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TOV Forums > NSX > > Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio

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CivicB18
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Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-22-2012 15:24
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Mikeydred wrote:
It's almost a lock the NSX will have DOHC to take advantage of exhaust and intake!



I'd like to think that but the J- Series has always employed a SOHC design. I'm thinking about how hard it would be to adopt DOHC heads on a stout J-Series block? Could you imagine a twin turbo, DOHC, Honda i-VTEC V6 with VTC along with the 7DCT and 3 electric motors? Talk about torque!


~Patrick
JP
Profile for JP
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-22-2012 15:57
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Nick Graves wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
The J-Series V6 will not make a good engine for the NSX.

The bore spacing is only 98 mm

In a 3.5L V6 engine to be able to rev high it should have at least a 93mm bore.The J-Series max bore width is 90mm.

The 2.8L J-Series engine in the LMP2 Class has a redline around 7600 rpm with a shift point of 6200 rpm.



The bore spacing of the V10 was 102mm (initially 90 x 78.5 mm) so I'd wager there's your answer...



98mm bore is the light for 3.5L and 8000 rpm red line.
P54
Profile for P54
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-22-2012 17:28
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Why not go all the way and make it real exotic? Put in one of these.




S600=Dream
Profile for S600=Dream
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-22-2012 19:36
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I'm fine--excited, even--about the hybrid drivetrain, the 7 speed DSG, the potential performance numbers and game changing vision of the new NSX, but I would be ten times more excited about the model as a whole if it were offered in two "versions" like the RLX will be.

I would love to see a "simple" drivetrain NSX; without the hybrid, with just the V6, with a 6 speed manual. Like the original car.

That would make my heart so happy.
Wingz1
Profile for Wingz1
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 05:52
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Jeff wrote:
WingZ wrote:
Well nothing new about this as it's what Ito has said from the beginning. Seems as though it will share the same engine as the RLX which makes me seriously doubt the sticker much over $100k.

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=102200&Em=1&topicId=224720010&docId=u:1784365066&start=5&md5=e55c92c098aa2aa16862797150248e3a&sendDate=20121119


"3. A three-motor hybrid powertrain for top-end models such as the Acura NSX sports car and RLX sedan. This system uses one motor in the powerplant, plus electric motors at both rear wheels to deliver independent torque for tighter cornering.

The first motor is connected to the engine, provides additional torque to the wheels and recharges the battery.

The second and third motors help power the car as well as provide sharper handling and additional regenerative-braking capability to recharge the battery.

It gets a new fuel-injected 3.5-liter V-6 engine and a newly developed seven-speed, dual-clutch transmission.

The NSX will be built in Ohio and go on sale in 2014."



Based on conversations in Tokyo and Tochigi, I'm getting a strong vibe that this V6 will be pressurized.



Really?? Other than the upcoming one Civic Type R in Europe that we're not getting here (unless that's changed) Honda has always left them alone. Even the RDX engine didn't make it to other models and they discontinued it.

Ito's vision as he laid it out for the NSX was a green machine that wasn't going to have HP like the 568 but be more power to weight.

What most of you are hoping for doesn't sound anything like what's been mentioned. Honda has never really out-powered it's rivals.

If you look at the new 911 S with "only" 400hp is very close in performance to the 568 and that's at 3200lbs.

Of course I guess if all the M's are going FI Honda would as well. If you can't beat'em join'em.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 10:57
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The 2015 Class

Audi R10 diesel turbo hybrid kers 600+ hp

Audi R8 petrol 550 hp

McLaren MP4-12C petrol turbo 600+ hp

Ferrari 458 petrol kers 600+ hp

BMW M8 petrol turbo 600+ hp

So lets say your in the market to buy a Second Tier Sports Car would you buy a 450 hp NSX over this choices?
In 2015 you must be around 600 hp to have a chance.

And a rear engine sports car(911) can always get away with less horsepower and still compete.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 11:45
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RolledaNsx wrote:

In 2015 you must be around 600 hp to have a chance.


In your opinion.
BachelorFrog
Profile for BachelorFrog
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 13:56
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superchg2 wrote:In your opinion.

