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  TOV News > All-New, More-Refined 2012 Honda Civic Improves with Purposeful Technology for Personalization... > > Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy'

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Blue_Sky_surfer
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2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 03:02
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Mitsuru Horikoshi, project leader for the 2012 Honda Civic, had the difficult task of changing the car just before r&d sign-off. The new mission: Streamline the car and improve its fuel efficiency. [...]

Q: So, a lot of the 2012 Civic is carryover, then?

No. About 80 percent of the car is new parts. And if you take out the powertrain, then it's 90 percent new parts. Recent crash regulations have become tougher. If we had only installed countermeasures, the vehicle would have become heavier. But we wanted to make the vehicle lighter for fuel economy.

Q: What are some of the fuel economy ideas you are most proud of?

If you look under the car, you will see the underfloor aerodynamic measures. Also the radiator opening area and the height of the trunk -- in terms of the relationship between the roofline and the trunk -- is really good for aerodynamics.

Q: Do you feel disappointed you didn't hit the magic number of 40 mpg freeway mileage?

Our real concern is when the customer actually drives the car, we don't want him to see a gap between the EPA number and his own mpg figures. We want the customer to see the improvements for himself. With the "econ" switch and the fuel economy coaching [on the instrument display], that can assist with good driving. I think we have achieved a competitive product.

Q: How much better fuel economy do you get in econ mode compared with the EPA test cycle?

The EPA mode requires a specific throttle opening. Doing the EPA test in econ mode wouldn't affect things much. But for people who have more variations in speed and acceleration, if you flatten that out, you don't have that rough throttle occurring, and you get much better mileage. If an automaker is hung up on the EPA test cycle, they can make a manual transmission with wide gear ratios. But it's difficult to drive that kind of car in everyday conditions.


Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110420/OEM04/110419871/1168/BLOG06#ixzz1K8eiNYGI
tgo63
Profile for tgo63
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 12:31
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I did not see MPG numbers for manula transmission; anyone knows the link? I drive 2007 honda accord lx 5 speed manual and cannot understand why honda did not put 6th overdrive gear in this vehicle. Still getting average 32 MPG but feel like the motor could turn about 200 rpm's less at 700 MPH
ipribadi
Profile for ipribadi
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 13:10
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700 MPH !!!
What kinda tricked out accord do you have!?!

Kidding aside, nowadays I think Honda has geared the MT tranny not for FE but for performance.
Those who purchase the MT version is typically after driving pleasure not ulitimate FE, so the 5MT has a relatively short top gear.
Now with a 6MT you can have your cake and eat it too.
carzak
Profile for carzak
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 13:11
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Stressed it as far as the bean-counters would let him, I guess.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/impressions/2012-honda-civic

"Honda says that going to a 6-speed and direct injection could vault it into the 40-mpg range, but deemed it not worth the extra cost."

Too bad... the Civic could have been able to boast standard fuel economy as good or better than the special trims of the other car makers. Now it's just "competitive."
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 14:46
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carzak wrote:
Stressed it as far as the bean-counters would let him, I guess.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/impressions/2012-honda-civic

"Honda says that going to a 6-speed and direct injection could vault it into the 40-mpg range, but deemed it not worth the extra cost."

Too bad... the Civic could have been able to boast standard fuel economy as good or better than the special trims of the other car makers. Now it's just "competitive."


Yeah, but other than the obvious marketing advantage of hitting 40, there is little practical difference between 39 and 40.
P54
Profile for P54
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 15:15
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You can always buy the HF at 41mpg. Or get the hybrid at 44 mpg city. Anyway, the difference of 39 to 40 mpg is less than 10 gallons if you drive 15000 miles a year. How people drive their cars in the real world will make a bigger impact than EPA 39 or 40mpg.
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 16:13
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carzak wrote:
Stressed it as far as the bean-counters would let him, I guess.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/impressions/2012-honda-civic

"Honda says that going to a 6-speed and direct injection could vault it into the 40-mpg range, but deemed it not worth the extra cost."

Too bad... the Civic could have been able to boast standard fuel economy as good or better than the special trims of the other car makers. Now it's just "competitive."

