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Harvey Jr
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I think this question is more prudent now than ever. Though there have been many other times this could have been said, I think that is a turning point for Acura, now more than ever.
Let's start by looking at the facts. The RL evolved from the Legend, for better or worse, was Acura's sales leader until the TL and RL monikers began. TL has been the chief source of income for the better part of a decade now for Acura, while the RL has steadily declined in sales while steadily getting more expensive.
So, here we are. The RL sells in the low triple digits monthly, and the TL is seeing it's worst monthly performances for nearly two years now on the back of an entirely new model change introduction.
Facts are, the TL isn't recovering it's lost sales from the economic downturn. And, to add insult to injury, it is being outsold by Acura's own MDX which is both more expensive and part of a much smaller market. This illustrates how well the MDX was executed, and how far the TL has missed it's mark, following closely in the footsteps of the RL.
How does Acura justify debuting aggressive new technology in the RL, a model that has been on it's last legs for years now, and is practically irrelevant in the current market? Shouldn't the TL, especially now, receive that developmental love?
Seriously, how could they justify such with the RL while the TL is clearly missing on so many points. The reality is that the TL offers a LOT for the money, and in this climate should be growing in sales, if not making huge strides. On paper, it seems to have it all for an incredible price, yet, it can't outsell a revitalized Buick, or a PR ravaged Lexus.
The TL and RL are not bad cars at all. Actually, they're both stellar vehicles, and offer great values.
However, the TL, in my opinion, is far more important, now more than ever.
At this point, I think Acura should shelve further development to the RL until the TL is fixed, even if it calls for an emergency FMC. They have everything to gain, and everything to loose.
Any other thoughts?
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80honda
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The MDX outselling the TL makes sense to me. I for one have never owned a sedan, probably never will. Let's face it, people like roomy comfortable CUVs.
Same at Lexus. The RX is by far their best seller.
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longhorn
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It will be interesting to see if the RL will compete in the S-Class,LS400,7 series segment. Infiniti has decided not to compete there and is satified topping out at the E-Class, 5 series segment. Are you suggesting that Acura should do the same?
If the RL competes with the midsize lux market, then the next gen TL can move back to its original target (and size) of targeting entry level lux market, the 3 series, and C-class. But then what do you do with the TSX? and the new sub TSX model? The Honda product planners have a tough road ahead of them.
To answer which is more important? Depends, the RL will set the new "smart luxury" tone and perhaps a new design language. The top model debuts the new tech and it trickles down from there,so the next years debut of the RL is very important.
The TL is a money maker for Acura and brings much needed volume to dealers. I guess an argument could be made the TL is more important.
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ballermd
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You all have good points. Fact is, times have changed since the "legendary" Legend was Acura's bread-and-butter model and even since the TL was it. I don't think that the TL is such a total failure that it "missed the mark". It really is a fine car, I just think that aside from its biggest problem - styling, it has an identity crisis. It's supposed to compete with the 3-series, G sedan, etc, yet it's too big, and its top of the line model is more powerful than the flagship RL. Then you have the TSX, which has almost grown to the previous generation TL's size and now offers a V6. Exactly where does it fit into the market in turns of competition and its own brand line up? It's confusing.
Then you have the MDX. Let's face it, Americans love excess. And now that the financial crisis has leveled off and gas prices have stabilized a bit, folks are flocking back to SUVs/CUVs. Like 80Honda, I'm not surprised the MDX is doing so well. It's an excellent package and one of the better looking SUVs on the market. With it's powertrain improvements and other MMC tweaks, it's even more of an excellent bargain to beat in its segment.
I also agree with Harvey Jr that the RL should be shelved for the moment. The TL has already moved in on its territory and with the next FMC, I think the TL should be positioned to compete head on with the E-class, 5-series and Infiniti M. Like Infiniti, I don't think Acura is ready to do battle in the S-Class/7-series arena yet. The TSX should be direct competitors to the 3-series, C-class, G sedan and IS... As for the sub-TSX model, I'm not sure what to think about it. The current Acura sedan models are pretty much shape-shifted Accords. It's pretty much a consensus that this sub-TSX model will be based off the next generation Civic, but what will Acura be able to do that will make it anything more than a Civic in a tuxedo? It must sit under the current TSX, which IMO, is as entry-level as you can get.
