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  TOV News > All-New 2014 Acura RLX Employs an Array of New Signature Acura Technologies to Deliver a New Level > > Re: This thing is light

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danielgr
Profile for danielgr
This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-15-2013 22:38
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When they said "well below 2tones" I didn't expect it to come so low given the increases in size and feature content (and despite the demise on the SH-AWD system).

Here is the data for the base versions (more at acuranews.com), to which I added Acura's cheapest/smallest V6 sedan for comparison:
LxWxH (in) / weight (lbs)
- old : 195.8 x 72.7 x 57.2 / 4,099 lbs
- new : 196.1 x 74.4 x 57.7 / 3,933 lbs
- TSX : 185.6 x 72.4 x 57.9 / 3,680 lbs

LxWxH (mm) / weight (kg)
- old : 4973 x 1847 x 1455 / 1,860 kg
- new : 4982 x 1890 x 1465 / 1,784 kg
- TSX : 4715 x 1840 x 1440 / 1,669 kg


Sure that must help both with what overall seems (according to initial reviews) like a great driving experience (autrocross included) and imho impressive FE figures (city/hw/combined):
- old : 17 / 24 / 20
- new : 20 / 31 / 24
- TSX : 19 / 28 / 23

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2013 00:09
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Makes one wonder just how much SH-AWD added to the weigh of the car?
MalcolmR
Profile for MalcolmR
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2013 00:30
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.
Thank you, danielgr. Useful.

A more telling comparison will be comparing the AWD RLX hybrid SH-AWD.

That'll be very insightful on many aspects.

Malcolm



Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2013 08:24
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Actually I am disappointed, the RLX is heavier than E GS and M, all with rwd and 3.5 engines. The 5 is lighter too but its comes with a turbo 4.
We will ee what the hybrid adds, but I think it will blow the scales as the Lexus adds 400lbs - I don't think Acura can beat it.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2013 07:16
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Fan Koni wrote:
Actually I am disappointed, the RLX is heavier than E GS and M, all with rwd and 3.5 engines. The 5 is lighter too but its comes with a turbo 4.
We will ee what the hybrid adds, but I think it will blow the scales as the Lexus adds 400lbs - I don't think Acura can beat it.

I will not go through all of those cars (have no time), but the GS is a considerably smaller car.
The RLX is closer to LS size:
LxWxH (in) / weight (lbs)
- RLX : 196.1 x 74.4 x 57.7 / 3,933 lbs
- GS : 190.7 x 72.4 x 57.3 / 3,795lbs
- LS : 200.0 x 73.8 x 57.7 / 4,233 lbs

LxWxH (mm) / weight (kg)
- RLX : 4982 x 1890 x 1465 / 1,784 kg
- GS : 4845 x 1840 x 1455 / 1,685 kg
- LS : 5090 x 1875 x 1465 / 1,920 kg


And the beauty of the RLX is that thanks to its FWD package it can deliver considerably larger interior. For example, against the LS460, which is 4in/10cm longer (all measures are in inches):

LegRoom (F/R/Combined)
- RLX: 42.3 / 38.8 / 81.1
- LS: 43.7 / 35.8 / 79.5

HipRoom (F/R/Combined)
- RLX: 55.9 / 54.5 / 110.4
- LS: 55.4 / 55.5 / 110.9

Shoulder (F/R/Added)
- RLX: 59.6 / 57.0 / 116.6
- LS: 58.5 / 56.9 / 115.4


PS: LS headroom is a bit larger, but to me it's an irrelevant measurement and, above all, I got tired of copy-pasting figures. Check it if interested.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2013 16:59
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Compare it to the ES350. Same engine style, driveline config, etc.

The ES is 400 lbs lighter. It has a wheelbase within 1" of the RLX, is 3" shorter, 3" narrower and about as tall. It has _more_ legroom, and 1" less hiproom, 3" less shoulder room.

Considering that the RLX has about same external dimensions as the previous AWD RL but weighs about the same, the phrase, "this thing is light", really doesn't apply. Especially so when you consider the weight savings associated with FWD vs. RWD/AWD.

