So, by now, we all have realized our Honda dealers do not call the ECU reflash a reflash. It is called "PGM-FI software in the ECM" update. Specifically from this TSB:
I had the original update from program version to RBA040 to RBA050 done over a month ago. This update was a huge improvement to the rev hang and throttle issues, but not perfect. When I got that update, my service tech was informed by Honda Tech Line about another update, Program version RBA060, to be released soon. A few day later I got a call from my dealer's service dept. saying they had the new update included with another HDS software update.
I finally got in yesterday and yes, they were right. My ECU program is now version RBA060. There is not a TSB or TSB update to address the issue, stating update to program version RBA060, much like the first update being available before the TSB.
I have yet to test this update, but I will in about 30 min, with a spirited drive. I am specifically looking for noticable rev hang at high RPMs. A review to come soon.
Sounds good, let us know how it goes. I'm definately going to wait for the TSB this time... it was a nightmare trying to get it updated before the TSB. Many people had trouble even after the TSB.
Anyway, I'm sure everyone will be interested to see how the long-rumored second flash feels.
The initial dbw update was just released in Canada, says
HDS software version 2.005.010 or later
pocket HDS software version 2.005.009 or later
CM update software version V6.04.04 08-08-06 or later
It also says many manufacturers do this intentionally to improve tailpipe emissions . . . which is rediculous because 99% of cars on the road don't rev hold, and the majority of DBW cars don't seem like DBW cars.
After a good test drive, mostly in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, I have come to the conclusion that the latest update improves on the previous update, but leaves room for improvement, again.
With that said, the rev hang in lower gears at 5k+ RPM is greatly decreased again and the jerky feeling when the car starts to slow down is less. 5k and below feels smooth and hangs very shortly. This is compared to the first update where the rev hang was still very noticable and the jerk when slowing down was more noticable, at higher RPMS. The throttle response is unchanged from the first update, but still improved from the initial DBW programming.
I experienced, as well as other, the RPMs bumping up 100 - 200 RPM when you up-shift. This is decreased, if and when it happens, to about 100 RPM, and falls back down quicker after the second program update.
In all, the changes are small but noticeable and the car feels smoother to drive. I am happy and I will not get another update, unless there is a TSB or I am in for normal maintenance.
I really hoped this would be the final fix. I like that RBA050 greatly reduced the hang in most cases, but it made those cases where the RPMs do hang even more apparent. I tried to find some kind of pattern as to when exactly it occurs, but came up with nothing solid. It seems that we'll probably never be completely rid of this behavior. At least it can be reduced.
Lose2win wrote: After a good test drive, mostly in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, I have come to the conclusion that the latest update improves on the previous update, but leaves room for improvement, again.
With that said, the rev hang in lower gears at 5k+ RPM is greatly decreased again and the jerky feeling when the car starts to slow down is less. 5k and below feels smooth and hangs very shortly. This is compared to the first update where the rev hang was still very noticable and the jerk when slowing down was more noticable, at higher RPMS. The throttle response is unchanged from the first update, but still improved from the initial DBW programming.
I experienced, as well as other, the RPMs bumping up 100 - 200 RPM when you up-shift. This is decreased, if and when it happens, to about 100 RPM, and falls back down quicker after the second program update.
In all, the changes are small but noticeable and the car feels smoother to drive. I am happy and I will not get another update, unless there is a TSB or I am in for normal maintenance.
Hey Lose2Win,
Thanks for the info. One question though...do you have any mods, or is your car completely stock (engine, anyway).
BT
I think the only way is to have the dealer hook it up to the HDS or the Pocket HDS. I specifically requested to see my version number when my service was performed. I had mine done 5 weeks or so ago and it was RBA050 like in the TSB. You probably have 050.
Lose2win wrote: After a good test drive, mostly in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, I have come to the conclusion that the latest update improves on the previous update, but leaves room for improvement, again.
With that said, the rev hang in lower gears at 5k+ RPM is greatly decreased again and the jerky feeling when the car starts to slow down is less. 5k and below feels smooth and hangs very shortly. This is compared to the first update where the rev hang was still very noticable and the jerk when slowing down was more noticable, at higher RPMS. The throttle response is unchanged from the first update, but still improved from the initial DBW programming.
I experienced, as well as other, the RPMs bumping up 100 - 200 RPM when you up-shift. This is decreased, if and when it happens, to about 100 RPM, and falls back down quicker after the second program update.
