to do.


Do you people have the same blinders on that Honda/Acura execs do?

OK, so Acura's best selling model is a fairly new mid-size luxury SUV that's pushing a little shy of 5,000 units. Wooptie doo, let's break out the champagne while all other models except the RDX are now drowning under 1k units each.

And before you christen the TLX as Acura's savior, just know that there is no guarantee the TLX will have the same success that the SUVs did. When it comes to luxury SUV/CUVs and luxury sedans, it's a different ballgame. I'm sure the new TLX will sell well enough, but will it be enough to make up for the lose of the TSX/TL? Will it stand up well to the competition which is so much better than when the 3rd gen. TL hit the streets?

The biggest problem I see with the TLX is that the smaller tires, blander wheels, and minor changes to the front and rear fascia were enough to make it lose much of the concepts luxury/sporty detail. Despite the TLX's advanced trannies, PAWS and other tech goodies, will Acura be able to get consumers to see it as a significantly better step up from an (already stellar) Accord? I suspect they could do this through effective marketing, but Acura's marketing, like everything else lately has been, well...

Speaking of the Accord, I have a feeling Honda will expand the popular Sport model for the MMC like Toyota is doing with the Camry (X)SE. (Rather stupid sounding, ain't it?) I can see customers now, "Do I really want to spend the $32k for the base TLX when I can get a handsome Accord Sport-L (with all the bells and whistles of an EX-L and, perhaps, a sportier tuned suspension) for $29k?" Hmmm

Back to the state of Acura: Sugarcoat it all you want guys, but it is indeed "doom and gloom" over at Acura, or at least it should be. BTW, it's also nothing to brag about that a luxury brand has to be "carried" by its mass market parent.






chhan02
Profile for chhan02
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 09:12
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It is going to be up to how it drives. I personally would pay a premium for a TLX if it drives as well as they make it sound. I believe PAWS/SHAWD and the transmissions will be enough to set them apart.

I agree with you. It'll be up to the marketing team...which sucks ass...

Acura is just lucky the MDX sells itself because those commercials are terrible...

Popeyes2k
Profile for Popeyes2k
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 10:20
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If delays mean zero recalls then I'm all for it
dysonlu
Profile for dysonlu
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 10:34
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BallerMDX wrote:
iutodd wrote:
The MDX [is] doing exactly what [it's] supposed to do.


Do you people have the same blinders on that Honda/Acura execs do?

OK, so Acura's best selling model is a fairly new mid-size luxury SUV that's pushing a little shy of 5,000 units. Wooptie doo, let's break out the champagne while all other models except the RDX are now drowning under 1k units each.

And before you christen the TLX as Acura's savior, just know that there is no guarantee the TLX will have the same success that the SUVs did. When it comes to luxury SUV/CUVs and luxury sedans, it's a different ballgame. I'm sure the new TLX will sell well enough, but will it be enough to make up for the lose of the TSX/TL? Will it stand up well to the competition which is so much better than when the 3rd gen. TL hit the streets?

The biggest problem I see with the TLX is that the smaller tires, blander wheels, and minor changes to the front and rear fascia were enough to make it lose much of the concepts luxury/sporty detail. Despite the TLX's advanced trannies, PAWS and other tech goodies, will Acura be able to get consumers to see it as a significantly better step up from an (already stellar) Accord? I suspect they could do this through effective marketing, but Acura's marketing, like everything else lately has been, well...

Speaking of the Accord, I have a feeling Honda will expand the popular Sport model for the MMC like Toyota is doing with the Camry (X)SE. (Rather stupid sounding, ain't it?) I can see customers now, "Do I really want to spend the $32k for the base TLX when I can get a handsome Accord Sport-L (with all the bells and whistles of an EX-L and, perhaps, a sportier tuned suspension) for $29k?" Hmmm

Back to the state of Acura: Sugarcoat it all you want guys, but it is indeed "doom and gloom" over at Acura, or at least it should be. BTW, it's also nothing to brag about that a luxury brand has to be "carried" by its mass market parent.








What a pointless comment. The original post didn't give an all rosy portrait of the situation -- it offered a balanced one with facts to support the poster point. Nobody on this thread attempted to sugarcoat anything so before you jump out of your way to post yet another of those comments we read a million of times already, at least take the time to read the posts.

dysonlu
Profile for dysonlu
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 10:37
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Oh and nobody on this thread christened the TLX as Acura's savior either.
BallerMDX
Profile for BallerMDX
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 15:32
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dysonlu wrote:
BallerMDX wrote:
iutodd wrote:
The MDX [is] doing exactly what [it's] supposed to do.


