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TOV Forums > RL / Legend > > Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)

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JeffX
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2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-08-2012 23:42
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TOV User 'sandro' submitted the following to the rumors/news section. I felt like it probably belonged here in the forum instead.


Acura Canada hosted a "focus group" to display the new 2014 RLX and to receive our feedback on what we saw.

They strictly forbid us to take photos.

Clearly looked like a ready for production model with all the factory stickers and vin and such in the usual places. Made in Japan according to the door jamb sticker.

This was the FWD version. 310hp, no AWD, but 4 wheel steering on this model.

The car looks very similar to the "concept", but the front lower fascia is slightly revised and looks better in person. The rear taillights are identical to the concept, but again, the lower fascia has hideous pieces of chrome surrounding the reflector lights. The wheels are 19" Michelin Primacy MXVs and have thin spokes as we've seen on Honda Accords.

Despite the pitchmans claim that it was a "mid size car, with a full size interior", to me and others I spoke with, the interior felt on the smaller and tighter than expected. The windshield definitely less expansive as in past hondas. The belt line felt higher. The rear seat wasn't exceptionally roomy either.

The leather felt absolutely fantastic, and they made a big deal about the "Krell" soundsystem, which I can confirm sounded absolutely amazing.

Overall, just felt like an upscale Accord.

I honestly think Acura won't light the sales charts on fire with this model.

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 00:38
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Quelle surprise....no, not really :-(
BachelorFrog
Profile for BachelorFrog
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 00:48
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I cant imagine what kind of reception RLX will get from the journalists when we fans are skeptical.

Time for seppuku for RLX project team.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 01:25
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The RLX looks ok, but not much more. I saw one of these new A7 hatchback's on the road the other day and that car is bad ass in appearance. The competition is stiff!



Stien Azani
Profile for Stien Azani
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 01:29
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how RLX drive is the most important ... necessarily appearance is subjective matter
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 02:02
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Stien Azani wrote:
how RLX drive is the most important ... necessarily appearance is subjective matter

You may have a point. Look at the Porsche Panamera!
:)

Stien Azani
Profile for Stien Azani
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 02:21
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superchg2 wrote:
Stien Azani wrote:
how RLX drive is the most important ... necessarily appearance is subjective matter

You may have a point. Look at the Porsche Panamera!
:)



look again the Panamera Wagon Concept..

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 07:36
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superchg2 wrote:
The RLX looks ok, but not much more. I saw one of these new A7 hatchback's on the road the other day and that car is bad ass in appearance. The competition is stiff!





I've seen a number of these tooling around in my area. On the one hand it has a striking presence on the road, but there are definitely some odd angles where it just doesn't look very good to my eye.

TR
Profile for TR
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 10:36
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A7 is my dream car but I just can't commit to owning a car with poor reliability.
I agree with Jeff that there is a certain angle from the back side that makes it look strange but it's overshadowed by the rest of the car.
IMO it will be very important for RLX to perform well so that it receives praises from the media. People do buy these cars based on what is said about them in magazines.
Panamera comparison is like apple/oranges because it's simply priced out of RLX range and not even in the same league.

revvin
Profile for revvin
That's unfortunate to hear, I was hoping the car would blow people away    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 11:07
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The new RLX will be a big time player, just like the old RL was.


oh wait.


The Panamera is a porsche, it's got cachet out the ying yang. The porsche, ferrari and lamborghini names can be attached to anything and will sell. Go check out http://www.porsche-design.com/international/en/

The RLX will have technology going for it, cramped interior and compromised styling. Just like the old one. The technology won't appeal to the end user who will leave it running over night, and the setup of the car for luxury/value (eg:suspension tuning, weight bias) will belie just how cutting edge and capable the technology is.

You'll be left thinking, why can't they make a slinky rear bias TL/CL with e-shawd AND 4 wheel steering?

I hope I'm wrong, but we've had this conversation for years now.

CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: That's unfortunate to hear, I was hoping the car would blow people away    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 12:32
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Here we go again. "Smart Luxury"? No, I don't think so. Sigh...


kirk
Profile for kirk
Re: That's unfortunate to hear, I was hoping the car would blow people away    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 12:42
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I love how the thread title is changed and it turns into a troll fest.
NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 12:47
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You are not authorized to change Jeff's thread titles.
Thanks, friend.
revvin wrote:
The new RLX will be a big time player, just like the old RL was.


oh wait.


The Panamera is a porsche, it's got cachet out the ying yang. The porsche, ferrari and lamborghini names can be attached to anything and will sell. Go check out http://www.porsche-design.com/international/en/

The RLX will have technology going for it, cramped interior and compromised styling. Just like the old one. The technology won't appeal to the end user who will leave it running over night, and the setup of the car for luxury/value (eg:suspension tuning, weight bias) will belie just how cutting edge and capable the technology is.

You'll be left thinking, why can't they make a slinky rear bias TL/CL with e-shawd AND 4 wheel steering?

I hope I'm wrong, but we've had this conversation for years now.


superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: That's unfortunate to hear, I was hoping the car would blow people away    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 13:08
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kirk wrote:
I love how the thread title is changed and it turns into a
troll fest.


Since the new RLX may in fact not blow people away, I wouldn't think that the title change has lead to a troll fest.



superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 13:12
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kirk wrote:
I love how the thread title is changed and it turns into a
troll fest.

Since the new RLX may in fact not blow people away, I wouldn't think that the title change had lead to a troll fest.



auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 16:16
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IMO, Acura will be able to sell barely a few hundred of these in a month, at the best.

I think more than the sales, Acura badly needed a respectable and up-to-date flagship, which is what I think it is trying to do.

And ofcourse, eSHAWD model will showcase its technology, but on the sales-front, its likely to be small too.

Also, not so roomy interior is disappointing, since Acura kept claiming a near 7-series interior room.

CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 19:22
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Nothing against Sandro but how can so many people base the level of potential sales and potential performance off of one persons brief evaluation of a car?

I remember Jeff's evaluation of the Accord mule which had the eSH-AWD setup and his statements were pretty positive. With that said, I'm sure that system has been further refined and tweaked for the production model.


~Patrick

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 22:21
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Personally I'm making an educated guess, based off of previous RL's, Acura's recent troubles, looking at pictures of the new RLX, and now reading a first hand account of the size.

The current generation car was praised when it first came out for its high tech, but as time went on (and plenums were added), its shortcomings were revealed - tight cabin, unremarkable presence, limited performance upgradability, and the high tech that it did have was never really fully utilized/appreciated because Acura couldn't figure out if it wanted the RL to be a luxury or sport sedan.

The big 'IF' with the new RLX is the drivetrain/awd system...if the hybrid trim level transforms the RL from an Accord+ type of car into a true world beater, then who knows, it could be as popular as the last gen TL.

...but the fact that this flagship's styling still is very front-wheel-drive-like, the new RDX/ILX are nice but yup you guessed it have limited performance upgradability, the interior space rates as nothing special, and just knowing the historical path and mission of the RL - I would say it's a safe educated guess that the new RLX will have limited success in the market place.


TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 22:33
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Oh and as for the Audi A7, that is my dream car design-wise these days...and believe me, I'm surprised that it is - it's a 5-dr hatch/coupe and I'm more of a sports car aficionado...

And no it's not perfect, but if I may be so trite and compare it to a woman.

Think Sophie Loren not Playboy bunny
Presence > Perfection

xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 22:37
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Acura should stop fucking around with this and just make an ILX hatch with a high-revving 2.0 6MT with the good old VTEC kick at 4500rpm. Include standard tech features and high quality materials, and there you go! Best seller right there!
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-09-2012 23:33
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TurkMan71 wrote:
Oh and as for the Audi A7, that is my dream car design-wise these days...and believe me, I'm surprised that it is - it's a 5-dr hatch/coupe and I'm more of a sports car aficionado...

And no it's not perfect, but if I may be so trite and compare it to a woman.

