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  TOV News > All-New 2014 Acura RLX Employs an Array of New Signature Acura Technologies to Deliver a New Level > > Re: RLX will be moderately successful

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longhorn
Profile for longhorn
RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 12:08
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Looking at the segment the RLX is in, does anyone think the RLX will not sell at least 500 units a month? That would put it on par with the Infiniti M. Personally, I am expecting sales of around a 700 a month when the RLX hits the dealers running.

Eclass 5,469 +33.5%
5series 2,585 -19.6%
XTS 1,900
A6 1,259 +11%
GS 1,099 +1,034.5%
MKS 909 +22.7%
M 413 -41%
RL 13 -60.6%

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 12:44
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It's really hard to say at this moment.

I understand the idea behind the RLX. Honda believed the previous RL failed for the following main reasons:

1.) High starting price at the beginning. The price gap between the top of the line TL and the starting price of RL was pretty big. Back in 2005, the RL started at $49k. The top of the line TL with Navi was $35k. That's $14k difference.

Solution: Close the price gap! The top of the line TL (6AT SH-AWD with advance pkg) is $45k. The RLX starts at $49k.

The gap is certainly much smaller. Still, I was hoping there could be some overlap in pricing, just like what other companies are doing (i.e. a loaded 335i is more expensive than a base 528i). This is possible if the base RLX has even less features. I feel that the base RLX is very well equipped - too well equipped I might even say.

2.) Bland styling. I really like the 2G RL because of its understated yet elegant styling. But that's not what others think of it. Most think it's too bland.

Solution: Honda is making the RLX more elegant. However, most, including myself, still feel it's too conservative. It does not stand out. That's understandable given the 4G TL experience.

3.) Interior dimensions. The RL is not small, but its rear leg room seems to be a major concern for a lot of people. Also, the car isn't any more spacious than the TL. With that said, people didn't see the purpose of going with the RL when the TL does the job at a much lower price.

Solution: the RLX looks bigger, is bigger inside, and rear leg room is significant better at least on paper. Space is no longer an issue.

Are the above fixes enough to lift sales? I really don't know. I still feel the starting price is a concern as we all know the brand name doesn't mean much for a lot of people.


DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 13:52
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The marketing is going to make or break this car. That is all they need to get right on this one, but without the hybrid tech showcase available at launch, they may have already screwed themselves.

Acura - Advance, backwards.

Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 14:47
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Hondarulez wrote:
I understand the idea behind the RLX. Honda believed the previous RL failed for the following main reasons:

1.) High starting price at the beginning. The price gap between the top of the line TL and the starting price of RL was pretty big. Back in 2005, the RL started at $49k. The top of the line TL with Navi was $35k. That's $14k difference.

Solution: Close the price gap! The top of the line TL (6AT SH-AWD with advance pkg) is $45k. The RLX starts at $49k.

Forget "gap" and focus on starting price. As you wrote, the RL and RLX have the exact same starting price.

Back in 2005 that meant 300hp and SH-AWD. In 2013 it means 310hp and FWD with rear steering.

Hardly a great leap forward. I dare not even look at how competitors, say BMW, have advanced in the same 7 years...

RHalabi
Profile for RHalabi
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 14:54
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longhorn wrote:
Looking at the segment the RLX is in, does anyone think the RLX will not sell at least 500 units a month? That would put it on par with the Infiniti M. Personally, I am expecting sales of around a 700 a month when the RLX hits the dealers running.

Eclass 5,469 +33.5%
5series 2,585 -19.6%
XTS 1,900
A6 1,259 +11%
GS 1,099 +1,034.5%
MKS 909 +22.7%
M 413 -41%
RL 13 -60.6%



Thats a reasonable guess. I think it will do better the first couple months but 7-800 average the rest of the year. I think Honda will be very very happy with that. Since the old RL sold 300 all year.

TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 14:58
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LongHorn: I hope that you are right & that the RLX sells in the range of the Infiniti M. This would be a success for Acura. I was hoping for at least 500/month but seeing the #s for the MKS & the XTS gives hope for larger FWD luxury sedans.

I hope that Acura keeps refreshing & adding things to the RLX to keep sales up - unlike the last generation. Perhaps a regular hybrid that focuses more on MPG than HP?

Still crossing my fingers that the SH-SH-AWD version has a lot of cosmetic changes that make the RLX stand out more in a tasteful way.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 18:58
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Potenza wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
I understand the idea behind the RLX. Honda believed the previous RL failed for the following main reasons:

1.) High starting price at the beginning. The price gap between the top of the line TL and the starting price of RL was pretty big. Back in 2005, the RL started at $49k. The top of the line TL with Navi was $35k. That's $14k difference.

Solution: Close the price gap! The top of the line TL (6AT SH-AWD with advance pkg) is $45k. The RLX starts at $49k.

Forget "gap" and focus on starting price. As you wrote, the RL and RLX have the exact same starting price.

Back in 2005 that meant 300hp and SH-AWD. In 2013 it means 310hp and FWD with rear steering.

