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  TOV News > All-New 2014 Acura RLX Employs an Array of New Signature Acura Technologies to Deliver a New Level > > Re: Edmunds First Drive

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owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 19:51
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Fan Koni wrote:
Its a positioning game. You don't want the top version to outshine the main seller because buyers may not read enough comparisons etc - which doesn't help sales.

Lets think both came out the same time. The fwd gets a few mentions but in contrast the rave will be on the hybrid.

Which would be ok - except for the price position Acura can't justify.

Acura doesn't want a yeah this new hybrid is great!
...But hell no I am not spending 70 grand on an Acura - I'd be the village idiot at the golf club.


So the fwd is a stepping stone for the brand.
So the flagship - as they called it - really needs to flag Acura in the heads of of people buying in this market segment.


BMW M - similar thing but coming from the other side.
M doesn't want to be linked to the boring versions.





I believe this is completely backwards, with plenty of history to support it.

BMW doesn't sell a lot of lower level models because people are too confused and can't be distracted with higher models. The idea is that any person striving to a target shoots high and lands low. What that means is that any reasonable person would rather have a 335i than a 328i in most cases. However, once they get into the showroom (because of the higher end model), they usually end up getting the lower level model in most cases (hence why they sell in higher volume). If it isn't performance etc, then it is styling that brings them in. With the lower model, they still get the same styling as the higher model, but with less car. However, they still feel like they got most of the higher model. Most of their friends think so anyway. Why do you think companies like BMW have spent so much time and money making sure the top level models look very good? The M brand does the same thing. It elevates the overall level of perceived value by producing a car that is take no prisoners top dog in segment. Brand image is not built from the bottom up, it is built from the top down.

Where Acura screwed themselves was in NOT releasing the only model that had a snowball's chance in hell of elevating the brand. What people see with this car first is "too underpowered," "FWD" or "where is the Audi dealership. The ONLY model that had ANY chance of actually sucking buyers into the showroom is the last one they launch, and by then it will be too late because the market will have already associated it with a FWD Accord based "luxury" car. The last RL suffered the same fate, and it was way more powerful than Accord with exclusive AWD and a crap ton of features. Within a year, sales were plummeting.

What Acura needs right now is ANY car that will pull people into the showroom, and they have...nothing. The NSX won't pull it off either because the rest of the product will not be up to par with its performance/execution, and the consumers will notice that.

dampflok
Profile for dampflok
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 19:54
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dampflok wrote:
"Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito's decision to take content out of the 2012 Civic would delay the car's launch by nearly six months, from late 2010 to early 2011." (Emphasis added.)

You were saying?
By the way, the quote is from the Automotive News article "How Honda Hustled to Redo Civic" (http://www.autonews.com/article/20130107/ZZZ_SPECIAL/301079735#axzz2LObhNQSa), which was posted on the forums a while ago.


integrator
Profile for integrator
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 20:14
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By the looks of it, you must think Ito came up with that idea all by himself... sitting in his ivory tower and handing down proclamations. That kind of direction is championed and pushed. Take another guess, fanboy, cuz theres more back-story here on the 12 Civic. Ito is taking responsibility for that decision... thats all that says.
dampflok
Profile for dampflok
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 20:55
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integrator wrote:
By the looks of it, you must think Ito came up with that idea all by himself... sitting in his ivory tower and handing down proclamations. That kind of direction is championed and pushed. Take another guess, fanboy, cuz theres more back-story here on the 12 Civic. Ito is taking responsibility for that decision... thats all that says.
"Fanboy"? Dude, please.


dampflok
Profile for dampflok
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 01:28
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TurkMan71 wrote:
I think the RLX is a product of Japan not wanting to or unable to, for whatever reason (stubbornness? pride? aversion to class norms?), to invest in RWD architecture.
I think they're just being cheap. That's it, plain and simple: They're being cheap. Look at it this way. If they really wanted to do their own thing, and do it the best they could, then wouldn't they have designed a unique FF-transverse platform for the RLX that was optimized for SH-SH-AWD and everything else? Instead, they just used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform. Like I said, cheap.


sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 03:26
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dampflok wrote:
Instead, they just used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform. Like I said, cheap.




