do u think there's anyway tis will do? since the ecu has a learning curve....and why does some ppl have good fc all the way fr the start and some do not....there's got to be initial relevancy to the ecu there somewher somehow, as if etched on the memory already about our driving style at the first place whether we're more chiong or conservative in our
drive. because im guessing the ecu will adjust the amt of power, hence fuel, transfer to the wheel after adapting our driving style during the learning curve....so by resetting it, and hoping to achieve more prudent driving during tht period, hoping tht the ecu setting will be more fuel efficient then onward.
ok, i know tis guessing may be ridiculous or ar fetched but im hopelessly desperate and willingto make a wild try.
My personal opinion is that this would be wild-guessing and it does not work this way. There is no benefits from resetting your ECU for no reason at all. The only time resetting the ECU will affect the fuel consumption is that if you need to reset the ECU and do not recalibrate the CVT's start-up clutch 'release' position after doing it. Because engagement of the start-up clutch (when you shift from P or N into D) is via hydraulics and activated by the ECU via sensors, once you reset the ECU, you need to let it detect when the start-up clutch is at full engage (what they call 'lock-up') and when it's at full release. The best way to do this is to get your service center to do it as there is a specific procedure for it. If you don't, the ECU may not have the start-up clutch in the fully released or fully engaged positions when it needs to be and you may end up with very bad fuel consumption. This has actually been reported by a number of owners who resetted their ECU without doing the proper re-calibration procedure. They reported very bad fuel consumption but it was solved after the SC did the proper recalibration procedure for them. In my opinion people resetting the ECU but not recalibrating the CVT may also possibly be one of the reasons for some of the small numbers of start-up clutch failure that has been reported.
you'll be surprised. i drive around 2000-2100 rpm all the time, if not most of the time. rarely touch 2750rpm wht more hit 3000rpm.
no rapid acceleration fr me. i gradually acceleerate fr standpoint to mostly 2000, sometime 2500rpm. i dont hard braking but slow down to stop. downslope i dont accelerate for speed to ease out. i dont chiong. sometime, i dont even switch on the air con or disk/ radio.
im pumping Shell full tank. at highway, i dont do 120kmph [rpm wher vtec open] but manintain at 80-100kmph. still, no hard braking. so there's no room for high fc but yet it stil happen. ppl wil be baffled so am i . im getting around 360km. struggle to 380km. i do a 60% city drive. all stock city vtec. NO spoiler [increase drag hence fuel] or whtsoever
actually wht shld i expect the sc to do with my fc? ive been desperate wit tis issue im sure many quite notice of my posts. and almost giving up seeking solution.
if not due to a long desperation of a bad FC, i wldnt hv had to conjure up such idea....as described above, my driving style....but i dont expect something radical improvement to my FC hvg to cope with it for already sometime....unfortunately
i know ther r many factors tht determine FC therefor ther r no ppl tht can give outright answer as to why a bad FC.
however, FC is very much a concern nowadays shown in many cars now hv fuel efficiency tech developed in them .additionally, the rise of oil price has been erratic and worrying.
This is the first time I heard a comment from WongKN on the possible cause of a premature failure of Start Clutch on our CT CVT. Well, I didn’t reset my ECU before but there is a chance that it was done by the SC or Mfg before I collect my car. Hence, they probably didn’t recalibrate the CVT using a right procedure. Anyway, I just guessing for this. Cause it really unlikely why a start clutch could failed so early.
Thanks for sharing this WongKN. At least I know a potential cause of it. Many mention that due to CVTF which I doubt it. We use normal Honda ATF for it and I dont see why the engineers dont know about it earlier on.
BTW, whats the diffrent between CVTF and ATF that honda provice??