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ipribadi
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TSX competes with 3, C, A4 in size but at 1, A3, IS price (sub $40K)
TL competes with 5, E, A6 in size but at 3, C, A4 price (sub $50K).
So .... RL should compete with 7, S, A8, LS is size but at 5, E, A6, GS price (sub $65K)
and ... sub TSX should compete with 1, A3, IS in size but at sub $30K pricing.
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Kaiso King
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I may be mistaken but I think that we are looking at two or more distinct markets. The TL is strickly an automobile made for North America. The Honda Legend (RL in North America) is destined for many other shores. They are now making a very big push into China. Maybe in its next offering, RL will be rebranded the Legend and Acura may recapture some of the first enthusiasts they attracted back in 86. I for one hope that it is not too late.
Currently I own a 2007 TL, wonderful car. I have owned a 92 Legend and a 98 RL. I loved that Legend, a great car. The RL was a good car but nothing special. I believe that the current version of the RL is one fantastic car and value. It does suffer from lack of back seat space and may be just another face in the crowd. However, all the reviews I have read have all praised the carwith enthusiasticly. It seems that in North America the RL is an after thought to many people because it is an all wheel drive six cylinder automobile. Many people who post here seem to believe that unless it a RWD RL with a V8 motor it is not worth a second look.
To answer the question. I would say that both cars are important to the company. In North America the TL is the car, while in other markets it is the RL.
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TSX69
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Since the TL is kind of a tweener b/n the likes of the 3 & 5 series ... perhaps the RL will slot b/n the 5 & 7 series ... a longbase version could be offered.
The TL is probably important to Acura bc it brings in the sales/$ but the RL holds the spot of flagship & as long as it sold as the Legend elsewhere, it helps make up R&D costs for the lack of US sales (if it were an exclusive Acura product, it would probably be gone by now).
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lexusgs
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I think right now the future RL is probably more important to Acura as it should be the car to define the brand and the future of Acura, which is suffering from a brand identity right now.
The RL could be the car to put Acura back at the top of performance, luxury, and styling and make people forget about the current TL, RL, RDX, and ZDX . Considering the next RL does not appear to be getting a rwd platform, a v8 option, and may just get stuck being Accord based again with a v6 I am not holding out much hope it will be great or very competitive but Acura has the chance to make it great if they really try and put the effort in and not let the bean counters and the "greenies" ruin the car.
Fact is Acura needs a true unique flagship luxury/performance car for people to aspire to and define the brand and the TL or ZDX is not it. Acura still needs something to truly compete with the E class, 5 series, A6, and GS and without a rwd platform, more power, a v8 option, or a more luxury focused interior the TL cannot compete with those cars in that class even if it may be as big and has most of their features.
Getting rid of the beak, cleaning up the front and rear styling, and giving the TL a 6 speed auto and maybe some more power would address most of the TLs complaints and could heavily boost sales but would still not address Acura's lack of vehicles competitive in higher end segments which is why Acura needs the next RL to be a home run and should not abandon it unless they want to see their image further dwindle. A successful and well received flagship RL or Legend will give a big boost to their image and give them incentive and confidence to enter more upmarket segments like coming out with some coupes and sports cars and a true LS or 7 series competitor.
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Spearsoft
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The fact that they are taking their time with the new RL shows that they are beginning to understand the importance of a strong flagship.
The truth is, it's important to many people, even if they're buying the cheaper models in the line.
It's silly, given the value proposition, but it's the way the market is. They can't survive for long in the in-between spot they're in, and they can't move back down (in luxury terms) to where they used to be because that market just doesn't exist anymore, Honda has taken that, so they need to move upmarket.
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ballermd
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lexusgs wrote:
I think right now the future RL is probably more important to Acura as it should be the car to define the brand and the future of Acura, which is suffering from a brand identity right now.
The RL could be the car to put Acura back at the top of performance, luxury, and styling and make people forget about the current TL, RL, RDX, and ZDX . Considering the next RL does not appear to be getting a rwd platform, a v8 option, and may just get stuck being Accord based again with a v6 I am not holding out much hope it will be great or very competitive but Acura has the chance to make it great if they really try and put the effort in and not let the bean counters and the "greenies" ruin the car.
