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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.

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RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 16:27
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It looks like at the last moment(the NSX crash in Japan?)they found problems with the eSH-AWD.So they need more time to develop it.

I thought it was weird that the 2015 RLX Sport Hybrid didn't show up at the dealers in June because the first 250 was built and at the docks awhile back(most likely already shipped,so either sitting at a lot in LA or they shipped them back to Japan).

Also it looks like there will be no NSX taking on the hill at Goodwood(that was planned to tie the first NSX to the second with Senna).
qingcong
Profile for qingcong
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 17:03
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Doh.
TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 17:36
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Honda is so sad I can't even handle it right now...
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 17:54
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I guess it is better to get this eSH-AWD issue squared away before they hit the lots. I read that GM has recalled over 20,000,000 cars this year.

jshaw
Profile for jshaw
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 20:52
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superchg2 wrote:
I guess it is better to get this eSH-AWD issue squared away before they hit the lots. I read that GM has recalled over 20,000,000 cars this year.



For reference, Mazda has only made ~32 million cars in its entire lifetime (not including Ford branded vehicles).
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 22:15
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superchg2 wrote:
I guess it is better to get this eSH-AWD issue squared away before they hit the lots. I read that GM has recalled over 20,000,000 cars this year.



Is this figure for this year? I though I read ~15 Million (ie more than they sold) since the bailout? Since I read that, they have added more but I still think the reference point is post-bailout.
MalcolmR
Profile for MalcolmR
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 22:45
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.
One of Honda's strengths used to be simplicity.

It drove superior engineering and reliability. It helped Honda to have higher profits than its competitors.

I accept that the market is now more complex and regulations greater.

Can anyone in Honda though see they're deviating from one of Honda's core competitive advantages?

It was a secret of the first NSX, for example. A superior car that set new standards for performance cars by its refinement not its bells and whistles.

Maybe hybrids will eventually prove superior for torque vectoring and for sport applications - and maybe for fuel economy if gas prices rise enormously. Until then do we need all the risks, costs and waste - and complexity?

Can Honda get back to simplicity?

Let Ghosn do all the slick bullshitting and marketing. Let GM and Ford entertain with enormous options lists. Get Honda back to basics.

Malcolm

nsx_s2k
Profile for nsx_s2k
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-25-2014 22:58
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Rolled,
Personally, I would rather hold on to the vehicles and delay their roll out than to have an embarrassing recall. For me, I'd rather wait for perfection than a hurried product. This is regarding both the RLX & NSX.
Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 00:01
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nsx_s2k wrote:
Rolled,
Personally, I would rather hold on to the vehicles and delay their roll out than to have an embarrassing recall. For me, I'd rather wait for perfection than a hurried product. This is regarding both the RLX & NSX.




Hurried Product? How many years have they had to design a reused accord platform??? Oh that is right they threw the baby out with the bath water in the whole tier 1 fiasco..
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 05:45
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I think the cancellation of everything Acura of any interest led them to announce the eSHAWD cars a bit prematurely and then they found out just how hard it is to develop such innovative tech.

Yes, I'd not have started from here either, but they should (20/20 hindsight!) have offered the old Regendo AWD under the RLX from the off and given themselves more time.

Remember, SH-AWD was first installed on a Vigor back in about '95.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 06:50
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Altho I do prefer that they fix any problems before selling a vehicle, it would be much appreciated if they gave us updates. If there is a delay, just tell us, like they did with the TLX.

The silver lining is that if they have to ship the 2014s with the 2015s, perhaps there will be room for price negotiations on the 2014s ... ? Then again, I would not be surprised if they ship the 2014s in Oct 2014 & then wait till Oct 2015 to ship the 2015s ... j/k ... sorta ... maybe ...
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 09:32
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Colin wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
I guess it is better to get this eSH-AWD issue squared away before they hit the lots. I read that GM has recalled over 20,000,000 cars this year.



Is this figure for this year? I though I read ~15 Million (ie more than they sold) since the bailout? Since I read that, they have added more but I still think the reference point is post-bailout.