Please don't take my thoughts as complete gospel, it's just an opinion !! :) But having owned an MMT (which is what CVTs are called in Japan) for 6 years prior to my current Jazz VTEC, I can say I have ample experience with this type of gearbox. I myself first came across this concept of needing to reset the MMT from a TOVA reader from Australia who forced his SC to tell him the correct procedure. There were 2 procedures that he told me. Very unfortunately, due to a computer system problem, I lost that email. But my SC Wegro told me about a number of cases where people installed extra grounding wires and so forth and disconnected and reset the ECU and then came back with mainly fuel consumption problems, which the factory manual recommends a proper re-calibration of the CVT, apparently to calibrate the start-up clutch position, after the reseting. For my case, I did reset the ECU in the EK3 a number of times over the 6 years I owned it. Initially when I didn't know the procedure, I actually simply reset the ECU without recalibration (when I replaced the battery for e.g.) and the MMT always felt very unusual. Eventually my regular SC at that time (Aerotech in PJ) found the instructions in the factory manual for the EK3 on the procedure to recalibrate the MMT and after that, everything was fine. I clocked in excess of 120,000 km over that 6 years of owning the EK3 and the final mileage when I sold it was nearly 180,000km. The MMT did encounter some error codes with two of the hydraulic actuators (apparently there are several hydraulic actuator/switch used on the MMT/CVT) but after clearing and re-calibrating the CVT, the problems and error codes never came back again.
As for the gearbox oil, after around a year of ownership, I used regular ATF with my MMT. For quite some mileage in fact. Then one of my TOVA readers from Singapore bought for me the 'proper' MMT oil from Kah Motors and I used that. Later when Honda Malaysia started operations, they sold Honda ATF-Z1 gearbox oil which was spec'ed for both regular automatics as well as the MMT/CVT and I was happily using that until I eventually sold the car. I suppose if regular ATF is used (and not ATF-Z1) then there might potentially be some problem with the CVT gearbox. The quality of the oil is apparently crucial to the operation and durability of the start-up clutch.
Thanks again WongKN,
Well at least I take your word with "user experience" rather than in AW they use the word "I heard that..." ;)
Well, I missed out the "-Z1" in my earlier post. Yes currently mind was filled up with a ATF-Z1 from Honda of course, but I didnt get the CVTF when they chang my start clutch, just the ATF-Z1. Anyway, now is about 60K, still doing pretty well.
Well, instead of getting a car, next year I might change my house instead. So, perhaps the next 2 years. keep my City for another 2 years while looking at the new Civi
My colleage is getting the new City facelift...he he after owning a vios.....cool huh. Whuaaaa ha ha ha
Apparently someone from the myCity club has found the correct procedure for calibrating the CVT start-up clutch after reseting the ECU. The are 2 procedures and they are both listed in their myCityClub forum. I think their website address is http://www.mycityclub.com. If you intend to stick with your City for some time, I strongly recommend keeping in touch with that club.
city vtec stock. when it first driven out (mileage 11km), full tank (till low fuel indicator up) running plus minus 350km, up to 360km and latest 380km (esp change oil at 1k km of 15w-50) at my current mileage of 2500-2700km. ive been guessing it might b the 15w-50 but its js again wild guess. im hoping itll improve fc once i change back to mineral oil at 5km or earlier.
RESET CVT MEMORY (from singapore forum)
a) Start the car till it's normal temp
b) Do not switch on your air-con, radio, and other electrical stuffs
c) Apply handbrake (throughout this whole procedure)
d) Apply footbrake (do not release)
e) Put your gear to N for 2 mins
f) After 2 mins, put your gear to D for 1 min
RE-CALIBRATE CVT GEARBOX (IF CHANGE BATTERY) - autoworld forum
a) Starts the car and let it runs until the engine cold indicator is off.
b) Switch off the engine and restart again.
c) Switch on the front lights.
d) Shift the gear to 'n'. while stepping on the brake
e) Shift the gear between 'n', 'd', 's', 'l', 's', 'd' and back to 'n'.
f) Repeated this process about 3 times about 1-2 seconds between the
gears.
following fr ur previous post, the recalibration is required after the resetting ,right
Does this resetting procedure apply to all MMT especially an MMT from a D15b (3 stage vtec)? Sorry if my question sounds dumb, I don't know much about MMTs but I'm trying to know more cause I'm considering a d15b (3 stage vtec) engine swap on an EF. I'm looking at the maintenance pros and cons of using MMT. I would appreciate any info.. Thanks
Hi Wong! I'm the reader who sent u the instructions on how to reset the CVT. Unfortunately, I've lost it as well. Also having bad fc with our City VTEC. I get just under 10L / 100km under VERY mild city driving (never above 3000rpm). With a 42L tank, this translates to about 440km. On normal mixed driving (ie a few WOT scenarios) and regularly going above 3000rpm, it can be as bad as 11L / 100km (380km to the tank).