Fact is Acura needs a true unique flagship luxury/performance car for people to aspire to and define the brand and the TL or ZDX is not it. Acura still needs something to truly compete with the E class, 5 series, A6, and GS and without a rwd platform, more power, a v8 option, or a more luxury focused interior the TL cannot compete with those cars in that class even if it may be as big and has most of their features.
Getting rid of the beak, cleaning up the front and rear styling, and giving the TL a 6 speed auto and maybe some more power would address most of the TLs complaints and could heavily boost sales but would still not address Acura's lack of vehicles competitive in higher end segments which is why Acura needs the next RL to be a home run and should not abandon it unless they want to see their image further dwindle. A successful and well received flagship RL or Legend will give a big boost to their image and give them incentive and confidence to enter more upmarket segments like coming out with some coupes and sports cars and a true LS or 7 series competitor.
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This is exactly why the RL should be discontinued (at least in the US market). It's not getting a rwd platform. It's not getting a V8 option, and with Acura's new emphasis on fuel efficiency, I don't see it getting much bigger. So, with all this in mind, what is it that Acura can do to the RL to make it a true unique flagship luxury/performance car? Please, please, please tell me? I can't think of anything they can do that will make this a true competitor to the 5-series, E-class, etc. I just don't. Unless the next gen. RL is drop-dead gorgeous, I don't see it selling very well.
But tell me this, if Hyundai (who, mind you, entered the US market the same year Acura did - and was the laughing stock of the auto industry) can offer V8 RWD luxury sedans in today's market, why can't Acura? I don't understand the resistance by Acura execs to truly go all the way and make Acura a serious luxury brand. It was the first Asian luxury marque in the US. Yet it now trails Lexus and Infiniti in terms of having a strong brand identity, having diverse model ranges, and being regarded as a true luxury brand. It just puzzles me...
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Kaiso King
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They must be doing something right because they are the most profitable of all Japanese car companies. Americans love big gas gussling v8s but the rest of the world don't. Even the brands that offer v8s realize that these engines make up a very small part of their sales.
Whether we like it or not Honda says that they will not offer v8s and with the looming CAFE standards, who really needs a v8. Tell me would you buy one?
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TampaRL
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Most important? In what manner? profit? Sales volume? Brand recognition? Showcasing brand technology and features?
The RL was baked over 6 years ago. Without it most of the Acura lineup would not be what it is today. Some technology and features have trickled into the Honda brand. SHAWD, ACE body structure, use of aluminum components, AcuraLink Telematics, etc. That is what flagship cars are supposed to do. That is important.
Acura planned to shift the entire lineup upmarket. Hence the RSX was dropped, the TSX overlaps the former TL and the new TL overlaps the RL. The PLAN was to make the RL a higher end flagship with a V8, RWD, etc. But the world changed. So the next RL will have to take a new direction. In the mean time there is overlap with the TL. That does not justify killing or shelving the RL. Car company timelines are not as agile as our personal agendas. So the TL and RL can coexist and not completely compete.
The TL and RL are different cars. They are style, tuned and refined for different pleasures. Since the RL has paid for itself, why not continue producing, if limited for those who do appreciate it as it is. To the dismay of TL owners who need 'King of the World' affirmation....not everyone thinks the TL is a better car. Meanwhile the Honda LEGEND also soldiers on, and like it or not, these two cars and markets are codependent. It has been a benefit and constraint of the Honda / Acura co branding.
Why hasn't Acura built a RWD V8? Because Acura does not engineer and build cars. Honda does. Acura is a brand and a market and even though now we have Acura only models (TL, MDX, RDX, ZDX) and Acura styling,,,,the engineering and construction costs are all Honda. Simply put, Acura has not the resources to build a unique platformed vehicle. Like it or not, Honda holds those cards.
