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TOV Forums > TOV Asia > > Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official

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Midi_Amp
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Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 03:30
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www.honda.co.th/new-sedan/

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I really don't know what to say on this one. I was surprised Honda would make a sedan out of Brio at all, all I know we'll get an MPV version of it.

Frankly, I saw it on the hideous side. On the hatch, the overarching lines from front and rear kind of make the car looked aggressive, on the sedan it doesn't work well. Perhaps if it only has one crease from the front to the back stopping on the rear passenger door it would look better.

Also, my biggest concern is that there are several instance of mini hatch turn sedan sort of thing which to me doesn't look nice at all. Suzuki Swift sedan and Peugeot 207 sedan. The designer just took the base hatch and add trunk, with no change in stance, dimension and all. Making somewhat of a gaudy car.

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This is what a Brio looks like from the side, add a trunk... And you get the sedan. I hope the designer at least lengthen the bumper like the Fit Shuttle and lower the ride a little.

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I wanted to share my review with the Brio, but still having tough time to find... Well.. Time.... The Indonesian version has small revision (100% tinted glass hatch on the lower side) and bigger 1.3L (closer to 1.4L) engine.
danielgr
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 03:51
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Yeah, I agree pretty much on that no compact turn into sedan looks nice.

You could have also chosen Honda's original Fit/City combo, it wasn't better. Yet it's a necessary step for some markets. With more time, Honda may end up doing what they've done with the City, and turn it into a different car altogether (while still sharing platform).

Still, I would bet many people on that part of the world will be glad to have it in the market.
WongKN
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 04:02
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Good catch Midi-Amp. I wasn't aware that Honda has put this photo up in their website. Good material for me to put up a post at the Honda Fan. :)
Midi_Amp
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 04:30
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danielgr wrote:
Yeah, I agree pretty much on that no compact turn into sedan looks nice.

You could have also chosen Honda's original Fit/City combo, it wasn't better. Yet it's a necessary step for some markets. With more time, Honda may end up doing what they've done with the City, and turn it into a different car altogether (while still sharing platform).

Still, I would bet many people on that part of the world will be glad to have it in the market.


Well, Ford manages to pull the Fiesta sedan nicely than Mazda with its Mazda 2 sedan from the original 2 hatch. The Mazda 2 sharp lines which tapers nicely on the hatch makes the sedan looks like it has very high trunk. I don't know, maybe because the Fiesta frontal area is longer, so the lines balanced out on a longer looking sedan, while the Mazda 2 shorter front makes for a weirder looking sedan.

Agreed on the City evolution, the old one is like a balloon while the current generation looks like it has nothing related at all from the previous gen.

On this part of the world, value is king and Honda is far from value no matter how hard they try. The Brio carries a price premium over its direct competitors by 10%. Sure it has airbag and ABS as standard (our safety standard is extra low), 5 speed auto and most powerful engine in the class, but you can notice the cost saving/cutting/chopping like a sore thumb. Side door pocket with exposed door sheet metal, cheap seat fabric, seat designed with cost saving measures (built-in headrest), and the coup de grāce, that all glass hatch with no heater and wiper.

I will try to find time to do the review, it's been a long time since my blog got an update anyway. The Brio is okay, but it's nowhere near Honda Fit level of usability which is the car the Brio replaced.
danielgr
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 04:48
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Midi_Amp wrote:
danielgr wrote:
Yeah, I agree pretty much on that no compact turn into sedan looks nice.

You could have also chosen Honda's original Fit/City combo, it wasn't better. Yet it's a necessary step for some markets. With more time, Honda may end up doing what they've done with the City, and turn it into a different car altogether (while still sharing platform).

Still, I would bet many people on that part of the world will be glad to have it in the market.


Well, Ford manages to pull the Fiesta sedan nicely than Mazda with its Mazda 2 sedan from the original 2 hatch. The Mazda 2 sharp lines which tapers nicely on the hatch makes the sedan looks like it has very high trunk. I don't know, maybe because the Fiesta frontal area is longer, so the lines balanced out on a longer looking sedan, while the Mazda 2 shorter front makes for a weirder looking sedan.