Maybe I'm having too high expectations, but my EK4 delivers similar mileage, and I drive the car A LOT HARDER than the City. Question is- is my mileage of about 400km on average normal for this car? If so, I'd have to say it's disappointing.
One thing I noticed about the newer Hondas- consumption is very sensitive to driving style, whereas the older ones (I've had 3 EK & 1 ES Civics in the past few years) give fairly consistent fuel consumption figures regardless of driving style. Our 2.4 Accord can deliver figures as bad as 16L / 100km, although I gotta admit I drive the car fairly hard.
currently i changed to petronas (my first petronas pump, been using shell) but dono is it because when my parents came down to kl staying in the hotel few days, ive been going up circularly into its carpark and down circularly really slowly on Smode tht few days. now my fuel consumption i guess will be worst to date.
usage of 1.5 quarter of 4 quarter fuel meter, im hitting mileage 160km only which i usually shld be getting around 200km++ at tis same level.
my usual mileage at half tank is 250km with mild driving to full tank mileage of 360km comfortably. judging fr the current mileage of 160km, by experience and instinct, it ll be good if full tank mileage of 300km fr my vtec city....
ive decided a conclusion to my high fc problem now....since courteous driving is not getting the fc i want and ive given up, i decided to js drive hard and more aggresive. i can feel it tht someday i know ill discovered the reason as to why my bad fc....
imagine 1.5L city vtec struggling to 380km....tis round is worse i can tell. js happy revving now
My City Vtec could go about 450km with 36 liter of petrol, thats when the light goes on.
Driving was from Subang Jaya to Tropicana for work.
Your fc problems could be anything, but i suggest u have a look at ur tyre, the pressure and the air filter as a start.
Also ask ur SC to check ur brakes.
Don't think it's the way u drive and driving by keeping the rpm below 3k may not save u much fuel.
Try to switch off the a/cond....:)
havent seen u around fer awhile. whts up...hehehhe...
anyway, appreciate ur advices. unfortunate, ive been thru all those basic stuffs. tyre, pressure, baggage,but air filter? how do i check tht.
but anyway, until recently i told u tht ive chged my driving style to abit aggresive, meaning i stepp on the pedal harder than i used and by instinct, ive felt my mileage improve bit. but thts jus insticnt. wil hv to wait til the fulltank finish and subseuent pump.
wht im saying is tht, probly is my driving esp acceleartion fr standstill is too slow. because i got the idea somewhere abt tis guy mentioning abt taking advtg of momentum after revving up abit higher. so, tis might be it after all....
i believe its a possiblility to cause higher fc by driving toooo slow. funny and ironic aint it.
"Perhaps you wanna try this; when you're moving off, step on the pedal moderately until your rpm hits about 3K, then as your speed rises, ease off on the pedal slowly until it comes back down to about 2K. By then your speed should be between 60-80km/h (which is equivalent to ratio 7). Ideally, 1.8-2K rpm at 80km/h is your goal, since that is the highest ratio. I believe both VTEC and iDSI have the same ratios, but pls correct me if I'm wrong.
The idea here is to get the car up to speed at a moderately fast pace so you can take advantage of forward momentum and reach the highest gearing asap.
Also, because yours is a VTEC, usable torque comes a little later than iDSI, so my gut feel says it is better to rev a bit higher first to get the car going, then only ease off and let the car's momentum take over."
Killershik wrote: i believe its a possiblility to cause higher fc by driving toooo slow. funny and ironic aint it.
Yes, it is true that driving 'too slow' can give worse fuel economy than driving at the optimal speed. For the City/Jazz VTEC, I personally think it's around 60-90kph.