The RL indeed needs a new model and a change. That change will likely reflect a new path for Acura. The over-styled, over sized and efficiency compromised Acura was a product of excess. It was also Acura's arrogance to slight Honda's conservative philosophy. What we got was over-styled larger cars with in your face (read ugly) brand recognition delivered at the wrong time for the market to tolerate. The next RL will be a change, and Honda's attempt to use the Acura brand to redefine what a flagship and the Acura brand is about.
Expect performance, expect technology, expect IMA assist integration and expect it not to be excessive in styling or size. Smart Luxury is to be defined and only the market will affirm that. And the market is much larger than the enthusiasts market. Any change Acura makes in the current market will be a gamble. But considering the current discord in the brand products and styling, I will bet any change can be for the better.
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akal50
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I think Acura should follow the Lexus model. The LS is regarded as one of the best luxury cars out there. Even though most Lexus buyers will opt for the bread-and-butter cars like the ES and RX, the LS is meant show just what Lexus is capable of. That's the problem with the RL. People, at least the ones who are even aware of it, perceive it as a dressed up Accord. No V8, not a huge car (even the Accord is longer), and no distinctive styling. It truly is an invisible car. The TL could easily be fixed if they just redo the front and back and drop that Power Plenum grill from the entire lineup. As someone who's owned a TL, the only thing that kept me from getting another one was the way it looks. I suspect there are a lot of other buyers who were turned off by its exterior.
As for the RL, it might be too late. But Acura should make it a true competitor to the LS. Even Hyundai is coming out with their LS clone. Whether people will pay 55K for a Hyundai is another story. The point is that they're willing to try. Acura seems to have given up and resigned itself to a second-tier luxury brand. With that attitude, is it any wonder that no one buys the RL or even knows about it.
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roninsi02
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Isn't if funny that Americans get the gas guzzler loving label yet Germany and Italy produce quite a few big engined super cars?
Kaiso King wrote:
They must be doing something right because they are the most profitable of all Japanese car companies. Americans love big gas gussling v8s but the rest of the world don't. Even the brands that offer v8s realize that these engines make up a very small part of their sales.
Whether we like it or not Honda says that they will not offer v8s and with the looming CAFE standards, who really needs a v8. Tell me would you buy one?
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aznxthuggie
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Honda being the the most profitable doesn't affect me at all.
I don't see a cent of any profit honda makes so I don't give a crap. As long as they're making nice vehicles that I want and are doing fine financially (aka not going under) i'll be fine.
Btw the new RL will not be a "new path" for acura. It will be the exact same path they've been on the whole time, nice hondas with better technology and more power. They simply attempted to divert their path at the absolute worse time possible. Unless they absolutely crush the competition in various ways, there will be NOTHING new about it in terms of direction. They simply jumped back onto their original path.
As long as honda has its iron grasp on acura, acura will ALWAYS be a compromise in luxury.
To answer the original question, I think the TL is more important to Acura, but the RL is more important to the honda as a whole.
Also, IMO, acura should have tried a numeric moniker for its cars (higher number = better car) so that it's easier for the public to understand. If you say TSX, TL, RL etc etc, no one would know which vehicle is what, or where it is in the lineup.
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lexusgs
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ballermd wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
I think right now the future RL is probably more important to Acura as it should be the car to define the brand and the future of Acura, which is suffering from a brand identity right now.
The RL could be the car to put Acura back at the top of performance, luxury, and styling and make people forget about the current TL, RL, RDX, and ZDX . Considering the next RL does not appear to be getting a rwd platform, a v8 option, and may just get stuck being Accord based again with a v6 I am not holding out much hope it will be great or very competitive but Acura has the chance to make it great if they really try and put the effort in and not let the bean counters and the "greenies" ruin the car.
Fact is Acura needs a true unique flagship luxury/performance car for people to aspire to and define the brand and the TL or ZDX is not it. Acura still needs something to truly compete with the E class, 5 series, A6, and GS and without a rwd platform, more power, a v8 option, or a more luxury focused interior the TL cannot compete with those cars in that class even if it may be as big and has most of their features.
