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nightflow
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http://www.leftlanenews.com/audi-to-replace-traditional-awd-with-e-quattro-in-certain-next-gen-vehicles.html
Looks like a similar setup to the RLX (engine drives front, emotors drive rear) for future A4 and A6 models on the MLB platform.
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Grizzly
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I wonder what this says about the next gen TL. If Audi is able to provide this electrical AWD system at relatively lower price points (as in the upcoming A4), can Acura do the same? Could we see a variant of the SH-SHAWD show up in the 5th gen TL?
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
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nightflow
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Latest I read was that the next TLX will have the 2 motor hybrid variant w/ about 45mpg combined. It doesn't seem likely that they would have two hybrid variants of the TLX.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/08/acura-tlx-to-get-45-mpg-hybrid-ilx-coupe-dropped.html
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Colin
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Grizzly wrote:
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
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Assuming that the two cars (RL and TL) are both built on a version of the global midsized chassis, then it's almost guaranteed that the battery pack placement in the two will be the same. This would give them a lot of choices without re-engineering the whole car. I could see a situation where the RL launches with the 'all singing, all dancing' version of the new eSHAWD and the TLX with a ED 4 cylinder + 2 motor system and ED V-6 with 6AT.
This could give Acura a more upscale 4 cylinder model if/when the TSX finishes it's run. Then at MMC they could add a Type-S version with the V-6 plus 2 motor system or go full tilt with the RL's 3 motor system.
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Nick GravesX
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Colin wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
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Assuming that the two cars (RL and TL) are both built on a version of the global midsized chassis, then it's almost guaranteed that the battery pack placement in the two will be the same. This would give them a lot of choices without re-engineering the whole car. I could see a situation where the RL launches with the 'all singing, all dancing' version of the new eSHAWD and the TLX with a ED 4 cylinder + 2 motor system and ED V-6 with 6AT.
This could give Acura a more upscale 4 cylinder model if/when the TSX finishes it's run. Then at MMC they could add a Type-S version with the V-6 plus 2 motor system or go full tilt with the RL's 3 motor system.
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No real reason they couldn't do both; the Scrooge hybrid version and the Carlos Fandango hybrid version. Bit like there's a Diseasel A4 and an S4 ATM. I should imagine the new plank is fairly flexible.
But they won't, I suspect. That'd be like consumer choice & might catch on & generate additional sales, or something.
More likely, they'll judge it on sales of the e-RLX vs. PAWS-RLX and make a decision then.
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Colin
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Nick Graves wrote:
Colin wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
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Assuming that the two cars (RL and TL) are both built on a version of the global midsized chassis, then it's almost guaranteed that the battery pack placement in the two will be the same. This would give them a lot of choices without re-engineering the whole car. I could see a situation where the RL launches with the 'all singing, all dancing' version of the new eSHAWD and the TLX with a ED 4 cylinder + 2 motor system and ED V-6 with 6AT.
This could give Acura a more upscale 4 cylinder model if/when the TSX finishes it's run. Then at MMC they could add a Type-S version with the V-6 plus 2 motor system or go full tilt with the RL's 3 motor system.
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But they won't, I suspect. That'd be like consumer choice & might catch on & generate additional sales, or something.
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Thats a pretty common complaint. However, (IMO) they've constantly added more 'consumer choice' and it hasn't resulted in more sales. I'd like to see them go back to basics, offer (mostly) fully loaded cars (priced right) with fewer options. Remember, Acura sold 70K 3G TLs in 2006 with (basically) two versions: Base and Navi.
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Mikeydred
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Colin wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Colin wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
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Assuming that the two cars (RL and TL) are both built on a version of the global midsized chassis, then it's almost guaranteed that the battery pack placement in the two will be the same. This would give them a lot of choices without re-engineering the whole car. I could see a situation where the RL launches with the 'all singing, all dancing' version of the new eSHAWD and the TLX with a ED 4 cylinder + 2 motor system and ED V-6 with 6AT.
This could give Acura a more upscale 4 cylinder model if/when the TSX finishes it's run. Then at MMC they could add a Type-S version with the V-6 plus 2 motor system or go full tilt with the RL's 3 motor system.
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But they won't, I suspect. That'd be like consumer choice & might catch on & generate additional sales, or something.
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Thats a pretty common complaint. However, (IMO) they've constantly added more 'consumer choice' and it hasn't resulted in more sales. I'd like to see them go back to basics, offer (mostly) fully loaded cars (priced right) with fewer options. Remember, Acura sold 70K 3G TLs in 2006 with (basically) two versions: Base and Navi.
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That was in a different economy with less competition, the TL was considered a great value then with many standard features like Bluetooth and DVD audio. Will not happen today, we need different ice cream flavors, including interior color options. Please don’t dumb down the next TL(X) Acura to close the gap between the ILX and spread the gap between the RLX. I owned a 3rd generation TL then moved to the 4th generation because of improvements (looks aside) give me a reason to consider a 5th generation.
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Colin
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Mikeydred wrote:
Colin wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Colin wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
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Assuming that the two cars (RL and TL) are both built on a version of the global midsized chassis, then it's almost guaranteed that the battery pack placement in the two will be the same. This would give them a lot of choices without re-engineering the whole car. I could see a situation where the RL launches with the 'all singing, all dancing' version of the new eSHAWD and the TLX with a ED 4 cylinder + 2 motor system and ED V-6 with 6AT.
This could give Acura a more upscale 4 cylinder model if/when the TSX finishes it's run. Then at MMC they could add a Type-S version with the V-6 plus 2 motor system or go full tilt with the RL's 3 motor system.
