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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion

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tegx2
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Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2013 01:22
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I am just killing time this evening and thought I'd post a discussion thread with some rambling thoughts about my car history. I'm currently seperated from Honda/Acura, but really hoping for a reunion. When will they get there packaging right?

I've been a Honda fan since before I started driving. I was in love with my aunt's '92 Integra and then '94 Legend. However, it wouldn't be until '98 when I would get my first Honda - a used '96 Integra RS. Until early '11, I always had a Honda in my garage. All of them were fun to drive, thrifty, and made well.

In early '11 though, I was ready for a bit of an upgrade. My career started doing well, I finally purchased a place, and I just wanted something a little more than a Civic. I have always been a fan of the TSX and TL and was headed in that direction. But, I learned with the purchase of my '06 Scion tC (which I still have) that there are other cars out there and I went shopping.

My first stop was the Acura dealer. I drove a new 4-cylinder and a used 6-cylinder TSX. The 4-cylinder just didn't have the pep and the 6-cylinder wasn't the right color combo and was a '10. I really wanted the '11 to take advantage of some of the upgrades Acura had done. I was willing to wait, but the problem was that there wasn't a V6 TSX with Nav in the entire state of CA and there wasn't one in sight. So, off I went. I looked at the Audi A4, the Buick Regal (that's a whole other rambling story), and finally the VW CC. I had discounted the TL because of the beak and the Accord sedans because of the bug eyes. Not to mention that both cars have gotten huge.

I ended up with a '12 VW CC Lux Plus. I had loved the look of the CC since it came out and one of my good friends has had good luck with VW so I decided to take a chance. To be safe, I did a 24-month lease so I didn't have to put any money into the car and I could drop it if I didn't like it or if it looked like it would be a money pit. I had some typical VW/German problems, but drove the car for 20-months mostly problem free. The 2.0T was a great engine and I loved the DSG. The handling of the CC was a little soft and the ride is hard to explain. If it weren't for a nagging significant other and my ADD for cars, I might still have it.

Alas, the VW dealer did an early buy-out of the lease for year end inventory and I went shopping again. This was another chance in 2 years for me to get back into the Honda family. I wasn't really sure what I wanted this time around though. My requirements were just that the car handle better than the CC and be a little more fun as well as have some of the creature comforts that I had become accustomed. I test drove a VW GTI, a TSX special edition, a TSX - Tech, a V6 Accord EX-L Nav., a 2013 BWM 328i sedan and ultimately ended up with a 2012 328i convertible. If you want to know how that happened, just ask.

But, my point to all of this rambling is that of the few Hondas that weren't SUVs that I wanted to look at, none of them were packaged in a way that I wanted to buy. Save for the 2013 Accord. Honda has hit a home run with this car and it's still on the list to replace the Scion as the practical car since we went with an impractical, but fun car, to replace the CC.

If the 6-speed TSX special edition came with nav, there's a high liklihood it might be parked in my garage.

If the ILX 6-speed came with the tech package, I might have looked at it.

If the ILX came with the 2.4 standard, I might have looked at it.

And I really wish the Accord came with a manual and tech package or a normal transmission on the 4-cylinder. Or even just put a sunroof on the sport.

Nothing new in this post that hasn't been discussed before, just my rambling thoughts. I've always appreciated Honda and would like to give them another shot, but the packaging is just wacky these days.

RHalabi
Profile for RHalabi
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2013 04:01
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tegx2 wrote:
I am just killing time this evening and thought I'd post a discussion thread with some rambling thoughts about my car history. I'm currently seperated from Honda/Acura, but really hoping for a reunion. When will they get there packaging right?

I've been a Honda fan since before I started driving. I was in love with my aunt's '92 Integra and then '94 Legend. However, it wouldn't be until '98 when I would get my first Honda - a used '96 Integra RS. Until early '11, I always had a Honda in my garage. All of them were fun to drive, thrifty, and made well.

In early '11 though, I was ready for a bit of an upgrade. My career started doing well, I finally purchased a place, and I just wanted something a little more than a Civic. I have always been a fan of the TSX and TL and was headed in that direction. But, I learned with the purchase of my '06 Scion tC (which I still have) that there are other cars out there and I went shopping.

