Varmint
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| So close?
(Score: 1, Normal)
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06-20-2011 12:19 |
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I'm close to pulling the trigger. Two issues stand in my way.
First, am I nuts for putting my 5 year-old in the front seat? This is only for short rides of about 1.5 miles to school in the morning. That part of my commute is suburban streets with only one major intersection. There's good visibility and a light at the intersection. Still, this is my daughter we're talking about. Why even consider the odds when Mini sells the Cooper? I hate being an adult.
Second, there is a pre-owned CR-Z EX 6MT for sale locally. The dealer is asking $21,300, which is essentially the same as the Edmunds TMV price for a brand new one. It has a few accessories, including the 17" OEM rims, the armrest/console, and one of those clear bra thingies. Those are probably worth $1.2K when new. The price also includes a lifetime powertrain scam warranty.
Thoughts?
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Alollini
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it is only a question of size of your daughter.
Don't mess with security, if she's too small use the required equipment, if she's ok then use the stock seatbelt / with riser.
the armrest is awfully expensive, 17 inch alloy too, those two options are more than 2 K alone.
if xenon lights, light washer are included this is a fair price.
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Honda Meek
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I believe laws vary by State, you should check yours. If you aren't in compliance, a worker at the school may get wind and notify someone.
Standard disclaimer: I work for Honda but they don't necessarily share my views.
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Varmint
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It is legal - though the state laws include a "recommendation" about the back seat being safer. I wouldn't consider this were it not legal. The problem is my "be a good dad" guilt, not the law.
The CR-Z uses the usual height/weight sensor in the seats to determine if the airbags should deploy. I plan on testing this prior to purchase. I plan to keep my current vehicle, so the CR-Z will only be a commuter car. My top speed with her in the vehicle won't be more than 20-30 mph. It's the other idiots on the road...
Funnily enough, Euro crash tests suggest the CR-Z is slightly safer for the driver and front passenger than the Mini Cooper. I'd be sacrificing my own safety to put my kid in the back. (Well worth it, I know... it's just amusing to me.)
If it were a brand new car, I might give them credit for labor costs to install these parts, but that's not the case. It's possible they sold the car (making a profit on the accessories). Then they bought it back 9 months later (probably low-balling the poor guy who had to return it). Now they are going to sell it a second time to me. I'm all for giving them a fair profit, but the accessories have already earned them enough cash. Prices per H and A Accessories...
Armrest: $283
Rims: 240 each (sale price)
Clear bra: ?
It's possible the car has other accessories. It was locked and we only made note of those items we could see. I test drove a different car - a loaded-up demo.
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FiSH-Chan
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Ever considered a colliision might come from behind, not just the front? The Mini doesn't leave much space from behind.
I was hit from behind recently, even though there is a trunk to deform and absorb the crash, it's still not a very comfortable thought.
Recently a freak accident happened in my country, the guy drove drunk with a friend, hit a tree, and got head injuries. People stopped to help pull him out, and another car (probably also driven by a drunk) comes along at high speed sending the helping guys running and he runs the injured driver over while he's still lying on the road! Hit & run!! Something like out of Final Destination. That's how bad it is here.
I think when it happens you can lessen the chances can't help it if everything goes wrong at once, but just something for you to consider as not all collisions are from the front... of course I hope you will never encounter this scenarios.
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WongKN
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But to be fair, we have to consider that statistically the percent risk for the rear seats are single digits (I forgot the exact number) versus over 10% for the driver and near 90% for the front passenger. This is why the literal translation for the front passenger seat, in japanese, is 'suicide seat'. Given a choice, I think it is a wise decision for Varmint to want to have his kid in the rear seats versus the front seats. But it is true that the CR-Z (USDM version) does not offer him this choice.
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danielgr
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WongKN wrote:
But to be fair, we have to consider that statistically the percent risk for the rear seats are single digits (I forgot the exact number) versus over 10% for the driver and near 90% for the front passenger. This is why the literal translation for the front passenger seat, in japanese, is 'suicide seat'. Given a choice, I think it is a wise decision for Varmint to want to have his kid in the rear seats versus the front seats. But it is true that the CR-Z (USDM version) does not offer him this choice.
