[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
Honda announces changes for 2019 Civic, including new Sport trim
More.......................
When is the 2019 Accord arriving in showrooms? Maybe not until 2019
More.......................
American Honda Reports July Sales Results
More.......................
Official statement from Honda concerning flooding of Celaya factory
More.......................
News from the dealer side: 2019 HR-V, Fit, and Insight production impacted due to flooding in Celaya
More.......................
2019 Honda HR-V updated with styling tweaks, Apple CarPlay/Android Auto, and available Honda Sensing
More.......................
2019 Acura MDX Arrives with Luxury and Performance Upgrades Plus First A-Spec Variant
More.......................
SPIED IN EUROPE! Civic Type R refresh
More.......................
Professional Motorsports --> Re: Alonso Quits F1
Join Discussion......
Accord --> Re: Local dealer has a bunch of new 17 Accord Tourings in front of building.
Join Discussion......
Honda Motorcycles --> Re: Retro Honda CBX returning - yes it has an L6. July 12-18
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: DC-R
Join Discussion......
Pilot --> Re: Chevy Prepping Mini-Blazer
Join Discussion......
HR-V/Vezel --> Re: European HRV with 1.5 L VTEC Turbo engine coming Spring 2019
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Alaska Airlines plane hijacked
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Navigation and Subtle Aromatherapy
Join Discussion......
Clarity --> Re: Clarity PHEV Owner
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: "Moose Test". Nissan Kicks fail
Join Discussion......
Civic --> Re: Re:Honda Debuts 2019 Civic Sport in Sedan and Coupe Form
Join Discussion......
Fuel Cell Technology --> Re: H2 for All... again at last!
Join Discussion......
Fuel Cell Technology --> Re: No more 3rd gen FC Clarity, Hello 2020 4th gen
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: Red Bull Ring Round 11 MotoGP (spoiler)
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: The new and used Jeeps are moving off the lot in New Jersey
Join Discussion......
First Drive: 2019 Honda Insight
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Insight PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura RDX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura RDX Features & Specifications
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery - 2019 Acura RDX Advance
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery - 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
  TOV Articles > TOVA Feature Car : The Honda Beat > > Re: More replacement Beat info...

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1]
Author
    
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2012 13:19
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Check out:

This story from July 17, 2010
and after the info we now know
that story isn't so far fetched now!

www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1006_honda_to_fusc_s2000_beat_into_one/?ti=v3

There been talk for awhile that the new beat was going to be a little bigger than the kei car size and being a true sports car.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2012 19:15
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
RolledaNsx wrote:
Check out:

This story from July 17, 2010
and after the info we now know
that story isn't so far fetched now!

www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1006_honda_to_fusc_s2000_beat_into_one/?ti=v3

There been talk for awhile that the new beat was going to be a little bigger than the kei car size and being a true sports car.


1st) the link you provided appears to be broken
2nd) I don't know how could the new beat be "bigger than kei-size", since:
kei-size is mandated by law
Ito just said it's going to be a kei-car.
Again there are no loopholes in the kei-car legislation, either it will be or not, and he said it is. Maybe he was liying...

Same goes for power. Honda could give it a turbo and make it torquier, but the ceiling will remain at 64PS no matter what. Sure, they could invest in exotic materials and make it like 700-800kg, but it'd still be plenty slow by any international standard. That doesn't mean it can't be crazily fun to drive for what it is. Karts are.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-25-2012 20:44
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
look up:

Honda to fuse S2000 and Beat into one - Motor Trend

This is Ito's baby....

The insiders are being real top secret on this one(don't want to piss off the top brass)!

But here is a few facts: Honda now is into only global platforms with local styling.

It was stated it was going to be a sports car
not a kei-car.
Now in Japan they'll use the kei rules
but it will make more than 64ps just not stated just like the NSX type R it made way more than 290hp!!!

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 02:07
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The actual translation in the Honda press release was summarized as :

In addition to the NSX, the next-generation super sports model, Honda will launch a new open-top sports car with strong vehicles dynamics which will go on sale in Japan 2014, as one of the six new mini-vehicle models.
.

Firstly, the new NSX was used to lead in to the announcement of the new Beat. So I would think the 'sports car' term might possibly mean something. But I also notice the sentence ends with "as one of the six new mini-vehicle models. As the N-Box which was mentioned earlier in the summary/press release was called a 'mini-vehicle', so I would think that this new Beat will be a Kei-car. Do Honda know about some change in the Kei-car rules next year ? In any case, are the Kei-car rules : ~600cc and ~60ps some formal government regulation tied to tax or other regulations ?

I am just glad we now have something interesting to discuss about, from the performance oriented angle.

DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 04:51
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Hope this work.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1006_honda_to_fuse_s2000_beat_into_one/

Something I noted from the MT article:

- if this is a kei car, I doubt it would share Fit's platform. More likely something from other kei cars like N-one




Whatever, just don't believe everything .... from the net!