Think Sophie Loren not Playboy bunny
Presence > Perfection


When an A7 drove by me the other day, the car definitely had presence!

Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-10-2012 00:22
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When I saw the concept at NY I didn't think the rear was 7 series material, I noted in my observations from the show that the seats were pushed way forward that gave the impression of space, but was limited. Also the rear heating duct looks like it was taken from a TL, at a minimum they needed separate heating controls for the rear passengers and possible rear heated outboard seats.
iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-10-2012 03:05
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CivicB18 wrote:
Nothing against Sandro but how can so many people base the level of potential sales and potential performance off of one persons brief evaluation of a car?


~Patrick



This.

I am personally excited for the RLX and I think it will sell better than people think. Look at the likely competition and their sales from last month:

Eclass 5,265 +16.6%
5 Series 4,228 -8%
XTS 2,540
A6 1,620 +36.6%
GS 1,521 +471.8%
M 738 +11.1%
MKS 699 -28.7%
RL 21 -4.5%

Sclass 1,096 +18.2%
LS 834 -29.7%
A8 591 +54.7%


The most RL's Acura has ever sold in the states was like 15 or 16K I think back in the 90s. I think Acura's initial goal will be about half that - 8K units. So about 700 a month. It will still be at the bottom of the charts, but it's increase will be like 3300%. Look at it this way - the total number of units for all of those cars I listed is around 19,000. If Acura can win over 5% of those buyers it will sell 950 units a month. I think the V6 will be great (with DI maybe 310 hp and 290 lb-ft?), I think PAWS will be great, and I think the interior features and execution will be good enough to win over at least that many people - to say nothing of what ESHAWD could do. Price is important yes but Acura should be able to price it at a place where it's feature content is way ahead of it's competition.

Oh and if they build the NSX in the states wouldn't it be likely that they'll build the eSHAWD version of the RLX in the states as well?

Chocs
Profile for Chocs
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-10-2012 04:20
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I wouldn't say we should be worried about the RLX's engineering, quality, or dynamics... I personally wouldn't doubt Honda on those points after the 9th Accord.

But after the lacklustre sales a good first impression is what this car needs to get back under the radar. First impressions are usually carried out by exterior styling... and right now, it's giving not much of an impression at all.

TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-10-2012 09:03
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In 2005 Acura sold 18.5k RLs if memory serves. I do not expect this one to come even close to the BMW/Mercedes levels but if it can at least be up there Lexus/Infiniti, that would be a huge success.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-10-2012 18:15
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iutodd wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
Nothing against Sandro but how can so many people base the level of potential sales and potential performance off of one persons brief evaluation of a car?


~Patrick



This.

I am personally excited for the RLX and I think it will sell better than people think. Look at the likely competition and their sales from last month:

Eclass 5,265 +16.6%
5 Series 4,228 -8%
XTS 2,540
A6 1,620 +36.6%
GS 1,521 +471.8%
M 738 +11.1%
MKS 699 -28.7%
RL 21 -4.5%

Sclass 1,096 +18.2%
LS 834 -29.7%
A8 591 +54.7%


The most RL's Acura has ever sold in the states was like 15 or 16K I think back in the 90s. I think Acura's initial goal will be about half that - 8K units. So about 700 a month. It will still be at the bottom of the charts, but it's increase will be like 3300%. Look at it this way - the total number of units for all of those cars I listed is around 19,000. If Acura can win over 5% of those buyers it will sell 950 units a month. I think the V6 will be great (with DI maybe 310 hp and 290 lb-ft?), I think PAWS will be great, and I think the interior features and execution will be good enough to win over at least that many people - to say nothing of what ESHAWD could do. Price is important yes but Acura should be able to price it at a place where it's feature content is way ahead of it's competition.

Oh and if they build the NSX in the states wouldn't it be likely that they'll build the eSHAWD version of the RLX in the states as well?