SC

shaymasdaddy
Profile for shaymasdaddy
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2013 18:20
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Comparing the ES350 to RLX is irrelevant because the Fwd TL/TLX is the 'true' competitor of the ES350.

I saw a white RLX yestersday and the fit and finish was excellent and definitely an upgrade from the previous RL. I didn't have time to drive it but every door even the trunk closed with substance befitting a vehiclej this price range. As much as I love Acuras, the car does look boring dependent on the color selected. It looked great in pearl white (my favorite color in cars) but in black, the car looks muted and the character lines are lost. Since I currently have an '09 TL Tech SH-AWD
Pearl white/ Umber leather combination, I'm not looking to be in the market for a while....that may change once I drive the RLX AWD Hybrid later today this year. : )


xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2013 18:56
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notyper wrote:

Considering that the RLX has about same external dimensions as the previous AWD RL but weighs about the same...
SC


The previous RL sure seemed a lot smaller in photos than the RLX.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2013 18:57
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Irrelevant? Why, because you don't like the comparison?

They're both FWD luxury cars with 3.5 V6s, with overlapping price ranges, automatic only, and similar size.

This particular thread was started to assert that the RLX is _light_ for its size/class. The ES350 is an example illustrating that the RLX really isn't light.

Whatever else you may think, it's a valid comparison for this thread.

SC

jshaw
Profile for jshaw
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2013 20:34
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notyper wrote:
Irrelevant? Why, because you don't like the comparison?

They're both FWD luxury cars with 3.5 V6s, with overlapping price ranges, automatic only, and similar size.

This particular thread was started to assert that the RLX is _light_ for its size/class. The ES350 is an example illustrating that the RLX really isn't light.

Whatever else you may think, it's a valid comparison for this thread.

SC


Yup. It's just like Ford thinking Lincoln can only be compared with luxury brands in auto reviews.

Say what?

Let's be honest, the buyer this FWD-only (hybrid be damned) car will likely cross shop between the slightly less ugly Lexus ES (it's actually quite good looking, except it's clearly hunched over the front wheels - just like this Acura).

Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Speaking of the ES [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 00:48
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notyper wrote:
Irrelevant? Why, because you don't like the comparison?

They're both FWD luxury cars with 3.5 V6s, with overlapping price ranges, automatic only, and similar size.

This particular thread was started to assert that the RLX is _light_ for its size/class. The ES350 is an example illustrating that the RLX really isn't light.

Whatever else you may think, it's a valid comparison for this thread.

SC

Frankly, the ES is probably where this RLX should be. It's 95% of the way there anyhow, being Accord-based FWD V6 AT-only. Now if it were only $36k - the starting price of the ES, which is also the price I mentioned when calling the RLX an Accord Touring Plus - we would have a sales king. Then we could forgive the bland looks. Understand them, even.

The ES if far and away the best selling Lexus car, with twice as many sales as the IS. 56,000 sold last year. Compared to under 400 RL models. Under 1100 the year before. Probably as well as the ES would sell if it were starting at $50k.

So the RLX has 4WS and SH-AWD, etc? I think the people in this specific car class have spoken: "Who cares?" The few people that would - and do - choose a car like the RL/RLX, they are not looking for an autobahn burner, despite what Acura dreams. And hell, you really have to push a car to get SH-AWD to make a difference. On the Nurburgring, absolutely. On the way to work or the golf course, no way in hell. I've tried. No American RL owner in history has provoked significant rear-outside-wheel torque vectoring around a corner. Aside from the press, the system is entirely unused in torque-vectoring form in the real world. If AWD is a sales necessity - which I'm not even sure it is in this application - then RealTime 4WD would do just fine. Lesson learned in the RDX.

The way I see it, a bland car that sells poorly is the ultimate shame. A bland car that sells well (ES) is acceptable. But if you're set on making a slow-selling car, as Acura seems to be, might as well throw caution to the wind and make it wild. They might just create a self-defeating prophecy. At the very least they'll keep their dignity and have some honest to goodness positive press, as opposed to having their "Flagship" torn down before it's even on sale.

NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Speaking of the ES [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 09:03
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^Well said.
iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: Speaking of the ES [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 09:57
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Potenza wrote:
notyper wrote:
Irrelevant? Why, because you don't like the comparison?