Actually the key to getting best economy is to use very light throttle. Use just enough to get the rpm to 1900-2000rpm and try to get up to a good turn of speed - 70-80mph as smoothly as you can and try to stay at the speed, with minimal use of brakes. The Jazz - and City - are rather tall designs and the driving position is quite high. So while we may not have as far visibility as that from a 4WD or SUV, we generally can see farther than a typical sedan. I use that to look ahead into the traffic and to drive around slow cars that hog the fast lane and so forth. The idea is to keep the very light throttle position and maintain as steady a speed as possible.
Anyone can confirm the reset CVT gearbox posted in the mycityclub fourm. Is it can be used without any problems ? i hv reset my ECU twice in 6 months without recalibrate my CVT gearbox but fuel comsuption still bad. Approximately 12km/ L, purely city driving. please advice...
Killershik wrote: i believe its a possiblility to cause higher fc by driving toooo slow. funny and ironic aint it.
Yes, it is true that driving 'too slow' can give worse fuel economy than driving at the optimal speed. For the City/Jazz VTEC, I personally think it's around 60-90kph.
Actually the key to getting best economy is to use very light throttle. Use just enough to get the rpm to 1900-2000rpm and try to get up to a good turn of speed - 70-80mph as smoothly as you can and try to stay at the speed, with minimal use of brakes. The Jazz - and City - are rather tall designs and the driving position is quite high. So while we may not have as far visibility as that from a 4WD or SUV, we generally can see farther than a typical sedan. I use that to look ahead into the traffic and to drive around slow cars that hog the fast lane and so forth. The idea is to keep the very light throttle position and maintain as steady a speed as possible.
im having a feeling tht my fc is improving since i've driven silghtly more vigorous at acceleration recently than my previous style.
previously, as i step softly on thrust by incremental pressure, i wait for the car 'force' to come to my first thrust until they r up to par then, i step harder incrementally. i admit tht its quite slow. i guessed i was too crazy on fc saving.
so , it seems tht ive finally found the the reason behind the high fc for me whcih turn out an interesting factor....back to driving style....one too slow...hahahaha
I think it's fairly accurate based on what I remember of the procedure I received some time ago while I was having my EK3. Also, you say you are getting 12km/l consumption for city driving. What are the conditions ? Frequent jams ? Easy free flowing traffic ? If you have to spend a significant amount of time stuck in slow moving traffic, I think 12km/l should be pretty good.
It may also be worth to change the oil to synthetic. I just changed my civic 2.0 to 5W-50 cepsa from the regular honda product. I filled the tank up at home and headed up country (highway run 100-140km/h, average about 110 or so). It took almost 110 km before the gauge moved off of full (normally this happes at 90 km on the same run. It doesn't seem to make much difference for city driving though. The engine is also a little smoother and quieter, but not significantly so.
Hi Everyone. i just have my new city vtec lsat weeks ago. Now my mileage around 1300km. The fc quite good around 14-15km/l. do u think because it is a new car? will you guys problem happen on my city after sometimes? during highway that time with a constant speed of 90-110, i can easily get 300km for just half tank. Another question, am i able to accelarate until the 4400rpm for the vtec open now? or i still need to wait until 5000km?
Mr wong, at what rpm does VTEC open? since this is my first tym to own a honda, am quite puzzled as to what these guys are talking about vtec opening at certain RPM.
14-15km/l is quite good. After some more mileage, you should be able to get up to 16km/l or more in ideal conditions. On the City VTEC, VTEC changeover is around 2700 to 3500rpm depending on conditions.
'VTEC Open' is just a term to indicate when the VTEC mechanism will change from 1 cam profile to another. This is the point at which the power band for the 1st cam profile intersects with that for the 2nd. I.e. if we don't 'open' VTEC after this and continues with the same cam profile (cam lobe), we will be getting very bad power output. Changing to the 2nd set which is optimized for the higher rpms means we now get a lot more power. For the Civic 2.0l I think the changeover is around the 4800 to 5500rpm area. You can actually hear it in the change of the intake roar. Best to use the paddle shifter to put the car into a higher gear, say 3rd gear at low speed and then WOT. As the rpm climbs to 4000rpm and beyond, keep your ears open. You should hear a very distinct change in the engine sound at a certain rpm point and that is the 'vtec open' point, at which VTEC physically changes to the 2nd cam lobe.
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