My first stop was the Acura dealer. I drove a new 4-cylinder and a used 6-cylinder TSX. The 4-cylinder just didn't have the pep and the 6-cylinder wasn't the right color combo and was a '10. I really wanted the '11 to take advantage of some of the upgrades Acura had done. I was willing to wait, but the problem was that there wasn't a V6 TSX with Nav in the entire state of CA and there wasn't one in sight. So, off I went. I looked at the Audi A4, the Buick Regal (that's a whole other rambling story), and finally the VW CC. I had discounted the TL because of the beak and the Accord sedans because of the bug eyes. Not to mention that both cars have gotten huge.

I ended up with a '12 VW CC Lux Plus. I had loved the look of the CC since it came out and one of my good friends has had good luck with VW so I decided to take a chance. To be safe, I did a 24-month lease so I didn't have to put any money into the car and I could drop it if I didn't like it or if it looked like it would be a money pit. I had some typical VW/German problems, but drove the car for 20-months mostly problem free. The 2.0T was a great engine and I loved the DSG. The handling of the CC was a little soft and the ride is hard to explain. If it weren't for a nagging significant other and my ADD for cars, I might still have it.

Alas, the VW dealer did an early buy-out of the lease for year end inventory and I went shopping again. This was another chance in 2 years for me to get back into the Honda family. I wasn't really sure what I wanted this time around though. My requirements were just that the car handle better than the CC and be a little more fun as well as have some of the creature comforts that I had become accustomed. I test drove a VW GTI, a TSX special edition, a TSX - Tech, a V6 Accord EX-L Nav., a 2013 BWM 328i sedan and ultimately ended up with a 2012 328i convertible. If you want to know how that happened, just ask.

But, my point to all of this rambling is that of the few Hondas that weren't SUVs that I wanted to look at, none of them were packaged in a way that I wanted to buy. Save for the 2013 Accord. Honda has hit a home run with this car and it's still on the list to replace the Scion as the practical car since we went with an impractical, but fun car, to replace the CC.

If the 6-speed TSX special edition came with nav, there's a high liklihood it might be parked in my garage.

If the ILX 6-speed came with the tech package, I might have looked at it.

If the ILX came with the 2.4 standard, I might have looked at it.

And I really wish the Accord came with a manual and tech package or a normal transmission on the 4-cylinder. Or even just put a sunroof on the sport.

Nothing new in this post that hasn't been discussed before, just my rambling thoughts. I've always appreciated Honda and would like to give them another shot, but the packaging is just wacky these days.



You can get a fully loaded ex-L touring sedan 6mt in canada and ship it down to the states.

But yes your complaints are common among Honda fans and I'm sure Honda knows this well. But sales from enthusiasts are probably below 5% and the loss for retooling or whatever out weighs it. I wish Honda would take more MONEY loss's for their fans. Just a bit more times.

I really want the v6 touring sedan with a 6mt. like really really!


ciochete
Profile for ciochete
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2013 10:27
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RHalabi wrote:
tegx2 wrote:
I am just killing time this evening and thought I'd post a discussion thread with some rambling thoughts about my car history. I'm currently seperated from Honda/Acura, but really hoping for a reunion. When will they get there packaging right?

I've been a Honda fan since before I started driving. I was in love with my aunt's '92 Integra and then '94 Legend. However, it wouldn't be until '98 when I would get my first Honda - a used '96 Integra RS. Until early '11, I always had a Honda in my garage. All of them were fun to drive, thrifty, and made well.

In early '11 though, I was ready for a bit of an upgrade. My career started doing well, I finally purchased a place, and I just wanted something a little more than a Civic. I have always been a fan of the TSX and TL and was headed in that direction. But, I learned with the purchase of my '06 Scion tC (which I still have) that there are other cars out there and I went shopping.

My first stop was the Acura dealer. I drove a new 4-cylinder and a used 6-cylinder TSX. The 4-cylinder just didn't have the pep and the 6-cylinder wasn't the right color combo and was a '10. I really wanted the '11 to take advantage of some of the upgrades Acura had done. I was willing to wait, but the problem was that there wasn't a V6 TSX with Nav in the entire state of CA and there wasn't one in sight. So, off I went. I looked at the Audi A4, the Buick Regal (that's a whole other rambling story), and finally the VW CC. I had discounted the TL because of the beak and the Accord sedans because of the bug eyes. Not to mention that both cars have gotten huge.

