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  TOV News > All-New 2014 Acura MDX Debuts at the New York International Auto Show > > Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back

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silverTL6
Profile for silverTL6
2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:29
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So much for the "Advance" tagline.

2G to 3G MDX:
- loss of standard AWD
- 300 hp to 290 hp
- 270 lb/ft to 267 lb/ft

RL to RLX:
- loss of standard AWD

1G to 2G RDX:
- loss of "Super Handling" AWD
- loss of standard HID's

TSX to ILX:
- 2.4 AT to 2.0 AT
- 201 hp to 150 hp
- 170 hp to 140 hp
- loss of standard HID's
- loss of standard leather interior

TL to TLX:
- loss of V6 standard?
- can't bear to think what else will no longer be standard

The Legend
Profile for The Legend
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:39
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+ significant increase in MPG's
+ reduced weight and increased power/weight ratio

- significant decrease in horsepower and this is NO good in spec-sheet marketing perspective.


indeed... 2 steps forward, 1 step back.


silverTL6
Profile for silverTL6
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:47
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Indeed, for new customers that are unaware of the specs on the previous models, the new specs are certainly "good enough".

I just can't think of any other Tier 1 or 2 automaker that makes "improvements" like these when introducing replacements of existing models :-(

Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:49
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"........you never get too far like that"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-brQTFyFTo

BachelorFrog
Profile for BachelorFrog
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 18:54
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- Significant increase in price.

- Significant decrease in styling in and out.

- Significant decrease in fun.

- Outdated transmissions.

I can go on....

Tsx24Mivtec
Profile for Tsx24Mivtec
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 19:20
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So being 8 sec faster on the Nürburgring = significant decrease in fun??? really?

watchig the video of this thing on the ring it looked like quite a bit of fun if you ask me. well at least as much fun as you can have in an suv.

The Legend
Profile for The Legend
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 19:25
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BachelorFrog wrote:
- Significant increase in price.


2008: $1 USD = 120 Jap yen
before dollar crash
yen slightly undervalued

2013: $1 USD = 80 Jap yen
aftermath of dollar crash
yen significantly overvalued

it's natural that the cost of 3rd gen MDX will cost us more today than in '08

and don't forget this MDX is sporting exotic materials for what's basically an SUV!

The 2014 MDX body applies more than 55 percent advanced lightweight materials – including high strength steel, aluminum and magnesium



silverTL6
Profile for silverTL6
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 21:01
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If they're going to publicize hp/torque decreases, they should also publicize the Nurburgring or 0-60 times equally if not more.
jshaw
Profile for jshaw
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2013 21:18
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The Legend wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
- Significant increase in price.


2008: $1 USD = 120 Jap yen
before dollar crash
yen slightly undervalued

2013: $1 USD = 80 Jap yen
aftermath of dollar crash
yen significantly overvalued

it's natural that the cost of 3rd gen MDX will cost us more today than in '08

and don't forget this MDX is sporting exotic materials for what's basically an SUV!

The 2014 MDX body applies more than 55 percent advanced lightweight materials – including high strength steel, aluminum and magnesium




All that would make sense, if Acura didn't publicise the Acura MDX as an, "American engineered vehicle," with even an American-named person leading the charge ("Jim Keller"). It also mentioned the previous two generations were developed&engineered right here, in the USA. The MDX was also never manufactured in Japan (and if it was, it was likely only as a test run before moving production to the US - like the 9G Accord).

Lets be honest, a Honda Accord also has, "exotic materials," anyone remember that Lexus advert from a while back? Talking about gold plated electrical contacts? Except that was practically par for the norm in the industry, anyways? It's not like the new Land Rover, NSX, or the Audi A8, where the entire car is made of aluminum.
silverTL6 wrote:
If they're going to publicize hp/torque decreases, they should also publicize the Nurburgring or 0-60 times equally if not more.

8 seconds on a hulking van that likely takes much more than 9 mins to even cover the ring when it's empty with good weather, I doubt anyone would care. If we were talking times similar to the Cayenne Turbo, on the other hand...

cFoo
Profile for cFoo
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 00:52
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Products and company directions reminds me of GM in the early 2000s. Ugly products, and less of everything in every new generation while the rest of the industry is "Advancing". If you need any more GM references, just look at Variable Cylinder Management, guess what GM were doing in 2000s? Active Fuel Management, turning off cylinders left and right. A complete failure.

The only management Honda need is a complete "management" make over. Not engine management.



The Legend
Profile for The Legend
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 02:13
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cFoo wrote:
If you need any more GM references, just look at Variable Cylinder Management, guess what GM were doing in 2000s? Active Fuel Management, turning off cylinders left and right. A complete failure.

The only management Honda need is a complete "management" make over. Not engine management.





I don't like that system at all. Is there a Hondata chip that actually disables VCM?

