It seems like AHM is shutting down production and in the process is shutting down the combination of the MT5 with Navi except for the top of the line Accord V6 MT6 coupe and the Civic Si.
Now, while this may make some sense (some, only a little, very little) if AHM is trying to clean up production complexity in a challenging market, it still is screwy with the Civic and IDIOTIC when it comes to the Fit.
Seriously, I hope the "new" Honda sees through this idiocy and realizes that people buy MT setups because they prefer them. As it is, seriously, the current Honda line up is seriously wanting for me. I was thinking of picking up a second Fit with MT and Navi or maybe a Civic EX MT with Navi... No EX-L, please.
Instead, they waster all that money on the Crosstour, Jeez...
LudegarH22A7 wrote: After my 05TL Nav, I'm not a huge fan of the OEM navi units but that sucks nonetheless... Limiting options on MT models is anti-honda imho.
Actually, no. That had been standard AHM for a while. During the last few years they had relaxed a bit and allowed Navi to be mixed with less than top of the line models. It looks like they're back at it and you can only have Navi bundled with a bunch of crap. Just like the Odyssey line up for years...
However, I can't figure out why they'd do this to the Civic and the Fit. Those two are low powered to begin with and MT sales a big chunk. This will indeed hurt sales.
I guess I've never understood AHM's sales strategy. I'm just an engineer.
LudegarH22A7 wrote: After my 05TL Nav, I'm not a huge fan of the OEM navi units but that sucks nonetheless... Limiting options on MT models is anti-honda imho.
Actually, no. That had been standard AHM for a while. During the last few years they had relaxed a bit and allowed Navi to be mixed with less than top of the line models. It looks like they're back at it and you can only have Navi bundled with a bunch of crap. Just like the Odyssey line up for years...
However, I can't figure out why they'd do this to the Civic and the Fit. Those two are low powered to begin with and MT sales a big chunk. This will indeed hurt sales.
I guess I've never understood AHM's sales strategy. I'm just an engineer.
Are you referring to... I dunno... 86 and older perhaps? Fully loaded EX MT Accords and loaded Preludes have been around since the late 80's models. Hondas before then didn't come with much anyhow... regardless of trim level (not including S trim for the sake of this argument). Perhaps I'm mistaken, though?
TonyE wrote: It seems like AHM is shutting down production and in the process is shutting down the combination of the MT5 with Navi except for the top of the line Accord V6 MT6 coupe and the Civic Si.
Now, while this may make some sense (some, only a little, very little) if AHM is trying to clean up production complexity in a challenging market, it still is screwy with the Civic and IDIOTIC when it comes to the Fit.
Seriously, I hope the "new" Honda sees through this idiocy and realizes that people buy MT setups because they prefer them. As it is, seriously, the current Honda line up is seriously wanting for me. I was thinking of picking up a second Fit with MT and Navi or maybe a Civic EX MT with Navi... No EX-L, please.
Instead, they waster all that money on the Crosstour, Jeez...
On the other hand, if you go into your Acura dealer and want the new 6 speed Sh-Awd TL, you have to buy it with the $3,730 technology package. You can buy the automatic Sh-Awd TL with or without the Technology package.
Go figure!
TonyE wrote: It seems like AHM is shutting down production and in the process is shutting down the combination of the MT5 with Navi except for the top of the line Accord V6 MT6 coupe and the Civic Si.
Now, while this may make some sense (some, only a little, very little) if AHM is trying to clean up production complexity in a challenging market, it still is screwy with the Civic and IDIOTIC when it comes to the Fit.
Seriously, I hope the "new" Honda sees through this idiocy and realizes that people buy MT setups because they prefer them. As it is, seriously, the current Honda line up is seriously wanting for me. I was thinking of picking up a second Fit with MT and Navi or maybe a Civic EX MT with Navi... No EX-L, please.
Instead, they waster all that money on the Crosstour, Jeez...
On the other hand, if you go into your Acura dealer and want the new 6 speed Sh-Awd TL, you have to buy it with the $3,730 technology package. You can buy the automatic Sh-Awd TL with or without the Technology package.
Go figure!
That's because of recent AHM marketing fallacies:
FALLACY: At the top end, MT cars are purchased mostly by enthusiasts who want to load the car with toys.
(OK, this could be the dealers too and peculiar to the ugly as sin TL, but it follows with Accord and Civic.)
FALLACY: At the bottom end, MT cars are purchased by people who can not afford an AT.