Do you people have the same blinders on that Honda/Acura execs do?

OK, so Acura's best selling model is a fairly new mid-size luxury SUV that's pushing a little shy of 5,000 units. Wooptie doo, let's break out the champagne while all other models except the RDX are now drowning under 1k units each.

And before you christen the TLX as Acura's savior, just know that there is no guarantee the TLX will have the same success that the SUVs did. When it comes to luxury SUV/CUVs and luxury sedans, it's a different ballgame. I'm sure the new TLX will sell well enough, but will it be enough to make up for the lose of the TSX/TL? Will it stand up well to the competition which is so much better than when the 3rd gen. TL hit the streets?

The biggest problem I see with the TLX is that the smaller tires, blander wheels, and minor changes to the front and rear fascia were enough to make it lose much of the concepts luxury/sporty detail. Despite the TLX's advanced trannies, PAWS and other tech goodies, will Acura be able to get consumers to see it as a significantly better step up from an (already stellar) Accord? I suspect they could do this through effective marketing, but Acura's marketing, like everything else lately has been, well...

Speaking of the Accord, I have a feeling Honda will expand the popular Sport model for the MMC like Toyota is doing with the Camry (X)SE. (Rather stupid sounding, ain't it?) I can see customers now, "Do I really want to spend the $32k for the base TLX when I can get a handsome Accord Sport-L (with all the bells and whistles of an EX-L and, perhaps, a sportier tuned suspension) for $29k?" Hmmm

Back to the state of Acura: Sugarcoat it all you want guys, but it is indeed "doom and gloom" over at Acura, or at least it should be. BTW, it's also nothing to brag about that a luxury brand has to be "carried" by its mass market parent.








What a pointless comment. The original post didn't give an all rosy portrait of the situation -- it offered a balanced one with facts to support the poster point. Nobody on this thread attempted to sugarcoat anything so before you jump out of your way to post yet another of those comments we read a million of times already, at least take the time to read the posts.



If my point was pointless, then this entire thread should be deemed pointless. If AHM's goal is for Accord, Civic, CR-V and MDX to carry the brand, in particular Acura, then this should already be known fact, so why the need to point it out? Unless of course there is a real problem and folks are INDEED trying to sugar-coat it.

I was simply saying it's NOT business as usual when the MDX or Honda's core models (Accord, Civic, CR-V) have to carry Acura on it's back for another year or longer. If you have a problem with my reasoning you can just go suck it!!!

BTW, I read every single post, but thanks for your prompt attention.

BallerMDX
Profile for BallerMDX
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 15:35
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dysonlu wrote:
Oh and nobody on this thread christened the TLX as Acura's savior either.


If you noticed, I said "BEFORE" you christen the TLX as Acura's savior... I said that because I'm sure someone would have countered that things will turn around once the TLX arrives, as other's have done on other threads.

And you claim I'm the one who can't read. Why don't you try doing it for a change.

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 19:24
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iutodd wrote:
The strength of Honda's core is carrying the brand. The Civic, Accord, CRV and MDX are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

And for those who think Honda is panicking this was the plan for 2014. All Honda had on the board for this year was the Fit. All Acura had was the TLX. They trusted their core products to carry them. The delays aren't good but the brand will get through the year in OK shape.


I seriously doubt AHM had "planned" on a massive delay in the Fit introduction, and another massive delay in the TLX.

For the Honda division, the Fit delay is not a huge deal, because Fit is not a core Honda product. Acura is a different story. They basically have no sedans until the TLX arrives. With almost no TSX or TL inventory, an MIA RLX, and the ILX pretty much a sad joke at this point, Acura is maybe half a brand right now.


BallerMDX wrote:
If my point was pointless, then this entire thread should be deemed pointless. If AHM's goal is for Accord, Civic, CR-V and MDX to carry the brand, in particular Acura, then this should already be known fact, so why the need to point it out? Unless of course there is a real problem and folks are INDEED trying to sugar-coat it.

I was simply saying it's NOT business as usual when the MDX or Honda's core models (Accord, Civic, CR-V) have to carry Acura on it's back for another year or longer. If you have a problem with my reasoning you can just go suck it!!!

BTW, I read every single post, but thanks for your prompt attention.


BallerMDX is 100% on the money.

AHM has fucked up yet again, and no amount of vapid comments or empty cheerleading can change the basic situation on the ground: Acura is sputtering.