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That said, back is always safer (for kids or adults alike), but personally I rather drive my daugther in the front with me provided I was assured that she is big enough not to risk much more than an adult would. That I don't know. Either way over a 1.5 mile commute at 20-30mph for me it wouldn't be a consideration. On open roads and highway speeds it would be a different story though.
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Alollini
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even if i had useable backseats i would prefer my daughter in front seat, even without a riser, because seat and seatbelt are better fastened, and there is side support from seat.
When i see crash dummies react on front impact or side impact, better to be in front seats.
The airbag will not deploy for less than 40kg person on seat, and this is BEST.
front seat is far away from dashboard, active seatbelt will do best job restain passenger movement, anyweight, with enough size for belt to fit on the legs and chest.
Airbag is better for fatter people / taller, and for cases when you have to put front seat closer to the dashboard.
the reason why statistically there is more problems in front than in back is because backseats are less used in the first place. Both side protection and rear protection are poor, and in cas of front collision front seat clearance make results akward. Backseats are awful at reducing side movement.
=> I write this about any modern car with good crashtest rating. Not CR-Z specific.
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Varmint
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Not so close.
Dealer wouldn't budge on the price. If what they're telling me is true, they overpaid when they took the car in. I liked the sales guy, but not enough to give him $2K over the value of the car. I had to walk away.
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DCR
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Varmint wrote:
Not so close.
Dealer wouldn't budge on the price. If what they're telling me is true, they overpaid when they took the car in. I liked the sales guy, but not enough to give him $2K over the value of the car. I had to walk away.
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$2k over the value of a CR-Z? They must be in a fantasy world.
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DCR
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and where are you from? The dealer I buy from is not charging even MSRP.
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Varmint
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I'm in MA.
Best I can figure, the dealer got hosed and is trying to make the best of it. They sold the car 8 months ago, and recently took it back in trade for something else. Now they are trying to sell it a second time. The salesman kept repeating that he had no room to move because of what the dealer paid for it. They must have given the original owner one heck of a trade value. If they truly have no wiggle room, they must be underwater on the car. I was prepared to give them a fair profit over the car's value. They didn't even make a counter offer.
At this moment, I'm chasing down new car prices that are lower even with destination and doc fees. (Granted, these new cars don't include the accessories.) I've got one offer just under invoice.
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Alollini
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I had 3k€ réduction on mine new in july 2010, mostly in Free options and a 2k€ cheque from gov for low emission vehicle. They gave me 3.5k€ for m'y old jazz. With all substracted i paid less than 20k€ for new.
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NorCalSales
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Honda Meek wrote:
I believe laws vary by State, you should check yours. If you aren't in compliance, a worker at the school may get wind and notify someone.
Standard disclaimer: I work for Honda but they don't necessarily share my views.
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I live in California where you can't carry kids in the front, the caveat is, provided there is a back seat. In this case it is perfectly legal to have a child in the front, same as a regular cab pickup truck.
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Varmint
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Rhode Island has the same exemption. According to this page, the exemption also includes situations where all the rear seats are taken by smaller children.
http://www.dot.state.ri.us/programs/safety/laws.asp
However, the IIHS chart at this link does not make note of that exemption. (It does for California.)
http://www.iihs.org/laws/childrestraint.aspx
Anyway. I'm keeping the MDX for any trip further than around the corner.
On the off chance that I'm keeping readers here on the edge of their seats, I shall relieve the suspense. A new deal has been penned for a brand new CR-Z (different dealer). I got lazy and sent out inquiries through TRUECar. It worked.
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RocketRon
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If you are somehow still considering the Mini,
I'd like to mention that I would feel safer with the child seat at the front of a CR-Z than anywhere in a Mini. But that's just a gut feeling as I haven't analysed the numbers...