I ended up with a '12 VW CC Lux Plus. I had loved the look of the CC since it came out and one of my good friends has had good luck with VW so I decided to take a chance. To be safe, I did a 24-month lease so I didn't have to put any money into the car and I could drop it if I didn't like it or if it looked like it would be a money pit. I had some typical VW/German problems, but drove the car for 20-months mostly problem free. The 2.0T was a great engine and I loved the DSG. The handling of the CC was a little soft and the ride is hard to explain. If it weren't for a nagging significant other and my ADD for cars, I might still have it.

Alas, the VW dealer did an early buy-out of the lease for year end inventory and I went shopping again. This was another chance in 2 years for me to get back into the Honda family. I wasn't really sure what I wanted this time around though. My requirements were just that the car handle better than the CC and be a little more fun as well as have some of the creature comforts that I had become accustomed. I test drove a VW GTI, a TSX special edition, a TSX - Tech, a V6 Accord EX-L Nav., a 2013 BWM 328i sedan and ultimately ended up with a 2012 328i convertible. If you want to know how that happened, just ask.

But, my point to all of this rambling is that of the few Hondas that weren't SUVs that I wanted to look at, none of them were packaged in a way that I wanted to buy. Save for the 2013 Accord. Honda has hit a home run with this car and it's still on the list to replace the Scion as the practical car since we went with an impractical, but fun car, to replace the CC.

If the 6-speed TSX special edition came with nav, there's a high liklihood it might be parked in my garage.

If the ILX 6-speed came with the tech package, I might have looked at it.

If the ILX came with the 2.4 standard, I might have looked at it.

And I really wish the Accord came with a manual and tech package or a normal transmission on the 4-cylinder. Or even just put a sunroof on the sport.

Nothing new in this post that hasn't been discussed before, just my rambling thoughts. I've always appreciated Honda and would like to give them another shot, but the packaging is just wacky these days.



You can get a fully loaded ex-L touring sedan 6mt in canada and ship it down to the states.

But yes your complaints are common among Honda fans and I'm sure Honda knows this well. But sales from enthusiasts are probably below 5% and the loss for retooling or whatever out weighs it. I wish Honda would take more MONEY loss's for their fans. Just a bit more times.

I really want the v6 touring sedan with a 6mt. like really really!





Hello RHalabi - you've mentioned that you had some "typical" VW problems with the CC. Would you please explain what the problems were? I am too trying to make up my mind about my next car.

At the moment, I'm all over the place when it comes to choosing a car, but I would like to stick with Honda (2000 Accord LX driving currently), as they are trully great quality cars, but just like you, I see the Honda "packaging issues", to say the least. Were the problems mechanical, did you get stranded on a highway somewhere?

Also, how's the bimmer? Any problems with it? I can see myself driving one too.

thanks,

ciochete

tegx2
Profile for tegx2
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2013 11:59
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That's nice to know that you can get a EX-L touring sedan 6mt in Canada and ship it down. It's nice to have options...

It would be nice to see model breakdowns by transmission type. Likewise for different technologies that get added to cars.

Honda can make crazy decisions like producing, marketing, and sort of selling the ZDX, CR-Z, Crosstour. For 2012, I took the December 2012 YTD numbers for each of those models divided by total sales of 1,422,785 for American Honda. ZDX = .05%, CR-Z = .29%, Crosstour = 1.5%.

But, they can't package pillar models in a way that would appeal to more buyers?

For example, if they increased Accord sales by just 1%, (331,872 *.01=3,318,72) that would be a .23% sales increase for Honda. That's almost as much as a full model, the CR-Z and more than another. I don't know if I can buy the argument that the cost of simply offering a package and transmission choice outweighs the benefit.

tegx2
Profile for tegx2
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2013 12:10
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I had mentioned that I had some problems with my CC. Nothing left me stranded though. While it's certainly possible, I don't think there are many cars that will leave you stranded these days.

Problems with the CC included a broken relay for the gas gauge that caused it to read inaccurately. This was apparent in the first 2 weeks of ownership and was remedied.