Hardly a great leap forward. I dare not even look at how competitors, say BMW, have advanced in the same 7 years...



Yea, that's one of my points too - the starting price should still be lower so create some sort of over lap with the TL, just like what the Germans do.

A sub RLX base starting at $44k (ie. get rid of things like AWS, forward collision warning, lane departure warning, moonroof, heated mirros, use HID's instead of LED, 17" wheels instead of 18") would be a better idea IMO. Even after removing the above, this theoretical sub RLX base trim is still better equipped than most competitors in base form that cost more.


Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 19:40
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DCR wrote:
The marketing is going to make or break this car. That is all they need to get right on this one, but without the hybrid tech showcase available at launch, they may have already screwed themselves.



You're right, it's all going to be about marketing. Acura has placed themselves in a bad corner, because they have screwed around in the market for 27 years, and have little progress to show for it. There is a big "L" stamped on their corporate forehead.

People who are willing to pay $50-$60K for a car expect something besides a nice car. They can get a nice car for $30K. They want that purchase to make a statement to others. Maybe the statement is that they have the skills to enjoy a "driver's car", or they appreciate superb German engineering, or they joined the "pursuit of perfection." Whatever, luxury cars are not bought just for the rationality of the product. They must make a statement, and Acura has failed miserably in creating that statement.

The question becomes: what can Acura do to become a positive statement for the luxury buyer? SHAWD, PAWS, and all the other elements of alphabet soup will not do it. Any suggestions?

BachelorFrog
Profile for BachelorFrog
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 19:43
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I hope it beats the MKS and Infiniti M and I'll consider it a successful launch.





TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 23:40
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Waldo wrote:
DCR wrote:
The marketing is going to make or break this car. That is all they need to get right on this one, but without the hybrid tech showcase available at launch, they may have already screwed themselves.



Whatever, luxury cars are not bought just for the rationality of the product. They must make a statement, and Acura has failed miserably in creating that statement.

The question becomes: what can Acura do to become a positive statement for the luxury buyer? SHAWD, PAWS, and all the other elements of alphabet soup will not do it. Any suggestions?



Well put, agree 110%!

Waldo
Profile for Waldo
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 00:10
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BachelorFrog wrote:

I hope it beats the MKS and Infiniti M and I'll consider it a successful launch.




Good goal to shoot for. Acura can join the other two luxury brands that don't have a clue.

longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 10:09
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At 500 to 700 units a month would Honda shift production to the USA? Even at 50K a unit Honda has to be loosing money due to the Yen.

The styling is inoffensive (from the side profile, I am getting a Buck LaCrosse vibe from it) and its an Acura. There are alot of people who want a luxury car that starts every morning, have accessories that actually work, and only want to visit the dealership for an oil change and free car wash once a year. 500-700 in sales should be easy for this car. We will see a year from now.

BalIermd
Profile for BalIermd
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 16:09
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Waldo wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:

I hope it beats the MKS and Infiniti M and I'll consider it a successful launch.




Good goal to shoot for. Acura can join the other two luxury brands that don't have a clue.



Not sure why everyone is jumping on the bandwagon to pair the success of the RLX with the Infiniti M's current monthly sales.

So basically, some will consider the RLX a success if it matches the lowly sales of a model that's now over 3 years old? Another lackluster entry that even back when it got a FMC, still only sold mid-pack? And now hasn't seen over 1,000 in sales for months?

You're right. That's an excellent goal to shoot for.

Torque
Profile for Torque
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 16:34
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Waldo wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:

I hope it beats the MKS and Infiniti M and I'll consider it a successful launch.




Good goal to shoot for. Acura can join the other two luxury brands that don't have a clue.



The head honchos at Nissan were smart enough to admit internally that they had no clue what they were doing other than with the G. It takes a lot of balls to realize and admit that their approach has been wrong and needs redirection.

They made the smart move by hiring Johan de Nysschen. This is the guy that slowly but surely resurrected Audi from the steaming pile it was in the early 1980's. At least Nissan knows that to play big you have to invest big and make some serious changes. As a separate division with a separate HQ and some actual distancing between itself and Nissan I think de Nysschen is going to do something really similar with Infiniti. Their lineup may not be anything special but at least the G series, ummm Q series, has some real meat to it.

Teamhondaguy
Profile for Teamhondaguy
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 14:54
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I'm a little confused by the people on this site. First Acura needs a FR setup with a V8 and aggressive styling to be taken seriously. These are what Infiniti has done their V6s are even tuned to snap your neck back. There moves have followed the wishes of the enthusiast who know best how to design a best seller. Acura is going their own way and appealing to their real base. They have never built flashy cars and when ever they have gone there they hurt themselves. I remember when the original NSX came out it was laughed at by this crowd since you had to have a V8 to be a real sports car. They still command pretty penny over 20 years later partially because they still look good. Most of the Aggressive designs get really old after 2-3 years and they become hard sells as preowned. Take a 4 year old audi or BMW to the dealer to sell out right. They usually don't want them back. On the other hand an Acura dealer would give you good money for it in a nano second. Why? Thats why a customer would by a 5 year old Acura but wouldn't even consider most other luxury vehicle that old.
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 15:25
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Teamhondaguy wrote:
Most of the Aggressive designs get really old after 2-3 years and they become hard sells as preowned. Take a 4 year old audi or BMW to the dealer to sell out right. They usually don't want them back. On the other hand an Acura dealer would give you good money for it in a nano second. Why? Thats why a customer would by a 5 year old Acura but wouldn't even consider most other luxury vehicle that old.
I sure as hell hope Acura isn't designing and making cars for 2014 with pre-owned appeal in mind. Maybe that is why BMW and Audi are successful luxury companies and Acura keeps floundering...