I double checked and the 20,000,000 figure is GM recalls during 2014.
gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 09:41
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This company is an absolute mess right now. Hopefully they can isolate these issues to a particular component, redesign and re-spec. it, and move forward.
Just to recap the RLX debacle:
They introduce a FWD model (fail to offer tried-and-true SH-AWD) and promise a Sport Hybrid that has yet to arrive over a year later. The FWD model gets mediocre reviews, sells at mediocre levels, and is largely forgotten. They finally appear to be getting their acts together with the Sport Hybrid, do press drives and allow it to be written about. It gets some really good reviews with legitimate comparisons to legitimate sports sedans. Now months have gone by and you still can't buy one with no on-sale date in sight. Meanwhile, the car-buying public have already forgotten about this model. Of course I don't want them to release a product with a design flaw but this just illustrates the debacle this model roll-out has been for them. What's worse is I could recap tales of woe for ILX and TLX, too, as dealerships are now out of cars to sell.
LemieT
Profile for LemieT
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 09:59
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gofast182 wrote:
This company is an absolute mess right now. Hopefully they can isolate these issues to a particular component, redesign and re-spec. it, and move forward.
Just to recap the RLX debacle:
They introduce a FWD model (fail to offer tried-and-true SH-AWD) and promise a Sport Hybrid that has yet to arrive over a year later. The FWD model gets mediocre reviews, sells at mediocre levels, and is largely forgotten. They finally appear to be getting their acts together with the Sport Hybrid, do press drives and allow it to be written about. It gets some really good reviews with legitimate comparisons to legitimate sports sedans. Now months have gone by and you still can't buy one with no on-sale date in sight. Meanwhile, the car-buying public have already forgotten about this model. Of course I don't want them to release a product with a design flaw but this just illustrates the debacle this model roll-out has been for them. What's worse is I could recap tales of woe for ILX and TLX, too, as dealerships are now out of cars to sell.



And in all of this downtime, they have yet to hire a set of designers. The RLX "SPORT" Hybrid should have been much more differentiated in terms of styling. I know we Honda lovers adore our inconspicuous living, but even vanilla comes in distinct variations.
gogzy
Profile for gogzy
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 10:41
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gofast182 wrote:
This company is an absolute mess right now. Hopefully they can isolate these issues to a particular component, redesign and re-spec. it, and move forward.
Just to recap the RLX debacle:
They introduce a FWD model (fail to offer tried-and-true SH-AWD) and promise a Sport Hybrid that has yet to arrive over a year later. The FWD model gets mediocre reviews, sells at mediocre levels, and is largely forgotten. They finally appear to be getting their acts together with the Sport Hybrid, do press drives and allow it to be written about. It gets some really good reviews with legitimate comparisons to legitimate sports sedans. Now months have gone by and you still can't buy one with no on-sale date in sight. Meanwhile, the car-buying public have already forgotten about this model. Of course I don't want them to release a product with a design flaw but this just illustrates the debacle this model roll-out has been for them. What's worse is I could recap tales of woe for ILX and TLX, too, as dealerships are now out of cars to sell.


mmm, come to think about it, this is pretty bad.... no one wants ILX, they stopped making TSX and TL, TLX and RLX not all full swing. this is very strange.... luckily there are still MDX and RDX for sales people to work on..
VTEC_Inside
Profile for VTEC_Inside
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 10:53
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All this time a simple RWD sedan/coupe would have gotten great press without requiring a shred of new tech.

Or even in the least carry over the mechanical SH-AWD as you suggested until the eSH-AWD is ready.
typer_801
Profile for typer_801
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 10:59
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I'm fearful the NSX isn't going to be a repeat of these launch failures too. A lot of hype and really early communication, but can they deliver what was promised (hopefully even more than they promised)? When you screw up a 'bread and butter' product lanch like the TLX, the Fit didn't go well, RLX eSH-AWD, the Accord Hybrid.

There's been a real string of bad launches lately.

gofast182 wrote:
This company is an absolute mess right now. Hopefully they can isolate these issues to a particular component, redesign and re-spec. it, and move forward.
Just to recap the RLX debacle:
They introduce a FWD model (fail to offer tried-and-true SH-AWD) and promise a Sport Hybrid that has yet to arrive over a year later. The FWD model gets mediocre reviews, sells at mediocre levels, and is largely forgotten. They finally appear to be getting their acts together with the Sport Hybrid, do press drives and allow it to be written about. It gets some really good reviews with legitimate comparisons to legitimate sports sedans. Now months have gone by and you still can't buy one with no on-sale date in sight. Meanwhile, the car-buying public have already forgotten about this model. Of course I don't want them to release a product with a design flaw but this just illustrates the debacle this model roll-out has been for them. What's worse is I could recap tales of woe for ILX and TLX, too, as dealerships are now out of cars to sell.


Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 11:01
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gogzy wrote:
gofast182 wrote:
This company is an absolute mess right now. Hopefully they can isolate these issues to a particular component, redesign and re-spec. it, and move forward.
Just to recap the RLX debacle:
They introduce a FWD model (fail to offer tried-and-true SH-AWD) and promise a Sport Hybrid that has yet to arrive over a year later. The FWD model gets mediocre reviews, sells at mediocre levels, and is largely forgotten. They finally appear to be getting their acts together with the Sport Hybrid, do press drives and allow it to be written about. It gets some really good reviews with legitimate comparisons to legitimate sports sedans. Now months have gone by and you still can't buy one with no on-sale date in sight. Meanwhile, the car-buying public have already forgotten about this model. Of course I don't want them to release a product with a design flaw but this just illustrates the debacle this model roll-out has been for them. What's worse is I could recap tales of woe for ILX and TLX, too, as dealerships are now out of cars to sell.


mmm, come to think about it, this is pretty bad.... no one wants ILX, they stopped making TSX and TL, TLX and RLX not all full swing. this is very strange.... luckily there are still MDX and RDX for sales people to work on..



This is what happens when you rush a load of stuff through after tearing up the original and having a Tsunami - it's Sod's Law that the wheels will fall off everything.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 11:01
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VTEC_Inside wrote:

Or even in the least carry over the mechanical SH-AWD as you suggested until the eSH-AWD is ready.


Then you might as well abandon the Hybrid drive train altogether at that point.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 12:52
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Well, not if it is a better system and adds a lot of HP to the equation.

The old SH-AWD would be heavier & thus slower than the PAWS car as it stands, so there would still be room for the halo model.

I'm not saying it would solve the RLX's problems, but it would certainly have helped in the interim.
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-26-2014 20:23
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Nick GravesX wrote:
I think the cancellation of everything Acura of any interest led them to announce the eSHAWD cars a bit prematurely and then they found out just how hard it is to develop such innovative tech.

Yes, I'd not have started from here either, but they should (20/20 hindsight!) have offered the old Regendo AWD under the RLX from the off and given themselves more time.

Remember, SH-AWD was first installed on a Vigor back in about '95.


Of course it's easy to say now (and that's the benefit of hindsight). However, we have to be honest with ourselves. Had they done that, the comments here would be "I waited 10 years and nothing changed" With this in mind, I'm encouraged to see them pushing the envelope, even if they have teething pains getting it out the door.

superchg2 wrote:

I double checked and the 20,000,000 figure is GM recalls during 2014.


Yikes! That is amazing!?
DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2014 01:15
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superchg2 wrote:
I guess it is better to get this eSH-AWD issue squared away before they hit the lots. I read that GM has recalled over 20,000,000 cars this year.




Unfortunately, GM recalls have nothing to do with how fucked up Honda is right now with these continual botched product launches. This better be a supplier failure and not an engineering one. I've had doubts about this approach for awhile, due to complexity, and I really hope the new Detroit Honda gave their engineers the time and money to do this correctly.

Besides, they won't even know if their "good enough" fixes now to get it down the road will actually fix everything long term...I mean, if something has come to light this late in the game, they are under even more time constraint and rushing than before, which may breed even more mistakes.

When the exception becomes the norm...watch out.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: RLX Sport Hybrid delay reason.    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-27-2014 06:33
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Colin wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
I think the cancellation of everything Acura of any interest led them to announce the eSHAWD cars a bit prematurely and then they found out just how hard it is to develop such innovative tech.

Yes, I'd not have started from here either, but they should (20/20 hindsight!) have offered the old Regendo AWD under the RLX from the off and given themselves more time.

Remember, SH-AWD was first installed on a Vigor back in about '95.


Of course it's easy to say now (and that's the benefit of hindsight). However, we have to be honest with ourselves. Had they done that, the comments here would be "I waited 10 years and nothing changed" With this in mind, I'm encouraged to see them pushing the envelope, even if they have teething pains getting it out the door.

superchg2 wrote:

I double checked and the 20,000,000 figure is GM recalls during 2014.


Yikes! That is amazing!?



Nail on head, there Colin. Unfortunately, that is the elephant in the room with the re-skinned Legend (giving it a KC code was a bit overselling it!) and it's gonna take a pretty fancy driveline perception to alter that perspective. Needless to say, I'm not expecting any miracles with the hybrid...

20m - schmillion. Mary Barras has more-or-less announced that this could be the tip of an iceberg, now they're in the meeja's crosshairs and they've had to set up one of those 'Quality Czars' or whatever the buzzword is.




 
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