I had the DSG transmission serviced 2 times, both software related. The first time was a software refresh that the dealer performed and I didn't ask for. The second was a re-flash of the software to fix the first refresh.

Other problems were quirky electronics. I will say that they electronics always worked, they just might not work the same way or with the same responsiveness from day to day. I had the RNS 510 in the CC and it was painfully slow. The RNS 315 that comes in lower model VWs is a much better and more responsive system.

I've only had the Bimmer for a month and it's been problem free so far. It's a dream to drive and I expect to have some issues, but that was a tradeoff I was willing to make.

My opinion is that anything mechanical or electrical will always have some sort of problem at some phase. Cars these days all have them, even Honda and Toyota. With that in mind, I think auto manufacturers should be looking for the most ways to appeal to the most buyers and I'm afraid Honda is falling a bit short.

xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2013 14:05
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2012 328i convertible? How did you go from the sedans to that lol? Why not the 2013 Accord Coupe EX-L V6 Nav 6MT? It seems like a great package for people who do not need the extra 2 doors.
tegx2
Profile for tegx2
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-05-2013 22:01
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It was actually one of the more impulsive car buying decisions I've made.

We've been discussing getting a convertible for a while and almost bought a 328i convertible when I leased my CC back in March of '11. However, I'm pretty practical and want my cars to do more than just carry me to and from work. Hence, that's the reason that I was looking at the cars that I was. They all had an element of fun, but would be comfortable for road trips and carting around friends or what have you.

When I went to drive the 2013 BMW 328i sedan, which I actually wasn't sold on, we happened upon the convertible that fit the bill. Silver exterior/black interior, M Sport package, premium package, navigation, cold weather package...pretty much everything we wanted. I decided the '06 Scion is practical enough for the time being. It's at 111,000 miles right now and still going strong, but we'll replace it with the practical time comes. It very well could be the Accord since it's the strongest option Honda has for me.

Rgist85
Profile for Rgist85
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-06-2013 00:37
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tegx2 wrote:
That's nice to know that you can get a EX-L touring sedan 6mt in Canada and ship it down. It's nice to have options...

It would be nice to see model breakdowns by transmission type. Likewise for different technologies that get added to cars.

Honda can make crazy decisions like producing, marketing, and sort of selling the ZDX, CR-Z, Crosstour. For 2012, I took the December 2012 YTD numbers for each of those models divided by total sales of 1,422,785 for American Honda. ZDX = .05%, CR-Z = .29%, Crosstour = 1.5%.

But, they can't package pillar models in a way that would appeal to more buyers?

For example, if they increased Accord sales by just 1%, (331,872 *.01=3,318,72) that would be a .23% sales increase for Honda. That's almost as much as a full model, the CR-Z and more than another. I don't know if I can buy the argument that the cost of simply offering a package and transmission choice outweighs the benefit.



Story of my life. It's totally frustrating when you want to buy a product from an automaker, a product of which you've brought in the past but the automaker feels they no longer need to make that product because of lower sells..yet you see products that don't sell, products that are totally stupid, useless and a waste of resources and it makes you angry.

The CR-Z, Insight, Ridgeline, ZDX and RL have been a drain on resources, a total waste of development and total flops and failures. I do believe that the ILX can be fixed, Honda manged to turn the Civic around afterall.

But its absolutely stupid to me that Honda has no FR-S fighter, no S2000 replacement, a neutered SI and absolutely nothing exciting in the lineup. I get tired of hearing people say that manual transmissions don't sell well on Accords, when Honda and Acura have wasted so much money on cars that do not sell well at all. What would it REALLY cost Honda to offer a handful of us some of the options available to Canadian buyers? Afterall, our market is MUCH larger than Canada's, yet they get a greater variety of trim levels, transmission choices and color choices than we do.

I am NOT going to go over into Canada and purchase an Accord Touring 6MT, pay MSRP (after the broker gets his cut) and void my warranty for a car Honda ought to already be offering to those of us who'd want it. We should simply be able to order the same cars that are available to our Canadian friends.

It's the packaging that has kept me from pulling the trigger too. I keep going back and forth between an Accord EX and a Ford Focus Titanium...I just cannot bring myself to go for the Accord EX, its bland wheel choices, spartan cloth interior and lack of equipment compared to my 07 would be a downgrade in my view.