I think when you drive a Honda V6 with VCM normally and at leisure pace... there will be uneven wear in one of the cylinder banks... I also think long term durability of V6 with VCM is suspect and you're better off with an I4 like in Accord.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 10:44
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silverTL6 wrote:
So much for the "Advance" tagline.

2G to 3G MDX:
- loss of standard AWD
- 300 hp to 290 hp
- 270 lb/ft to 267 lb/ft

RL to RLX:
- loss of standard AWD

1G to 2G RDX:
- loss of "Super Handling" AWD
- loss of standard HID's

TSX to ILX:
- 2.4 AT to 2.0 AT
- 201 hp to 150 hp
- 170 hp to 140 hp
- loss of standard HID's
- loss of standard leather interior

TL to TLX:
- loss of V6 standard?
- can't bear to think what else will no longer be standard

Imho you really have a twister logic.
How can be "getting additional trim variants and drivetrain options" be considered "a loss" of any kind???

If you want an AWD MDX you can buy, some people just got:
+ available 2WD version with stellar MPG.

There is really no other way I can see this no matter how hard I try. Maybe it's just me...


iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 11:18
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silverTL6 wrote:
So much for the "Advance" tagline.

2G to 3G MDX:
- loss of standard AWD
- 300 hp to 290 hp
- 270 lb/ft to 267 lb/ft




The 3G MDX gains over the 2G MDX:
-16/21/18 mpg to 18/27/21 with SH-AWD
-20/28/23 available for people who don't need/want AWD
-Integrated Dynamic System with 3 distinct drive modes
-17% more aerodynamic and much quieter
-Bigger 2nd and 3rd row seats
-LED headlights
-Acuralink system
-LKAS
-ACC w/Low Speed follow
-ACE II (which, after watching those front overlap crash videos, is suddenly extremely important to me and should be for anyone who drives on two-lane roads a lot)
-Oh and it's faster and probably drives better.

If someone went from a 2G MDX to a FWD 3G MDX (because they didn't really want AWD) and drove 15,000 miles a year and got exactly the EPA averages with both vehicles the 3G MDX would save them $680 a year in fuel costs. That's $3400 over a 60 month loan.

I think they can live with 3 less lb/ft of torque and 10 less hp.

I say all that but I feel like your original post was so obtuse and slanted so heavily against Acura that you won't really listen to what I'm saying anyway.

JMU R1
Profile for JMU R1
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 12:28
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I think some of you guys are missing the boat here. This new MDX has its own platform. Read that again. They designed the platform specifically for the MDX, which is one major reason they were able to cut a lot of weight. The previous MDX used the Odyssey platform. So now instead of tarting up a lower-spec platform, they'll be toning down the higher performance platform for other models (definitely the Pilot at least).

We haven't driven the MDX yet, but everyone at Acura has told us the driving dynamics are significantly better than before, and the MDX was already a match for anything in its class in handling.

And bottom line is, the MDX is faster than the old model while getting better gas mileage. What's not to like about that?



Last edited by JMU R1 on 03-28-2013 13:15
Mochisushi
Profile for Mochisushi
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 13:01
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I don't like that system at all. Is there a Hondata chip that actually disables VCM?

I think when you drive a Honda V6 with VCM normally and at leisure pace... there will be uneven wear in one of the cylinder banks... I also think long term durability of V6 with VCM is suspect and you're better off with an I4 like in Accord.


Our 2005 Odyssey EX-L with VCM has 275K miles with no engine work other than normal maintenance, a new starter and battery cables. Oil consumption is 1 quart every 2500 miles. Our 2006 Odyssey EX-L has 105K miles. There is ZERO consumption (yes...still at the upper level) when the oil monitor says it's time for a change. There is no uneven wear with that kind of consumption. And I'm not sure why it would wear uneven anyway. The pistons continue to move up and down regardless.



Last edited by JMU R1 on 03-28-2013 13:15
SH-AWD10
Profile for SH-AWD10
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 16:06
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Someone has said this before, but if you took a BMW/MB/Audi/Bugatti, etc. and removed all badging and put it up here as Acura's new model there would be no end of harping, criticizing, etc. and comments about another Acura "failure."

For sure, Acura (or any other car company) is not perfect. But some of this endless criticism is just crazy. For example, "uneven cylinder wear" due to VCM? What? Do you think 3 of the pistons actually stop moving? Loss of a few hp (without taking into account 275 pounds less weight)?

I am frequenting this forum less and less. I am beginning to think the name should be changed to Temple of VTEC Haters.

JMU R1
Profile for JMU R1
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 16:13
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SH-AWD10 wrote:
Someone has said this before, but if you took a BMW/MB/Audi/Bugatti, etc. and removed all badging and put it up here as Acura's new model there would be no end of harping, criticizing, etc. and comments about another Acura "failure."

For sure, Acura (or any other car company) is not perfect. But some of this endless criticism is just crazy. For example, "uneven cylinder wear" due to VCM? What? Do you think 3 of the pistons actually stop moving? Loss of a few hp (without taking into account 275 pounds less weight)?

