CrystalFiveMT wrote: What I don't understand is Honda's decision to use that fabric on the headliner that not only gets dirty easily, but if you try to rub it with a cloth it will ruin the fabric. What are they thinking? They used this on my RSX, 08 Accord and Fit, and who knows what other Hondas. Add to that the now across-the-line EZ-scratch interior plastic and you now have to keep from touching anything on the car.
It isn't much different than the fabric on pretty much every other headliner. If you check the materials in MUCH more expensive cars, they have the same problem. Honda put the fabric there because people bitched that the vinyl wasn't "good enough" or "luxury enough" etc. One of the things that helped older Hondas hold up so well to abuse was the fact that much of the cabin was user friendly. Good examples are the older "best built" cars. It is not uncommon to find a 1900-93 Accord with a fairly pristine interior if it was cleaned. Usually, there will be some peeling/sagging of the cloth door panel inserts, but other than that, the other stuff holds up incredibly well. Contrast that with GM headliners and other brands where the cloth is peeling and sagging, just like it probably is on the Accord's door panels.
In 10 years when all of these cloth headliners, and pillar materials are peeling and tearing because they are sun beat, and the adhesive has given up, people will bitch that Honda has "cut costs" because the cars don't hold up as well, even though EVERY other car so equipped has the same problem, and there is only so much you can physically do with cloth and adhesive.
Personally, it never bothered me. The headliner is an area I seldom look, and even less seldom touch (unless it is the moonroof visor I am closing), so I frankly don't care much if it is vinyl or fabric. I would rather it be easy to clean, and personally, I never found the old style vinyl roofs to be lacking in "luxury." But that is just my opinion. That is another reason I like leather interior. They are easy to keep clean, and if you actually take care of the leather, it will last as long as the car. What really irritates me though is when people demand stuff with specific problems that are unavoidable, and then complain when those unavoidable problems occur. The cloth stuff will most likely go that route.
I have to agree with you Owe as my 1995 Civic Ex Sedan has a vinyl headliner that's very easy to clean. Just spray it and wipe it down, it's clean.
As far as interior durability, I think Honda has always been a leader in this area. The only weak area would have been the leather durability in previous Hondas but Honda looks to have improved in that area.
My Civic's interior quality was well above other cars in its price range as the plastics were pretty good and the dash and door panels were soft to the touch. The seat material was actually very nice as 94-95 Ex sedans got a special higher end material vs other Civic models. It was plush and had a tweedish herringbone looking pattern to it (like a pea coat). After a good steam cleaning the material is like new.
My Civic is almost 16 years of age and I have no cracked plastics or torn materials in the car. There is no fading or premature wear either. Compared to the new Civics I think Honda has dialed back a bit as the new Civics interior panels seem to scratch very easily and these cars have been very rattle prone. My car has yet to rattle or creak even with my suspension set to its firmest setting.
In the end I guess there has to be a certain amount of compromise in terms of improvements to each generation while keeping a grip on costs. However, Honda used to a leader in being able to keep costs in check without sacrificing material/build quality.
~Patrick
*PS. Honda used a fabric headliner in the 01-05 Civic sedan and I've seen quite a few sagging headliners in the earlier models.
Upgraded fabrics were par for Honda, and in fact I think they still do that with LX==> EX.
Also, with regard to the new Civic, the door panels are again soft touch. Parts of the dash are hard, but overall, I am having the same experience with the new Civic that I have noticed over the last couple of years with Honda. The plastics are getting better. While the 09 Si doesn't seem to be quite up to Honda's old standards that were present in my 1990 Accord, they are much more scratch resistant than our 2002 Accord, our 2004 and 2007 Accord and especially the 2001-2005 Civic, so the trend is in the correct direction. With 10K I have no major scratches that I didn't mistakenly cause with something that SHOULD have scratched it, which is something I couldn't say for the previously mentioned cars. The 2004-2007 Accord was better than the 1998-2002 as well.
I honestly think it has more to do with "recyclable", "Earth friendly" materials than it does cheapness, because the degtradation in quality occurred around the same time they started focusing heavily on recyclable cars. For instance, the current Si owners manual tells me that my car is over 96% recyclable, which would not have been the case with older Hondas. So perhaps rather than a "cost cutting" measure, it has more to do with technological progression of new materials. The fact that the trend has been overwhelmingly positive in terms of durability would probably support that too.