Agreed on the City evolution, the old one is like a balloon while the current generation looks like it has nothing related at all from the previous gen.

On this part of the world, value is king and Honda is far from value no matter how hard they try. The Brio carries a price premium over its direct competitors by 10%. Sure it has airbag and ABS as standard (our safety standard is extra low), 5 speed auto and most powerful engine in the class, but you can notice the cost saving/cutting/chopping like a sore thumb. Side door pocket with exposed door sheet metal, cheap seat fabric, seat designed with cost saving measures (built-in headrest), and the coup de grāce, that all glass hatch with no heater and wiper.

I will try to find time to do the review, it's been a long time since my blog got an update anyway. The Brio is okay, but it's nowhere near Honda Fit level of usability which is the car the Brio replaced.

Well, don't forget to update us when you get it ready. I'm pretty much interested on the Brio as well, though certainly wouldn't expect it to be able to compete with the Fit on anything; don't think it pretends to either given the price.

As you said, it's all about value, but for sure you know your market better than me and I hope you can share your views on that promised review.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 04:58
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danielgr wrote:
Midi_Amp wrote:
danielgr wrote:
Yeah, I agree pretty much on that no compact turn into sedan looks nice.

You could have also chosen Honda's original Fit/City combo, it wasn't better. Yet it's a necessary step for some markets. With more time, Honda may end up doing what they've done with the City, and turn it into a different car altogether (while still sharing platform).

Still, I would bet many people on that part of the world will be glad to have it in the market.


Well, Ford manages to pull the Fiesta sedan nicely than Mazda with its Mazda 2 sedan from the original 2 hatch. The Mazda 2 sharp lines which tapers nicely on the hatch makes the sedan looks like it has very high trunk. I don't know, maybe because the Fiesta frontal area is longer, so the lines balanced out on a longer looking sedan, while the Mazda 2 shorter front makes for a weirder looking sedan.

Agreed on the City evolution, the old one is like a balloon while the current generation looks like it has nothing related at all from the previous gen.

On this part of the world, value is king and Honda is far from value no matter how hard they try. The Brio carries a price premium over its direct competitors by 10%. Sure it has airbag and ABS as standard (our safety standard is extra low), 5 speed auto and most powerful engine in the class, but you can notice the cost saving/cutting/chopping like a sore thumb. Side door pocket with exposed door sheet metal, cheap seat fabric, seat designed with cost saving measures (built-in headrest), and the coup de grāce, that all glass hatch with no heater and wiper.

I will try to find time to do the review, it's been a long time since my blog got an update anyway. The Brio is okay, but it's nowhere near Honda Fit level of usability which is the car the Brio replaced.

Well, don't forget to update us when you get it ready. I'm pretty much interested on the Brio as well, though certainly wouldn't expect it to be able to compete with the Fit on anything; don't think it pretends to either given the price.

As you said, it's all about value, but for sure you know your market better than me and I hope you can share your views on that promised review.


PS: Would be great if you guys (Wong and you) got together and resuscitate TOVA.
Don't need to have each his blog, rather have a single one with a wider audience regarding Asian matters. I could help from time to time with stuff from Japan.
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-27-2012 22:24
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I wonder why they chose that picture for the rear, they could just use a side profile pic for the teaser. I don't think that is the best choice (or maybe it is!)

Midi_Amp wrote:
Agreed on the City evolution, the old one is like a balloon while the current generation looks like it has nothing related at all from the previous gen.


If the Brio is supposed to be the least expensive Honda then it is going to look weird due to small size unless they design from the start to be seddan but obviously that is not the case. So they put a compartment at the back and call it a sedan, then it is going to look really weird. Sadly the Brio doesn't seem like it is off to a good start.. I simply don't see any news about that car at all, doesn't seem to be a good seller, but maybe I'm wrong.

I am quite glad the City is designed from beginning to be sedan and doesn't look like a Fit/Jazz with a butt.
WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-28-2012 00:15
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danielgr wrote:
...
PS: Would be great if you guys (Wong and you) got together and resuscitate TOVA.
Don't need to have each his blog, rather have a single one with a wider audience regarding Asian matters. I could help from time to time with stuff from Japan.


