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  TOV News > Honda Announces Revolutionary Next-generation “Earth Dreams Technology” > > Re: "Top of Industry fuel efficiency in Every Vehicle Class..."

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Profile for iutodd
"Top of Industry fuel efficiency in Every Vehicle Class..." [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-30-2011 00:38
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(Because I have nothing better to do)

"...In three years"

Going by EPA classifications (cars that Honda makes):

Two-Seaters (CR-Z)
Compacts (Civic, Insight)
Large (Accord)
Small Station Wagon (Fit)
Midsize Station Wagon

Standard Pickup Trucks (Ridgeline)
SUVS (CR-V, Pilot, Crosstour)
Minivans (Odyssey)

If you don't include EVs Honda leads two categories right now: two-seater with the CR-Z and compact with the HCH. Honda will be producing EVs soon but that market will change so much over the next three years I'm going to leave those out for simplicities sake.

Honda doesn't have a car in the minicompact, subcompact, or midsize (station wagon) designations unless I missed something. So we'll ignore those for now. We'll also leave Acura out of the conversation as I expect Honda to be leading the fuel-efficiency parade.

Also remember that all of the automakers are going to be pushing out new tech like gangbusters to try and meet the CAFE 2016 standard so Honda's targets will keep shifting upwards as the next three years go by.

Full Size: Hyundai Sonata and Camry lead with 28 mpg combined. Honda should lead this category next year when the next-gen Accord is released since the Accord already gets 27 mpg combined.

Small Station Wagon: The Fit. It's way behind the Audi A3 TDI and Jetta Wagon TDI by 4 mpg combined and 7 mpg highway. That new 1.6L diesel sure would be nice in the Fit!

Standard Pickup Trucks: The GM Hybrids get 21 mpg combined. The Ridgeline gets 17. This will be the hardest one probably. The new 3.5L will probably get put in here, along with the 6AT. This assumes that the Ridgeline sticks around, which we keep hearing that it will/won't. The Small pickup truck leader is the Tacoma at 22 mpg so if Honda releases some sort of small CR-V based pickup that would be the goal.

SUVs: Right now it's the Escape Hybrid at 32 mpg. This model is getting discontinued I believe but the new Escape will certainly be in the running with it's ecoboost engines. A CR-V Hybrid is rumored and it would almost certainly have to happen if Honda wishes to lead this segment unless the new 2.4L/CVTor6AT combo is amazingly efficient. Either way it probably means that the K24/5AT combo will probably be going away inside of 3 years. This partially depends on how the next-gen Crosstour gets classified as well - if it stays a SUV then this might be the vehicle that Honda uses to get the "lead" in the segment.

Minivan: The Mazda 5 leads with 24 mpg combined. The 6AT Odyssey Touring is at 22 mpg combined. The new DI 3.5L should do the trick I would think - or at least get very close. Of course Mazda will probably be putting the Sky-Activ engine in the 5 at some point so this may get even harder...though Odyssey Hybrid rumors have been floating about. And the Odyssey is so much bigger and heavier than the 5...Honda really already leads this segment.

Anyway - I just thought that claim was interesting and I wonder if Honda can really do it. I know that this stuff isn't all that exciting to all you enthusiasts out there but it looks like Honda is trying to find a way to make their cars very fuel efficient while still making them as fun as possible. And it means that Honda is really going to have a direction and purpose over the next 3 years, which is something that they seem to have been lacking. Direction and purpose will really allow Honda to flex their engineering muscle, which is a good thing.

Profile for Potenza
Re: "Top of Industry fuel efficiency in Every Vehicle Class..." [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-30-2011 01:04
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iutodd wrote:
I just thought that claim was interesting and I wonder if Honda can really do it.
The most difficult part is that it's a moving target. The stats you posted can't even be the goal, because they'll be out-of-date by the time Honda gets these engines to market.

"Top of Industry fuel efficiency in Every Vehicle Class" is essentially the same goal Hyundai stated a year or so ago, is it not? I think I even read a quote from a Ford engineer stating a similar goal...

It won't be easy!

Profile for danielgr
Re: "Top of Industry fuel efficiency in Every Vehicle Class..." [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-30-2011 06:06
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I think you are making it much more difficult than it is by:
• assuming some criteria on class definition
• assuming Honda will play on all of them

• I'm pretty sure Honda considers hybrids a class apart (will compare hybrids with hybrids, non-hybrids with non hybrids, and that claim referred to non-hybrids.
• I'm pretty sure Honda doesn't consider the fit to be a wagon, don't think honda will compare gas models with diesel ones
• don't think Honda believes a Mazda 5 is on the same class as an Ody... They are not, Honda simply doesn't make a Mazda 5 competitor in the US, and Mazda doesn't make an Ody one in the US...

And so on

The way you got it, believe me, you'll be disappointed...

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