Rgist85
Profile for Rgist85
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-06-2013 01:02
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RHalabi wrote:
tegx2 wrote:
I am just killing time this evening and thought I'd post a discussion thread with some rambling thoughts about my car history. I'm currently seperated from Honda/Acura, but really hoping for a reunion. When will they get there packaging right?

I've been a Honda fan since before I started driving. I was in love with my aunt's '92 Integra and then '94 Legend. However, it wouldn't be until '98 when I would get my first Honda - a used '96 Integra RS. Until early '11, I always had a Honda in my garage. All of them were fun to drive, thrifty, and made well.

In early '11 though, I was ready for a bit of an upgrade. My career started doing well, I finally purchased a place, and I just wanted something a little more than a Civic. I have always been a fan of the TSX and TL and was headed in that direction. But, I learned with the purchase of my '06 Scion tC (which I still have) that there are other cars out there and I went shopping.

My first stop was the Acura dealer. I drove a new 4-cylinder and a used 6-cylinder TSX. The 4-cylinder just didn't have the pep and the 6-cylinder wasn't the right color combo and was a '10. I really wanted the '11 to take advantage of some of the upgrades Acura had done. I was willing to wait, but the problem was that there wasn't a V6 TSX with Nav in the entire state of CA and there wasn't one in sight. So, off I went. I looked at the Audi A4, the Buick Regal (that's a whole other rambling story), and finally the VW CC. I had discounted the TL because of the beak and the Accord sedans because of the bug eyes. Not to mention that both cars have gotten huge.

I ended up with a '12 VW CC Lux Plus. I had loved the look of the CC since it came out and one of my good friends has had good luck with VW so I decided to take a chance. To be safe, I did a 24-month lease so I didn't have to put any money into the car and I could drop it if I didn't like it or if it looked like it would be a money pit. I had some typical VW/German problems, but drove the car for 20-months mostly problem free. The 2.0T was a great engine and I loved the DSG. The handling of the CC was a little soft and the ride is hard to explain. If it weren't for a nagging significant other and my ADD for cars, I might still have it.

Alas, the VW dealer did an early buy-out of the lease for year end inventory and I went shopping again. This was another chance in 2 years for me to get back into the Honda family. I wasn't really sure what I wanted this time around though. My requirements were just that the car handle better than the CC and be a little more fun as well as have some of the creature comforts that I had become accustomed. I test drove a VW GTI, a TSX special edition, a TSX - Tech, a V6 Accord EX-L Nav., a 2013 BWM 328i sedan and ultimately ended up with a 2012 328i convertible. If you want to know how that happened, just ask.

But, my point to all of this rambling is that of the few Hondas that weren't SUVs that I wanted to look at, none of them were packaged in a way that I wanted to buy. Save for the 2013 Accord. Honda has hit a home run with this car and it's still on the list to replace the Scion as the practical car since we went with an impractical, but fun car, to replace the CC.

If the 6-speed TSX special edition came with nav, there's a high liklihood it might be parked in my garage.

If the ILX 6-speed came with the tech package, I might have looked at it.

If the ILX came with the 2.4 standard, I might have looked at it.

And I really wish the Accord came with a manual and tech package or a normal transmission on the 4-cylinder. Or even just put a sunroof on the sport.

Nothing new in this post that hasn't been discussed before, just my rambling thoughts. I've always appreciated Honda and would like to give them another shot, but the packaging is just wacky these days.



You can get a fully loaded ex-L touring sedan 6mt in canada and ship it down to the states.

But yes your complaints are common among Honda fans and I'm sure Honda knows this well. But sales from enthusiasts are probably below 5% and the loss for retooling or whatever out weighs it. I wish Honda would take more MONEY loss's for their fans. Just a bit more times.

I really want the v6 touring sedan with a 6mt. like really really!





Cost of retooling what exactly? The same cars for Canada are made in the same plant as the U.S. models.

Honda should do like Ford does with the new Fusion. Offer higher trim levels with the manual (since its already available on the LX, EX and Sport) but make it an customer order only type deal. Perhaps the touring will be expanded once the TSX is dead anyway.