The TLX better be the god damned reincarnation of the Legend, because the competition is merciless compared to 10 years ago. The new powertrains, P-AWS, and improved SH-AWD offer a lot of hope, but the proof will be in the test drives and then the sales numbers.

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-03-2014 21:36
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I don't understand the comments about a business not expecting it's core products to carry the brand and be the, umm, core products upon which it's entire business is based.

I also don't fully understand the comments about the competition being better now than it was 10 years ago. From '04 to '07: the B7 A4 debuted, the E90 3 series debuted, the CTS was around (and hit second generation I think), the G35 debuted, the IS hit it's second generation. Are the cars better today based upon numbers and features? Probably. But I think a lot of people like the E90 better than the F30. I think the G35 was a VERY good car when it debuted. Competition is ALWAYS fierce. Are more and more car companies trying to move "upscale" and add "upscale" features? Are the big horses of the luxury world moving down to the $30K market? Were the Koreans not nearly this prevalent ten years ago? Yes to all of those things. But the luxury market is outgrowing everything else. People seem to want luxury brands and not mainstream brands going luxury. (Ford is down this year - how is the Titanium/Platinum trim level helping them? Isn't the most popular Accord trim the Sport?) Is that true of everyone? No it probably isn't. But nothing is like that. I've said this before but, if anything, the increased competition at the $30-35K level has made Acura have to work harder and make better products. The market has clearly rejected the ILX - Acura has to do better. I think the TLX is better. Looking at the different videos and information about the engineering, design considerations and execution it isn't anything like the ILX.

My point, again, was that July will be bad just like June but there are 10 other months in the year and the MDX and RDX are softening the blow.

mad_ox1
Profile for mad_ox1
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2014 13:18
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iutodd wrote:
I don't understand the comments about a business not expecting it's core products to carry the brand and be the, umm, core products upon which it's entire business is based.


I think the larger issue is the fact that none of Acura's cars can be considered "core" products. The fact that this is not the case is devastating for the health of the brand. Really they need the top 2 selling models to be cars.

I shouldn't have to say this, but with Acura who can be sure: Please sell more cars, not fewer SUVs.

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-04-2014 16:47
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mad_ox1 wrote:
iutodd wrote:
I don't understand the comments about a business not expecting it's core products to carry the brand and be the, umm, core products upon which it's entire business is based.


I think the larger issue is the fact that none of Acura's cars can be considered "core" products. The fact that this is not the case is devastating for the health of the brand. Really they need the top 2 selling models to be cars.

I shouldn't have to say this, but with Acura who can be sure: Please sell more cars, not fewer SUVs.



Why does a company need their top two selling models to be cars? SUVs are really popular and growing and Acura makes two really good ones. Isn't the Cayenne Porsche's best selling model? The SRX is Cadillac's best seller. The Q5 is Audi's best seller. The RX is Lexus' best seller. (All of those in the states BTW.)

Does Acura want the TLX to sell really well and help grow the company? Obviously they do and they have priced it very aggressively. And obviously Acura wants it's cars to hold up their side of the business - they have said as much: "Make sedans strong" is their goal.

mad_ox1
Profile for mad_ox1
Re: Crazy [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-07-2014 08:52
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iutodd wrote:
mad_ox1 wrote:
iutodd wrote:
I don't understand the comments about a business not expecting it's core products to carry the brand and be the, umm, core products upon which it's entire business is based.


I think the larger issue is the fact that none of Acura's cars can be considered "core" products. The fact that this is not the case is devastating for the health of the brand. Really they need the top 2 selling models to be cars.

I shouldn't have to say this, but with Acura who can be sure: Please sell more cars, not fewer SUVs.



Why does a company need their top two selling models to be cars? SUVs are really popular and growing and Acura makes two really good ones. Isn't the Cayenne Porsche's best selling model? The SRX is Cadillac's best seller. The Q5 is Audi's best seller. The RX is Lexus' best seller. (All of those in the states BTW.)

Does Acura want the TLX to sell really well and help grow the company? Obviously they do and they have priced it very aggressively. And obviously Acura wants it's cars to hold up their side of the business - they have said as much: "Make sedans strong" is their goal.




I would be fine if Honda sold more trucks than cars, although that does not seem likely to be the case. Honda (these days) seems to be simply about people moving. That is not (should not) be what Acura is all about. Acura is supposed to be the luxury performance brand. Not much to say about driving performance in a big slow truck.


 
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