They're both FWD luxury cars with 3.5 V6s, with overlapping price ranges, automatic only, and similar size.

This particular thread was started to assert that the RLX is _light_ for its size/class. The ES350 is an example illustrating that the RLX really isn't light.

Whatever else you may think, it's a valid comparison for this thread.

SC

Frankly, the ES is probably where this RLX should be. It's 95% of the way there anyhow, being Accord-based FWD V6 AT-only. Now if it were only $36k - the starting price of the ES, which is also the price I mentioned when calling the RLX an Accord Touring Plus - we would have a sales king. Then we could forgive the bland looks. Understand them, even.

The ES if far and away the best selling Lexus car, with twice as many sales as the IS. 56,000 sold last year. Compared to under 400 RL models. Under 1100 the year before. Probably as well as the ES would sell if it were starting at $50k.

So the RLX has 4WS and SH-AWD, etc? I think the people in this specific car class have spoken: "Who cares?" The few people that would - and do - choose a car like the RL/RLX, they are not looking for an autobahn burner, despite what Acura dreams. And hell, you really have to push a car to get SH-AWD to make a difference. On the Nurburgring, absolutely. On the way to work or the golf course, no way in hell. I've tried. No American RL owner in history has provoked significant rear-outside-wheel torque vectoring around a corner. Aside from the press, the system is entirely unused in torque-vectoring form in the real world. If AWD is a sales necessity - which I'm not even sure it is in this application - then RealTime 4WD would do just fine. Lesson learned in the RDX.

The way I see it, a bland car that sells poorly is the ultimate shame. A bland car that sells well (ES) is acceptable. But if you're set on making a slow-selling car, as Acura seems to be, might as well throw caution to the wind and make it wild. They might just create a self-defeating prophecy. At the very least they'll keep their dignity and have some honest to goodness positive press, as opposed to having their "Flagship" torn down before it's even on sale.



Yeah the ZDX worked out well didn't it?

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 10:21
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notyper wrote:
Compare it to the ES350. Same engine style, driveline config, etc.

The ES is 400 lbs lighter. It has a wheelbase within 1" of the RLX, is 3" shorter, 3" narrower and about as tall. It has _more_ legroom, and 1" less hiproom, 3" less shoulder room.

Considering that the RLX has about same external dimensions as the previous AWD RL but weighs about the same, the phrase, "this thing is light", really doesn't apply. Especially so when you consider the weight savings associated with FWD vs. RWD/AWD.

SC



As long as we're comparing...the ES350 also has 42 fewer hp, is over a second slower to 60, doesn't have P-AWS, and by all accounts is rather a boring drive. Oh and the RLX, despite being bigger, heavier and quicker, is just as fuel efficient.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 11:44
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What part of the fact this is a thread about weight did you miss?

There's no big size or feature difference that should account for a 400+ lbs weight difference here. At least not enough of a difference that we can call the RLX _light_.

And BTW, the ES350 gets to 60 in 6 flat and the quarter mile in the low 14's at nearly 100 mph (motortrend). That's about as fast as the RLX will be in FWD form (less weight needs less hp) assuming it is similarly underrated as the Accord V6 6AT.

SC

iutodd wrote:

As long as we're comparing...the ES350 also has 42 fewer hp, is over a second slower to 60, doesn't have P-AWS, and by all accounts is rather a boring drive. Oh and the RLX, despite being bigger, heavier and quicker, is just as fuel efficient.



danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 12:05
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notyper wrote:
Irrelevant? Why, because you don't like the comparison?

They're both FWD luxury cars with 3.5 V6s, with overlapping price ranges, automatic only, and similar size.

This particular thread was started to assert that the RLX is _light_ for its size/class. The ES350 is an example illustrating that the RLX really isn't light.

Whatever else you may think, it's a valid comparison for this thread.