This is a great idea Daniel. With the TOVA blog 'Honda-Fan' quite well established by now and fully integrated as part of TOVA and the vehicle for publishing up-dates, corporate press releases and info, and short articles, leaving TOVA for the main 'serious hardcore' stuff, it is very easy for me to accept new contributors.

There is one important consideration though. Writing for TOVA/Honda-Fan is by necessity a 'labour of love'. There has never been and will never be any form of monetary or other form of compensation. It's all about the passion for Honda and for writing about Honda. It is about sharing.

Don't worry about not being a writer by profession. It is blog-style publishing after all. If one goes into it with honest passion, it will show and people will appreciate.

So, Midi_Amp, if you are willing to contribute to Honda-Fan, go ahead and let me know. I think you know how to contact me. It is very easy to add you, or anyone else for that matter, as an 'author' (meaning contributing writer) to Honda-Fan. Daniel is already one. From there, we make progress as we see fit. For sure a drive review for the Brio, even one at the dealers, will be a first for TOVA and one of very few in Asia.
Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-28-2012 01:54
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
I wonder why they chose that picture for the rear, they could just use a side profile pic for the teaser. I don't think that is the best choice (or maybe it is!)

Midi_Amp wrote:
Agreed on the City evolution, the old one is like a balloon while the current generation looks like it has nothing related at all from the previous gen.


If the Brio is supposed to be the least expensive Honda then it is going to look weird due to small size unless they design from the start to be sedan but obviously that is not the case. So they put a compartment at the back and call it a sedan, then it is going to look really weird. Sadly the Brio doesn't seem like it is off to a good start.. I simply don't see any news about that car at all, doesn't seem to be a good seller, but maybe I'm wrong.

I am quite glad the City is designed from beginning to be sedan and doesn't look like a Fit/Jazz with a butt.


I'm afraid, that is the best picture they can get. Like the Suzuki SX4 sedan, the 207 sedan, and the Mazda 2 sedan promo, they all shot from 3/4 rear, to showcase the trunks. Meaning, the front end will have no revision whatsoever, minus minor grill treatment.

Personally, best mini sedan design I found is the refreshed Proton Saga 1.3. It looks proper. Sure it has clownish tall cab like every other mini sedan (it's given), but it doesn't have any rakish lines that fools the eyes thinking it has some extra girth on the back.

The Brio is having a good start in Indonesia. 2000+ preordered on the launch day which is over the original 1300 target, but off course, my countrymen will gobble up new products *snap* like that and occasionally threw it out *snap* like that. So if anybody wants to open up a business here, never worry about barrier to entry, us will try anything new.
Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-28-2012 02:10
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WongKN wrote:
danielgr wrote:
...
PS: Would be great if you guys (Wong and you) got together and resuscitate TOVA.
Don't need to have each his blog, rather have a single one with a wider audience regarding Asian matters. I could help from time to time with stuff from Japan.


This is a great idea Daniel. With the TOVA blog 'Honda-Fan' quite well established by now and fully integrated as part of TOVA and the vehicle for publishing up-dates, corporate press releases and info, and short articles, leaving TOVA for the main 'serious hardcore' stuff, it is very easy for me to accept new contributors.

There is one important consideration though. Writing for TOVA/Honda-Fan is by necessity a 'labour of love'. There has never been and will never be any form of monetary or other form of compensation. It's all about the passion for Honda and for writing about Honda. It is about sharing.

Don't worry about not being a writer by profession. It is blog-style publishing after all. If one goes into it with honest passion, it will show and people will appreciate.

So, Midi_Amp, if you are willing to contribute to Honda-Fan, go ahead and let me know. I think you know how to contact me. It is very easy to add you, or anyone else for that matter, as an 'author' (meaning contributing writer) to Honda-Fan. Daniel is already one. From there, we make progress as we see fit. For sure a drive review for the Brio, even one at the dealers, will be a first for TOVA and one of very few in Asia.


Hi Wong, I'm afraid my writing standard might be not up to yours. I wrote long winded article and occasionally repeats some key points, a habit from my part time job as a lecturer.