I am frequenting this forum less and less. I am beginning to think the name should be changed to Temple of VTEC Haters.


I think you'll find any enthusiast site has their haters. If there aren't many haters, you'll find a lot of overzealous fandom. Gotta take the good with the bad. At least it's mostly civil around here.

tsxfan19
Profile for tsxfan19
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-28-2013 16:22
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SH-AWD10 wrote:
I am frequenting this forum less and less. I am beginning to think the name should be changed to Temple of VTEC Haters.


Dude! Same here. I've been here for nearly 10 years; but, I am kind of tired of all the complaining about how Honda does NO right. One is definitely entitled to his opinion; but, if he's so against Honda/Acura, I'd suggest going to a forum of an automotive firm that he does enjoy. Goodness.

iNteGRaz92
Profile for iNteGRaz92
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-29-2013 01:51
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SH-AWD10 wrote:
Someone has said this before, but if you took a BMW/MB/Audi/Bugatti, etc. and removed all badging and put it up here as Acura's new model there would be no end of harping, criticizing, etc. and comments about another Acura "failure."

For sure, Acura (or any other car company) is not perfect. But some of this endless criticism is just crazy. For example, "uneven cylinder wear" due to VCM? What? Do you think 3 of the pistons actually stop moving? Loss of a few hp (without taking into account 275 pounds less weight)?

I am frequenting this forum less and less. I am beginning to think the name should be changed to Temple of VTEC Haters.


i've learned to deal with it. people will just see what they want to see and complain about it. tons of people say the rlx is already a failure, it's bland, overpriced. hilarious. they think the rlx is bland? my god, take a look at the current 7 series. it looks like a slab-slided brick to me. nothing about it screams luxury to me, yet it sells. people here probably won't agree with me but the badge sells. it doesn't matter what the rlx looks like or what's under the hood or what it's priced at.

fatbloke
Profile for fatbloke
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-29-2013 05:54
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The Legend wrote:
cFoo wrote:
If you need any more GM references, just look at Variable Cylinder Management, guess what GM were doing in 2000s? Active Fuel Management, turning off cylinders left and right. A complete failure.

The only management Honda need is a complete "management" make over. Not engine management.





I don't like that system at all. Is there a Hondata chip that actually disables VCM?

I think when you drive a Honda V6 with VCM normally and at leisure pace... there will be uneven wear in one of the cylinder banks... I also think long term durability of V6 with VCM is suspect and you're better off with an I4 like in Accord.


You should work for Honda/Acura, i don't suppose they thought of that! Are you an idiot?

TheDiscriminator
Profile for TheDiscriminator
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 15:19
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Acura will keep releasing these smart products to troll them and gradually purge these dumb people from the fanbase.


SH-AWD10 wrote:
Someone has said this before, but if you took a BMW/MB/Audi/Bugatti, etc. and removed all badging and put it up here as Acura's new model there would be no end of harping, criticizing, etc. and comments about another Acura "failure."

For sure, Acura (or any other car company) is not perfect. But some of this endless criticism is just crazy. For example, "uneven cylinder wear" due to VCM? What? Do you think 3 of the pistons actually stop moving? Loss of a few hp (without taking into account 275 pounds less weight)?

I am frequenting this forum less and less. I am beginning to think the name should be changed to Temple of VTEC Haters.



notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 21:52
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Just to be fair, there _is_ a class action lawsuit pending (heard Honda may settle before it goes to court) on excessive oil consumption and other running issues on VCM engines.

Now, you guys all know how harsh I was to the woman who won and then lost her Civic Hybrid suit in small claims court (I think it was ridiculous), but there is some evidence that the non-running cylinders may see an accumulation of oil gunk on the piston rings which may impede the ability of the piston rings to rotate, and over the long term this could cause issues. I can't see this happening on most cars. In fact, you'd have to be in VCM a whole lot for this to happen, which is pretty hard to do.

Anyways, nothing proven, but just know that _some_ people think its a big enough issue to go to court over. We'll see what comes out in the wash.

SC

Honda-D
Profile for Honda-D
Re: 2 steps forward, 1 step back [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 23:01
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MDX is going against JX, XC90, and may be even Q7.

It never claims to be a Cayenne or to be macho or sporty in any way. But it's the most sporty of the bunch of 7 passenger carriers.

It's a well thought out luxury SUV for people who needs a Minivan but hates the stigma. It saves gas, has AWD, generous room and now a platform shared with RL and a bit sportier? Bonus.

I think the packaging and versatility is very smart. This is why last gen MDX sold so well and so will this one.... assuming the 2WD version will bring in lower starting price.

Acura is about being smart than brawn. If you didn't get turn on by the video of Kim Keller talking about iPad/purse fitting center console, motor-integrated rear hatch struts and static latch on rear cargo cover, you are not the targeted MDX demographic.


 
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