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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Going Up or Down or out?

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MarkR
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Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 07:46
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I've written a few times before some interesting car industry comments/interviews from our national business paper. What makes it so interesting is that it's not about the cars but about the car manufacturing economy and they seem to dig up some good stuff. They were very early already 1,5year ago about Honda going for ZF boxes.

Anyway, this week there was an article and interviews on the Frankfurt autoshow.

They had interviewed quite many executives (from the industry) and most had the same opinion, you need to make your cars more expensive (go for upper/luxury segment) or then go really low, there is no future in the mid-market from the 90s.

They had some examples of Renault, Ford, Citroen, Mazda, Nissan and so on, they used Audi as an example of how it took them 20years to reach the status level they are on today.

One interviewee said that they need to figure out how to be able to charge about 50% more for their current products.

On the opposite end there was a common opinion that you can also be successful by going really econo, but in that case very much so, not Polo/Fit/Clio/, but still lower. They predicted that Dacia and Skoda will succeed because they have a new program for really really cheap cars on the horizon.

Well, of course no mentioning of Honda but the qeustion is, wonder what our beloved Honda will do, go upmarket by 50% or downmarket by 50%, or are they a dinosaur the dying mid-market?

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 08:13
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Here's the news for August

"American Honda Posts Record August Sales Up 26.7 Percent As Year To Date Sales Top 1 Million Vehicles"



MarkR
Profile for MarkR
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 08:33
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superchg2 wrote:
Here's the news for August

"American Honda Posts Record August Sales Up 26.7 Percent As Year To Date Sales Top 1 Million Vehicles"





I know, I was thinking that the US is very much different when I wrote the post. Maybe it's because cars are so much cheaper in the US?

To illustrate what I mean is, many people cannot afford a car in my country, or rather, if they cannot buy a almost new Audi A3 they rather try to be without a car, they won't buy a few year old Civic. Also, maybe in countries not as large as the US cars are for those who think it's 'pleasant and conveniet' but they don't need the car because of good public transportation.

I have people like that on my job, they have never owned a car, but when they progress to a certain level they get an A3 or whatever, but not a Honda or Mazda, they want premium if they get a car.

But do agree superchg2, this doesn't hold true for the US.


Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 08:51
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MarkR wrote:
I've written a few times before some interesting car industry comments/interviews from our national business paper. What makes it so interesting is that it's not about the cars but about the car manufacturing economy and they seem to dig up some good stuff. They were very early already 1,5year ago about Honda going for ZF boxes.

Anyway, this week there was an article and interviews on the Frankfurt autoshow.

They had interviewed quite many executives (from the industry) and most had the same opinion, you need to make your cars more expensive (go for upper/luxury segment) or then go really low, there is no future in the mid-market from the 90s.

They had some examples of Renault, Ford, Citroen, Mazda, Nissan and so on, they used Audi as an example of how it took them 20years to reach the status level they are on today.

One interviewee said that they need to figure out how to be able to charge about 50% more for their current products.

On the opposite end there was a common opinion that you can also be successful by going really econo, but in that case very much so, not Polo/Fit/Clio/, but still lower. They predicted that Dacia and Skoda will succeed because they have a new program for really really cheap cars on the horizon.

Well, of course no mentioning of Honda but the qeustion is, wonder what our beloved Honda will do, go upmarket by 50% or downmarket by 50%, or are they a dinosaur the dying mid-market?



The trend was first predicted in Premium Power by Rosengarten & Stuermer about a decade ago & I've been consistently banging on about it since.

I've repeated how Honda's attempts to go mass-market might have worked in the US (in spite or because of Acura) but have been totally the wrong course for the EU and other areas. R&S ranked Honda as one brand that were ideally placed to go premium.

Funny how it's taken so much management so long to wake up to the idea and Honda still apparently hasn't.

MarkR
Profile for MarkR
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 09:18
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superchg2 wrote:
Here's the news for August

"American Honda Posts Record August Sales Up 26.7 Percent As Year To Date Sales Top 1 Million Vehicles"





btw, these news that Honda is selling like hot cakes, is it marketing or do they eat into sales of other manufacturers? Most products sell more nowadays than before, for more money but question what about share of wallet? Is BMW/VW going down the drain sales wise and Honda are eating from thei lunch?

The company I work for, we usually refer to how much more we sell now than 2-3-4 years ago, even if we are losing to competitors. The competitors are actually selling more also, but yes, we have record sales every year (too bad others have even bigger records :) )

Anyway, great that Honda is doing great in the US even if it's with products we car enthusiats cannot honestly say are nice products.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 09:50
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MarkR wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Here's the news for August

"American Honda Posts Record August Sales Up 26.7 Percent As Year To Date Sales Top 1 Million Vehicles"





btw, these news that Honda is selling like hot cakes, is it marketing or do they eat into sales of other manufacturers? Most products sell more nowadays than before, for more money but question what about share of wallet? Is BMW/VW going down the drain sales wise and Honda are eating from thei lunch?