Rgist85
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Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-06-2013 01:05
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Something else I don't is this...I think about 23K Accords are sold in Canada each year, if 30 percent of those Accords were manuals (that's a HIGH number) and 3 percent of our Accords were manuals (that's probably about right) that would equal 6900 manual Accords per year in Canada verses 9360 manual Accords in the US, we still buy more manuals as a whole in this country than they do in Canada, it boggles my damn mind.
jshaw
Profile for jshaw
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-06-2013 04:16
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Rgist85 wrote:
Something else I don't is this...I think about 23K Accords are sold in Canada each year, if 30 percent of those Accords were manuals (that's a HIGH number) and 3 percent of our Accords were manuals (that's probably about right) that would equal 6900 manual Accords per year in Canada verses 9360 manual Accords in the US, we still buy more manuals as a whole in this country than they do in Canada, it boggles my damn mind.

How many of those manuals in the US vs Canada were high trim cars, however? Anyhow, the take rate alone, would likely scare most dealers in the US from ordering them. We may buy more manuals as a whole, but not per dealer. Unless if Honda is willing to do a semi-special order type deal (batches of 30?), similar to the 7G V6 sedan MT.

jshaw
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Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-06-2013 04:20
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I forgot to mention, the TL (yeah, beak and all), does have a 6MT option, and it comes only with the tech package (navi), and SH-AWD. No lower, but also no higher (advance package, with ventilated seats and blind spot... not available).
xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-06-2013 10:41
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Honda should be like Rolls Royce. But seriously, if you have not been to their "build a car" features on their website, you should go try it out. It literally gives you a color pallet, and you can choose ridiculous colors like pink and orange. Want stripes with you signature in them? No problem!

But Honda really should free-up their manual/color/trim combinations for the US. It's bullshit that if you want a manual, you are limited to the 3 lower trims and only like 2 colors for each, whereas the SAME plant is sending multi-colored manual Touring models to Canada.

Not comparing the car, but the Chrysler has it right with the Dodge Dart. Any trim you want, any color, and your choice of a manual or automatic.

Rgist85
Profile for Rgist85
Re: Seperated from Honda, but really hoping for a reunion    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-06-2013 21:29
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jshaw wrote:
Rgist85 wrote:
Something else I don't is this...I think about 23K Accords are sold in Canada each year, if 30 percent of those Accords were manuals (that's a HIGH number) and 3 percent of our Accords were manuals (that's probably about right) that would equal 6900 manual Accords per year in Canada verses 9360 manual Accords in the US, we still buy more manuals as a whole in this country than they do in Canada, it boggles my damn mind.

How many of those manuals in the US vs Canada were high trim cars, however? Anyhow, the take rate alone, would likely scare most dealers in the US from ordering them. We may buy more manuals as a whole, but not per dealer. Unless if Honda is willing to do a semi-special order type deal (batches of 30?), similar to the 7G V6 sedan MT.



Honda could keep the dealer allocation of lower trim level manual models as is. LX, Sport, EX, BUT they could allow customers to order Touring or EX-L models with 6MT as Ford does with the Fusion. You won't go onto a Ford lot and find a Fusion SE 1.6t 6MT, but you can order one. That's the point I'm making. If they are already built and building for Canada, why not just make them order only for those of us who might want them in the states? That way no dealer is getting stuck with higher trim levels that don't supposedly sell and we can still get the cars we want.

I've read too many folks on her, on Caranddriver, Motortrend, DriveAccord and others complain about Honda's packaging. Lots of folks like the Sport but think its equipped to low, they want the Sport's look with the EX and EX-Ls equipment levels (you know, how Toyota does with the Camry SE) I've seen about four former EX-L manual buyers on DriveAccord who've had to go with EX models for the manual because they didn't want an EX-L and its mandatory CVT, and many of them were multi generation repeat EX-L manual buyers.

It surely wouldn't cost Honda much money to offer a few more trims, color choices and transmission options. Toyota has muliple trim levels with mulitple options available and makes a pretty good profit on the Camry. Ditto Nissan and everybody else. If they can waste resources on stupid products like the CR-Z, Ridgeline, ZDX and RL, they can be more flexible for loyal customers.


 
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