What is the point of such a car if it doesn't climb the charts? We keep hearing over and over endlessly about how "enthusiast" products wouldn't sell in the volume required to justify their existence. Yet, we are also supposed to believe that somehow an irrelevant place holder at the top of their line will somehow be relevant when it can't move itself up the sales charts? Technology showcase or not, the thing will only make a difference as a halo if people actually notice it, and I would strongly argue that with FWD it will be no halo generator at all. While Audi still bases their cars on FWD platforms, they have all but hidden the lineage at the top with standard AWD, tons of power, and styling proportion that actually works to minimize the appearance of overhang.

And a little bit of number playing there don't you think? This would have to sustain a 300% monthly sales gain in order to even have a chance of playing at the top. It won't actually compete against the 7 series and S class, no matter how much Acura wants to pretend it will.

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-11-2012 10:13
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owequitit wrote:



What is the point of such a car if it doesn't climb the charts? We keep hearing over and over endlessly about how "enthusiast" products wouldn't sell in the volume required to justify their existence. Yet, we are also supposed to believe that somehow an irrelevant place holder at the top of their line will somehow be relevant when it can't move itself up the sales charts? Technology showcase or not, the thing will only make a difference as a halo if people actually notice it, and I would strongly argue that with FWD it will be no halo generator at all. While Audi still bases their cars on FWD platforms, they have all but hidden the lineage at the top with standard AWD, tons of power, and styling proportion that actually works to minimize the appearance of overhang.

And a little bit of number playing there don't you think? This would have to sustain a 300% monthly sales gain in order to even have a chance of playing at the top. It won't actually compete against the 7 series and S class, no matter how much Acura wants to pretend it will.



You mean like the S2000? How did the S2000 make a difference for Honda? I honestly don't know how producing enthusiast cars helps a brand as much as some people seem to think it does. Ford produces all these crazy variants of the Mustang and it's awesome and all that - but Ford has LOST market share this year. GM produces the Corvette and the Camaro...same story there. And I would argue that the Outback has done more for Subaru than the STi ever has.

And my point was simply that the market for a car like the RLX exists and that last month ~19,000 people spent $45K + on a car and Acura needs a competent, updated, desirable car in that price range (that isn't the ZDX).

I also think the RLX will be very relevant in the marketplace. The A6 and the 5 series start with turbo 4s. The RLX will have what will most likely be a fantastic V6 producing 310 hp and probably ~285-290 lb-ft (if the torque jumps from DI found in the K24 are similar, I don't know if the comparison actually makes sense or not because of the differences in the engines) and it will also most likely be really well-equipped for the price when compared to the competition. When ELS Audio is your (likely) base audio system that is saying something about the level of luxury in the car.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-11-2012 13:28
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No offense iutodd, but based upon your post, I don't think you understand the purpose of a halo vehicle.

A halo vehicle does several things:

1) Gets people talking about the brand. It's a car that people look at in a magazine or driving down the street and think/say, "Oh, wow, that's one of those model X's. What a beautiful car." Or, "I heard that car is the fastest car in its class." Or, "That car lapped the Nurburgring in 7:19." Or, "It has a motor that revs to 9000 rpm, can you believe it?"

It has to have something, or some combination of features that sets it apart, makes it unique, makes it interesting.

2) Gets people in the showrooms. Following from (1), it's a car that people are interested in, even if in most cases it's not a practical or rational option for them for whatever reason. They want to see it in person. They want to touch it, sit in it, even drive it if they can. It's an object of desire on some level.

3) Represents the brand well in other venues. Sports cars need to compete in some way. They need to race. They need to develop pedigree. If you have a sedan like the Panamera or a CTS-V, it needs to stand astride its class and dominate. To be the kind of car that people say, even if they don't particularly like it, "you don't screw with that car".

The S2000 and NSX have done this for Honda in the past. S2000s still dominate when they race. There is only one engine ever made since the F20C that exceeds its specific output and rpm range and it comes in a $200k Ferrari. The S2000 is exceptionally special. The NSX was for the longest time the highest revving and only aluminum bodied supercar out there. Both these cars could have maintained their halo status but Honda chose to let them rot. I'm quite sure that the GT500 and ZL1 (not to mention the Corvette line) have brought a ton of attention to Ford and Chevy dealers as well as continuing the line of performance vehicles that so many brand loyalists consider important. Do you remember the outcry when Chevy dropped the Camaro 10 years ago?