As in?
Mp4-12c is now pushing 610hp+ and soon Ferrari will release the ~600hp Scuderia 458 so I think NSX's target hp is reasonable.
Wingz1
Profile for Wingz1
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 14:46
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LOL Well I'm the wrong person to ask since I bought a new NSX. This is considered to be the worst possible car to buy new since it was considered so "under powered"and basically the same as an old one.

Big however here for anyone who's smart enough to look at more than HP.

The Ferrari 360 with 400 hp and a little over $120k hp (used were running closer to $100k at that point this was 2005) 0-60 and 1/4 times were within 1-2 tenth's of a second to the similar weight but "under powered" 290hp NSX. Viper was about a half second faster but came with truck sound , calf burning side sills. Relative told me I could use their discount which made it just a bit more than the NSX.

Next was price. Although sticker was at $90k Honda was offering $4k off and dealers would sell at invoice so NSX was coming in at $74k. Although this for a hand built Honda reliable exotic car that runs track all day but gets me home with highway MPG sometimes close to 30mpg.

Would I buy a 450hp NSX over the other choices after seven years with current car ...HELL YES! If the old car can 4.5 0-60 with a six speed manual and "only" 290hp the new car similar or less weight instant electric tq and trick tranny will be crazy fast.

Honda builds cars for enthusiasts (or at least used to) I don't see guys driving the cars you listed everyday. 450hp that can run with big dogs is very possible with the tech going into the car.

Where's the NSX magic if it has the same HP as all the other cars just to do what they do??? But if it can match them at 400-450hp now that's an NSX!

I'm hoping for an NSX.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 16:05
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I would buy a 450hp NSX too because I know a few of the engineers on the project and I know they wouldn't do me wrong on that purchase.But how many people would?And sorry its not going to cost 74k with a rebate!!!!!

Will have to wait and see but the internal talk is almost the same goal as the 2015 CTR..... beat the GT-R at the "Ring"
In 2015 how much horsepower will the GT-R have and the rumors are that it will be hybrid too and lighter.

I drive my 458 Spider everyday except during bad weather(I live in the mountains).

I own a 94 White NSX-R that I don't drive on public roads(twice a year track time only).
Wingz1
Profile for Wingz1
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 16:27
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LOL I'm pretty sure it won't be $74K but I'm sure it will be great price for the performance.

Well the V10 was very close to the GTR in early testing so they should be able to do it. Not worried as still very happy with current car and it's not faster than the GTR on the Ring.

Awesome combo must be nice to live in Japan and have a real NSX-R. What makes you keep the 94 over getting NA2 NSX-R??

Wish they would've given us (U.S) one ,but they're Type R and psuedo Type S (Zanardi) never sold well here so made good business sense.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 17:37
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RolledaNsx wrote:

I drive my 458 Spider everyday except during bad weather(I live in the mountains).

I own a 94 White NSX-R that I don't drive on public roads(twice a year track time only).


The mountains of Japan?
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 17:49
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RolledaNsx wrote:

I drive my 458 Spider everyday except during bad weather(I live in the mountains).

I own a 94 White NSX-R that I don't drive on public roads(twice a year track time only).


The mountains of Japan?
...or did you import a JDM NSX-R to the U.S.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 17:52
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Why would I replace the original NSX track car?!?!
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 17:53
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to Austria
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 18:20
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RolledaNsx wrote:
to Austria

Dude, you sure get around. Was the NSX you rolled from your own stable of cars?
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 19:05
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no
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 19:16
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RolledaNsx wrote:
to Austria


Having visited the country only last month, you are indeed a fortunate man [not least because you drive the only Ferrari I actually lust after] :)
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-23-2012 22:30
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sadlerau

Where did you visit?

I live in Tyrol

I fell in love with this area back when I was a child visiting my grandparents during the summer and winter break.While sking I learned the ski bunnies loved a tall German/Japanese boy with green eyes. :)
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 04:29
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We landed in Vienna, then did a river cruise up the Danube to the Rhine, a fantastic way to spend 13 days. Your a lucky lad with those Austrian beauties showing interest :)
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 11:27
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Lets get the engineers in this forum thinking

Lets say Honda is going the turbo route and with that route there is a heat problem that lithium batteries and electric motors don't like.

How would you do it?

