Since I am strongly considering buying the v6 AT coupe, I have been trying to research this as much as I can. Interestingly, in 2/3 reviews Edmunds did on the v6 Accord they did not have issues with VCM. In the last one, they mention it being noticable, but it does not seem to be a deal breaker. Maybe the issue is only with some cars, while it is smooth in others?
8/20/07
"To quell the inevitable vibrations while the engine was running on three or four cylinders, Honda uses active engine mounts and active noise control system. It's a similar system the company used for the ill-fated Accord Hybrid, a model for which there will be no replacement going forward. That we never heard or felt any additional raucousness when the engine was running on fewer than six cylinders is as high praise as we can offer. "
9/28/07
"It worked its 3/4/6-cylinder magic without anyone in the cockpit noticing. The green "ECON" light in the dash is the only clue. "
12/9/07
"This V6 also incorporates cylinder deactivation, a system that promises to improve fuel economy, and it's easier to feel the transition between the system's modes than we'd hoped. "
Also of note, even in the third review where the VCM is mentioned as noticeable, the car still won the caparison against other vehicles. So it must have not been to bad.
I have a new V-6 sedan, and I can tell when the engine changes modes, but it does not take from the driving experience. I some times make it a game to see if I can get the vcm to cut in and stay on for as long as possible. I also must admit that I am pretty sensitve when it comes to driving, and I can pick up on things that 90% of other people would not notice. That being said, I love my new Accord V6 sedan and how it drives. And that is coming from my previous car being an Audi A8L.
Be careful - read the WSJ review January 25 where the reviewer called the VCM "maddening". Read the Autoweek review and USA Today from 8/21/07 and 8/24/07 as well. My son has a 2007 v6 and compared to my '08 frankly seems more powerful, and immdeiately reponsive -the '08 hesitates when going from ECO to full V6 when in need of immediate acceleration.
The Accord Coupe V6 A/T is the one I want because I want a car with a sporty look and performance. When you add in the VCM, I think it takes away from the sportiness of the car if you can even feel a hint of the VCM changing. Using it for the sedan and Odyssey is understandable, but for the Coupe? And I don't like driving manuals, which of course doesn't have it. I was thinking about waiting to get the '09 version of the coupe because maybe Honda would listen to people who wanted a VCM off/on switch and implement it in. But the '08 Odyssey still uses the VCM and how many years now has that been around on the Odyssey and still no on/off switch for that.
blacktiger wrote: The Accord Coupe V6 A/T is the one I want because I want a car with a sporty look and performance. When you add in the VCM, I think it takes away from the sportiness of the car if you can even feel a hint of the VCM changing. Using it for the sedan and Odyssey is understandable, but for the Coupe? And I don't like driving manuals, which of course doesn't have it. I was thinking about waiting to get the '09 version of the coupe because maybe Honda would listen to people who wanted a VCM off/on switch and implement it in. But the '08 Odyssey still uses the VCM and how many years now has that been around on the Odyssey and still no on/off switch for that.
The Accord Coupe V6 5AT DOES have the VCM. The only V6 that doesn't have it is the 6MT Coupe.
Thanks - my understanding is that the ECO light omes on when the engine is in either 4 or 3 cylinder mode. The older Pilots and Odysseys had a two mode system - 6-3. Perhaps it is the 4-3 switching that is so bothersome.
Actually, in the older Pilots, the VCM was only included in the 4 cylinder model. Beginning 2008 the V6 Pilot has the VCM, but still only in 2 modes, 6 and 3 (per Honda's website). No negative report on VCM from either older or the new 2008 Pilot owners I could find on the VCM.
parviz wrote: Actually, in the older Pilots, the VCM was only included in the 4 cylinder model. Beginning 2008 the V6 Pilot has the VCM, but still only in 2 modes, 6 and 3 (per Honda's website). No negative report on VCM from either older or the new 2008 Pilot owners I could find on the VCM.
There was never a 4 cyl Pilot. Honda did introduce a 2WD/FWD Pilot with VCM but until then, all Pilots were V6 with AWD.