SC


No, because:
- I stated "given the increases in size and feature content, meaning, "for what it is" (a 50-60K luxury flagship), and I don't think the ES provides anything near the level of performance/features/comfort the RLX is aiming for. If it was only about "size" the TSX should've always been lighter than the Accord, yet I wouldn't compare those two because they sit too far away on the lineup. You may say the same regarding the RLX/LS comparison I made, that would be a fairer call (though as an LS owner I would argue back).
- This thread was started with no reference to the competition, but simply on my own expectations for this particular car given Honda's previous quotes and existing cars.
- You showed no interest on this (old) thread until I wrote something against one of yours elsewhere, and disregard my actual words to make your point, the combination of which leads me to believe (perhaps mistakenly) that this is more about some kind of personal battle than anything else.

Back on your comparison, for you "being FWD" may be a way of adequately categorizing cars, for me certainly it isn't, and I would guess that for anyone interested on the RLX it isn't either. For the rest, why bother looking at it to begin with? Let it be for those that can enjoy all the FWD benefits while giving away some advantages they could only see on a racetrack (according to Jeff; I have not driven it myself, have you?)

Bottom line, to me his point was perfectly valid and, contrary to yours, in line with the original topic ("for what this car is"), I sure wouldn't expect the RLX to be as light or lighter than the TL, and I don't think anyone should unless they were trying to make a personal point on an internet forum. Mind you, I sure hope the TLX will come up considerably lighter than the RLX. If not, I will be disappointed regardless of its exterior footprint.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 15:46
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Oh you are such a big baby daniel. I didn't comment on this thread until you started making comparisons to other makes and you ignored the elephant in the room - the ES350. You may have started without reference to the competition, but you did bring it in.

The rest of your post, you preening pedant, is b.s.

1. FWD comparisons are relevant because FWD drivelines are lighter. Not to mention that you argued the benefits of FWD as a means of boosting interior dimensions vs. the RWD Lexus cars _you_ brought up. Hypocrite much?

2. The ES350 is very close in external and internal dimensions to the RLX

3. The ES350 comes with a very similar feature set as the RLX. Most of those features are electronics based so should not add much weight, but the feature sets are close (lane departure, blind spot warning, radar cruise, park assist, Mark Levinson high end audio system, etc.). And, in fact, the ES comes with some optional features like the panoramic sunroof (which the RLX doesn't have) which add weight. So regardless of whether you consider the RLX a flagship or not, its size, configuration and feature set align it very closely with the ES350.

4. How the car drives is not relevant to this particular thread. I don't care for the ES350 in any way. But it is far and away the best seller in this class so if Acura is going to avoid going head to head with the Germans, they better keep an eye on cars like the ES.

In summary, if you want to look at "lightness", you have to make relevant comparisons. And the ES350 fits right into that. Or maybe you'd like to compare it to the Caddy XTS, something else that fits right into this class (hint, similar interior space, 6" longer, 70 lbs heavier - still want to say the RLX is light)? Sure as hell no one will be cross-shopping a FWD RLX with an LS460, unless they're a Honda fanboy, eh?

What would you like to whine about next swampy?

SC

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-18-2013 18:31
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LxWxH (in) / weight (lbs)
- RLX : 196.1 x 74.4 x 57.7 / 3,933 lbs
- ES350 : 192.7 x 71.7 x 57.1 / 3,549 lbs
- 4G TL FWd: 194 x 74 x 57.2 / 3,726 lbs

LegRoom (F/R/Combined)
- RLX: 42.3 / 38.8 / 81.1
- ES350: 41.9 / 40 / 81.9
- 4G TL FWd: 42.5 / 36.2 / 78.7

HipRoom (F/R/Combined)
- RLX: 55.9 / 54.5 / 110.4
- ES350: 54.8 / 53.8 / 108.6
- 4G TL FWd: 55.7 / 54.8 / 110.5

Shoulder (F/R/Added)
- RLX: 59.6 / 57.0 / 116.6
- ES350: 57.6 / 55 / 112.6
- 4G TL FWd 58.2 / 56.2 / 114.4

I'd say the dimensions are close but the RLX is noticeably bigger for the most part than the ES. The current TL is actually closer in size to the RLX than the ES. I'm guessing the next gen TL (TLX) will be made considerably smaller to avoid cannibalization between the two.

I wouldn't say the RLX is especially light. I can understand the extra weight is probably coming from additional features, extra structural rigidity (I'd imagine the RLX to do very well in the small overlap crash test like the Accord, and the ES350 to do poorly like the new Camry), better sound insulation, AWS, etc. I would call the RLX light if it's as heavy as the TL FWD but with all the additional goodies.