Getting rid of the beak, cleaning up the front and rear styling, and giving the TL a 6 speed auto and maybe some more power would address most of the TLs complaints and could heavily boost sales but would still not address Acura's lack of vehicles competitive in higher end segments which is why Acura needs the next RL to be a home run and should not abandon it unless they want to see their image further dwindle. A successful and well received flagship RL or Legend will give a big boost to their image and give them incentive and confidence to enter more upmarket segments like coming out with some coupes and sports cars and a true LS or 7 series competitor.
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This is exactly why the RL should be discontinued (at least in the US market). It's not getting a rwd platform. It's not getting a V8 option, and with Acura's new emphasis on fuel efficiency, I don't see it getting much bigger. So, with all this in mind, what is it that Acura can do to the RL to make it a true unique flagship luxury/performance car? Please, please, please tell me? I can't think of anything they can do that will make this a true competitor to the 5-series, E-class, etc. I just don't. Unless the next gen. RL is drop-dead gorgeous, I don't see it selling very well.
But tell me this, if Hyundai (who, mind you, entered the US market the same year Acura did - and was the laughing stock of the auto industry) can offer V8 RWD luxury sedans in today's market, why can't Acura? I don't understand the resistance by Acura execs to truly go all the way and make Acura a serious luxury brand. It was the first Asian luxury marque in the US. Yet it now trails Lexus and Infiniti in terms of having a strong brand identity, having diverse model ranges, and being regarded as a true luxury brand. It just puzzles me...
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The RL should not be discontinued. Acura needs a vehicle that focuses more on luxury then mainly being sporty and techy. Hopefully people at Honda come to their senses and let Acura use the rwd platform they were testing and at least offer a v8 option for buyers who want power and not something green. Thing is a rwd RL with a v8 could be much more fuel efficient then the current RL because it would most likely weigh less and have less drivetrain loss.
With the next RL Acura can do something much different then the TL by making it very good looking, having a very upscale interior with plenty of "real" wood trim and full of features you can't get in other Acuras. The interior should be much roomier. If they are not going to give it a v8 option then they would have to at least give it a new v6 that is most likely turbocharged to around 400hp to compete with the competitions v8s but that is doubtful. They can still come out with something interesting and much better then the current one but without rwd or a v8 option that is going to be really tough.
I am not sure why Acura does not have a rwd platform or at least a v8 option by now but back in the late 80's it is understandable why they did not or could not have rwd/v8 since Honda never had any experience with production v8s or rwd sedans. It was much easier for Lexus and Infiniti to offer v8 rwd sedans since they already sold rwd v8 cars like the LS and Q45 for many years and had all the experience and tooling to do so. That was not the case with Honda but by now they should offer at least one rwd sedan or coupe and a v8 option.
It is pretty bad Hyundai has a v8 rwd luxury sedan before Acura but Hyundai has offered a car like the Genesis and Equus in Korea for several years and the Genesis sedan has sold pretty poorly and is not something Acura should try to copy. The Equus is more likely going to be a even bigger sales flop then the Genesis sedan.
You do have to give Acura credit in that they did build a mid engined exotic Ferrari fighter not too long after they debuted that changed the way super cars/exotics were made which was a much bigger deal then just some big rwd S class competitor.
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Nick GravesX
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TampaRL wrote:
Most important? In what manner? profit? Sales volume? Brand recognition? Showcasing brand technology and features?
The RL was baked over 6 years ago. Without it most of the Acura lineup would not be what it is today. Some technology and features have trickled into the Honda brand. SHAWD, ACE body structure, use of aluminum components, AcuraLink Telematics, etc. That is what flagship cars are supposed to do. That is important.
Acura planned to shift the entire lineup upmarket. Hence the RSX was dropped, the TSX overlaps the former TL and the new TL overlaps the RL. The PLAN was to make the RL a higher end flagship with a V8, RWD, etc. But the world changed. So the next RL will have to take a new direction. In the mean time there is overlap with the TL. That does not justify killing or shelving the RL. Car company timelines are not as agile as our personal agendas. So the TL and RL can coexist and not completely compete.
The TL and RL are different cars. They are style, tuned and refined for different pleasures. Since the RL has paid for itself, why not continue producing, if limited for those who do appreciate it as it is. To the dismay of TL owners who need 'King of the World' affirmation....not everyone thinks the TL is a better car. Meanwhile the Honda LEGEND also soldiers on, and like it or not, these two cars and markets are codependent. It has been a benefit and constraint of the Honda / Acura co branding.