Those of you who commented that the headliner fabric is easy to clean...you must not have the fabric that's on the later Hondas. You can't rub the fabric without fraying it. Just check out the new Accord.
It is almost amusing the lengths the bean counters go to to save costs. I am not saying Honda is different to others, but little things like the 2010 tray deletion in the accord, the 2010 CRV LED roof light deletion, the switch from leather to vinyl in the third row of the Odyssey, the removal of the third row carpet mat and cargo net in the Pilot. Sometimes you think it's just pennies - literally - so if it is all that important just add a few pennies to the price instead. I guess that's just not the way it works.
I had my 06 Accord a year before I realised the visors extend - it's not very clear in the manual. CRV's don't extend. Least they now have lights in them! (the 2010 CRV, as I have commented elsewhere, has been a remarkable example of bean counters not getting their way - apart from the LED, nothing has been deleted and lots added, and for less money.
Honda remains one of the world's most profitable car company's. It aims to make a profit above all else and where it thinks it can get away with cost trimming, it will. But it has to keep an eye on the competition and there's no denying that Hyundai, Kia, Ford and GM have upped their perceived quality enormously in recent years - an area where Honda did have a clear and obvious advantage. CRVs excepted it is debateable for sure whether or not recent opfferings have felt better quality inside.
A few customers have have sniped about some aspects of the current Accord's interior (the plastics and design of the info display, especially on the non-navi's) whereas I don't remember anyone disliking the old model's design. And those painted plastic bits don't wear well, unlike chrome/faux chrome. At the same time it's clearly a better car in some other respects (rear seat comfort, visibility, safety).
gofast182 wrote: Also the A pillar in my '07 is covered with a textile material but in my friend's '08 it's hard plastic.
I don't honestly believe that was as much a cost cutting measure as a customer complaint area/wear and tear area. I know on BOTH of our 7th gens, it was/is horribly difficult to keep that area clean, because crap spills and splashes on it, or people touch it etc. Since it is fabric, it is hard to clean, whereas the re-installation of plastic in that spot requires only a wet rag and a wipe. The old Accords didn't have fabric, and actually, the 7th gen was the first. The first thing I thought was "oh that is going to suck to keep clean," and I was right. Don't forget that the main users of this car still have family members and often little kids. As such, the maintainability of the car should ALWAYS be a consideration, rather than just "style."
I was personally sort of mad when they went away from the vinyl roof panels that were also as easy to wipe clean as a wet cloth and maybe some soap or mild detergent. I know in the case of my sister's 2004, she has a hard time keeping the unchild friendly areas of the car clean, because she has two little girls.
Personally, I was glad when they went back to textured plastic, for functional reasons. Another good example of this area in many recent Hondas is the choice to go with a darker carpet in a lighter interior. It also helps hide the obvious dirt in such areas as the footwells.
I've had 3 passengers specifically comment on how nice the fabric-covered pillars are. These are people who have never seen it before. I happen to like it as well. I guess it helps that I don't let food, cargo, kids mess up the inside of my car.
I didn't say I didn't like them. But from a practical, people who actually use the car for its intended mission, they didn't make sense.
As I sit in front of my 24 inch monitor, barely tolerating a drumming headache brought by something I hope is not swine flu, I think you're picking at the smallest things.
The current gen Accord offers a 190 bhp 2.4 K24 motor with an AT5 or a grossly overpowered 3.5L V6 also with an AT5.
They all got ABS, front airbags, side airbags, traction control, yaddah, yaddah....
- Sunvisor extensions. I believe this was dropped after the first year of the previous generation Accord.
The suns visors in my 09 Accord, when flipped to the side, are useless as tits on a milk bottle. These appear to be designed for promoting sunlight entry.
TonyE wrote: As I sit in front of my 24 inch monitor, barely tolerating a drumming headache brought by something I hope is not swine flu, I think you're picking at the smallest things.
The current gen Accord offers a 190 bhp 2.4 K24 motor with an AT5 or a grossly overpowered 3.5L V6 also with an AT5.
They all got ABS, front airbags, side airbags, traction control, yaddah, yaddah....
Did you mean underpowered Tony as the VCM V6 hasn't received great reviews.
DCR wrote: - Sunvisor extensions. I believe this was dropped after the first year of the previous generation Accord.