FALLACY: Enthusiasts are not interested in bottom end cars.
I think this is the FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE that AHM is making. What made Honda cars in the US was that you could always get a nice, light, reliable and fun to drive car with an MT.
AHM somehow is Toyotazing the Honda brand name into a boring car company, meanwhile, HMC is going back to its roots.. thank God for that.
Hopefully, someone over at Torrance will realize that mistake that not offering an EX with MT and Navi is... and the really BIG mistake of not offering the Fit Sport with Navi and MT anymore.. I mean, I drive one of those everyday and the thing is fun. It's more fun than the TL and the SH..... And just the other day I got 38mpg on my commute (OK, so I was coming down with the flu and I drove like a zombie!)...
I'm guessing that Honda looked at previous sales data and compared that with production costs. I am sure this decision will save them money in the long run, even if it upsets some of us.
TonyE wrote: It seems like AHM is shutting down production and in the process is shutting down the combination of the MT5 with Navi except for the top of the line Accord V6 MT6 coupe and the Civic Si.
Now, while this may make some sense (some, only a little, very little) if AHM is trying to clean up production complexity in a challenging market, it still is screwy with the Civic and IDIOTIC when it comes to the Fit.
Seriously, I hope the "new" Honda sees through this idiocy and realizes that people buy MT setups because they prefer them. As it is, seriously, the current Honda line up is seriously wanting for me. I was thinking of picking up a second Fit with MT and Navi or maybe a Civic EX MT with Navi... No EX-L, please.
Instead, they waster all that money on the Crosstour, Jeez...
On the other hand, if you go into your Acura dealer and want the new 6 speed Sh-Awd TL, you have to buy it with the $3,730 technology package. You can buy the automatic Sh-Awd TL with or without the Technology package.
Go figure!
That's because of recent AHM marketing fallacies:
FALLACY: At the top end, MT cars are purchased mostly by enthusiasts who want to load the car with toys.
(OK, this could be the dealers too and peculiar to the ugly as sin TL, but it follows with Accord and Civic.)
FALLACY: At the bottom end, MT cars are purchased by people who can not afford an AT.
FALLACY: Enthusiasts are not interested in bottom end cars.
I think this is the FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE that AHM is making. What made Honda cars in the US was that you could always get a nice, light, reliable and fun to drive car with an MT.
AHM somehow is Toyotazing the Honda brand name into a boring car company, meanwhile, HMC is going back to its roots.. thank God for that.
Hopefully, someone over at Torrance will realize that mistake that not offering an EX with MT and Navi is... and the really BIG mistake of not offering the Fit Sport with Navi and MT anymore.. I mean, I drive one of those everyday and the thing is fun. It's more fun than the TL and the SH..... And just the other day I got 38mpg on my commute (OK, so I was coming down with the flu and I drove like a zombie!)...
Tony, don't take it badly but, unfortunately, I think you are a extreme minority both here and in your country ... I'd be as pissed of as you in your case (check my recent post on Japanese trims), but I don't think what you wrote are "fallacies" in your market...
TonyE wrote: I think this is the FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE that AHM is making. What made Honda cars in the US was that you could always get a nice, light, reliable and fun to drive car with an MT.
QFT. Except for V6 models (tho there are a handful of EX-L 6-6s), Honda was unique in the price ranges offering MTs across the board. Most other manufacturers would bundle an AT as soon as you upgraded trim levels. This was one thing that always kept me coming back to Honda.
TonyE wrote:AHM somehow is Toyotazing the Honda brand name into a boring car company, meanwhile, HMC is going back to its roots.. thank God for that.
I've thought about this for awhile now. Honda and Toyota seem to be the GM of the 70s - cars are getting boring with nothing particularly unique or outstanding about them. AHM is giving Americans "what they want" and in the process loosing their identity. Honda used to buck trends all the time and focus on lean, green, efficient machines. It was their personality. The bonus was that they were able to be so main stream at the same time and still have a beautifully engineered, quality vehicle that would surpass your expectations.
The recent offerings are too "Americanized" for my tastes, too. One of the things I love about my Mazda is it's "Japansese flavor". Won't mistake it for anything else. While styling might be quirky - efficient, thoughtful details abound. I went in expecting "X" with this car and it's been returning X times 10 . . . something Honda used to do so well.
