Probably because the MT crowd is getting smaller and smaller each year.
As my dad (the Honda salesman) always said, "Ten percent of drivers can drive a manual, but only five percent do." I think it's just a way for Honda to cut costs by trimming the very niche model trims. Most people associate manual cars with either bare-bones or ultra-sporty. (And the ultra-sporty crowd is giving up manuals for faster dual-clutch transmissions.)
It is going to ruffle some feathers, but it will likely save hundreds of thousands of dollars in transportation and manufacturing costs.
I think it is stupid. so 10% of sales are manuals? 10% of accord sales is still a big number, especially compared to the likely total number of some other "niche" products. I guess Honda hopes people will just buy an auto Honda instead, rather than a manual competitor. Least with the Fit you have the paddle shifters (in America anyway).
I agree 100%. Particularly in the Fit and CRV where the manual transmission transforms performance from BORING to ENTERTAINING. Personally I wouldn't buy a four cylinder automatic, they SUCK to drive!
Well, at least they got a AT5 nowadays... so if they get the gear ratios right it's not sooo bad... but, but, but... Honda shifter are sooo good that is's a sin to drive a small Honda with a paddle shifter auto.
Oddly, it's the J motor with an MT6 that is simply overkill and that is best served with the AT5SS. With our 05 Accord V6 MT6 I could at will lay rubber on first AND second with TCS turned off. With TCS turned on, I could still chirp the front. Truth is that the J V6 has lots of torque and it easily overwhelms the tires unless you got some kind of a slushbox helping out from the line...
And, hey, guess what, my 04 TL AT5SS was faster off the line than the 05 Accord V6 MT6 because launching the TL was a no brainer while the Accord was difficult to hook up.
Now, with the smaller I4s, the MT makes a ton of sense. Sure, the K20 in the Si is sweet, but IMHO, a Civic EX with MT5 and Navi is a damn good car and far cheaper to insure.
Of course, the Fit Sport with an AT sucks... sorry but the gearing is all wrong.
And I don't buy the argument that AHM saves money by making less models. With their Just In Time and their already spent non recurring engineering costs, the costs are negligible. If anything I think they are actually losing sales.
6SPDTL wrote: I agree 100%. Particularly in the Fit and CRV where the manual transmission transforms performance from BORING to ENTERTAINING. Personally I wouldn't buy a four cylinder automatic, they SUCK to drive!
CrystalFiveMT wrote: But outside the US manuals are dominant aren't they?
They are because outside of the US, you must drive a manual transmission in Driver's Education. In the United States, many driver's ed programs don't even have a dual-driver MT vehicle. Also, gas is a lot more expensive in many parts of the world, i.e. Europe, and a manual historically gives better fuel economy. Finally, the majority of diesel vehicles come with manual transmissions due to the manual control in the very low RPM band. I believe more diesels are sold in European countries than petrol vehicles.
CrystalFiveMT wrote: But outside the US manuals are dominant aren't they?
I believe automatics are becoming prevalent all over the globe. I personally never want another manual.
I personally never want an automatic. Unfortunately though, that day will eventually arrive where a properly missioned car is not to be found. I arrived back in Japan in mid-October and placed my order for a new Fit RS (of course MT equipped) on the 14th of November and won't take delivery until around the 20th of January...UGGGHHHHHHH too long of a wait. Anyways, the other mission here is the CVT (with 7 speed likeness using the paddle shifters).
The CVT RS gets better fuel economy than the 5MT equipped car and this is where the market is going to end up. Before this minor model-change, the CVT model was like $1000 less than the 5MT, now they are the same price.
I still am not sure why I sold my Snisen before leaving Guam, what a mistake, but oh well. And if I knew I was going to move back in 20 months (mainland this time) I never would of sold my 5R Teggy. I am looking forward to the Fit though, wanted one for quite awhile just for the utility of it and a decent daily driver. Was a bit much taking 2 dogs around in the Snisen. :)
CrystalFiveMT wrote: But outside the US manuals are dominant aren't they?
I believe automatics are becoming prevalent all over the globe. I personally never want another manual.
I personally never want an automatic. Unfortunately though, that day will eventually arrive where a properly missioned car is not to be found. I arrived back in Japan in mid-October and placed my order for a new Fit RS (of course MT equipped) on the 14th of November and won't take delivery until around the 20th of January...UGGGHHHHHHH too long of a wait. Anyways, the other mission here is the CVT (with 7 speed likeness using the paddle shifters).