The company I work for, we usually refer to how much more we sell now than 2-3-4 years ago, even if we are losing to competitors. The competitors are actually selling more also, but yes, we have record sales every year (too bad others have even bigger records :) )

Anyway, great that Honda is doing great in the US even if it's with products we car enthusiats cannot honestly say are nice products.


At his point, if I purchased a new Honda to replace my Si, I would go with an Accord Sport. It would be nice if they offered it with the V-6 and a few more options. Since my '06 only has 55K miles, I will probably keep it a bit longer.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 11:21
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Why do you think Honda is going Fit everywhere and is trying to do it in America by building a factory in Mexico.

The only problem with the Fit(Euro Civic/not built on a real Civic Platform) in Europe is that Honda priced it in the Luxury Market(bad marketing,do they think Europeans are stupid) instead of the Eco Market.

Also Honda doesn't understand the Luxury Market because it goes against their Core Company Values.

jshaw
Profile for jshaw
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-22-2013 12:50
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I think only the Germans, as a culture, understand the true Luxury market. The Japanese and Americans can do well with their half-hearted Mainstream+/Mainstream++ offerings in the US, but everywhere else, they are nearly eaten alive. The closest the Japanese have to arrogance is Lexus, and it is still too limited by, "we gotta have self restraint." Cadillac is doing a fine job of poorly copying the lower two Germans, but not good enough (though it seems they are getting better as time passes).
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-23-2013 20:14
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Nick GravesX wrote:
MarkR wrote:
I've written a few times before some interesting car industry comments/interviews from our national business paper. What makes it so interesting is that it's not about the cars but about the car manufacturing economy and they seem to dig up some good stuff. They were very early already 1,5year ago about Honda going for ZF boxes.

Anyway, this week there was an article and interviews on the Frankfurt autoshow.

They had interviewed quite many executives (from the industry) and most had the same opinion, you need to make your cars more expensive (go for upper/luxury segment) or then go really low, there is no future in the mid-market from the 90s.

They had some examples of Renault, Ford, Citroen, Mazda, Nissan and so on, they used Audi as an example of how it took them 20years to reach the status level they are on today.

One interviewee said that they need to figure out how to be able to charge about 50% more for their current products.

On the opposite end there was a common opinion that you can also be successful by going really econo, but in that case very much so, not Polo/Fit/Clio/, but still lower. They predicted that Dacia and Skoda will succeed because they have a new program for really really cheap cars on the horizon.

Well, of course no mentioning of Honda but the qeustion is, wonder what our beloved Honda will do, go upmarket by 50% or downmarket by 50%, or are they a dinosaur the dying mid-market?



The trend was first predicted in Premium Power by Rosengarten & Stuermer about a decade ago & I've been consistently banging on about it since.

I've repeated how Honda's attempts to go mass-market might have worked in the US (in spite or because of Acura) but have been totally the wrong course for the EU and other areas. R&S ranked Honda as one brand that were ideally placed to go premium.

Funny how it's taken so much management so long to wake up to the idea and Honda still apparently hasn't.




So Europe is bifurcating?

Econo for the Greeks and Italians, Big Luxo for the Germans and the rest can eat cake?

BTW- In the US, Our Great Nobel Peace Price Winner would like to see that too, I think. Luxo for Him and His Buddies and algae fueled econos for the rest of us.

Which, perhaps is what the Belgians want for the Euros?

Sort of destroys the sense of Middle Class build during the last century. Maybe there needs to be a war, huh?

BTW, I always thought the British were the best at Luxury... Rolls Royce was the epitome of understated class snobbishness ("If you have to ask how much they cost", "sufficient power", etc....). And Jaguar always had a way with design (ever laid your eyes on a classic Jag inline 6?)...

But now Rolls is owned by the Jerries and Jaguar is part of Tata, the old colony coming to the rescue lest Fritz fully take over, I guess.


Yowza!

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Going Up or Down or out?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2013 05:55
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Very true, all of dat!

Indeed, whilst all the wealth continues to trickle upward to the super-elite, their upper-middle class lackeys can lease their way into debt-enslaved lookalike wealth. So sales of status symbols continue to rise.

The nation of Thatcher-shopkeepers is being replaced by out of town malls (different continent; same logos), filled with minimum-wage drones, for whom joining the expanding gov't-dependent underclasses is only a logical step away. So now leasing a new Kia is as good as it gets. Sound at all familiar?

And indeed; as some states are loaded whilst others are piss-poor, you can see that in different countries/regions/towns and that gap will probably widen.

I'd rather be a German than in Spain, as El Condor Pasa doesn't go.

Indeed; now ze German premium brands have chased the bling-bling trashy end of the upper-mid market into commonality, they needed a bit of understated class for the super-elite to move up to & be driven around in to the next gov't hand-out meeting, hopefully discreetly enough to avoid being shot at by the recently-dispossessed shopkeepers and retirees.

Tata's move was a shrewd one. JLR is now doing wonders for the group, since the indian bit is suffering from the downturn.

As clever as Marcchione reversing into a battered Chrysler, in order to get a payout for his even more dilapidated FIAT so he could patch it up for a few more years.





 
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