And recently Mazda announced a weight reduction plan. All models are supposed to be introduced in their next redesign as lighter vehicles. Hopefully they'll stick to that and continue to offer MTs :)
according2kev wrote: Is this true about the Si? I thought it was ONLY available with a manual.
I think what he meant to say was the summer tire option was gone. The Civic Si's still only come with a 6-speed, and you can get Navi on both the coupe and sedan.
according2kev wrote: Is this true about the Si? I thought it was ONLY available with a manual.
It is. I'm assuming he meant they dropped the Si w/ Sport Tires and Navi trim. I didn't buy sports tires with mine, but I can't imagine it costs them that much to have a different set of tires on the car. I mean, sales of that trim would have to be abismally low for it to save them anything.
danielgr wrote: Tony, don't take it badly but, unfortunately, I think you are a extreme minority both here and in your country ... I'd be as pissed of as you in your case (check my recent post on Japanese trims), but I don't think what you wrote are "fallacies" in your market...
(1) The thing is that the models they are "DROPPING" were available just last year. There are no additional non recurring engineering costs. Distribution costs may go up a bit because of the changes required. Manufacturing costs can not be that great.
(2) AHM made its name in the US by its fine small MT cars. By pushing ATs into its cars it numbs the cars.
(3) The AT cars have lower mileage and less efficiency than the AT cars.
(4) The manufacturing options in Japan are clueless. If I lived in Japan I'd take taxis and trains. Did I ever tell you it took us more than half an hour in a taxi to go from Hotel Le Meridien Pacific to Haneda airport during the middle of the day? On a car it would have been like an hour.
Let me put it this way... the way things are going with AHM's marketing decisions....
Q: Is society happy to have Honda around?
A: Hmm... let me ask you, what is American Honda doing to make itself different from other auto manufacturers?
The Fit Sport MT5 with Navi is a return to a great Honda car. The 140bhp Honda MT5 with Navi is a fantastic Honda car.
Why in the world is AHM intent on shooting itself on the foot? Why does AHM keep shooting itself through the metatarsal bones?
I sincerely hope that cutting these models is a knee jerk reaction by AHM while Takanobu Ito's rethinking plan comes through loud and clear from above. AHM needs to realign itself with what made Honda cars in the US. We americans did not buy Hondas because they were better Pontiacs but because they were Hondas. Why in the world would we keep buying Hondas if they become more reliable Pontiacs?
This is what has happened to Toyota Motor Sales (TMS) and is the same path that AHM has been taken.
Lately not only Ito but also Toyoda have taken notice of this and hopefully AHM will keep the lid on the size of the Civic and Fit and make them fun. Maybe what AHM needs is a good Corolla SR5 to compete against again...
Trip wrote: ...
I've thought about this for awhile now. Honda and Toyota seem to be the GM of the 70s - cars are getting boring with nothing particularly unique or outstanding about them. AHM is giving Americans "what they want" and in the process loosing their identity. Honda used to buck trends all the time and focus on lean, green, efficient machines. It was their personality. The bonus was that they were able to be so main stream at the same time and still have a beautifully engineered, quality vehicle that would surpass your expectations.
The recent offerings are too "Americanized" for my tastes, too. One of the things I love about my Mazda is it's "Japansese flavor". Won't mistake it for anything else. While styling might be quirky - efficient, thoughtful details abound. I went in expecting "X" with this car and it's been returning X times 10 . . . something Honda used to do so well.
And recently Mazda announced a weight reduction plan. All models are supposed to be introduced in their next redesign as lighter vehicles. Hopefully they'll stick to that and continue to offer MTs :)
We americans did not buy Hondas because they were better Pontiacs but because they were Hondas. Why in the world would we keep buying Hondas if they become more reliable Pontiacs?
danielgr wrote: Tony, don't take it badly but, unfortunately, I think you are a extreme minority both here and in your country ... I'd be as pissed of as you in your case (check my recent post on Japanese trims), but I don't think what you wrote are "fallacies" in your market...
(1) The thing is that the models they are "DROPPING" were available just last year. There are no additional non recurring engineering costs. Distribution costs may go up a bit because of the changes required. Manufacturing costs can not be that great.
(2) AHM made its name in the US by its fine small MT cars. By pushing ATs into its cars it numbs the cars.
(3) The AT cars have lower mileage and less efficiency than the AT cars.
(4) The manufacturing options in Japan are clueless. If I lived in Japan I'd take taxis and trains. Did I ever tell you it took us more than half an hour in a taxi to go from Hotel Le Meridien Pacific to Haneda airport during the middle of the day? On a car it would have been like an hour.