The CVT RS gets better fuel economy than the 5MT equipped car and this is where the market is going to end up. Before this minor model-change, the CVT model was like $1000 less than the 5MT, now they are the same price.
I still am not sure why I sold my Snisen before leaving Guam, what a mistake, but oh well. And if I knew I was going to move back in 20 months (mainland this time) I never would of sold my 5R Teggy. I am looking forward to the Fit though, wanted one for quite awhile just for the utility of it and a decent daily driver. Was a bit much taking 2 dogs around in the Snisen. :)
Indeed we are in a similar situation. If it was up to me I'd never want an automatic, but I have the feeling that sooner than later we won't have the choice any more...
I'll be moving to Japan next year, and by doing that it seems that I'm going to accelerate the process (in Europe the vast majority of cars are still MTs). That said, there are some recent signs that seem to indicate that we may have a little bit longer time left.
I don't know if you are aware of it, but Honda brought back a wider MT range in the Fit with their recent MMC. Now you don't need to get the sporty RS to get a manual, and you can get reasonably geared ones. Actually, I've checked it up and the new gearing for non-RS models is the same used in the Euro Jazz, so maybe they are just introducing it in Japan because they aren't selling as many as they'd like in Europe.
The other positive sign is the CR-Z, which is the car I'll be looking forward to when I reach Japan. Of course, I wouldn't have that one as my only drive, but my girlfriend is going to buy a Fit anyway so ... (CVT)
As for the CVT vs. MT, I think that in real life the manuals still get better mileage. Japanese 10-15 mode might be the most unrealistic driving cycle in the planet. Not only their predictions are an absolute joke, but it also benefits CVTs in excessive, which ends up skewing the market in their favor (and there is no other place in the world where CVTs are more popular than in Japan...). Using the European Driving Cycle the CVT Fit used to get worse FE than the MT one, which might have been one of the reasons why Honda dropped it for the second gen Fit over here.
A77 wrote: I think it is stupid. so 10% of sales are manuals? 10% of accord sales is still a big number, especially compared to the likely total number of some other "niche" products. I guess Honda hopes people will just buy an auto Honda instead, rather than a manual competitor. Least with the Fit you have the paddle shifters (in America anyway).
Honda is turning into an appliance company. Coffee makers, dishwashers and stoves are their next markets to attack. Why offer content and options when it is easier and cheaper for them to force everyone into the same vehicles.....it is sad, stupid and true all wrapped up into one. I was looking at BMW's the other day for my next car.....to get a stick you pretty much have to order the vehicle to get one. The BMW salesman said that he only sells about 8-10% sticks annually. Really sad. I can understand why the dopes that live in the big cities would not want a stick shift but, it is a shame that none of these companies want to cater to the drivers that really want a stick. Stick shifts are a dying breed.....
I just wish they would continue to offer a sporty option in their lineup. I bought my Accord V6 with 6MT over CRV with AT5.
With Honda there is no comparison. I had a 02 CRV with AT4 and it was OK. The only reason I got AT was that I knew I would be driving into the city every day. Actually that is the only automatic car I've ever purchased. My next car (used) will be a 2010 TL SHAWD with 6MT. I will probably move to that in about 4 years.
The problem is that the autos offered by Honda don't have the same driving experience as the MT. If it did (truly did) we'd all be willing to convert.
As long as the Germans keep offering fun to drive products that include an option to get a stick shift, people will buy them.
I have said this a million times on there, but Honda should offer an option to order a car with stick. The issue is that they are hard to move off the lot due to the numbers listed above. Dealers don't really seem to want them. Honda should build them to order and sell them on demand. The best part is all of the product lines are already designed to have a stick shift for other countries. So the R&D argument is bunk.
A77 wrote: I think it is stupid. so 10% of sales are manuals? 10% of accord sales is still a big number, especially compared to the likely total number of some other "niche" products. I guess Honda hopes people will just buy an auto Honda instead, rather than a manual competitor. Least with the Fit you have the paddle shifters (in America anyway).
On vehicles like Accord and CRV it is less than 3%. In 06' You had a tough time giving away the 3 or 4 manual CRVs you received. 6 speed sedan Accords just rotted on the lot after the first 2-3 were sold.
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