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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past

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longhorn
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Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-07-2013 13:21
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9th gen Accord vs 5th gen, a very entertaining read. After seeing the two Accords in the article is there any question where the Honda designers got their inspiration from ?

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/honda-accord-vs-honda-accord-comparo-1441172353

AcCoRdV6ExNaVi
Profile for AcCoRdV6ExNaVi
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-07-2013 15:13
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Good read! This read couldn't have come in a better time. I am in the market for a used car and just checked out my friend's very nicely kept 1995 Accord V6 with only 105k and debating if I should get it, but after reading this article, I am getting it for sure. The 5th gen Accord has always been a honest Accord. Fun to drive, user friendly interior and low cost of ownership. Honda was unstoppable in the 90s and I am glad my friend is selling his Accord.

While the 5th gen Accord chassis wasn't designed to accommodate a V6, engineers went great length in revising the chassis and they were able to retain the sporty driving dynamics from the 4 cylinder. It does feel a little bit more front heavy but it's not noticeable unless you drive it like you stole it, and the extra torque off the line from the V6 is enough to compensate the heavier weight, as the 4 cylinder is pretty lifeless until VTEC (when equipped) kicks in.

The C27A engine is not only both smoother and quieter than the in-line 4 (great for highway driving as most of my commute is highway driving), it is also more powerful. Yes, it only has 170hp, but it seems underrated as it feels just as powerful as the J30A1 (6th gen). It is a bit weak in the lower rev range but wakes up quickly and pulls hard to redline. The 4AT hinders what the C27A can really do. A 5MT w/ LSD or 5AT would have been a better fit but at the time the 4AT was enough to satisfy most consumers. Overall, it drives very much like my 2004 Accord V6.

A77X
Profile for A77X
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-07-2013 15:30
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Nice article but I think the 6 gen was more of an inspiration for the 9 gen than the gen 5 was. His observations re fuel economy don't surprise me either. My old 87 Camry around town got just as good mileage as my TSX does - in fact slightly better. There's only so much the BTUs in a gallon of gas can do. Highway though the TSX destroys it. Weight is less of an issue on the highway, where gearing and aerodynamics are more crucial.
Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-07-2013 16:15
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A77X wrote:
Nice article but I think the 6 gen was more of an inspiration for the 9 gen than the gen 5 was. . . .

I agree. I owned two 94s, and presently still own a 6gen 99. The proportions, stance, size, are more in keeping with the 6gen. Looking at them side by side, the common DNA is most obvious.

FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-07-2013 23:47
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From the article spec sheet-

Engine name : (Old) "Engine" (New) "Earth Dreams"


Lol.

Come on, it says "VTEC" right on the engine in really big words. It's should be "VTEC".

Back to the topic, I too think the new Accord is inspired by the 6th gen. I finally had a chance to see one in person and it looked really nice. Just too bad they didn't bring the hybrid over, and too bad in our region it was still powered by the old tech (5 AT & 8th gen engine).

They could've sold 2 hybrid right there from just two person I know, they are just waiting with cash in hand... too bad one went to Mazda 6, and the other, well just still waiting but can jump to the Mazda6 anytime (for some reason, they both think it is worth the non-hybrid Mazda 6 over the non-hybrid Accords..)

