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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)

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Tasker
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Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-07-2014 17:02
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RolledaNsx wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Tasker wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Going thru all the info from people who say they know from all the Honda fan forums and twitter.

Pilot was delayed because changes during it's development(powertrain and green lighting the RL).

Looks like it will have a new lighter 4WD.

DI J35 270-280hp and maybe hybrid option.

New trans but not the HP9.

Ridgeline will be unibody still with most likely subframes to make it stronger and tow more.

About a foot longer than the 1st RL,so 6.5-8ft bed.

Load 1000lbs and tow 7500lbs.

DI J35 280-300hp and looks like with a new hybrid system
330-350hp total.

Lighter 4WD.






Why would the load capacity drop to 1000lbs.? Currently it is 1500lbs.



So the Ridgeline is a 3/4 ton truck?

Don't even think it is a 1/2 ton truck so that would be their goal for the 2nd gen if they can do it with a full independent suspension.



Total max load 1800-2000 lbs.
Now 1500 lbs
So 1000lbs bed payload and 800+lbs people and their stuff




Ok, I see what your saying. As far as weather it is a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck. I think the days are long gone when those weights referred to the actual load capacity of the truck. I still hear people refer to the F150 as a half ton even though it has a payload capacity of up to 3000lbs. depending on configuration.

I hope your right about the towing capacity as long as it still meets the SAE Trailering standards. Seems the big 3 have been claiming for years that 'next year' they will use the SAE standard to rate their trucks. I think they are all waiting for someone else to go first.

Tasker
Profile for Tasker
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-07-2014 17:25
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Tasker wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Tasker wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Going thru all the info from people who say they know from all the Honda fan forums and twitter.

Pilot was delayed because changes during it's development(powertrain and green lighting the RL).

Looks like it will have a new lighter 4WD.

DI J35 270-280hp and maybe hybrid option.

New trans but not the HP9.

Ridgeline will be unibody still with most likely subframes to make it stronger and tow more.

About a foot longer than the 1st RL,so 6.5-8ft bed.

Load 1000lbs and tow 7500lbs.

DI J35 280-300hp and looks like with a new hybrid system
330-350hp total.

Lighter 4WD.






Why would the load capacity drop to 1000lbs.? Currently it is 1500lbs.



So the Ridgeline is a 3/4 ton truck?

Don't even think it is a 1/2 ton truck so that would be their goal for the 2nd gen if they can do it with a full independent suspension.



Total max load 1800-2000 lbs.
Now 1500 lbs
So 1000lbs bed payload and 800+lbs people and their stuff




Ok, I see what your saying. As far as weather it is a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck. I think the days are long gone when those weights referred to the actual load capacity of the truck. I still hear people refer to the F150 as a half ton even though it has a payload capacity of up to 3000lbs. depending on configuration.

I hope your right about the towing capacity as long as it still meets the SAE Trailering standards. Seems the big 3 have been claiming for years that 'next year' they will use the SAE standard to rate their trucks. I think they are all waiting for someone else to go first.



Whether not weather. Is there an edit button?

NorCalSales
Profile for NorCalSales
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 18:13
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I pray Honda realizes that Import trucks numbers will only be Frontiers and Tacos and not Titans and Tundras. They could never in a million years conquest enough buyers to sell anything but light duty trucks in the US market in any sort of volume.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 19:31
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NorCalSales wrote:
I pray Honda realizes that Import trucks numbers will only be Frontiers and Tacos and not Titans and Tundras. They could never in a million years conquest enough buyers to sell anything but light duty trucks in the US market in any sort of volume.


So you couldn't sell a Honda dual cab truck with 2000lb payload rating and tow 7500lb?

Be able to carry two CRF450R in the bed and tow a 22ft Triton bass boat with a Honda BF250 outboard.

Get 30MPG.

And drive as smooth as an Accord to keep your better half happy!

Weekend Warriors be asking for a Honda truck for like 25 years!!!!!!!

Not that El Camino look a like with a short hard to load bed!

ledebuhr1
Profile for ledebuhr1
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 19:35
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Rolled,

Sure Honda could, but do you really think they could do all that and still be 30mpg? And not be $45k?

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 19:57
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ledebuhr1 wrote:
Rolled,

Sure Honda could, but do you really think they could do all that and still be 30mpg? And not be $45k?



2014 base Crew Cabs start at:

Ridleline 29,575
Silverado 34,000
F150 31,240 before rebate and that price will go up with the new AL 2015 Model!

And they all go up from there!

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 19:59
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Doesn't matter how good it is, Rolled, it is a waste of time in this market.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 20:15
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RolledaNsx wrote:
NorCalSales wrote:
I pray Honda realizes that Import trucks numbers will only be Frontiers and Tacos and not Titans and Tundras. They could never in a million years conquest enough buyers to sell anything but light duty trucks in the US market in any sort of volume.


So you couldn't sell a Honda dual cab truck with 2000lb payload rating and tow 7500lb?

Be able to carry two CRF450R in the bed and tow a 22ft Triton bass boat with a Honda BF250 outboard.

Get 30MPG.

And drive as smooth as an Accord to keep your better half happy!

Weekend Warriors be asking for a Honda truck for like 25 years!!!!!!!

Not that El Camino look a like with a short hard to load bed!


Rolled, I think Honda would lose BIG if they went this route. Ford, Chevy/GMC and Dodge totally own full size trucks.

Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 20:18
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DCR wrote:
Doesn't matter how good it is, Rolled, it is a waste of time in this market.
Maybe you're right, but Dodge (Ram) sort of has proven that product does matter. 15 or so years ago, Dodge was a huge loser in the small truck business. Now they are a serious player. Quality, and massive doses of testosterone did the trick for them. Honda already has the quality. They just have to be willing to admit the need to up the macho factor.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 21:39
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superchg2 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
NorCalSales wrote:
I pray Honda realizes that Import trucks numbers will only be Frontiers and Tacos and not Titans and Tundras. They could never in a million years conquest enough buyers to sell anything but light duty trucks in the US market in any sort of volume.


So you couldn't sell a Honda dual cab truck with 2000lb payload rating and tow 7500lb?

Be able to carry two CRF450R in the bed and tow a 22ft Triton bass boat with a Honda BF250 outboard.

Get 30MPG.

And drive as smooth as an Accord to keep your better half happy!

Weekend Warriors be asking for a Honda truck for like 25 years!!!!!!!

Not that El Camino look a like with a short hard to load bed!


Rolled, I think Honda would lose BIG if they went this route. Ford, Chevy/GMC and Dodge totally own full size trucks.



Is that the same BS they told Honda when they brought their first bike or car to the US Market!

HOW DID THAT WORK OUT???????????????????????????????

It will be hard in the Heartland to sell Honda trucks but on the two coasts and major cities do not eat/drive/shit Ford and Chevy.They buy the best or best value.

And everybody who buys Honda products would give a Honda truck a chance!
It would just need to perform and look good!
Just like what Dodge did with their trucks,make a great product and people will buy it!

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2014 22:11
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superchg2 wrote:
Rolled, I think Honda would lose BIG if they went this route. Ford, Chevy/GMC and Dodge totally own full size trucks.


The Toyota Tacoma, which is not a full-size truck, has payload ratings of 1360 lbs, and can tow 6500. Toyota sold like 160K Tacomas last year.

But...over 700,000 pick up trucks were sold in the first four months of the year. 580,000 of those were sold by GM, Ford or Ram. So about 30,000 non Big-3 trucks were sold each month. That's really not that big of a market I guess - but there are a lot of things happening over the next 8 months: Ford is switching to Aluminum and the Canyon and Colorado make their entrance into the market. I'm wondering what the aluminum will do to Ford's profit margins - right now Ford is offering $5200 off SuperCab/SuperCrew XLT models. Are they going to be able to drive the same volume without incentives like this? I'm assuming Ford knows the implications of what it is doing and I haven't researched it all that much but I'm doubting Ford will have as much room to operate margin wise and incentive wise. Obviously the F150 will be good but I'm wondering if that will change the calculus a bit. Not to mention just convincing people that Aluminum is for real on trucks.

Which might give some room for the Ridgeline. Let's look at the above example: $5200 off an XLT SuperCab - which lists for $32,475. So Ford will sell you that truck for $27,225. And F-150 SuperCrew lists for $36,545 - so Ford will sell it to you for $31,295.

If they can't run incentives like that and there are price increases there might be some room for a Honda Ridge line to maybe steal some sales if Honda can get the trims right and the capabilities are anywhere close to what rolled has been talking about.

Also I don't think Honda has any aspirations to rule the truck market. They just want a little piece of the pie. Last year 2,175,633 trucks were sold in the US. 2% of that market gets Honda back to what the Ridgeline used to sell at. 3% sets records for Honda.

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2014 09:44
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I should add as well that production capacity will almost certainly be tight unless something changes.

Alabama has a listed capacity of "more than" 340,000 vehicles. And they produce the Pilot, MDX, Odyssey and Ridgeline. I don't know how production schedules work at the factory level but I'm assuming that a years worth of sales has a fairly strong relationship to the number of vehicles produced.

The Odyssey and Pilot were both over 125K units sold last year. So that's 250,000+ between those two vehicles. The MDX is on a tear and might hit 65-70,000 units this year. So between those three vehicles you have ~310,000 units. Unless they expand production or move a vehicle to another factory they aren't going to be able to produce that many Ridgelines.

And if they really are coming back with multiple power trains you'd have to assume that 50-60K units would be needed just to get dealers enough trims to work with.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2014 10:34
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FYI, the profit margins on trucks are ridiculous. People keep making a big deal out of the profit margins from Audi, Porsche and Ferrari... but the reality is that the F-150 is responsible for >80% of Ford's profits. You're making a cab over a ladder frame, it doesn't cost much. Even with insane incentives, the OEMs are still actually making a lot of money off them. What's even funnier is that oftentimes the V8s are way cheaper to produce (WAY CHEAPER) compared to the relatively sophisticated V6s... and yet the OEMs charge more for them.

As for Honda needs to stay in the niche. Nothing wrong with a profitable niche and a loyal following with reasonable sales levels. Just don't make it overly complex and chase after the big 3.

longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2014 10:53
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Like CarFreak states, if Honda keeps its sales goals in check, and use the RL to soak up whatever capacity it has left from making Ody, MDXes and Pilots.

I expect the demand will be a little higher than the RL supply which will mean Honda could charge sticker for all of them. A profitable niche indeed.

Keeping in mind the new GM Canyon and Colorado will not be push overs, Toyota Taco and Nissan Frontier and Ram new midsize will debut in the two years, and Ford's new fullsize 150 which is rumored to have midsize fuel economy.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2014 11:07
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Their looking at about selling 60,000 a year,so with the Pilot 120,000-150,000 a year.

Their going niche still by going hybrid for mpg but will also help with the down low torque(make a 3.5L V6 feel like a 6.0L V8).

Also heard on the engine front a diesel is being looked at!

longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: 2016 Pilot(is Honda going to surprise us!?!?!)    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2014 11:27
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If a diesel goes in the RL, then a diesel goes into a Pilot.

 
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