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  TOV News > All-New 2014 Acura MDX Debuts at the New York International Auto Show > > Re: No Krell

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A77
Profile for A77
No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 15:18
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So it seems Krell will be reserved for the RLX. So wont be in TLX either. Shame.
Bevoguy
Profile for Bevoguy
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 16:55
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The shame is that the new ELS, IMO sounds as good if not better. More powerful and the number of times I have heard the Krell ( I work at a dealer) I was not just blown away versus the new ELS.......Shame you cannot get a car Bose that really sounds like a Bose and you cannot get a Krell ( car) that sounds like a real Krell
The Legend
Profile for The Legend
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:08
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Bevoguy wrote:
The shame is that the new ELS, IMO sounds as good if not better. More powerful and the number of times I have heard the Krell ( I work at a dealer) I was not just blown away versus the new ELS.......Shame you cannot get a car Bose that really sounds like a Bose and you cannot get a Krell ( car) that sounds like a real Krell


Krell in RLX may need break-in period before they start to sound as advertised.

break-in-period is a standard practice among audophiles and videophiles (plasma TVs).

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:29
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A77 wrote:
So it seems Krell will be reserved for the RLX. So wont be in TLX either. Shame.

Not really. The ELS system is already among the best out there, one area where Acura really is tier 1.

Bevoguy
Profile for Bevoguy
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:34
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Actually the new RLX/MDX ELS is 580 watts.....Thanks for the info on break in period....that makes sense with Zylon speakers
The Legend
Profile for The Legend
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:46
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Bevoguy wrote:
Actually the new RLX/MDX ELS is 580 watts.....Thanks for the info on break in period....that makes sense with Zylon speakers


look for showroom-ready RLX's with Krell where Acura salespeople can let you fiddle with the gadgets inside. Ask them if the krell audio system inside was played for hours. From my experience audio/speaker system that hasn't yet to be break-in kinda sounds thin (bass and mids) and bright(harsh trebble)....

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 19:33
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Bevoguy wrote:
Actually the new RLX/MDX ELS is 580 watts.....Thanks for the info on break in period....that makes sense with Zylon speakers

Yes, but keep in mind that wattage (especially without a THD spec) is not the only part of the story. Like the relationship of HP to torque, there is wattage and current. True high end aficionados understand that high current is just as (if not more) important than wattage. IMO, the RLX ELS Studio system is pretty darn good, but the Krell pretty easily outshines it in all respects.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-31-2013 15:40
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Colin wrote:
Bevoguy wrote:
Actually the new RLX/MDX ELS is 580 watts.....Thanks for the info on break in period....that makes sense with Zylon speakers

Yes, but keep in mind that wattage (espe1cially without a THD spec) is not the only part of the story. Like the relationship of HP to torque, there is wattage and current. True high end aficionados understand that high current is just as (if not more) important than wattage. IMO, the RLX ELS Studio system is pretty darn good, but the Krell pretty easily outshines it in all respects.



It's a lot more complex than that.

"Power" and "Current" amplifier ratings are pretty much like EPA numbers... they are a "rating' and any manufacturer is free to overstate or understate their numbers within constraints:

Power Y watts RMS at Z ohm impedance from 20Hz to 20Khz with less than X% distortion.

What is more important is the dynamic headroom... that is the dBs from the stated RMS rating to clipping - the point where the output devices have reached Vcc (power supply rail) and can go no further (assuming no current limitation... more on which anon).

Some circuit topologies, like vacuum tubes, FETs and most everything NAD does, have an inherently higher dynamic headroom rating... often 3db or more... meaning double the RMS power. Other manufacturers publish high dynamic headrooms because they are very conservative in their RMS power ratings.

So, an amplifier with a high dynamic rating will always sound more "powerful" than a like RMS rated amp with a lower dynamic rating.

It is true that Krell has high power and current ratings, but this is normally done by heroic power supplies that can really deliver the goods into very low impedances:

Normally, a big power supply allows current to flow into low impedances before the Vcc voltage rail has been reached. This allows the amplifying devices to take care of the voltage gain without having to worry about current.