In all, the changes are small but noticeable and the car feels smoother to drive. I am happy and I will not get another update, unless there is a TSB or I am in for normal maintenance.
Hey Lose2Win,
Thanks for the info. One question though...do you have any mods, or is your car completely stock (engine, anyway).
BT
I do not have any engine mods. I have been thinking about a SRI and exhaust (HFP muffler or cat-back), but I wanted to work out all DBW, rattles, tranny, etc. issues before I go for any mods.
06GGNAVISI wrote: How do you check what version you have? I got my update about 3 weeks ago, so I guess I could've gotten the RBA060 update.
Three weeks ago RBA060 was available, according to my dealer. RBA050 was included in a July HDS update and RBA060 was included in an August update. The only way to check is to have a tech hook up the HDS system to your car and check the version number.
It might have been available, but it's not very likely the dealer had it installed. I had to request my dealer update to the July HDS version when I visited in the middle of August. I don't think they keep up on that.
watermelon wrote: It might have been available, but it's not very likely the dealer had it installed. I had to request my dealer update to the July HDS version when I visited in the middle of August. I don't think they keep up on that.
Very true. I have a long standing relationship with my particular dealer and they are always up to date with regards to TSB, recalls, software update. etc. They also listen to my problem descriptions and possible solutions, so they knew what updates to look for and to lookfor the second update.
Nevermind, for about what I said about the second update. I called my dealer to to get the release notes for the new update, the service manager checked with the tech who did the update per the TSB and he said it was still version RBA050. They received new HDS software and Honda Tech Line said the new software should have included a new DBW program, but it did not. Sorry guys. Completely my fault, so let the flaming begin.
I did get a free oil change on my next service because of them having me come in for no reason. LOL.
Lose2win wrote: Nevermind, for about what I said about the second update. I called my dealer to to get the release notes for the new update, the service manager checked with the tech who did the update per the TSB and he said it was still version RBA050. They received new HDS software and Honda Tech Line said the new software should have included a new DBW program, but it did not. Sorry guys. Completely my fault, so let the flaming begin.
I did get a free oil change on my next service because of them having me come in for no reason. LOL.
Sorry again.
WTF
i just called my boy at Rick Case to tell him go look and check on that shit....
and now i'm reading this....
U lil POS!!! LOL....j/k...u not a POS...but i'm still mad at u :)
Lose2win wrote: Nevermind, for about what I said about the second update. I called my dealer to to get the release notes for the new update, the service manager checked with the tech who did the update per the TSB and he said it was still version RBA050. They received new HDS software and Honda Tech Line said the new software should have included a new DBW program, but it did not. Sorry guys. Completely my fault, so let the flaming begin.
I did get a free oil change on my next service because of them having me come in for no reason. LOL.
Sorry again.
i think u did this just to get the free oil change....u bastard!! jk....go light urself on fire....again jk.....maybe.....
Lose2win, when you do get the next update, please post it on this thread instead of starting another one. My guess is your dealer will have you in for it very soon to make up for the mishap, and several of us are already subscribed to this thread. Plus, it'll let you make amends for your earlier transgression. :)
Thanks for taking the time to bring us up to date.
My local dealer was very cool about getting me in for the first update, but I don't want to pester him every month or two for incremental improvements. I'm going to wait until someone posts that Honda finally figured it out. The first reflash really didn't have much of an impact, IMO.
It is all relative to where in the rev band you spend most of the time. For me it did, because i spend most of my time below 5k rpm, it almost made the rev hang go away. The first gear hesitation was decreased significantly. The biggest impact for me was driving on the highway in 6th gear, letting off the gas, and not feeling like i was still pushing the gas for another two seconds.
True. I guess that's why it's still such a pain, because when I do get up to around 5k, the rev hang is still pronounced and annoying. The lag didn't bother me much, but that might be because I haven't owned a MT for awhile, and I just adapted to it from the start.
Just had the reflash done (Silko, Raynham, MA). It's like a different car! I use to describe it people as "tempermental" or bitchy. Made me feel like I couldn't drive a stick. No more!
I urge all to get it done.
You thought you had a secondary update, and the car felt different.
It turns out the car has the same flash, and you imagined the improvements?
I just want to be sure I didn't miss any details here.
You got it right. I was trying so hard to look for improvements that I tricked myself in to thinking there was inprovements, only to have my dealer confirm they were wrong in saying the gave me a second update.
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