I think that owequitit has articulated the problem for the RLX quite well. First, as an E-class competitor (and that's really where it is aimed according to the Acura people I've spoken to), it's kind of hard to have a true halo vehicle. The class just isn't high enough in terms of luxury, prestige, feature set, etc to really get people oohing and ahhing. Just look at Infiniti for example and the M. The M56 has a really, really good V8. RWD chassis. An exceptionally nice interior that takes a back seat to no one, not even Audi (different, yes, but not worse). But it's not a halo vehicle for Infiniti, nor does it help them sell a lot of the lesser sibling M37. What are the biggest flaws of the M? Styling that's a bit bulbous and as a performance vehicle, the overall chassis/driveline integration is a bit off. Oh, and economy isn't so great. But I'd argue that even if they nailed the styling and chassis, it still wouldn't qualify as a halo simply because it isn't _enough_ of anything in particular. And because the M is not an established brand/line like the E-class and 5-series, it doesn't have a following to depend on. And so, sales suck.

The RLX faces the same problems. Styling that is mediocre at best. A powertrain in base format that is not particularly special (I'm pretty sure the Audi 3.0T will walk away from it). Front wheel drive. And a very tarnished brand and model image. It might be a very solid car, no, it will be I'm sure. And the hybrid model will be unique. But it won't be a halo car. And as such, Acura needs to be shooting for sales. How will they compete with the E-class with it's myriad options and stellar reputation and history? I'm sure many people buy an E-class just because its a Benz. Conversely, I'm sure there are more than a few that won't buy an RLX because its an Acura. In order to make inroads the car has to surpass the competition.

SC

iutodd wrote:
You mean like the S2000? How did the S2000 make a difference for Honda? I honestly don't know how producing enthusiast cars helps a brand as much as some people seem to think it does. Ford produces all these crazy variants of the Mustang and it's awesome and all that - but Ford has LOST market share this year. GM produces the Corvette and the Camaro...same story there. And I would argue that the Outback has done more for Subaru than the STi ever has.

And my point was simply that the market for a car like the RLX exists and that last month ~19,000 people spent $45K + on a car and Acura needs a competent, updated, desirable car in that price range (that isn't the ZDX).

I also think the RLX will be very relevant in the marketplace. The A6 and the 5 series start with turbo 4s. The RLX will have what will most likely be a fantastic V6 producing 310 hp and probably ~285-290 lb-ft (if the torque jumps from DI found in the K24 are similar, I don't know if the comparison actually makes sense or not because of the differences in the engines) and it will also most likely be really well-equipped for the price when compared to the competition. When ELS Audio is your (likely) base audio system that is saying something about the level of luxury in the car.



owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-11-2012 15:02
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iutodd wrote:
owequitit wrote:



What is the point of such a car if it doesn't climb the charts? We keep hearing over and over endlessly about how "enthusiast" products wouldn't sell in the volume required to justify their existence. Yet, we are also supposed to believe that somehow an irrelevant place holder at the top of their line will somehow be relevant when it can't move itself up the sales charts? Technology showcase or not, the thing will only make a difference as a halo if people actually notice it, and I would strongly argue that with FWD it will be no halo generator at all. While Audi still bases their cars on FWD platforms, they have all but hidden the lineage at the top with standard AWD, tons of power, and styling proportion that actually works to minimize the appearance of overhang.

And a little bit of number playing there don't you think? This would have to sustain a 300% monthly sales gain in order to even have a chance of playing at the top. It won't actually compete against the 7 series and S class, no matter how much Acura wants to pretend it will.