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 17:33
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BalIermd wrote:
Waldo wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:

I hope it beats the MKS and Infiniti M and I'll consider it a successful launch.




Good goal to shoot for. Acura can join the other two luxury brands that don't have a clue.



Not sure why everyone is jumping on the bandwagon to pair the success of the RLX with the Infiniti M's current monthly sales.

So basically, some will consider the RLX a success if it matches the lowly sales of a model that's now over 3 years old? Another lackluster entry that even back when it got a FMC, still only sold mid-pack? And now hasn't seen over 1,000 in sales for months?

You're right. That's an excellent goal to shoot for.



Welcome to ACURA: the home of the mid-pack mind set

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 18:59
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Teamhondaguy wrote:
Acura is going their own way and appealing to their real base. They have never built flashy cars and when ever they have gone there they hurt themselves.


I know that you typically talk straight out of your ass, and I ignore 99.9% of what you post, but this little tidbit sure seems interesting.

Please, do expand on this quote.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2013 22:41
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Teamhondaguy wrote:
I remember when the original NSX came out it was laughed at by this crowd since you had to have a V8 to be a real sports car.


Like they laughed at the 6cyl Porsche 911 it competed with in price/hp/weight?

Oooookay.

SC

jero
Profile for jero
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2013 07:00
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I will take a year for supply to ramp up.
They aren't importing them due to exchange rate.
They aren't marketing it to keep it exclusive.
They will make it better with the MMC.
Sales will pick up with the hybrid later in the year.

I think I may have covered all the TOV future excuses...


I think if they sell 400 units a month Honda will be giving each other reach arounds.

Has Honda released a sales goal yet?

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2013 10:55
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You know, a recent experience of mine led me to think more about Acura's marketing mistakes.

I have a number of customers that are very successful in their careers who are constantly moving up the ladder in terms of vehicle choice. And I have some customers that live very modestly so that they can buy cars that most would consider beyond their means.

Recently, the trend among these customers has been to buy new Nissan GT-Rs. Now, Nissan/Infiniti is not necessarily well known as a good marketing company. They've certainly had plenty of foibles in recent years to match Honda's (Sentra rotting on the vine, Maxima - what's that?), but they really got the GT-R right. Released it with plenty of hype, then backed up that hype with performance.

But they didn't stop there. They actually released the GT-R at a reasonable price. At around $70k it was unmatched in terms of performance/$$$. You had to hustle to get one, and paying a markup wasn't uncommon, but it kept interest high.

Since the original release though, the price of the GT-R has steadily climbed. You're now going to pay $100k+ for one if you get it for list. But in most cases, list is a dream. You're really going to pay a $10k-$20k markup, especially if you want a particular customer. I had one customer buy a 500 mile return model (original buyer decided he wanted a different color) and he still paid MSRP. Performance has gone up too, but not at the rate the price has.

I'd be willing to bet that Nissan is still not making any money on the GT-R. But what they have done is create a vehicle which:

1. Is clearly superior to the competition in some very tangible ways (objectively so).
2. Offers a unique look/configuration.
3. Commands a premium even 5 years after its introduction.
4. Helps provide a significant halo effect for the brand.
5. Still offers astounding performance/$$ even at the elevated price (costs more than a Z06, but objectively outperforms it in most ways and doesn't require nearly as much skill to extract it; outruns a 911 turbo, costs substantially less).

Now, you might say, "But Shawn, the GT-R has a long history of performance going back many years". True, but Nissan still had to execute on the R35 and make it available.

Given that Acura is trying to reenter the RL market (or an even higher one), it would seem to me they could have learned a lot from the R35 GT-R relaunch. Maybe the eSH-AWD model is that car, but offering a clearly superior product starting at a very competitive price and then letting market success bring that price up would work very well. Seems to me another Japanese luxury brand did that with a car called the LS400 years ago too.

SC

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2013 12:38
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+1. Even though the RLX is probably worth the money for its features, it's also a great idea if it's priced more competitively to attract attention. Once the reputation is built, then Acura can start thinking about charging more.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: RLX will be moderately successful [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-24-2013 14:21
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notyper wrote:
Teamhondaguy wrote:
I remember when the original NSX came out it was laughed at by this crowd since you had to have a V8 to be a real sports car.


Like they laughed at the 6cyl Porsche 911 it competed with in price/hp/weight?

Oooookay.

SC



Or the 328/348 that it also mopped up with?


 
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