You know, I don't remember seeing any evidence for this? Do you have any?

dampflok
Profile for dampflok
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 13:52
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sadlerau wrote:
dampflok wrote:
Instead, they just used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform. Like I said, cheap.
You know, I don't remember seeing any evidence for this? Do you have any?
You know, I may have been just running my mouth on this point. I thought there was a consensus on these forums that the RLX used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform because of the DWBs, but going back through the discussions here and elsewhere, I found just speculation and educated guesses. Honda's use of 8th-gen Accords as demonstration mules for the SH-SH-AWD system, however, might be evidence in my favor.


Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 14:25
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dampflok wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
dampflok wrote:
Instead, they just used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform. Like I said, cheap.
You know, I don't remember seeing any evidence for this? Do you have any?
You know, I may have been just running my mouth on this point. I thought there was a consensus on these forums that the RLX used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform because of the DWBs, but going back through the discussions here and elsewhere, I found just speculation and educated guesses. Honda's use of 8th-gen Accords as demonstration mules for the SH-SH-AWD system, however, might be evidence in my favor.



The RLX is ACE II so it's on the new Accord chassis. It has to be if they want to be sure they'll pass the IIHS small overlap test. Most likely, they're using a different engine/transmission cradle that allows for DWBs

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 14:59
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330R wrote:
Fire Mendel, Conrad, Poponi. Give Iwamura a swift kick in the nuts for insisting on keeping the stupid Alpha-Bits names.

Hire Palmer, Church, McDaniel. Give Garcia-Rodriguez a swift kick in the nuts for insisting on keeping the stupid Duracell batteries.

Problems solved.




Funniest post in a long while!

dampflok
Profile for dampflok
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 16:07
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Colin wrote:
dampflok wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
dampflok wrote:
Instead, they just used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform. Like I said, cheap.
You know, I don't remember seeing any evidence for this? Do you have any?
You know, I may have been just running my mouth on this point. I thought there was a consensus on these forums that the RLX used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform because of the DWBs, but going back through the discussions here and elsewhere, I found just speculation and educated guesses. Honda's use of 8th-gen Accords as demonstration mules for the SH-SH-AWD system, however, might be evidence in my favor.
The RLX is ACE II so it's on the new Accord chassis. It has to be if they want to be sure they'll pass the IIHS small overlap test. Most likely, they're using a different engine/transmission cradle that allows for DWBs
So it is a reworked Accord platform after all, but the current one, not the 8th-gen.


George Knighton
Profile for George Knighton
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 17:22
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I still can't wait to see how the SH-AWD version pans out, and how expensive it has to be.

As the owner of a 2010 TL 6-6 SH-AWD with about 70,000 miles on it, I'm still thinking that the RLX SH-AWD is going to be my next car. If it doesn't work out so well, then I'll be waiting for the 2015 TLX SH-AWD to see if that's a better fit.

I've been watching and listening.

Cadillac ATS and XTS with Haldex are *almost* enough specifications-wise to make me think about buying an American car...but when you sit in them and drive them, you end up thinking your TL 6-6 is enough of a car for the moment and the American cars just don't seem to have it all together like Acura.

I admit the Lexus LS is quite a car, but once you've had SH-AWD you really want torque vectoring. :-)

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 22:08
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dampflok wrote:
So it is a reworked Accord platform after all, but the current one, not the 8th-gen.



Sorry but that is still speculation, not fact. Colin, were you told it was based on the latest generation Accord chassis? I would have thought with the installation of eSH-AWD requirements and longer wheelbase let alone the use of DWB instead of struts it would be, at best, only loosely based on the Accord platform. Where does a new chassis become a new chassis?? But it's an old hoary chestnut so maybe we'll just leave it there? :)


Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 02:29
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sadlerau wrote:
dampflok wrote:
So it is a reworked Accord platform after all, but the current one, not the 8th-gen.