You mean like the S2000? How did the S2000 make a difference for Honda? I honestly don't know how producing enthusiast cars helps a brand as much as some people seem to think it does. Ford produces all these crazy variants of the Mustang and it's awesome and all that - but Ford has LOST market share this year. GM produces the Corvette and the Camaro...same story there. And I would argue that the Outback has done more for Subaru than the STi ever has.

And my point was simply that the market for a car like the RLX exists and that last month ~19,000 people spent $45K + on a car and Acura needs a competent, updated, desirable car in that price range (that isn't the ZDX).

I also think the RLX will be very relevant in the marketplace. The A6 and the 5 series start with turbo 4s. The RLX will have what will most likely be a fantastic V6 producing 310 hp and probably ~285-290 lb-ft (if the torque jumps from DI found in the K24 are similar, I don't know if the comparison actually makes sense or not because of the differences in the engines) and it will also most likely be really well-equipped for the price when compared to the competition. When ELS Audio is your (likely) base audio system that is saying something about the level of luxury in the car.




This is about equivalent to your numbers game earlier.

1) The S2000 EXCEEDED sales goals for most of its life. Only until 4 or 5 years in did sales start to sag. For a sports car to maintain that is pretty incredible because most of the time they are flash in the pan popular for a short time.

The NSX did the same initially, except that Ferrari and Porsche responded very quickly and relegated the NSX to the back of the pack quite quickly. Had Honda gotten more serious with models like the Type R and Type S, as well as continuously improving the engine, I don't think the NSX would have needed a whole lot of overhaul to remain relevant. Performance wise, the Type R was relevant up until the release of the F430 which just had too much power for the NSX's slightly sandbagged 290HP to deal with. The fact that the NSX only lacked on paper specs for the better half of its life is a pretty strong testament to what it was built with. However, at that range, image is important, and whether it is rational or not, Honda/Acura will have to play to that irrational desire to be the "best" in all areas. The new NSX better have a ton of headroom built in, or they are in trouble again.

As for Ford's market share problems, I am pretty sure that just looking at market share in relation to the big picture is extremely myopic. Ford didn't lose ground because they built too many versions of the Mustang. They lost market share because they took major quality hits in surveys, one of their biggest sellers was on its last legs (Fusion), and they introduced a lot of "controversial" technology. I can assure you from driving it that a fair number of Focus sales were lost from the absolutely dreadful DCT transmission's execution.

The moral of the story is that rather than taking the absolutely biased standpoint of "Ford shouldn't build Mustangs because their market share went down," it would be far more appropriate to recognize that Ford's market share likely went down due to a lot of other issues in their lineup. A halo car isn't going to exempt execution on every other front (quality, reliability, refinement still matter), and that is largely why Ford's market share dropped. They have also been offering fewer incentives, while the Japanese have been offering more. That doesn't help either in an economic downturn.

However, consider that Ford has managed to sell nearly as many Mustangs as Acura's entire lineup of cars, despite the fact that it is less practical, runs on the higher end of the spectrum price wise, and is not the most efficient mode of transport out there. I think the fact that Ford has maintained 50-100K Mustang sales every year is damn impressive given the realities of the market.

I can also tell you from personal experience that as a lifelong die-hard Honda fan, I would rather own a Mustang GT Track pack at this point than pretty much anything in Honda's lineup. I even like the Focus ST more because of the Mustang. I have always liked Mustangs, but they were seldom at the very top of my list. Frankly, I may buy a 2012-2013 Mustang GT used at some point down the road.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: 2014 RLX in the flesh (submitted to Rumors/News section)    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 07:13
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That's really the point here, isn't it? Many of us believe Acura needs a halo-type sedan while Honda believes they need a less expensive executive car. I look at this RLX and simply see it as an upgraded version of the current car. Unfortunately, Hyundai's experience with their cheap luxury sedan Genesis hasn't changed how some of the other makes go about their business. Luxury car buyers don't care about Reason. They will spend tens of thousands of dollars more for the right car.

The RLX is simply a too conservatively styled sedan to move the market like Audi has with its cars. RLX sales could be double or even triple those of the RL and the car would still be invisible on the roads.



 
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