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-08-2013 06:48
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One comment about the handling feel of all of these Accords mentioned. A relative bought a new '94 EX 5mt sedan and I drove it several times over the four years she owned it. Of all of the Accords I've driven that '94 was the least fun and sporty. It felt loose on the highway with more body roll in curves than I expected. It felt more like you sat on the driver's seat and not in it. And it had maybe the worst manual shift feel of any I've experienced in a Honda car. Not my cup of tea. I think those '94 and '95 EX sedans are the most stylish Accords ever offered (I've never cared for the updates for '96 and '97) but our 6th, 7th and 8th gen sedans have been much better driver's cars on Interstate and curving 2-lane roads, even with how large the 8th gen sedan feels.
ding
Profile for ding
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-08-2013 07:30
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Grace141 wrote:
One comment about the handling feel of all of these Accords mentioned. A relative bought a new '94 EX 5mt sedan and I drove it several times over the four years she owned it. Of all of the Accords I've driven that '94 was the least fun and sporty. It felt loose on the highway with more body roll in curves than I expected. It felt more like you sat on the driver's seat and not in it. And it had maybe the worst manual shift feel of any I've experienced in a Honda car. Not my cup of tea. I think those '94 and '95 EX sedans are the most stylish Accords ever offered (I've never cared for the updates for '96 and '97) but our 6th, 7th and 8th gen sedans have been much better driver's cars on Interstate and curving 2-lane roads, even with how large the 8th gen sedan feels.


I had a 94 DX manual. It replaced my 90 DX auto. To this day I think Gen 4 was Hondas best Accord. My 94 seemed to suffer from cost cutting. The windows would crack and snap and that twist temp control was junk. As far as styling and safety upgrades gen 5 was superior. To me gen 9 looks like a gen 8 that went on a diet and firmed up. Also, as far as drive dynamics and quality it is closer to Acura than ever

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-08-2013 09:04
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ding wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
One comment about the handling feel of all of these Accords mentioned. A relative bought a new '94 EX 5mt sedan and I drove it several times over the four years she owned it. Of all of the Accords I've driven that '94 was the least fun and sporty. It felt loose on the highway with more body roll in curves than I expected. It felt more like you sat on the driver's seat and not in it. And it had maybe the worst manual shift feel of any I've experienced in a Honda car. Not my cup of tea. I think those '94 and '95 EX sedans are the most stylish Accords ever offered (I've never cared for the updates for '96 and '97) but our 6th, 7th and 8th gen sedans have been much better driver's cars on Interstate and curving 2-lane roads, even with how large the 8th gen sedan feels.


I had a 94 DX manual. It replaced my 90 DX auto. To this day I think Gen 4 was Hondas best Accord. My 94 seemed to suffer from cost cutting. The windows would crack and snap and that twist temp control was junk. As far as styling and safety upgrades gen 5 was superior. To me gen 9 looks like a gen 8 that went on a diet and firmed up. Also, as far as drive dynamics and quality it is closer to Acura than ever


Yes, the HVAC temperature control in my in-law's '94 either didn't go warm enough or cool enough. I found the cable itself had a manufacturing defect in that the cable sheathing was cut too short and ended in the middle of the clamp at the valve. While tightening the clamp down to hold the cable in place, the cable sheathing would either slide back and out from under the clamp or slide forward causing the cable to bind. Easy fix if A.) Honda had offered a replacement cable with the sheathing left long to be cut to length, which they didn't, and B.) a person could get the old cable out of the dash and the new one installed, or C.) if I would have made the effort to modify the clamp, but it wasn't my car. Whenever she complained about the temperature in her car I simply adjusted the cable appropriately. Which is what the Honda dealer techs did, I suspect. The HVAC temp control in my Integra was a work of art compared to that of the Accord.

I'd agree the 4th gen has been the Accord most comparable to its contemporary sedans costing twice as much. The sedan was very much an inexpensive version of a 5-series at the time. There were a few design hiccups but overall it was bulletproof. I really don't think anyone will drive a new 5-series vs. the 9th gen accord and say they are similar.

longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-08-2013 09:35
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A77X wrote:
Nice article but I think the 6 gen was more of an inspiration for the 9 gen than the gen 5 was. His observations re fuel economy don't surprise me either. My old 87 Camry around town got just as good mileage as my TSX does - in fact slightly better. There's only so much the BTUs in a gallon of gas can do. Highway though the TSX destroys it. Weight is less of an issue on the highway, where gearing and aerodynamics are more crucial.


The 6th gen was conservative styled (many would say thats why it took the best seller crown that one year) and the only modern design feature of the car was the headlights with the eyelid on the bottom similar to what is used on the 9th gen.