VTECRacer
Profile for VTECRacer
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 18:08
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Forcibly comparing two cars together just because they share the same drivetrain layout and engine size is just silly.

There is so much more to the weight comparison than just their overall length. Aside for the RLX being almost 3.5 inches longer than the ES, it more than half an inch taller, and more than 3 inches wider. The width of the car alone can add substantial weight because that's added mass that goes along the length of the entire car, and not just the ends. The RLX is substantially larger than the ES350 in all exterior measurements. I wonder how much extra weight gets added to the RLX from the extra sound-deadening material needed over the ES to match its greater size?

What about rims? The base RLX comes with 18's while the ES comes with 17's. Rim width adds weight along with the larger tires needed. And the ES interior is a joke. Almost the entire center console and lower-half of the dash and doors are just hard-to-the-touch plastic. All that plastic can add up to significantly less weight than the RLX's all-soft interior.

Again, there is so much more to the weight of a car than just powertrain and length. Only a fanboy would argue otherwise.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-19-2013 19:50
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Oh here we go, more pedantry.

It's not "just because they share drivertrain and engine size", fruitloop, it's because they're both similarly sized 4 door luxury sedans from competing marques with the same driveline configuration and a very similar feature set, based upon a chassis from a lower line corporate platform. How else shall we make comparisons? By the designer's birthdates? Or maybe only of the first and last character of their names matches? Enlighten me on a better way.

Simple question. Is the RLX light as this thread asserts, or is it not? Relevant to cars of similar size and purpose, it's not. It's a little bigger than the ES350, it's a little smaller than the Caddy XTS (XTS is 6" longer, 2" taller, 2" narrower, same wheelbase, more headroom, legroom, same hiproom, less shoulderoom). It weighs 400+ lbs more than the ES350 and 70 lbs less than the Caddy. In relationship to those vehicles, it ain't light. At best, it's right where it should be. Unless every car is light. Just like every kid is a winner and last place gets a trophy too.....no losers here.

SC

Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-20-2013 03:32
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I think soft plastics inside won't really be the issue, but the beefing of safety structures. The ES failed that new front overlap crash test while the new accord did really well. I suppose the old accord front had to be enhanced to meet the same standard in the rlx.

VTECRacer
Profile for VTECRacer
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2013 14:30
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notyper wrote:
Oh here we go, more pedantry.

It's not "just because they share drivertrain and engine size", fruitloop, it's because they're both similarly sized 4 door luxury sedans from competing marques with the same driveline configuration and a very similar feature set, based upon a chassis from a lower line corporate platform. How else shall we make comparisons? By the designer's birthdates? Or maybe only of the first and last character of their names matches? Enlighten me on a better way.

Simple question. Is the RLX light as this thread asserts, or is it not? Relevant to cars of similar size and purpose, it's not. It's a little bigger than the ES350, it's a little smaller than the Caddy XTS (XTS is 6" longer, 2" taller, 2" narrower, same wheelbase, more headroom, legroom, same hiproom, less shoulderoom). It weighs 400+ lbs more than the ES350 and 70 lbs less than the Caddy. In relationship to those vehicles, it ain't light. At best, it's right where it should be. Unless every car is light. Just like every kid is a winner and last place gets a trophy too.....no losers here.

SC



You know, you can make a post for once without calling someone a name. Or can you? As a "moderator", you set a horrible example and create the setting for a hostile environment. Debate without douching.

The only similarity the ES and the RLX have is their drivetrain. Who cares where the two chassis originated from. An RLX is more similar in size to a LS460 than it is an ES350. You're basically dismissing the cars in the mid-luxury segment that the RLX competes in only because of their drivetrain layout. It doesn't matter. For what the RLX provides and consists of, on the surface and below, it is a light car. Look at the Lincoln MKS as an example. It's pretty much a head-on competitor to the RLX specs wise, but the thing weighs in at over 4,200 lbs and doesn't have anywhere near the standard equipment an RLX does. It jumps to nearly, 4,500 lbs for the ecoboost motor.