I actually started my blog about everything Honda since 2005. It's more of a mess, since it has no structure and I'm in it for the "love" as well. My blog even has no advertisement whatsoever since I got the hosting service free from a friend whom I helped start his hosting business. So yeah, don't worry about compensation. I also have good connection with the sales manager from my regular Honda dealer (my family and extended family bought all of our Honda from there), so I might request some funny thing or two, but no promises except for extended test drive :P

Perhaps I will send you my article first, then you can judge if it's publish worthy material.

By the way, I couldn't find your contact info, could you send it to me first? To: g u v e 2 5 # y a h o o . c o m (no space and replace the #). It's just a landing email, once I got your contact, I will notify you through my regular email account from gmail.
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-28-2012 21:41
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Midi_Amp wrote:
Personally, best mini sedan design I found is the refreshed Proton Saga 1.3. It looks proper. Sure it has clownish tall cab like every other mini sedan (it's given), but it doesn't have any rakish lines that fools the eyes thinking it has some extra girth on the back.


Yeah, but don't forget, that is designed from the beginning as a sedan. With that in mind, personally, I think that's not as well done as it should be, and this refresh came out only because it was given a quick redesign because the original was a horrible design. Lastly, that new design had the shape, but the elements in the headlights for example are all no subtance... they just filled it in with blank areas instead of designing a proper reflector inside the headlights, for example (among other things), so the end result was it look like one of those China-made knock-off headlight products...

Of your examples, the Mazda2 and the Fiesta sedan designs to me are the better ones, but I think they are developed side by side with the hatch instead of added in later(?). They have their proportion problems (as with the City) but overall it is minor. I looked hard at the Mazda when I went car shopping, but the small interior space, high price and stupid interior design is what stopped me from going further.


The Brio is having a good start in Indonesia. 2000+ preordered on the launch day which is over the original 1300 target, but off course, my countrymen will gobble up new products *snap* like that and occasionally threw it out *snap* like that. So if anybody wants to open up a business here, never worry about barrier to entry, us will try anything new.


It is good to see the Brio selling over target, but then again it is new, we have to see the 'stamina' of the sales. We don't get the Brio here, I think it would be totally destroyed by our locally made 'competition'. After all my wife just bought a Perodua Myvi (Daihatsu Boon/Toyota Passo clone) as a second car as it is cheap and acceptably built, and well just mostly cheap.
DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L teaser    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-31-2012 17:33
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Midi_Amp wrote:
The designer just took the base hatch and add trunk, with no change in stance, dimension and all

I think the wb is extended.
Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 13:13
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Well, looks like you're spot on DrWhiner, the Brio Sedan wheelbase is extended. Before the official unveiling, the car image was found around the internet (on purpose?) and it shows quite good proportion, and I'm positive too they extend the wheelbase.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

There two notable improvements vs the Brio hatch which are longer wheelbase at 2405mm Vs 2345mm, and usable trunk. I don't know why, but the Brio hatch trunk is hilariously small, bordering unusable to store full size luggage. I have no problem with the Brio interior space, it's smartly packaged for tall (1.8meter-ish) person, but the added trunk space is what the car needs. The other minor improvement is the rear glass heater... The hatch doesn't have it, and on rainy days in the tropics, you'll (not) love the foggy view out back.

The price point is bordering the flabbergast though... The Brio sedan... uhm... The Brio Amaze is only 5% more expensive than the Brio hatch, why would anybody buy the hatch with such a glaring fault on the carrying capacity side?

I heard from my colleague at Thailand branch that the Brio is not selling well over there (although sellout is okay in Indonesia), maybe the Brio Amaze price point is the result of Honda wanting to popularize the car at the cost of reduced profit. More leg room and usable trunk at just 5% price increase, I will say no to the gangly hatch.
xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 14:24
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Midi_Amp wrote:
Well, looks like you're spot on DrWhiner, the Brio Sedan wheelbase is extended. Before the official unveiling, the car image was found around the internet (on purpose?) and it shows quite good proportion, and I'm positive too they extend the wheelbase.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

There two notable improvements vs the Brio hatch which are longer wheelbase at 2405mm Vs 2345mm, and usable trunk. I don't know why, but the Brio hatch trunk is hilariously small, bordering unusable to store full size luggage. I have no problem with the Brio interior space, it's smartly packaged for tall (1.8meter-ish) person, but the added trunk space is what the car needs. The other minor improvement is the rear glass heater... The hatch doesn't have it, and on rainy days in the tropics, you'll (not) love the foggy view out back.

