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  TOV News > 2006 Acura Lineup Summary of Changes > > Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then?

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cobalt
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What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 00:14
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It looks like a pretty consistent 10HP loss across the board for the new SAE net ratings, putting the TSX at about a 15 HP increase for '06. Anyone have a better guess?

The other question is if they smoothed that dip before the VTEC crossover. As Hondata showed us, changing only the VTEC engagement point could account for much of the difference.
SIVELOZ
Profile for SIVELOZ
Re: Whats the SAE rating for the 04/05 TSX?? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 00:34
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Powertrain

Horsepower increased to 205 SAE net (Rev 8/04) @ 7000 rpm
Torque increased to 164 lbs-ft. SAE net (Rev 8/04) @ 4500 rpm


This is all well and great..... but by how much has it increased??? We need to compare apples with apples here...... what was the SAE rating for the 05? How much more torque is 166lbs vs 164 SAE...??
accord1989
Profile for accord1989
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 00:56
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These new HP and Torque numbers make things confusing in the TSX case, since the old engine was never tested under the new system, so everything is just an estimate, I hope Acura salesmens know the actual HP of the new engine using the old HP system and vice versa.
RayChuang
Profile for RayChuang
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 00:58
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Because Honda did some changes to the K24 engine on the TSX (like larger intake valves, changed valve timing and less restrictive intake and exhaust systems), that's why when the engine is measured using the current SAE J1349 spec the engine has an output of 205 bhp. I can guess that if Honda used the older SAE net horsepower spec the engine output would be more like 210 bhp.

It will be interesting to see if Honda managed to keep the same fuel efficiency on the upgraded K24 compared to the current engine.
SIVELOZ
Profile for SIVELOZ
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 01:09
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I think it's more like 215hp..... since the RSX-S use to be rated 210hp and is now rated @ 201hp.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 01:28
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SIVELOZ wrote:
I think it's more like 215hp..... since the RSX-S use to be rated 210hp and is now rated @ 201hp.


well, that may be true, but perhaps more because the TSX's "200hp" figure was probably slightly underrated, at least comparing the 200hp K24A2's dyno to a 200hp K20A2. It was my understanding that the revisions would be good for about +10hp in an apples to apples comparison but I'll have to see what the official word is about that.
outersquare
Profile for outersquare
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 05:14
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roughly 5% average difference between new/old ratings for unchanged models. Puts the TSX at ~215 HP under old system.
99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 07:31
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I look at it this way. Under the old system their was a 70hp diff between the TL and the TSX. Now it is 53hp. That puts it more in perspective for me. It will be interesting and more important to me to see if any changes were made that would flatten out the dip in the power/torque curve. Such as hondata does.
AccordinglyJay
Profile for AccordinglyJay
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 10:57
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Are there any pics of the new TSX design tweaks? Very curious...
SIVELOZ
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Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 11:32
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Jeff,

Any idea how much more torque the TSX has? Has it increased at all, or is 164lbs the new rating for the old 166lbs?

I think it's noticable as well that the 04/05 TSX his max peak HP @ 6800RPM.... and it now peaks @ 7000RPM....... maybe this means we're getting a higher redline?
accord1989
Profile for accord1989
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 11:54
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99SI wrote:
I look at it this way. Under the old system their was a 70hp diff between the TL and the TSX. Now it is 53hp. That puts it more in perspective for me. It will be interesting and more important to me to see if any changes were made that would flatten out the dip in the power/torque curve. Such as hondata does.

your way seems to make the most sense, so 217HP for the TSX it is! (old SAE)
Aaron97SH1
Profile for Aaron97SH1
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 12:10
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I think it is probably pretty simple to figure out guys.
TL is at 258 vs. 270, this equals about 95.556%. So the TSX would be 205/.95556 or 214.5hp and 173.7 lb-ft the old way.
Using this method the RSX has 200.7hp SAE.
So the bottom line is that all SAE ratings are roughly 95.5% of the old rating.
RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 12:15
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Aaron97SH1 wrote:
I think it is probably pretty simple to figure out guys.
TL is at 258 vs. 270, this equals about 95.556%. So the TSX would be 205/.95556 or 214.5hp and 173.7 lb-ft the old way.
Using this method the RSX has 200.7hp SAE.
So the bottom line is that all SAE ratings are roughly 95.5% of the old rating.