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 10:27
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
WongKN wrote:
The actual translation in the Honda press release was summarized as :

In addition to the NSX, the next-generation super sports model, Honda will launch a new open-top sports car with strong vehicles dynamics which will go on sale in Japan 2014, as one of the six new mini-vehicle models.
.

Firstly, the new NSX was used to lead in to the announcement of the new Beat. So I would think the 'sports car' term might possibly mean something. But I also notice the sentence ends with "as one of the six new mini-vehicle models. As the N-Box which was mentioned earlier in the summary/press release was called a 'mini-vehicle', so I would think that this new Beat will be a Kei-car. Do Honda know about some change in the Kei-car rules next year ? In any case, are the Kei-car rules : ~600cc and ~60ps some formal government regulation tied to tax or other regulations ?

I am just glad we now have something interesting to discuss about, from the performance oriented angle.


Personally, I enjoy discussing any Honda-related subject with a minimum of substance, but (regardless of who they claim to be) I just can't stand people that:
- keep bringing miss-information to the board as if they were facts.
- lack the minimum manners to acknowledge when they get something wrong.

You guys can put this any way you want, but the Beat replacement is going to be a kei-car. It is perfectly clear in the English translation of the press release (that you quoted), or in the dubbed EN presentation (from min 17:15), or in the original JP presentation (from 4:40).

As I said, kei-cars size and power are limited by law (I guess anyone can read Wikipedia), and there is nothing Honda could or would want to do about it. Moreover it is extremely unlikely that Japan could move to increase any of those limits, because kei-cars are the object of key trade disputes between US and JP, the Americans accusing Japan of inventing the kei thing to keep their market artificially closed to foreign makers. As they are kei-cars already represent pretty nice small cars, if they made them even bigger or more powerful Japan wouldn't stand a chance on the WTO.

The main point of kei-cars for a Japanese consumer is not so much the small size, nor the relatively cheap purchase price, but the incredibly cheap running costs. I've talked about this several times in TOV, but having a regular (non-kei) car in Japan is a luxury.
- One cannot buy a regular car without having a parking place, and yes, in a country as crowded as Japan that is expensive.
- Gasoline is nearly as expensive as in Europe, and there is no diesel (for passenger cars, other than for a bunch of super-expensive clean-diesel models).
- All freeways are toll-roads, and price is about 25 USD/100km (60 miles)
- There are all kinds of taxes, beginning with the annual road tax which costs about 375 USD for the cheapest cars (like a CR-Z or a Fit).
- Insurance premiums are rather expensive (above 1000 USD/year for my CR-Z).
- In most of the country one needs snow tires, without which you cannot enter the freeways in winter season (regardless of whether there is snow or not).

Now, that is about regular cars, but kei-cars pay less for everything (about 90 USD road tax) and do not require you to have a parking place to begin with. That is why it makes sense for some people to buy any kind of car (including a "fun to drive" one in kei-form.



RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 11:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
1) We knew a team was working on a open top sports car in Tokyo but until that speech in Sept. there was never any talk it was going to be a Kei-car.

2) The first Beat was a failure in Sales.After the first year the sales died.Sports cars don't work in the Kei-car market,now if your single and don't need to carry anything maybe,but how many of them in the market? The people in that market bought the Mazda Miata and Honda knows that.

3)Ito loved the Beat but he knows it can't flop like the first one or the bean counters will never give him a ok again.

Think..... this sports car will be the pride of Ito in Japan
.So will it be a Kei-car or something a little bigger


RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 11:35
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Or I could be wrong and there is going to be two new open-top sports cars!

One on a n-box platform and the other on the Fit platform
Honda's little secret :)~

But after they killed the S2000 replacement and the OSM in 2008 a fellow engineer who was working on the OSM was called back from Europe to Japan to work on a new roadster.He only told me the new project is combining the
two into on kit.

SoulMate
Profile for SoulMate
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 12:42
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
RolledaNsx, can you tell, the new Beat and mini-NSX the same vehicle or not?
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 15:15
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
danielgr

Likes facts:

So look up the concept car(ev-ster) for this sports car.
Is it in the Kei-car rules?
NO.... just a little bigger.
And just in case I get some back talk from you that it is a EV car.
Ito already said; "it will come petrol first".

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 22:57
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
There are a few considerations;

1. Honda's term of 'mini-vehicle' is equal to kei-car or not ?
2. While I understand that kei-car follows some regulations, (now explained to be 'law' in Japan), what happens if someone makes a car in that kind of design but does not want to follow the law, i.e. does not want to enjoy whatever benefits a kei-car enjoys. Can then the regulations of kei-car be broken. Surely japanese kei-car 'law' cannot be such that if one wants to make a mini-car, then it MUST be a kei-car and MUST follow the 'law'. It cannot be so clear-cut, so black and white, with no grey area in between. (but then again, can it ?)