I agree it's not worth the cost, if it takes that much investment and technology to reach 40-mpg when simply putting some old hybrid wheels and spare parts on the HF gives it 41-mpg. And since people have concerns that $800 is a bit much to spend on the HF over the LX, I don't think people would be very accepting of any more price increases.
carzak
Profile for carzak
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 18:24
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Colin wrote:
carzak wrote:
Stressed it as far as the bean-counters would let him, I guess.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/impressions/2012-honda-civic

"Honda says that going to a 6-speed and direct injection could vault it into the 40-mpg range, but deemed it not worth the extra cost."

Too bad... the Civic could have been able to boast standard fuel economy as good or better than the special trims of the other car makers. Now it's just "competitive."


Yeah, but other than the obvious marketing advantage of hitting 40, there is little practical difference between 39 and 40.



I take it that by "vault it into the 40 mpg range" they mean more than 40 mpg.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 19:05
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ipribadi wrote:
700 MPH !!!
...
Those who purchase the MT version is typically after driving pleasure not ulitimate FE, so the 5MT has a relatively short top gear.
Now with a 6MT you can have your cake and eat it too.



Not always. Historically the MT car is cheaper. So often you'll see an MT5 (MT4 for US Automakers) in the stripper model.

It is true, nonetheless, than getting a nice MT6 is a treat. Even our Fit Sport with MT5/Navi is a blast to drive.



SoichirosHeroes
Profile for SoichirosHeroes
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-21-2011 19:52
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Blue_Sky_surfer wrote:
Mitsuru Horikoshi, project leader for the 2012 Honda Civic, had the difficult task of changing the car just before r&d sign-off. The new mission: Streamline the car and improve its fuel efficiency. [...]

Q: So, a lot of the 2012 Civic is carryover, then?

No. About 80 percent of the car is new parts. And if you take out the powertrain, then it's 90 percent new parts. Recent crash regulations have become tougher. If we had only installed countermeasures, the vehicle would have become heavier. But we wanted to make the vehicle lighter for fuel economy.

Q: What are some of the fuel economy ideas you are most proud of?

If you look under the car, you will see the underfloor aerodynamic measures. Also the radiator opening area and the height of the trunk -- in terms of the relationship between the roofline and the trunk -- is really good for aerodynamics.

Q: Do you feel disappointed you didn't hit the magic number of 40 mpg freeway mileage?

Our real concern is when the customer actually drives the car, we don't want him to see a gap between the EPA number and his own mpg figures. We want the customer to see the improvements for himself. With the "econ" switch and the fuel economy coaching [on the instrument display], that can assist with good driving. I think we have achieved a competitive product.

Q: How much better fuel economy do you get in econ mode compared with the EPA test cycle?

The EPA mode requires a specific throttle opening. Doing the EPA test in econ mode wouldn't affect things much. But for people who have more variations in speed and acceleration, if you flatten that out, you don't have that rough throttle occurring, and you get much better mileage. If an automaker is hung up on the EPA test cycle, they can make a manual transmission with wide gear ratios. But it's difficult to drive that kind of car in everyday conditions.


Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110420/OEM04/110419871/1168/BLOG06#ixzz1K8eiNYGI



Great find. It seems much is aimed at the Chevy Cruze Eco with it's 6MT and that gaudy 42 MPGs it gets. He pretty much says GM 'gamed' the EPA test in many ways. I think that's true when you see that the 6AT Cruze Eco can muster just 26/37 when the 6MT gets 28/42. That's 5 MPGs with the help of that 6MT on the EPA test.

Say what you will though, the Cruze Eco pretty much single-handedly forced the HF into being.
tgo63
Profile for tgo63
Re: 2012 Honda Civic's project leader stressed 'everyday fuel economy' [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-22-2011 10:34
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tgo63 wrote:
I did not see MPG numbers for manula transmission; anyone knows the link? I drive 2007 honda accord lx 5 speed manual and cannot understand why honda did not put 6th overdrive gear in this vehicle. Still getting average 32 MPG but feel like the motor could turn about 200 rpm's less at 700 MPH

I meant 70 not 700 :-) In my opinion adding 6th gear to manual gearbox would not be very expensive? And I also think that 6th overdrive gear could save more then 1 MPH. I agree that most of the manual tranny buyers enjoy spirited driving but interstate and spirited driving do not go hand in hand?
 
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