Not really. The new SAE rating can also have a positive effect: the new Z06 gets rated at 505HP (+5HP) with the new rating. It just depends on how parasitic the accessories are when the engine is strapped to the engine dyno.

There are many factors involved rather than a simple multiplier to calculate the HP difference between the old and new ratings. From everything we've heard, the TSX engine upgrades are good for +10HP. I think these improvements should allow for bigger gains in the aftermarket (larger valves!) than we've previously seen, which is very good news. Now if we can just squeeze about 8000 revs out of the K24...

Ryan
typer_801
Profile for typer_801
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-01-2005 15:09
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Can't wait to see what Mazda's Hp results look like, since they are notorious IMO for having hugely overstated HP values on nearly all of their cars.
Aaron97SH1
Profile for Aaron97SH1
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 12:08
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You make a good point, but from what I've read the new z06 has planned on using SAE from the start and has always been rated at 505hp. So I'm skeptical of SAE adding to hp figures, especially with the rather large hits that these Honda engines are taking.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 13:20
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typer_801 wrote:
Can't wait to see what Mazda's Hp results look like, since they are notorious IMO for having hugely overstated HP values on nearly all of their cars.


they did make the one adjustment from 250hp to 238hp for the RX-8 - perhaps the new figure reflected a more accurate measurement that was similar to, if not the same way that the new SAE J1349 revision dictates.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 13:22
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Jeff wrote:
SIVELOZ wrote:
I think it's more like 215hp..... since the RSX-S use to be rated 210hp and is now rated @ 201hp.


well, that may be true, but perhaps more because the TSX's "200hp" figure was probably slightly underrated, at least comparing the 200hp K24A2's dyno to a 200hp K20A2. It was my understanding that the revisions would be good for about +10hp in an apples to apples comparison but I'll have to see what the official word is about that.



ok, it's been unofficially "confirmed" that the 210hp figure that we had heard was in fact accurate. So the new motor is in fact a +10hp bump using the old standards.
STL
Profile for STL
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 13:56
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But do we know for certain this new TSX engine isn't "under-rated" as well?

Either way I like looking at it relative to the TL (whose engine didn't change). Before the TSX was 70HP behind and now the new one will be just slightly more than 50 ponies behind. :)
STL
Profile for STL
So what would the TORQUE numbers be... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 15:57
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using the old way of measuring power?
CSi
Profile for CSi
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-02-2005 20:53
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RyanDL wrote:
Aaron97SH1 wrote:
I think it is probably pretty simple to figure out guys.
TL is at 258 vs. 270, this equals about 95.556%. So the TSX would be 205/.95556 or 214.5hp and 173.7 lb-ft the old way.
Using this method the RSX has 200.7hp SAE.
So the bottom line is that all SAE ratings are roughly 95.5% of the old rating.


Not really. The new SAE rating can also have a positive effect: the new Z06 gets rated at 505HP (+5HP) with the new rating. It just depends on how parasitic the accessories are when the engine is strapped to the engine dyno.

There are many factors involved rather than a simple multiplier to calculate the HP difference between the old and new ratings. From everything we've heard, the TSX engine upgrades are good for +10HP. I think these improvements should allow for bigger gains in the aftermarket (larger valves!) than we've previously seen, which is very good news. Now if we can just squeeze about 8000 revs out of the K24...

Ryan


But GM consistently underrates their engines.
RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: What's the real HP delta for the TSX, then? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-03-2005 10:27
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CSi wrote:
RyanDL wrote:
Not really. The new SAE rating can also have a positive effect: the new Z06 gets rated at 505HP (+5HP) with the new rating. It just depends on how parasitic the accessories are when the engine is strapped to the engine dyno.

There are many factors involved rather than a simple multiplier to calculate the HP difference between the old and new ratings. From everything we've heard, the TSX engine upgrades are good for +10HP. I think these improvements should allow for bigger gains in the aftermarket (larger valves!) than we've previously seen, which is very good news. Now if we can just squeeze about 8000 revs out of the K24...

Ryan


But GM consistently underrates their engines.


Really? Can you provide evidence? I'd believe they underrated the LS2(?) from the Camaro SS and maybe a few other late model small block V8s, but that's about it.

Ryan
 
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