Otherwise, what will happen is that the power supply runs of current below the maximum voltage gain allowed by the Vcc voltage rail and the end result is a sonic mess.

Oh yeah, impedance, yet another critical part of the equation since most amplifiers are in essence voltage amplifiers and output current is based on output voltage, load frequency and impedance.. because the impedance of speakers/crossover networks is dependent on the frequency...

The only current amplifiers I'm aware of come from First Watt

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/prod_f2_man.pdf

They are affected only by load resistance not load frequency... but they tend to "react" strangely to complex loads with high capacitance and reactance.

And even then, being Class A, they are low powered and even then Nelson Pass mentions that only very specific speakers need apply (mostly high efficiency stuff like a Lowther).

Oh, btw, Krell is very good indeed, but nowhere the best. Sorry.









Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-31-2013 15:59
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Screw all that, where is the MDX's subwoofer at??


xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-31-2013 16:34
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Hondatalover wrote:
Screw all that, where is the MDX's subwoofer at??



In da back.

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-31-2013 16:39
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xBeastx wrote:
Hondatalover wrote:
Screw all that, where is the MDX's subwoofer at??



In da back.


Where at?


Gary757
Profile for Gary757
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-31-2013 21:35
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Hondatalover wrote:
xBeastx wrote:
Hondatalover wrote:
Screw all that, where is the MDX's subwoofer at??



In da back.


Where at?



From the reveal in NYC:



Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-31-2013 22:09
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Ahhhh. So its in this corner somewhere. Likely hidden behind the paneling.. Would that be prone to more rattles and a lower sound quality?



And also, were any of the previous Acura Sub woofers in the ELS systems ported? Doesn't porting the sub enclose give it a louder and more responsive experience?

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-31-2013 23:37
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Hondatalover wrote:
Doesn't porting the sub enclose give it a louder and more responsive experience?


Porting is as much art as science. It generally yields more output due to efficiency gains but requires more care in every aspect to keep the bass tightly controlled. Generally speaking (IMO) you're trading quantity for quality. I'd much rather have a sealed (acoustic suspension) sub with high current amps and lots of power.

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 00:28
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Colin wrote:
Hondatalover wrote:
Doesn't porting the sub enclose give it a louder and more responsive experience?


Porting is as much art as science. It generally yields more output due to efficiency gains but requires more care in every aspect to keep the bass tightly controlled. Generally speaking (IMO) you're trading quantity for quality. I'd much rather have a sealed (acoustic suspension) sub with high current amps and lots of power.



I've always delt with ported subs, and I generally get the idea of them being the best because of the 1200watt Samsung HT-TX72 system in my living room. Shakes the whole house, and its so clear. And then you got car systems... which are different.

As long it thumps with little to no distortion :)

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 16:00
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Philistine!

It's on the right rear side panel.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: No Krell [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 16:10
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Colin wrote:
Hondatalover wrote:
Doesn't porting the sub enclose give it a louder and more responsive experience?


Porting is as much art as science. It generally yields more output due to efficiency gains but requires more care in every aspect to keep the bass tightly controlled. Generally speaking (IMO) you're trading quantity for quality. I'd much rather have a sealed (acoustic suspension) sub with high current amps and lots of power.



(1) The subwoofer in my TSX is in the same location. No problems with rattles.

(2) I have not noted a port. I think it's an acoustic suspension job which makes sense as all other speakers are the same so doing otherwise would create a discontinuity in the "speed" of the bass response.

(3) There is nothing wrong with ported speakers. My Acoustic Energys, Quads and PSBs are ported. What you get is a smooth bass response down to some point (extended by the port) and then a fast (12db or so) downward frequency response below the tuning of the port.

(4) Acoustic suspension woofers, OTOH, tend to have a gentler downward slope (6db) below their lower full output frequency. As a rule of thumb, these designs require more power. My oldie but very goodie ADS L810s have two 8 inch woofers in such a mode and they are offer very very taught and fast bass.

(5) Neither acoustic suspension nor porting (in all its possible types) hold an advantage of each other on their bass quality. It's all in the design, execution and parts.

Of course the best design is NO CABINET... as in my Magnepans.




 
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