The suns visors in my 09 Accord, when flipped to the side, are useless as tits on a milk bottle. These appear to be designed for promoting sunlight entry.
Well that's a great way to save instead of making those plastic covers that slide out. I do have to admit I like the way Honda thinks when designing little things such as this and the way they designed the convex mirror in the Odyssey that doubles as a sunglasses holder.
I also remembered a few things about the Accord that are cost cutting.
These are very little things...
- The trim designation on the trunk lid was abandoned during the 2006 model year. (Doesn't really matter though)
- The chrome around the volume knob in 7th generation Accords (pre-facelift) was of higher quality than the facelifted model. The problem was the chrome would just flake off.
- Beige steering wheel looked very nice in the 7th generation Accord. I know Honda usually always uses a black steering wheel but it was nice...
Honda set the standard with the 7th generation Accord with its interior. Some competitors today still can't match the quality and attention to detail the 7th gen has. The 8th generation still retains the standard but took a few steps back in attention to detail.
Have you tried to extend the sun visor by sliding the entire visor? My 08 Sedan has this. My 03 Sedan had the plastic extensions, but if I remember correctly, the manual stated that if the car was equipped with side curtain airbags, the entire visor extended and the sliding plastic extensions were omitted.. I believe it has to do with potential for injury during curtain airbag deployment.
I guess I haven't tried pulling hard enough. I nearly rip my door handle off every time I shut my door, so I am afraid to touch this thing. I tugged on it and gave up on one of the two times I have had to do that.
If it turns out I am just a complete idiot, I will be happy, and it looks like I probably will be on this one.
TonyE wrote: As I sit in front of my 24 inch monitor, barely tolerating a drumming headache brought by something I hope is not swine flu, I think you're picking at the smallest things.
The current gen Accord offers a 190 bhp 2.4 K24 motor with an AT5 or a grossly overpowered 3.5L V6 also with an AT5.
They all got ABS, front airbags, side airbags, traction control, yaddah, yaddah....
Did you mean underpowered Tony as the VCM V6 hasn't received great reviews.
~Patrick
(1) It was the flu.....
(2) VCM sucks, it sucks off the line, it sucks on the top end and it sucks on the mileage. But still, 250bhp is more than enough power even if it feels otherwise lethargic.
(3) Our last Accord was the 05 Coupe V6 with MT6. No VCM. That was a monster... in a good sense.
(4) Our 05 Odyssey EX had a non VCM motor. I put a Type R sticker on it and a set of Bridgestones. Our 07 Odyssey EX-L had the VCM motor. It was a yawner, solid cruiser and well planted on the road but a yawner.
08AccordEXL wrote: It is not as easy to slide as newer GM models are. You have to lower the visor before it will slide, but even then it feels a bit too hard to slide.
the ones in our odyssey slide fine..
but i have to say, the conversation mirror is crap on our 05', but i heard it's changed for the later models.
and i'm getting annoyed at all the light bulbs that are burning out.
(1) It was the flu.....
(2) VCM sucks, it sucks off the line, it sucks on the top end and it sucks on the mileage. But still, 250bhp is more than enough power even if it feels otherwise lethargic.
(3) Our last Accord was the 05 Coupe V6 with MT6. No VCM. That was a monster... in a good sense.
(4) Our 05 Odyssey EX had a non VCM motor. I put a Type R sticker on it and a set of Bridgestones. Our 07 Odyssey EX-L had the VCM motor. It was a yawner, solid cruiser and well planted on the road but a yawner.
....ah, Tony(E)......your #3 made my day.
Regrets on that flu......fluids/bed rest/lay off the booze (just like your Mom would have said)
You want to talk about obvious cost cutting? I just got a free upgrade to a Chrysler 300, I thought it would be a welcome upgrade from the corolla's that I usually rent.
I cant believe the ill fitting, hard plastic, creaking, horrible interior. The whole centre arm rest wiggles around if you move it. The entire door trims wiggle around. its ALL thin hard plastic fastened together by zip ties or something.
You cant complain about the Accord after that.
i spend some time on the 09 mdx after we drove it home, and i was little disappointed... i definitely agree that fit and materials is not as good as i expected. compare to the previous Honda we had, expecially 1G tsx, even after 6 years, still felt tsx had better materials. either tsx was too good, or, mdx was victim of cost cutting (into quality).
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