When I look at the 5th gen (the first Accord I owned), and the 9th gen. I see the same contemporary styling of the 5th gen perfected in the 9th. Anyway, its all opinion.

Whats not up to opinion is the the refinement of the 9th over the 5th. At the time the 5th gen was so far ahead of its competitors in driving dynamics and looks. Yet, it was LOUD, almost fatiquing. On the flip side that car saved my life. I rolled four times and came to a stop against a tree. The DPS officer told me he does nto know how I survived with minor injuries. I still have photos of the wreckage somewhere. The 5th gen doesn't get much mention,but it was a great car.

VTEC_Inside
Profile for VTEC_Inside
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-08-2013 11:31
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AcCoRdV6ExNaVi wrote:
...
While the 5th gen Accord chassis wasn't designed to accommodate a V6, engineers went great length in revising the chassis and they were able to retain the sporty driving dynamics from the 4 cylinder. It does feel a little bit more front heavy but it's not noticeable unless you drive it like you stole it, and the extra torque off the line from the V6 is enough to compensate the heavier weight, as the 4 cylinder is pretty lifeless until VTEC (when equipped) kicks in.

The C27A engine is not only both smoother and quieter than the in-line 4 (great for highway driving as most of my commute is highway driving), it is also more powerful. Yes, it only has 170hp, but it seems underrated as it feels just as powerful as the J30A1 (6th gen). It is a bit weak in the lower rev range but wakes up quickly and pulls hard to redline. The 4AT hinders what the C27A can really do. A 5MT w/ LSD or 5AT would have been a better fit but at the time the 4AT was enough to satisfy most consumers. Overall, it drives very much like my 2004 Accord V6.



Going to have to politely disagree with some of that.

We had a '94 4AT, '96 V6, '98 V6, and a '02 V6 to mention a few.

The '96 V6 was a front heavy tank. Driving it even a little aggressively you'd feel the weight as the steering feel went to $hit. I never found it particularly torquey feeling off the line either. I also had a chance to drive a '97 5MT 4cyl, and that car was much more entertaining, and faster to 60mph as you may not be aware.

The C27 was definitely smoother than F22, but its sound was just ok IMO. The '98 (J30) was a freakin' gem in comparison, smoother, stronger, and sounded better.

Agreed that the 4AT was a bit of a noose on the C27

Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-08-2013 12:36
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VTEC_Inside wrote:


Going to have to politely disagree with some of that.

We had a '94 4AT, '96 V6, '98 V6, and a '02 V6 to mention a few.

The '96 V6 was a front heavy tank. Driving it even a little aggressively you'd feel the weight as the steering feel went to $hit. I never found it particularly torquey feeling off the line either.


What you noticed about that 96 Accord V6 is because it was a quick and dirty kludge. Camry had a V6 so the US Honda marketing people demanded one to compete. (I'm sure the Honda engineers were never happy about building it.)

Honda dusted off the V6 from the early Acura Legends for duty in the Accord. It was a relatively heavy engine, 90 deg design that required heavy balance shaft lobes to smooth out the natural vibrations (90 deg is a poor choice for a V6). To fit the wide engine in the Accord, the front of the body had to be lengthened about 3 inches, so the hood and fenders were longer on the V6 models only. Of course, the weight over the front wheels went up considerably.

By the time of the 1998 6th gen Accord, the lighter narrower 60 deg V6 was ready.




owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Accord today vs Accord of the past    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-08-2013 23:47
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We have owned pretty much every generation of Accord built since 1988, and sometimes several of one generation.

The new car reminds me most of the 4th gen. Both in proportion, relatively wide and low look (versus its contemporaries) with very horizontal styling cues.

It reminds me most of the 4th gen in the way it drive too. It seems more refined than its price point, which the 5th gen Accord also possessed, but to a lesser degree than the 4th. Truth be told though, the 4th and 5th gens were so mechanically similar, the drive was also very similar (although the 5th gen was the first step toward "softer" Accords).


 
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