Why hasn't Acura built a RWD V8? Because Acura does not engineer and build cars. Honda does. Acura is a brand and a market and even though now we have Acura only models (TL, MDX, RDX, ZDX) and Acura styling,,,,the engineering and construction costs are all Honda. Simply put, Acura has not the resources to build a unique platformed vehicle. Like it or not, Honda holds those cards.
The RL indeed needs a new model and a change. That change will likely reflect a new path for Acura. The over-styled, over sized and efficiency compromised Acura was a product of excess. It was also Acura's arrogance to slight Honda's conservative philosophy. What we got was over-styled larger cars with in your face (read ugly) brand recognition delivered at the wrong time for the market to tolerate. The next RL will be a change, and Honda's attempt to use the Acura brand to redefine what a flagship and the Acura brand is about.
Expect performance, expect technology, expect IMA assist integration and expect it not to be excessive in styling or size. Smart Luxury is to be defined and only the market will affirm that. And the market is much larger than the enthusiasts market. Any change Acura makes in the current market will be a gamble. But considering the current discord in the brand products and styling, I will bet any change can be for the better.
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Perfectly summarised!
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JeffreynLA
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Tampa, very well said!!
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Chas2
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As usual, well said!
TampaRL wrote:
Most important? In what manner? profit? Sales volume? Brand recognition? Showcasing brand technology and features?
The RL was baked over 6 years ago. Without it most of the Acura lineup would not be what it is today. Some technology and features have trickled into the Honda brand. SHAWD, ACE body structure, use of aluminum components, AcuraLink Telematics, etc. That is what flagship cars are supposed to do. That is important.
Acura planned to shift the entire lineup upmarket. Hence the RSX was dropped, the TSX overlaps the former TL and the new TL overlaps the RL. The PLAN was to make the RL a higher end flagship with a V8, RWD, etc. But the world changed. So the next RL will have to take a new direction. In the mean time there is overlap with the TL. That does not justify killing or shelving the RL. Car company timelines are not as agile as our personal agendas. So the TL and RL can coexist and not completely compete.
The TL and RL are different cars. They are style, tuned and refined for different pleasures. Since the RL has paid for itself, why not continue producing, if limited for those who do appreciate it as it is. To the dismay of TL owners who need 'King of the World' affirmation....not everyone thinks the TL is a better car. Meanwhile the Honda LEGEND also soldiers on, and like it or not, these two cars and markets are codependent. It has been a benefit and constraint of the Honda / Acura co branding.
Why hasn't Acura built a RWD V8? Because Acura does not engineer and build cars. Honda does. Acura is a brand and a market and even though now we have Acura only models (TL, MDX, RDX, ZDX) and Acura styling,,,,the engineering and construction costs are all Honda. Simply put, Acura has not the resources to build a unique platformed vehicle. Like it or not, Honda holds those cards.
The RL indeed needs a new model and a change. That change will likely reflect a new path for Acura. The over-styled, over sized and efficiency compromised Acura was a product of excess. It was also Acura's arrogance to slight Honda's conservative philosophy. What we got was over-styled larger cars with in your face (read ugly) brand recognition delivered at the wrong time for the market to tolerate. The next RL will be a change, and Honda's attempt to use the Acura brand to redefine what a flagship and the Acura brand is about.
Expect performance, expect technology, expect IMA assist integration and expect it not to be excessive in styling or size. Smart Luxury is to be defined and only the market will affirm that. And the market is much larger than the enthusiasts market. Any change Acura makes in the current market will be a gamble. But considering the current discord in the brand products and styling, I will bet any change can be for the better.
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Grizzly
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The TL seems to have impinged into the market space of the RL more than in previous generations, so my guess is the RL will probably take a bit of a different direction than in the previous two generations. The next generation cannot be in the vein of the Lexus LS, 7 series, S-class, etc. because it will lose. And by lose, I mean losing in terms of sales goals, perception, customer mind share, etc. And it might not lose because of it being an inferior product necessarily, as much as a combination of product, perception, marketing, and brand strength.