Let me put it this way... the way things are going with AHM's marketing decisions....
Q: Is society happy to have Honda around?
A: Hmm... let me ask you, what is American Honda doing to make itself different from other auto manufacturers?
The Fit Sport MT5 with Navi is a return to a great Honda car. The 140bhp Honda MT5 with Navi is a fantastic Honda car.
Why in the world is AHM intent on shooting itself on the foot? Why does AHM keep shooting itself through the metatarsal bones?
I sincerely hope that cutting these models is a knee jerk reaction by AHM while Takanobu Ito's rethinking plan comes through loud and clear from above. AHM needs to realign itself with what made Honda cars in the US. We americans did not buy Hondas because they were better Pontiacs but because they were Hondas. Why in the world would we keep buying Hondas if they become more reliable Pontiacs?
This is what has happened to Toyota Motor Sales (TMS) and is the same path that AHM has been taken.
Lately not only Ito but also Toyoda have taken notice of this and hopefully AHM will keep the lid on the size of the Civic and Fit and make them fun. Maybe what AHM needs is a good Corolla SR5 to compete against again...
Tony, you should probably be doing your bitching at the dealerships. Dealerships do not want manual transmission cars on their lots. They collect dust because very very few people want a manual transmission. Then try trading in a manual transmission car, they really don't want those.
Honda can build all the manual transmissions they want, but if dealerships don't order them, and customers don't buy them, why would Honda be motivated to build them?
When I asked about a MT Civic sedan this past July the salesman at my Honda dealer said he wishes he could get them. They either sell quickly at that dealership or they can trade them quickly to other dealers.
And after driving my wife's RDX for maybe two hundred miles, it's my opinion the paddle shifters on the automatic are no replacement for a nice shifting manual. The only situation I like them for is on-demand downshifts when coasting in city street traffic.
We americans did not buy Hondas because they were better Pontiacs but because they were Hondas. Why in the world would we keep buying Hondas if they become more reliable Pontiacs?
Amen . . . [ insert that little bowing smiley here ] :)~
Grace141 wrote: When I asked about a MT Civic sedan this past July the salesman at my Honda dealer said he wishes he could get them. They either sell quickly at that dealership or they can trade them quickly to other dealers.
As was the case with my last couple of Accords... I had to wait patiently for a couple of months while it was snagged at the factory and shipped to the dealer. I gladly waited, too, to get what I wanted. If MTs become more and more scarce, I'll be driving "pre-owned" vehicles in the future.
according2kev wrote: Is this true about the Si? I thought it was ONLY available with a manual.
It is. I'm assuming he meant they dropped the Si w/ Sport Tires and Navi trim. I didn't buy sports tires with mine, but I can't imagine it costs them that much to have a different set of tires on the car. I mean, sales of that trim would have to be abismally low for it to save them anything.
Dealers don't order them because of the poor traction in RAIN. Also a lot of people my way buy Winter tires no matter what. We don't order Summer tire Si's. We got one on dealer trade and I sold it last month with a set of Bliz winter tires & Rims from Tire Rack. I think they will drop it all together in 2011. Just like the PAX on the Odyssey.
danielgr wrote: Tony, don't take it badly but, unfortunately, I think you are a extreme minority both here and in your country ... I'd be as pissed of as you in your case (check my recent post on Japanese trims), but I don't think what you wrote are "fallacies" in your market...
(1) The thing is that the models they are "DROPPING" were available just last year. There are no additional non recurring engineering costs. Distribution costs may go up a bit because of the changes required. Manufacturing costs can not be that great.
(2) AHM made its name in the US by its fine small MT cars. By pushing ATs into its cars it numbs the cars.
(3) The AT cars have lower mileage and less efficiency than the AT cars.
(4) The manufacturing options in Japan are clueless. If I lived in Japan I'd take taxis and trains. Did I ever tell you it took us more than half an hour in a taxi to go from Hotel Le Meridien Pacific to Haneda airport during the middle of the day? On a car it would have been like an hour.
Let me put it this way... the way things are going with AHM's marketing decisions....
Q: Is society happy to have Honda around?
A: Hmm... let me ask you, what is American Honda doing to make itself different from other auto manufacturers?
The Fit Sport MT5 with Navi is a return to a great Honda car. The 140bhp Honda MT5 with Navi is a fantastic Honda car.