The RLX and ES have as much in common as a Dodge Charger and an Infinity G37 do.


superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2013 18:43
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notyper wrote:
Oh here we go, more pedantry.

It's not "just because they share drivertrain and engine size", fruitloop, it's because they're both similarly sized 4 door luxury sedans from competing marques with the same driveline configuration and a very similar feature set, based upon a chassis from a lower line corporate platform. How else shall we make comparisons? By the designer's birthdates? Or maybe only of the first and last character of their names matches? Enlighten me on a better way.

Simple question. Is the RLX light as this thread asserts, or is it not? Relevant to cars of similar size and purpose, it's not. It's a little bigger than the ES350, it's a little smaller than the Caddy XTS (XTS is 6" longer, 2" taller, 2" narrower, same wheelbase, more headroom, legroom, same hiproom, less shoulderoom). It weighs 400+ lbs more than the ES350 and 70 lbs less than the Caddy. In relationship to those vehicles, it ain't light. At best, it's right where it should be. Unless every car is light. Just like every kid is a winner and last place gets a trophy too.....no losers here.

SC




notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2013 19:35
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VTECRacer wrote:
You know, you can make a post for once without calling someone a name. Or can you? As a "moderator", you set a horrible example and create the setting for a hostile environment. Debate without douching.

The only similarity the ES and the RLX have is their drivetrain. Who cares where the two chassis originated from. An RLX is more similar in size to a LS460 than it is an ES350. You're basically dismissing the cars in the mid-luxury segment that the RLX competes in only because of their drivetrain layout. It doesn't matter. For what the RLX provides and consists of, on the surface and below, it is a light car. Look at the Lincoln MKS as an example. It's pretty much a head-on competitor to the RLX specs wise, but the thing weighs in at over 4,200 lbs and doesn't have anywhere near the standard equipment an RLX does. It jumps to nearly, 4,500 lbs for the ecoboost motor.

The RLX and ES have as much in common as a Dodge Charger and an Infinity G37 do.




Wow, denial runs strong in you. It's only debate if you acknowledge facts. If not, its open season. And you have a serious problem acknowledging facts (attempting to dismiss the ES for one). That you'd attempt to dissemble by bringing in the MKS, which is 10" longer and 4" taller (and 250 lbs heavier) than the RLX to assert that the latter is light, well, if you can't see how screwed up your logic is, you're beyond help.

But, I'm a sucker for lost causes, so let's try. The FWD MKS is 10" longer, 4" taller, same width as the RLX. It's about 7% heavier (it also has 7 cu ft more total interior room than the RLX - as you'd expect).

The ES350 is 3" shorter, 3" narrower and the same height as the RLX and it's 10% lighter. Interior space differences have been noted.

The Caddy XTS is 6" longer, 2" taller, 2" narrower and 2% heavier. Interior space differences have been noted.

So given the spectrum out there of V6 FWD luxury brand cars of similar size that all overlap the $50k price point, tell me in what way you can make any such assertion that the RLX is particularly light or space efficient relative to the competition. Are all these cars light for their size? Or is the RLX just average in this aspect? Personally, I think if you're going to pursue this avenue, you could make a better case that the MKS is light (not that I am).

C'mon, give me an answer..........

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-27-2013 13:13
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To be fair, when it comes to interior dimensions, the ES350 is comparable to FWD luxury cars such as XTS, Audi A6, MKS, and S80. Yet the ES350 is a good ~500lb lighter than most of the above. Obviously the ES350 is quite a bit cheaper than the above.
Honda-D
Profile for Honda-D
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-27-2013 22:21
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I think the irony of the title is that a 3900lb FWD is "light".

SH-AWD on TL adds 240lbs.

Quattro on A6 adds 170lbs

So if RLX has last gen SH-AWD, it would be 4140lbs, similar to old RL. That means Acura has not done much to lose weight.

Now eSH-AWD (or SHSH-AWD) adds basically 2 electric motors and a battery. Now I'm just assuming 2 motors, 1 per wheel to minimize lost to drive train and maximize torque vectoring. If they rip the parts from Civic Hybrid, that's 40lbs per motor and 50lbs for the battery. So eSH-AWD should add around 130lbs.