Acura (as well as Honda) seems to look for "dark" spaces in the product market where there is little to no competition. The ZDX, Ridgeline (car-based truck), and Element are all examples of this. Having little to no competition means that there is less downward price pressure. So, I see them making the next RL unique in this way. It will be a "tweener" and it may be hard to name exactly who its direct competitors will be just like it is somewhat difficult to classify the TL.
It's hard to tell exactly what that will mean, but my guesses fall along 2 different paths.
1) A "4-door coupe". You would see similar mechanicals as today, but perhaps with the IMA as standard or optional. In this way, the RL would be differentiated from the TL by styling and interior materials most likely.
2) Something along the lines of the Cadillac XTS concept (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/detroit-2010-cadillac-xts-platinum-concept/), which would still slot below the traditional flagship-type cars of other brands in terms of price. Again, basically the same mechanicals with an IMA as likely.
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aznxthuggie
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I don't think honda will allow the worldwide legend to change as much as acura wanted to. This is my guess obviously, but the legend is a worldwide car, and the US only sells 200 or so a month.
There's just no way honda would allow acura to change the way the legend is. If anything, the RL will just be a tweaked version of the evolution of the next honda legend. That's assuming it's still based on the legend.
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ballermd
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TampaRL wrote:
Most important? In what manner? profit? Sales volume? Brand recognition? Showcasing brand technology and features?
The RL was baked over 6 years ago. Without it most of the Acura lineup would not be what it is today. Some technology and features have trickled into the Honda brand. SHAWD, ACE body structure, use of aluminum components, AcuraLink Telematics, etc. That is what flagship cars are supposed to do. That is important.
Acura planned to shift the entire lineup upmarket. Hence the RSX was dropped, the TSX overlaps the former TL and the new TL overlaps the RL. The PLAN was to make the RL a higher end flagship with a V8, RWD, etc. But the world changed. So the next RL will have to take a new direction. In the mean time there is overlap with the TL. That does not justify killing or shelving the RL. Car company timelines are not as agile as our personal agendas. So the TL and RL can coexist and not completely compete.
The TL and RL are different cars. They are style, tuned and refined for different pleasures. Since the RL has paid for itself, why not continue producing, if limited for those who do appreciate it as it is. To the dismay of TL owners who need 'King of the World' affirmation....not everyone thinks the TL is a better car. Meanwhile the Honda LEGEND also soldiers on, and like it or not, these two cars and markets are codependent. It has been a benefit and constraint of the Honda / Acura co branding.
Why hasn't Acura built a RWD V8? Because Acura does not engineer and build cars. Honda does. Acura is a brand and a market and even though now we have Acura only models (TL, MDX, RDX, ZDX) and Acura styling,,,,the engineering and construction costs are all Honda. Simply put, Acura has not the resources to build a unique platformed vehicle. Like it or not, Honda holds those cards.
The RL indeed needs a new model and a change. That change will likely reflect a new path for Acura. The over-styled, over sized and efficiency compromised Acura was a product of excess. It was also Acura's arrogance to slight Honda's conservative philosophy. What we got was over-styled larger cars with in your face (read ugly) brand recognition delivered at the wrong time for the market to tolerate. The next RL will be a change, and Honda's attempt to use the Acura brand to redefine what a flagship and the Acura brand is about.
Expect performance, expect technology, expect IMA assist integration and expect it not to be excessive in styling or size. Smart Luxury is to be defined and only the market will affirm that. And the market is much larger than the enthusiasts market. Any change Acura makes in the current market will be a gamble. But considering the current discord in the brand products and styling, I will bet any change can be for the better.
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Very good points indeed. But dare they not take a gamble!!!! I mean, isn't that what entrepreneurship is all about? Taking a gamble? Isn't that what capitalism and our great country is built upon? Isn't that what Honda did back in 1986? Would we even be here and having this conversation if Columbus and all those other great eastern hemisphere explorers didn't take a gamble to cross the Atlantic? (I know this is a little melodramatic but I'm trying to make a point here...)
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longhorn
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I think Honda just answered this question
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/16/report-honda-to-kill-off-acura-rl-legend-globally-discontinue/
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