Why in the world is AHM intent on shooting itself on the foot? Why does AHM keep shooting itself through the metatarsal bones?
I sincerely hope that cutting these models is a knee jerk reaction by AHM while Takanobu Ito's rethinking plan comes through loud and clear from above. AHM needs to realign itself with what made Honda cars in the US. We americans did not buy Hondas because they were better Pontiacs but because they were Hondas. Why in the world would we keep buying Hondas if they become more reliable Pontiacs?
This is what has happened to Toyota Motor Sales (TMS) and is the same path that AHM has been taken.
Lately not only Ito but also Toyoda have taken notice of this and hopefully AHM will keep the lid on the size of the Civic and Fit and make them fun. Maybe what AHM needs is a good Corolla SR5 to compete against again...
A lot of you are missing the POINT! Although a MT is much more fun to drive, the generation coming up is...........how can I say it w/o offending anyone.........Aw Pha-k It! Lazy, Trippe Grande Mocha Lata drinking, Metro Sexual, Can't change a tire/wait till AAA comes while I listen to my iPhone, entitlement seeking little computer babies.................THERE, did I cover everything?
Yeah, Yeah it's a little harsh, but who doesn't know that coming from ME? I see it all the time, the parents come in with a manual Accord or Civic to buy a car for their kids, the kids are like, "Oh, it's too much work, I can't drive a car around with my friends and shift" BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.........I want to back hand the little brats. So as a result, the parents buy the automatic for the kids and then the NEXT car THEY buy for them selves, because the other kids coming up don't want to drive stick, is an Automatic.
This year alone I took in trade over 15 manual shift Honda's and replaced them with about 3 or 4, all the others got AUTO's. I haven't sold a manual Toyota in 6 years and that was a Camry which took us 3 weeks to locate, we couldn't even order it. This is HONDA responding to a dieing demand, not them giving up. We could fill our lot with manuals and they will just sit here. Now with the FIT it's different, that is a car that people expect a manual trans in, but the Accord and Civic are moving to a different crowed, a crowed of people that demand more comfort rather then fun. Honda STILL manages to incorporate the fun factor in all their cars, but as technology expands, manual trans. is going to be like an 8 track player, OUT OF STYLE/DATE. Sorry to say that, but in the 14 years I have been here selling the demand dropped in 2000 and 2002 like a prom dress on the head cheerleader after 4 beers. Cell phones, TEXTING and other forms of communication has taken the fun out of driving and turned our cars into ROOMS rather then a place to escape and relax with a good shift down a twisty road.
I peg the changing interests of kids today on the simple fact there are so many other things to be interested in. Thirty years ago about the only cool thing my friends and I could be fascinated with was cars with all of us falling in different camps. One friend bought an old Ford pickup with a "Granny-Low" MT and used it to haul firewood for his dad. His brother had a simple little Civic wagon and a VMax for fun. Another friend had a 440 Charger with the Torqueflite. To this day I still love the sound of the big-block Chryslers from the '60s. A guy a couple of years younger than me drove a mint MGB. My brother had a friend who had an LS6 Chevelle and another with a Hemi Charger. At the time, I couldn't afford the new Civic I wanted so I ended up with a Datsun. My wife (we were dating at the time) had a VW Scirroco that was a blast to drive.
Kids today just aren't as interested in cars. They have their video games and iPods. I see a few teenagers driving old Z-cars and college-age kids driving old Civics but it's not the same. It's been a long time since I've seen a high school kid driving a '69 Z28. Most of the guys racing Mustangs today are about my age. Sure, some teenagers today are interested in cool cars. In my time, everyone was interested in cool cars.
It's a shame really when you think about it. Most high school kids today seem to drive new sporty cars like Mitsubishis or their parents' hand-me-down Camrys.
"Kids today just aren't as interested in cars. They have their video games and iPods."
Grace141, you hit it exactly. Except it has been going on long enough that my "kid" is a 30 something now. I was immersed in the car culture back when I was growing up, and he is into computers and iPhones. When I took drivers' ed in high school, we learned on stick shift cars. He learned on an automatic. The other day he needed me to show him how to change the headlight on his Accord (at least he learned to appreciate better cars from me!). I would have done that when I was twelve without even hesitating.
Me, I drive an automatic now, because as I get older and try to remain in the bleeding edge of culture, I find it hard to drive while holding a cell phone in one hand and a Starbucks latte in the other. I think my kid is actually on to something here . . .