The price point is bordering the flabbergast though... The Brio sedan... uhm... The Brio Amaze is only 5% more expensive than the Brio hatch, why would anybody buy the hatch with such a glaring fault on the carrying capacity side?

I heard from my colleague at Thailand branch that the Brio is not selling well over there (although sellout is okay in Indonesia), maybe the Brio Amaze price point is the result of Honda wanting to popularize the car at the cost of reduced profit. More leg room and usable trunk at just 5% price increase, I will say no to the gangly hatch.


How does this fit tall people?
Midi_Amp
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 20:56
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It's a small car, but the head room is adequate for me (1.8 meter/5.9 feet). The tall cab and low floor helps, and the thin door panels helps give the sensation of a big interior.
FiSH-Chan
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 21:26
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
How does this fit tall people?


By making the car roof very tall. Can't figure out how small or big this car is from th pics.

I think the side of the car is overstyled...
Midi_Amp
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 21:55
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Well, that's the glory shot, here's the not so glorious side look.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

I also don't like the overstylize side panel, especially the line going from the taillights to the rear door panel, looks better without.

Here's my botch US$50 adobe photoshop crash course with 25% discount of said application.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Obviously, everything from the nose up to B pillar is carryover from the hatch, but leaving the rear side panels blank might make the car a bit too plain. Still, it looks okay, the sweetest deal is that longer wheelbase, overstylized look is just a matter of taste.
blackstripe77
Profile for blackstripe77
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 23:14
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Speaking of small sedans, shouldn't one compare the sleek Mazda2/Fiesta with the City, rather than the smaller Brio Sedan?

Anyways, I expect that as the disposable income in a country rises they move on to larger, more luxurious (less barebones) cars. The Fit/Jazz/City may be as small as many in Thailand will go. There are few brands that are able to slot themselves below Honda and Toyota, and even then, they don't appear to be particularly popular despite being very low cost. The fact that the tax concessions for "first new cars" includes those larger cars (or sometimes larger cars with tiny engines) makes it even harder to sell the smaller, budget conscious cars.
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 00:40
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blackstripe77 wrote:
Speaking of small sedans, shouldn't one compare the sleek Mazda2/Fiesta with the City, rather than the smaller Brio Sedan?


Yes the Mazda/Fiesta should be compared to the City. (No contest) But I think Midi_amp was showing how a hatch made into sedan will look, with those examples that has side crease thing angle going so high to the back that on the sedan it looks like it has a high butt.
Midi_Amp
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 22:15
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
blackstripe77 wrote:
Speaking of small sedans, shouldn't one compare the sleek Mazda2/Fiesta with the City, rather than the smaller Brio Sedan?


Yes the Mazda/Fiesta should be compared to the City. (No contest) But I think Midi_amp was showing how a hatch made into sedan will look, with those examples that has side crease thing angle going so high to the back that on the sedan it looks like it has a high butt.


Like FiSh-Chan said, I was comparing to the design aspect of the Mazda 2 and Ford Fiesta which are both based on the same platform but one pulls off a better sedan from the side profile then the other.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

The Mazda 2 angled lines made it look like it's rear heavy or having large boot/trunk whichever you want to look at it.
blackstripe77
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Re: Brio Sedan 1.2L official    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-26-2012 11:28
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Although the Fiesta sedan looks nice from the front, the rear still looks truncated. In comparison, despite the stubbier look of the Mazda2, the sweeping roofline and sharper design language towards the rear make the 2 look sleeker. Obviously, the sweeping roof cuts into headroom, and the problem is made even worse with a smaller car, which has to be more upright to accommodate passengers (see how the Brio's roof stays up, with the rear windscreen and tail of the car dropping off shortly to keep the car short).

The City is a totally different story. Just looks like a well-proportioned sedan, but smaller.
 
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