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TOV Forums > RL / Legend > > Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)

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iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 10:34
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notyper wrote:
No offense iutodd, but based upon your post, I don't think you understand the purpose of a halo vehicle.

A halo vehicle does several things:

1) Gets people talking about the brand. It's a car that people look at in a magazine or driving down the street and think/say, "Oh, wow, that's one of those model X's. What a beautiful car." Or, "I heard that car is the fastest car in its class." Or, "That car lapped the Nurburgring in 7:19." Or, "It has a motor that revs to 9000 rpm, can you believe it?"

It has to have something, or some combination of features that sets it apart, makes it unique, makes it interesting.

2) Gets people in the showrooms. Following from (1), it's a car that people are interested in, even if in most cases it's not a practical or rational option for them for whatever reason. They want to see it in person. They want to touch it, sit in it, even drive it if they can. It's an object of desire on some level.

3) Represents the brand well in other venues. Sports cars need to compete in some way. They need to race. They need to develop pedigree. If you have a sedan like the Panamera or a CTS-V, it needs to stand astride its class and dominate. To be the kind of car that people say, even if they don't particularly like it, "you don't screw with that car".

The S2000 and NSX have done this for Honda in the past. S2000s still dominate when they race. There is only one engine ever made since the F20C that exceeds its specific output and rpm range and it comes in a $200k Ferrari. The S2000 is exceptionally special. The NSX was for the longest time the highest revving and only aluminum bodied supercar out there. Both these cars could have maintained their halo status but Honda chose to let them rot. I'm quite sure that the GT500 and ZL1 (not to mention the Corvette line) have brought a ton of attention to Ford and Chevy dealers as well as continuing the line of performance vehicles that so many brand loyalists consider important. Do you remember the outcry when Chevy dropped the Camaro 10 years ago?

I think that owequitit has articulated the problem for the RLX quite well. First, as an E-class competitor (and that's really where it is aimed according to the Acura people I've spoken to), it's kind of hard to have a true halo vehicle. The class just isn't high enough in terms of luxury, prestige, feature set, etc to really get people oohing and ahhing. Just look at Infiniti for example and the M. The M56 has a really, really good V8. RWD chassis. An exceptionally nice interior that takes a back seat to no one, not even Audi (different, yes, but not worse). But it's not a halo vehicle for Infiniti, nor does it help them sell a lot of the lesser sibling M37. What are the biggest flaws of the M? Styling that's a bit bulbous and as a performance vehicle, the overall chassis/driveline integration is a bit off. Oh, and economy isn't so great. But I'd argue that even if they nailed the styling and chassis, it still wouldn't qualify as a halo simply because it isn't _enough_ of anything in particular. And because the M is not an established brand/line like the E-class and 5-series, it doesn't have a following to depend on. And so, sales suck.

The RLX faces the same problems. Styling that is mediocre at best. A powertrain in base format that is not particularly special (I'm pretty sure the Audi 3.0T will walk away from it). Front wheel drive. And a very tarnished brand and model image. It might be a very solid car, no, it will be I'm sure. And the hybrid model will be unique. But it won't be a halo car. And as such, Acura needs to be shooting for sales. How will they compete with the E-class with it's myriad options and stellar reputation and history? I'm sure many people buy an E-class just because its a Benz. Conversely, I'm sure there are more than a few that won't buy an RLX because its an Acura. In order to make inroads the car has to surpass the competition.

SC



I guess I just don't see the RLX as a halo vehicle necessarily - I thought that's what the NSX was/is supposed to be. (It's interesting that you bring up the M because I thought I read a headline the other day that read something like: "Ghosn says no halo car for Infiniti") I definitely don't see the FWD base V6 version as Acura's Halo car - I see it just as everyone here seems to see it: it will probably be an incredibly solid car that does a lot of things really well - and does a lot of things better than the old RL did. If you guys want to think of the RLX as a bad halo car then that's fine I guess - I just don't see it that way.

I agree with everything you said btw notyper - I just think we see the RLX differently. To me the NSX is what will get people talking and the RLX will just be really good.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 11:06
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I don't think it's a halo either iutodd, which was owequitit's point. If it's not a halo, it needs to sell well. It can't do 700-800 units a month like the Infiniti M. That's not going to cut it. They need to move a couple thousand a month minimum. I have serious concerns about whether or not they'll be able to do that. I fear that the compromises inherent in the design choices are going to doom the RLX to a similar fate as the previous RL.

SC

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 18:05
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I'm a current '06 RLegendo owner, and I've said it before - with those looks I'm not interested, unless it's performance [economy and or speed] are exceptional. Of course the final decision rests with seeing the result "in the flesh" :)

As for size, it doesn't need to be much bigger, just a little more leg room out back [which should have been just about achievable with the removal of the mechanical rear diff].

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 18:11
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I think the NSX should be the Halo and the RLX should be the Flagship for Acura...
Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 18:34
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TurkMan71 wrote:
I think the NSX should be the Halo and the RLX should be the Flagship for Acura...

I think in the end none of this will matter because the consumers and brand whores have already decided. I like the fact that Acura is going their own route and not copying the crowd with RWD and V8 which do not define tier 1. The RL was never about flashyness it was about showing the best technology Honda had to offer and the trickle down effect to follow. If the RLX and it's many bandaids to hide it's FWD tendencies does well in reviews than it has accomplished something doing more with less. In the 50k price range Acura will never sell thousands a month the brand just doesn't have the cache, but to the loyal fans and new owners looking to try something different they will be getting a hell of a car.
It's funny how many ppl consider Infinti tier 1 when Ghosn himself said it will take at least 15 years to get there, at that rate why bother? The M was a weak attempt using a dated G design and nothing about it screams luxury that is why they are only getting 700-800 sales a month. They finally got the interior right after 2 preious failed generations and Infiniti engines aren't refined enough to be consider luxury. The previous GS was in the same boat sales wise,the new one seems to be doing better after targeting BMW it will be interesting to see if they can sustain sales.

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 19:04
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Mikeydred wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
I think the NSX should be the Halo and the RLX should be the Flagship for Acura...

If the RLX and it's many bandaids to hide it's FWD tendencies does well in reviews than it has accomplished something doing more with less.



With those 'many bandaids' isn't that more than less? I think it may be more than more...maybe Acura could do more by ditching the bandaids of FWD (which would include SH-AWD) and produce a well executed RWD sport sedan without all the electronic, weight gaining add ons?

If you can't beat them, join them...then beat them with the best you got...my 2 cents...


Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 19:28
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TurkMan71 wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
I think the NSX should be the Halo and the RLX should be the Flagship for Acura...

If the RLX and it's many bandaids to hide it's FWD tendencies does well in reviews than it has accomplished something doing more with less.


Then you would be left with another me too, there are no sales left for been there done that, we need something different to stand out. I agree the RLX design is too vanilla to stand out but most luxury cars are vanilla looking. Honda will hold a tight line when it comes to design from now on.

With those 'many bandaids' isn't that more than less? I think it may be more than more...maybe Acura could do more by ditching the bandaids of FWD (which would include SH-AWD) and produce a well executed RWD sport sedan without all the electronic, weight gaining add ons?

If you can't beat them, join them...then beat them with the best you got...my 2 cents...




 
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