My consideration is much like that case of that JDM 180kph speed limiter/280ps max power rule that have been in place in Japan for decades.

So this new Beat is mini-car size. But a mini-car is not exactly the same as a japanese 'kei-car'. It is smaller than the Jazz/Fit for sure. But Honda can also create a mini sports car called the new 'Honda Beat' that is large enough to seat regularly sized adults comfortably and has a 1000cc engine which delivers over 100ps and delivers quite acceptable performance level. Much like a small version of the original Lotus Elise which uses power-to-weight ratio to deliver 'near supercar' performance levels. For sure it (Lotus Elise) was a very nice car to drive with a high level of performance.

This to me is think outside of the box - a mini-car yes but not kei-car compliant. It is a low-volume seller, this much Ito has acknowledged. But just like Honda has recently started to admit that an IMA hybrid doesn't necessarily mean fuel economy above everything else, so too a mini-car doesn't really mean compliant to kei-car rules. Where is the benefit to limit the Beat to kei-car rules since it is not expected to sell in large numbers anyway.

Whatever it will ultimately be, I am happy to read so many discussions about it. This article has already exceed 2000 views which is a good sign for 3 days of publication.

Also, let me be the 'nice-guy' again and explain that having dealt with Honda people:- local employees, japanese employee working locally here in Malaysia, ASEAN employee from regional HQ, japanese employee from regional HQ, foreign employee working in Honda HQ, japanese employee working in Honda HQ and Honda plant in Saitama, and Honda R&D from Tochigi and others, and finally having talked to the previous CEO himself, what I can say it it is IMPOSSIBLE to dig CONCLUSIVE 'insider info' from Honda if one is not a 'privileged' employee. Answer on the same topic given by different employee varies hugely, often contradictory. Even the actual product planner's info can change at the last minute.

I was working the product team whom introduced the FD2R to Malaysia and all the while they were telling me that it will take more than a year to bring the car in. Suddenly within two months, they said the car will be launched within the same year. So I was actually managing my finances with a view to purchase the FD2R the following year when Honda Malaysia announced the launch of it and caught me unprepared. And I was working with the actual person responsible for the car (he even asked me what brand of CD player I would find acceptable in the FD2R, Panansonic, Technics, or Alpine) and we were talking about whether people will accept the 180kph speed limiter. I even arranged a focus-group session for his boss, the marketing manager for Honda Malaysia. And still I was caught unprepared by a last minute change in the launching plans. They told me when approval for the FD2R for Malaysia was given suddenly, they -had- to quickly grab it and make it happen because from experience, they know if they waited, someone else can well veto it.

So, again, I would say when we read from forumers with insider info, personally I would take all of them at face value, which in my case, means I accept all of them as 'facts' until the real event happens. I know for a fact, that all the info can be correct when the person heard them but it could well have been changed by the time he told them to me. I definitely would NOT and NEVER take official Honda press releases or even announcements as 'gospel' because I know for a fact that Honda's so-called official statements are quite often influenced by corporate considerations and even 'political' requirements.

Thanks for a healthy discussion to all.


RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-26-2012 23:56
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
WongKN

You are one of the few who understand that all your going to get are hints.Because the only info your going to get was only for feed back and with that info the project changes.So want they told you will be different in a few months.

Even Company releases are sometimes just smoke.

Also you need to know that the board kills so many
projects!So it leaks from R&D....Now that isn't wrong info.
... it just didn't come to light!!!

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 03:56
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Yes, reminds of this. Real incident. We were discussing about -the- turbocharged CR-Z. HAVFM swears that what he heard is that it is REAL and that it will be launched. I went and asked someone, don't ask me for details, just trust me when I say that his position within 'the company' is to know -everything- about -all- models. And he told me that in R&D there can be literally a thousand projects going on and that at any one time, more than a hundred may well be running prototypes. So that turbocharged CR-Z has been around for some time, he told me. But he also said that management has not approved it for development, the next stage after research has been completed. So he said "don't hold your breath".

Lucky I didn't hold my breath ! LOL !!!

I even know how an official response to an official letter to Honda management is drafted. At one time, when I was working on a factory visit for some Honda owners, I was even told "the CEO says it's a go, so we can work on it. Don't wait for the letter (official response). It doesn't have anything useful in it."

LOL !!!

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: More replacement Beat info... [View Article]    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 23:03
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Another hint.... Ev-ster is a little bigger(to meet crash test standards) than kei-car size because it might be sold in other markets than Japan.

We will see....AHM wants a car the size of the GT-86 instead.


If you follow the auto show trail it was shown almost every where except the US.


 
Thread Page - [1]
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
30 mobile: 0