I can't vouch for the 2008 but in our 2005 ody VCM has been utterly transparent for its entire 45K life. However, as jeff i'm not a big supporter of the system, economy savings are slight at best. On the highway we always drive at 75. At that VCM is only active on clompletely flat terrain or on downgrades. In the new model I guess at that speed it would use the four rather than the 3 mode so fuel savings might be slightly better than in the previous version.
one thing i think alot of people don't know is that when the eco light is on, it does NOT mean the VCM is on, is simply telling you that your driving economically.
phantom wrote: Yes it does - When the ECO light is on it is running on 4 or 3 cylinders, not 6.
i don't know about the new generations but the 1st generation on the VCM, with 6-3 cylinder, the eco does not mean that VCM is on. Some one on ody club was able to wire a led to the VCM which would light up when VCM is on. He concluded that it works up to around 70 mph and only when the engine is warm. And also so far there had been no problems what so ever.(at least on the odysseys)
I have horrible VCM problems. Vibration around town and the car struggles to find correct gear on highway. Actually, I don't believe it actually changes gears but it feels like it. It appears the VCM engaging and disengaging is causing some pausing and RPM change.
I HATE the VCM. If anyone knows a trick to turn it off I will do it in a heartbeat. Honda has driven the car and stated everything is "normal" . Riiiiight.
P.S. Please don't bother replying I am a liar. The last time I was on this board everyone jumped down my throat that I was flaming the board. I have owned many accords and loved them with the exeception of my 2008 V6. THe VCM ruins it.
Has anybody in this thread considered the function of a "lock up torque converter?"
I know on our 06, you can occasionally feel it under certain light throttle conditions, as it locks and unlocks. This results in a slight hesitation and or feeling that something is engaging/disengaging while driving under certain conditions. It is somewhat endemic to all lock up equipped auto trannies, and given the RPM's that most Accord V6's run at while cruising at certain speeds, it is possibly this.
That would also potentially be why Honda drove it, and thought everything was normal. This could also be confused by people who aren't familiar with systems, as it can feel like the engine cutting in and out.
Personally, I am not a VCM nut, but with the time I have spent with them, you couldn't tell other than the ECO light, and the slight pitch change if you tried to pay attention to it.
So I guess my next question is this:
To those claiming to have issues, does it correspond to the ECO light switching on and off?
If so, it might still be a transmission programming mismatch or something. The issue just sounds like a torque converter.
As far as a "delay" in response with VCM, I find that to be unlikely as the VTEC mechanism should be working in the thousandths of a second range, which would be far shorter than the time it takes the tranny to kick down a gear for acceleration.
I think the 06 might feel more responsive due to tranny programming, as our 04 is less responsive than our 06, but is also smoother. Perhaps Honda decided to err on the side of smoothness.
owequitit wrote: As far as a "delay" in response with VCM, I find that to be unlikely as the VTEC mechanism should be working in the thousandths of a second range, which would be far shorter than the time it takes the tranny to kick down a gear for acceleration.I]
Its been stated by many publication that the V6 is sluggish/weak at passing speeds whih is more than likely due to the VCM and weak midrange torque production. Also keep in mind that this engine dosnt have the performace enhancements or benefits of the VTEC system.
owequitit wrote: As far as a "delay" in response with VCM, I find that to be unlikely as the VTEC mechanism should be working in the thousandths of a second range, which would be far shorter than the time it takes the tranny to kick down a gear for acceleration.I]
Its been stated by many publication that the V6 is sluggish/weak at passing speeds whih is more than likely due to the VCM and weak midrange torque production. Also keep in mind that this engine dosnt have the performace enhancements or benefits of the VTEC system.
-Patrick
I am quite aware of how VCM works, and even though there are no "VTEC performance enhancements" the engagement/disengagement of VCM still very much functions on the same principle of using solenoids and pins to change the way the valves open.
I find it hard to believe that Honda can lock them to a larger cam lobe in several thousandths of a second, but can't engage and disengage them completely in less than a second.
When you consider that at 3500RPM's the crank is travelling around nearly 60 complete revolutions a second, which would put the camshafts moving at 30 revs per second, the mechanism should be engaging and disengaging in mere fractions of a second. Something you wouldn't notice driving it.
We are also not talking about acceleration, we are talking about a "surge" or "shudder" during steady state cruising, probably at fairly low RPM's, which are ideal conditions for a lockup torque converter to be locking and unlocking, potentially.
The flacidness in the bottom end while passing is more likely the result of the powerband than anything, as every VCM car I drove felt soft, but responded just fine, as one would expect with a single cam profile biased toward top end. I don't have as much experience with VCM as some others, but it just doesn't add up that you press the gas and there is a seconds delay until the engine starts working again.
I am not saying there is NO delay, and I am not saying that I am right. What I am saying is that it just doesn't make sense, and there are other common systems on a car that could cause similar conditions that have nothing to do with VCM.
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