Grace141 wrote: I peg the changing interests of kids today on the simple fact there are so many other things to be interested in. Thirty years ago about the only cool thing my friends and I could be fascinated with was cars with all of us falling in different camps. One friend bought an old Ford pickup with a "Granny-Low" MT and used it to haul firewood for his dad. His brother had a simple little Civic wagon and a VMax for fun. Another friend had a 440 Charger with the Torqueflite. To this day I still love the sound of the big-block Chryslers from the '60s. A guy a couple of years younger than me drove a mint MGB. My brother had a friend who had an LS6 Chevelle and another with a Hemi Charger. At the time, I couldn't afford the new Civic I wanted so I ended up with a Datsun. My wife (we were dating at the time) had a VW Scirroco that was a blast to drive.
Kids today just aren't as interested in cars. They have their video games and iPods. I see a few teenagers driving old Z-cars and college-age kids driving old Civics but it's not the same. It's been a long time since I've seen a high school kid driving a '69 Z28. Most of the guys racing Mustangs today are about my age. Sure, some teenagers today are interested in cool cars. In my time, everyone was interested in cool cars.
It's a shame really when you think about it. Most high school kids today seem to drive new sporty cars like Mitsubishis or their parents' hand-me-down Camrys.
1965 Newport with 383, balanced & Blueprinted, port & polished, street cam. windage tray, 650 Edelbrock Carb and Intake manifolds, 440 Heads, exhaust manifolds, 2,800 RPM stall speed converter with a shift kit, 373 rear end, duel snorkel cold air intake, electronic ignition. 15 inch Crager rims with white raised letters and duel turbo exhaust. Lowered 3 inches.
Cadillac Escalade Pearl White. I had the Antenna removed and the tail lights are Clear, an option that was BANNED 1 Jan 1965 on any car produced after that date. Mine are from a New Yorker, but I got them on ebay for like $300 bucks. NOS they would be around $1,200. They are sweet. They have red bulb covers.
I did the engine detail (not the rebuild), put the engine in, hooked up all the wiring, I my self put new brakes, lines, ignition, suspension, rear end, leaf springs. I sand blasted the entire under carriage of the car and hand painted it with a special paint. Took apart each power window motor and rebuilt it. I plan to put 4 bucket seats in it, run a console down the center with blue lights and hard wood (like a floor) Blue and white with a light wood. The same for the trunk, all hard wood. I have had the car for 18 years. It was built on 12 Sep 1964 and delivered to the dealer on 21 Sep 1964, my birthday.
HONDA AFVM wrote: This is HONDA responding to a dieing demand, not them giving up. We could fill our lot with manuals and they will just sit here.
Agreed. The economics of MT vehicles is unfortunately inescapable -- the market just isn't there and it is increasingly difficult for people like me to find an MT vehicle. I checked the website of the dealer that I bought my Accord from many years ago... exactly 0 MT Accord Sedans in stock, and 0 MT Civic Sedans in stock. The 6+6 Accord Coupe and Civic Si are the only new MT vehicles that they seem to carry.
This is the new reality we have to get used to. I'm pretty much resigned to Honda including MT only on its sport oriented or low budget vehicles in the future: Accord Coupe, Civic Si Sedan, Civic Si Coupe, CR-Z, and Fit.
The kids can have their ATs and DSGs, so long as Honda keeps making the Si for people like me. There are still plenty of 7G Accord Sedan w' MT in the Certified Used pool as well.
HONDA AFVM wrote: This is HONDA responding to a dieing demand, not them giving up. We could fill our lot with manuals and they will just sit here.
Agreed. The economics of MT vehicles is unfortunately inescapable -- the market just isn't there and it is increasingly difficult for people like me to find an MT vehicle. I checked the website of the dealer that I bought my Accord from many years ago... exactly 0 MT Accord Sedans in stock, and 0 MT Civic Sedans in stock. The 6+6 Accord Coupe and Civic Si are the only new MT vehicles that they seem to carry.
This is the new reality we have to get used to. I'm pretty much resigned to Honda including MT only on its sport oriented or low budget vehicles in the future: Accord Coupe, Civic Si Sedan, Civic Si Coupe, CR-Z, and Fit.
The kids can have their ATs and DSGs, so long as Honda keeps making the Si for people like me. There are still plenty of 7G Accord Sedan w' MT in the Certified Used pool as well.
Out of 240 cars we have 5 manual Fits, 2 Civics and 1 Accord.
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