Sorry but that is still speculation, not fact. Colin, were you told it was based on the latest generation Accord chassis? I would have thought with the installation of eSH-AWD requirements and longer wheelbase let alone the use of DWB instead of struts it would be, at best, only loosely based on the Accord platform. Where does a new chassis become a new chassis?? But it's an old hoary chestnut so maybe we'll just leave it there? :)



This is true, but they NEVER say its built on the Accord chassis, it's always referred to the "global mid-sized chassis" For years these chassis' are of a modular design with three sections. The front (or rear) subframe can be changed or swapped out pretty easily. I'm sure this could allow for a longer wheelbase if needed without changing the center section. It also allows for the usage of aluminum vs. steel (as in current TLs, RLs and RLX) or (apparently) DWB. So "loosely" or "closely" based is a slippery slope as you noted and I agree, leave it there!

BTW, I've added another short video that I was working on where the facilitator at the training event was talking about the (new) chassis.





sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 05:10
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Watched the video, so great, they've taken weight out of the back 2/3 of the body and added it to the front - in an effort to pass the 20% offset crash test. That will do the balance of the FWD chassis no favours. Makes PAWS all the more important.
TH23
Profile for TH23
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 10:14
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Colin wrote:
dampflok wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
dampflok wrote:
Instead, they just used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform. Like I said, cheap.
You know, I don't remember seeing any evidence for this? Do you have any?
You know, I may have been just running my mouth on this point. I thought there was a consensus on these forums that the RLX used a modified 8th-gen Accord platform because of the DWBs, but going back through the discussions here and elsewhere, I found just speculation and educated guesses. Honda's use of 8th-gen Accords as demonstration mules for the SH-SH-AWD system, however, might be evidence in my favor.



The RLX is ACE II so it's on the new Accord chassis. It has to be if they want to be sure they'll pass the IIHS small overlap test. Most likely, they're using a different engine/transmission cradle that allows for DWBs



The 2013 Civic still rides on the same chassis as the 2012, but it is ACE II whereas the 2012 was just ACE. All they did was reinforce the existing structure in key areas (while adding weight in the process) and that was sufficient for them to dub it ACE II. They could've done the same to the 8th gen Accord chassis for the RLX, but who knows?

TH23
Profile for TH23
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 10:26
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Oh yeah, the Edmunds First Test is now up!

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2014-acura-rlx-track-test.html

Kind of disappointing, IMHO. It posted worse numbers in both acceleration and handling than the last V6 Accord they tested. I guess that's to be expected with over 400 lbs of extra weight.

Also, something must've been wrong with the 535i they tested a few years ago because it was only as quick as the Accord in the quarter-mile (14.3 seconds) and had a lower trap speed. I thought the 535i was quicker than that...hmmm.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 12:41
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TH23 wrote:
Oh yeah, the Edmunds First Test is now up!

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2014-acura-rlx-track-test.html

Kind of disappointing, IMHO. It posted worse numbers in both acceleration and handling than the last V6 Accord they tested. I guess that's to be expected with over 400 lbs of extra weight.

Also, something must've been wrong with the 535i they tested a few years ago because it was only as quick as the Accord in the quarter-mile (14.3 seconds) and had a lower trap speed. I thought the 535i was quicker than that...hmmm.



The 19" rims don't help for sure and I'd imagine those are enough to lower the 1/4 mile trap speed by 1mph.

With that said, it's slightly slower than average in class.

dysonlu
Profile for dysonlu
Re: Edmunds First Drive [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 17:55
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integrator wrote:
By the looks of it, you must think Ito came up with that idea all by himself... sitting in his ivory tower and handing down proclamations. That kind of direction is championed and pushed. Take another guess, fanboy, cuz theres more back-story here on the 12 Civic. Ito is taking responsibility for that decision... thats all that says.


I expect to read anything in the comment section of this site but someone calling people here "fanboy"?! LMAO Most people here are everything but.


 
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