Me) I would like two turbos for the V6 but with the mid transverse location that will be problematic.... space and heat.
So I would take a modern old school route with the engine.
I would design the V6 engine with the exhaust on the inside and use one twin scroll turbo mounted high rear between the banks away from the battery and electric motor.
But you would like a wider V angle of the V6 to do this.
So back to 90 degree angle like the C-series?
I would use a 80 degree angle because it is better balanced than a 90 and still give me the space I need.

I was just thinking :)
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 13:26
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I'd wager it's 90 degrees anyway, because of its relationship to the V8 & V10...

The problem with the suggested install would be you'd have the turbo & cat high in the engine bay; heat soak issues would remain, since they'd have to be above the tranny/motor set.

Unless you divide them off into a rear wing cavity or use a heatproof membrane to split the engine bay, they'd be better off low down & to the front, where you'd put the a/c & gen on the old car. You could maybe vent the heat again through the outer wing & away to the opposite side.

Or turn it round & go for inline installation and probably lose the rear boot capacity...
RSX
Profile for RSX
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 13:40
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Lets get the engineers in this forum thinking

Lets say Honda is going the turbo route and with that route there is a heat problem that lithium batteries and electric motors don't like.

How would you do it?

Me) I would like two turbos for the V6 but with the mid transverse location that will be problematic.... space and heat.
So I would take a modern old school route with the engine.
I would design the V6 engine with the exhaust on the inside and use one twin scroll turbo mounted high rear between the banks away from the battery and electric motor.
But you would like a wider V angle of the V6 to do this.
So back to 90 degree angle like the C-series?
I would use a 80 degree angle because it is better balanced than a 90 and still give me the space I need.

I was just thinking :)



Why not just put the batteries up front? That way that can get direct cooling from air intakes. Plus they will be closer to the front wheels that they will be driving. The turbos will be aft and far away from the batteries.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 15:48
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I wouldn't be surprise if we see the V10's little brother in the NSX.

The 90 degree dohc 5.0 V10 was a modular engine with the original 3.0 liter V6 going in the S2000 replacement and the 4.0 liter V8 going into the rwd RL.

Also the engine was designed to gain displacement (initially 90 x 78.5 mm) but with the 102mm bore spacing the bore can go to 94mm.

So a 94 x 84 gives a perfect 3.5 liter V6 than can rev to 9000 rpm's.

Want do we call it?

N35a

Power1Pete
Profile for Power1Pete
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 15:56
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I agree the 80 degree design, like the RA163E back in the 80s, won't happen here due to excessive vibration. 90 degree would make it silky smooth, good fit for both RLX and NSX.
BachelorFrog
Profile for BachelorFrog
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-24-2012 20:53
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Well, I was thinking why not dump the V6 turdbo things and use 2 S2000 engines.
So in theory: 4.0 2 L V8, flat plane crank design, direct injection, DLC coatings dry sump and ~510hp.

So the NA will solve the heat problem and I think it will be compact than V6 TT too.
Wingz1
Profile for Wingz1
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2012 06:31
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The S2K replacement from what we've seen is based off the EV-STER concept which is confirmed for production right?

Wouldn't Honda be using the ED tech for this and the two motor hybrid system seems to be the most logical performance choice.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2012 11:44
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RolledaNsx wrote:
I wouldn't be surprise if we see the V10's little brother in the NSX.

The 90 degree dohc 5.0 V10 was a modular engine with the original 3.0 liter V6 going in the S2000 replacement and the 4.0 liter V8 going into the rwd RL.

Also the engine was designed to gain displacement (initially 90 x 78.5 mm) but with the 102mm bore spacing the bore can go to 94mm.

So a 94 x 84 gives a perfect 3.5 liter V6 than can rev to 9000 rpm's.

Want do we call it?

N35a




Not quite 9K at 84mm stroke; the N50 was:

405 KW @ 8,200

513 Nm @ 7,000

Fuel cut @ 8,5000

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2012 12:36
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I was told the N50 had a fuel cut off @ 10,000 rpm

That tech paper don't tell the whole story

just enough to make us mad that we are not going to see that engine in the big brother form!
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito confirms 3.5 V6 built in Ohio    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2012 12:43
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for the production model 9,500 rpm
 
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