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Colin
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Varmint wrote:
On the off chance that I'm keeping readers here on the edge of their seats, I shall relieve the suspense. A new deal has been penned for a brand new CR-Z (different dealer). I got lazy and sent out inquiries through TRUECar. It worked.
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A77
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I remember my son when he was about 8 asking why he had to sit in the back.
"becuase it is safer in the back than the front"
"So if we are in an accident i am more likely to survive than you daddy?"
"Um..(where is this going....?)....I guess"
"Well if you die i don't want to live so can I please sit up front?"
Kids....in Europe they have the ISO fix latch hooks in the front passenger seat as well as in the back. i was amazed to see that even something as sophisticated as a Q5 has an air bag off switch for when the front seat is used with kids. Can't imagine the liability implications of that in the US...
In canada it is perfectly legal to have kids in the front seat where rear seats are "not available". How otherwsie would kids go in pickups. My own view as that as long as the airbag is off - and on hondas there's a very obvious light saying so, than i wouldnt worry. far safer int he front of a CRZ than in the vast majority of cars sitting anywhere 20 years ago. And safer in the front of a CRZ than many other cars still on the road today in the back. But my view doesnt matter. all depends on what you think of course. kids would be safer still if we got them to wear crash helmets in cars. In fact if we all wore crash helmets, used full race harnesses etc. Just totally impractical. When I lived in Asia all the locals thought we were mad going through the hassle of restraining our kids in child seats before going anywhere. when they just plopped the kid on their lap, even on a motorbike.
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HONDA AFVM
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Varmint wrote:
Rhode Island has the same exemption. According to this page, the exemption also includes situations where all the rear seats are taken by smaller children.
http://www.dot.state.ri.us/programs/safety/laws.asp
However, the IIHS chart at this link does not make note of that exemption. (It does for California.)
http://www.iihs.org/laws/childrestraint.aspx
Anyway. I'm keeping the MDX for any trip further than around the corner.
On the off chance that I'm keeping readers here on the edge of their seats, I shall relieve the suspense. A new deal has been penned for a brand new CR-Z (different dealer). I got lazy and sent out inquiries through TRUECar. It worked.
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0.9% started yesterday.......Buy new..........
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Inebriated Snake
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Probably unrealistic but maybe you could install euro/jp rear seats that have latch anchors? Or check out the Fit Hybrid if it lands here with a MT. It should have a hopefully similar driving experience to the CR-Z.
I think Honda's answer would be that you should buy an Insight if you want a hybrid hatch with rear seats.
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Varmint
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
0.9% started yesterday.......Buy new..........
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Yup. Signed this morning. The car should be delivered mid-week. Paid $20,600 + TTL. The finance rate was icing on the cake.
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danielgr
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Varmint wrote:
HONDA AFVM wrote:
0.9% started yesterday.......Buy new..........
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Yup. Signed this morning. The car should be delivered mid-week. Paid $20,600 + TTL. The finance rate was icing on the cake.
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Welcome to the CR-Z owners "club"; hope you enjoy it as much as many like me do.
Today I just crossed the 30,000 km mark; gave it its first Honda visit (other than oil-changes). Waiting for its first anniversary to write something on it.
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Nehring
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@Varmint
As a fellow father and car nut I often have to balance what the driver in me wants (can afford is also a big factor) and what is most practical for a family. The fact that you first brought up placing a five year old in the front seat, notifies everyone on the board that you are a caring father that places his child first. You already know that it is not the best choice for her to ride up front. Ultimately we have to place our 2 seat dreams on hold until tour kids are about 10+. If some people think that is being too cautious then so be it. It is our jobs as parents to be overly cautious, even for short trips. You always buckle in your kid, place them in a child seat (later a booster seat) and drive a bit more like a grandma then a weekend auto crosser.
I am personally considered a used six speed first gen TSX. You might consider waiting for the new Acura model which rumors are stating might be a 4 door hatch based on the Euro Civic.
In the end you are her father. It is your call.
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