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  TOV News > 2006 Acura Lineup Summary of Changes > > Re: TL HP hit

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6SPDTL
Profile for 6SPDTL
TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 11:01
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Ouch, the TL's HP went from 270 to 258. That going to hurt in the ads. I wonder if other manufacturers are going to do the same, if not, Honda's numbers are going to "look" bad.
Type R-Positive
Profile for Type R-Positive
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 11:27
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If it's any consolation, the Camry HP dropped almost 10% (190hp 3.0L/ 210hp 3.3L)...

I would guess everybody (who is honest, at least) is going to see some drop in "old" (pre-2005) engines.
osaze
Profile for osaze
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 19:47
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Are we saying here that the new SAE standard forces engine makers to report actual as opposed to the purported HP. Have we been duped all along into thinking that we have more HP when in fact we don't. I wonder if BMW is the only car maker who had it right all along.
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 22:12
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osaze wrote:
Are we saying here that the new SAE standard forces engine makers to report actual as opposed to the purported HP. Have we been duped all along into thinking that we have more HP when in fact we don't. I wonder if BMW is the only car maker who had it right all along.


Since when did cars put down 100% of engine power at the wheels? This is no different. Think of it as more drivetrain loss is being reported.

For a car rated with old standard at 270 HP, we assumed 15% drive train loss and expected about 225-230 HP. You can still expect the same, except that now you would be getting nearly 90% of the rated power to the ground.

The standard doesn't change the output of the engine, just how couple of accessories could affect and reduce the effective HP.
osaze
Profile for osaze
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 00:53
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So let me see if I get this. I have a hundred dollar bill, but now the goverment has decided, due to inflation, that all 100 dollar bills are now worth $90. But instead of calling it is a 100 dollar bill we keep calling it a $90 dollar bill, even though it is worth $100. The justification is that the $10 is lost to inflationary excesses, say on the price of fuel. It still makes no sense, why not just call the damn thing a 100 bill.
cobalt
Profile for cobalt
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 01:31
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osaze wrote:
So let me see if I get this. I have a hundred dollar bill, but now the goverment has decided, due to inflation, that all 100 dollar bills are now worth $90. But instead of calling it is a 100 dollar bill we keep calling it a $90 dollar bill, even though it is worth $100. The justification is that the $10 is lost to inflationary excesses, say on the price of fuel. It still makes no sense, why not just call the damn thing a 100 bill.


Maybe you should use state taxes (where states are a little like manufacturers) instead of inflation:

You have a hundred dollar bill, but the government has now decided that you must report how much you have as a function of how much you can actually buy after sales tax. If you live in a state with a high sales tax, you tell people you can buy $90 worth of stuff. If you live in a state with a low sales tax, you can tell people you can buy $95 worth of stuff. It doesn't change the fact that you still have a piece of paper that puts out $100, but depending on what state you combine it with, you might have to report it differently, usually lower.
HXer
Profile for HXer
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 10:46
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osaze wrote:
So let me see if I get this. I have a hundred dollar bill, but now the goverment has decided, due to inflation, that all 100 dollar bills are now worth $90. But instead of calling it is a 100 dollar bill we keep calling it a $90 dollar bill, even though it is worth $100. The justification is that the $10 is lost to inflationary excesses, say on the price of fuel. It still makes no sense, why not just call the damn thing a 100 bill.


The analogy is flawed. It's more like this... You're not spending currency, you have a lump of gold (HP). Under the old system, you take your gold to the jeweler (auto manufacturer) and they weigh it and they tell you it's 100 grams. But if you go to a different jeweler, they might tell you it's 105 grams, because they use a different balance (dyno/env. conditions). In reality your gold is more like 97 grams, and when you go to spend it (on the road), you're only going to get 97 grams worth of gold out of it. What's happening is the SAE is saying to the jewelers, hey, you should measure gold more accurately now. The size of the gram (the strength of a horse) is not changing. The jewelers were lying to you all along, and it was only a problem because you didn't know how much each one was lying by. This is just an attempt to make everyone use the same system so you can compare one jeweler's balance to another's (Honda HP numbers vs. Nissan HP numbers).
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 11:41
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osaze wrote:
So let me see if I get this. I have a hundred dollar bill, but now the goverment has decided, due to inflation, that all 100 dollar bills are now worth $90. But instead of calling it is a 100 dollar bill we keep calling it a $90 dollar bill, even though it is worth $100. The justification is that the $10 is lost to inflationary excesses, say on the price of fuel. It still makes no sense, why not just call the damn thing a 100 bill.

Like already pointed out, your analogy is flawed. The cars will not be performing any worse or better than they do now simply because a new standard has been introduced to rate the powertrain output. Remember, the performance depends on how many horses are delivered at the wheels, and that was never 100% of the engine output. We always assumed 15-20% of the power is lost in translation.

What changes now? NOT the power at the wheels. There is an added loss of 4-5% being reported with this new standard BUT that also means that you can now assume only 10-15% of the rated power will be lost in translation. So, the chassis dyno will be closer to the rated output than it was earlier.

It means nothing when you're driving around, only when you look at the spec sheet.
iNteGRaz92
Profile for iNteGRaz92
wow... just... wow (n/t) [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 14:11
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n/t
STL
Profile for STL
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 14:33
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I didn't think BMW had even adopted the new standard yet. Until they do that and confirm their engines are still rated at the same HP numbers under the new standard, I don't how you can make the claim.
CSi
Profile for CSi
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 21:11
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Type R-Positive wrote:
If it's any consolation, the Camry HP dropped almost 10% (190hp 3.0L/ 210hp 3.3L)...

I would guess everybody (who is honest, at least) is going to see some drop in "old" (pre-2005) engines.


damm thats shitty output for a V6.
dnc1972
Profile for dnc1972
Re: TL HP hit [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-23-2005 13:08
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Here is a fun question for everyone. Now that we know that the TL isnít delivering a true 270 hp at the wheels, what mods would you make to achieve such a delivery without sacrificing the integrity of the vehicle? i/e: exhaust notes, appearance, etc.
 
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