So this will tip the scale at 4030lbs, 15lbs less than A6 3.0T Quattro. Quite competitive IMO.


VTECRacer
Profile for VTECRacer
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-02-2013 15:21
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notyper wrote:
VTECRacer wrote:
You know, you can make a post for once without calling someone a name. Or can you? As a "moderator", you set a horrible example and create the setting for a hostile environment. Debate without douching.

The only similarity the ES and the RLX have is their drivetrain. Who cares where the two chassis originated from. An RLX is more similar in size to a LS460 than it is an ES350. You're basically dismissing the cars in the mid-luxury segment that the RLX competes in only because of their drivetrain layout. It doesn't matter. For what the RLX provides and consists of, on the surface and below, it is a light car. Look at the Lincoln MKS as an example. It's pretty much a head-on competitor to the RLX specs wise, but the thing weighs in at over 4,200 lbs and doesn't have anywhere near the standard equipment an RLX does. It jumps to nearly, 4,500 lbs for the ecoboost motor.

The RLX and ES have as much in common as a Dodge Charger and an Infinity G37 do.




Wow, denial runs strong in you. It's only debate if you acknowledge facts. If not, its open season. And you have a serious problem acknowledging facts (attempting to dismiss the ES for one). That you'd attempt to dissemble by bringing in the MKS, which is 10" longer and 4" taller (and 250 lbs heavier) than the RLX to assert that the latter is light, well, if you can't see how screwed up your logic is, you're beyond help.

But, I'm a sucker for lost causes, so let's try. The FWD MKS is 10" longer, 4" taller, same width as the RLX. It's about 7% heavier (it also has 7 cu ft more total interior room than the RLX - as you'd expect).

The ES350 is 3" shorter, 3" narrower and the same height as the RLX and it's 10% lighter. Interior space differences have been noted.

The Caddy XTS is 6" longer, 2" taller, 2" narrower and 2% heavier. Interior space differences have been noted.

So given the spectrum out there of V6 FWD luxury brand cars of similar size that all overlap the $50k price point, tell me in what way you can make any such assertion that the RLX is particularly light or space efficient relative to the competition. Are all these cars light for their size? Or is the RLX just average in this aspect? Personally, I think if you're going to pursue this avenue, you could make a better case that the MKS is light (not that I am).

C'mon, give me an answer..........



I'm not denying facts, I'm just trying to get you to understand that the RLX has more in common with its actual competitors than the Lexus ES you're trying to put it up against.

Of the three cars compared, you continue to dismiss the fact about how much weight is affected by width, rather than length. Increasing the width of a car (which should also be reflected in the interior) adds substantially more weight than increasing the length of a car. The front and rear of cars have the most dead space and all the cars discussed are no exception. For example, the post-MMC TL lost 1.5 inches in overall length, yet it gained weight.

There is more to a cars weight than you are allowing yourself to see, and probably already know, but aren't publicly acknowledging. You've also dismissed the differences in wheel and tire sizes, the quantity of sound-deadening material, the structural strength and integrity, the varied use of materials, etc... Do you think the ES and RLX are equal in these areas? You'd only be kidding yourself if you did.

I'm not asserting that the RLX is a featherweight competing in a heavyweight class. It's heavy compared to most cars, but not compared to cars in its class. And interior space wise the car is efficient. If you look at the interior size and overall length of other cars in the RL's class, it does quite well. At this point, neither of us can compare whether the RLX is more efficient with its use of space or the ES because we don't know the trunk size of the RLX and how much was sacrificed for rear legroom. Either way, it is efficient, especially compared to the Cadillac and Lincoln (which is a joke when you consider how much longer it is than the RLX).

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: This thing is light [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-04-2013 18:28
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Hmm, I see you wrote that the RLX is "not heavy" compared to cars in its class. That's ducking the question. Is it _light_ compared to cars in its class, cars of similar purpose, whatever? Remember, that's what's in the thread title. "This thing is light".

And the answer is, no, it is not light. By no stretch of the imagination is this car light. Average? Perhaps. But not light. Even if you want to play the multiplication game, it should be no more than 10% heavier than the ES350 based upon size measurements. X*Y*Z.

SC


 
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