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But they won't, I suspect. That'd be like consumer choice & might catch on & generate additional sales, or something.
|
Thats a pretty common complaint. However, (IMO) they've constantly added more 'consumer choice' and it hasn't resulted in more sales. I'd like to see them go back to basics, offer (mostly) fully loaded cars (priced right) with fewer options. Remember, Acura sold 70K 3G TLs in 2006 with (basically) two versions: Base and Navi.
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That was in a different economy with less competition, the TL was considered a great value then with many standard features like Bluetooth and DVD audio. Will not happen today, we need different ice cream flavors, including interior color options. Please don’t dumb down the next TL(X) Acura to close the gap between the ILX and spread the gap between the RLX. I owned a 3rd generation TL then moved to the 4th generation because of improvements (looks aside) give me a reason to consider a 5th generation.
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Of course, the "problem" is that Acuras manufacturing techniques do not (appear) to lend themselves to "flavors" very well. And, since I don't see any evidence that this will change anytime soon we continue to be faced with the dilemma of how to inventory all of these models, trims, and colors.
So this is the disconnect that I see. On the one hand, adding more "flavors" increases choice for customers, on the other hand it makes it much more difficult for people to find exactly what they want. (How many times have we seen somebody complain that they had to search five states to find a Graphite Luster Pearl with an Umber interior?)
Naturally, the responses is; "let me order what I want". And then they find out it takes two or three months to get a car from the order stage to their driveway. Then, the typical response is, "I'm not going to wait three months for (just) an Acura". So this is the Catch-22 that we face, people may wait three months to order a BMW or Mercedes, but won't do the same for an Acura.
Now, before everybody jumps down my throat I want to add the disclaimer that this is my personal observation. I'm not trying to make a generalization for every customer in every situation.
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Colin
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Mikeydred wrote:
Colin wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Colin wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
|
Assuming that the two cars (RL and TL) are both built on a version of the global midsized chassis, then it's almost guaranteed that the battery pack placement in the two will be the same. This would give them a lot of choices without re-engineering the whole car. I could see a situation where the RL launches with the 'all singing, all dancing' version of the new eSHAWD and the TLX with a ED 4 cylinder + 2 motor system and ED V-6 with 6AT.
This could give Acura a more upscale 4 cylinder model if/when the TSX finishes it's run. Then at MMC they could add a Type-S version with the V-6 plus 2 motor system or go full tilt with the RL's 3 motor system.
|
But they won't, I suspect. That'd be like consumer choice & might catch on & generate additional sales, or something.
|
Thats a pretty common complaint. However, (IMO) they've constantly added more 'consumer choice' and it hasn't resulted in more sales. I'd like to see them go back to basics, offer (mostly) fully loaded cars (priced right) with fewer options. Remember, Acura sold 70K 3G TLs in 2006 with (basically) two versions: Base and Navi.
|
That was in a different economy with less competition, the TL was considered a great value then with many standard features like Bluetooth and DVD audio. Will not happen today, we need different ice cream flavors, including interior color options. Please don’t dumb down the next TL(X) Acura to close the gap between the ILX and spread the gap between the RLX. I owned a 3rd generation TL then moved to the 4th generation because of improvements (looks aside) give me a reason to consider a 5th generation.
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Anyway, Nick brought us back to the same old 'what's wrong with Acura' with his comment and I took the bait. Sorry. If I could delete my message(s) I would. This way we could talk about the original topic of what to do with the hybrids.
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Mikeydred
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Colin wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
Colin wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Colin wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
My assumption is no. Acura seems to use the current-at-the-time RL to foreshadow the next TL, which should mean that the SH-SHAWD would not show up until the 6th gen TL. Plus, including the SH-SHAWD in the 5th gen would reduce (but not eliminate) differentiation between the RL and the TL. I also don't know how SH-SHAWD compares to traditional SHAWD in terms of cost, but my assumption is that the sport hybrid version is more expensive at this point in time.
What I really fear is that Acura eliminates traditional SHAWD from the TL lineup. I could see them going FWD only and an optional FWD hybrid.
|
Assuming that the two cars (RL and TL) are both built on a version of the global midsized chassis, then it's almost guaranteed that the battery pack placement in the two will be the same. This would give them a lot of choices without re-engineering the whole car. I could see a situation where the RL launches with the 'all singing, all dancing' version of the new eSHAWD and the TLX with a ED 4 cylinder + 2 motor system and ED V-6 with 6AT.
This could give Acura a more upscale 4 cylinder model if/when the TSX finishes it's run. Then at MMC they could add a Type-S version with the V-6 plus 2 motor system or go full tilt with the RL's 3 motor system.
|
But they won't, I suspect. That'd be like consumer choice & might catch on & generate additional sales, or something.
|
Thats a pretty common complaint. However, (IMO) they've constantly added more 'consumer choice' and it hasn't resulted in more sales. I'd like to see them go back to basics, offer (mostly) fully loaded cars (priced right) with fewer options. Remember, Acura sold 70K 3G TLs in 2006 with (basically) two versions: Base and Navi.
|
That was in a different economy with less competition, the TL was considered a great value then with many standard features like Bluetooth and DVD audio. Will not happen today, we need different ice cream flavors, including interior color options. Please don’t dumb down the next TL(X) Acura to close the gap between the ILX and spread the gap between the RLX. I owned a 3rd generation TL then moved to the 4th generation because of improvements (looks aside) give me a reason to consider a 5th generation.
|
Anyway, Nick brought us back to the same old 'what's wrong with Acura' with his comment and I took the bait. Sorry. If I could delete my message(s) I would. This way we could talk about the original topic of what to do with the hybrids.
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We can easily get back on topic Acura needs to drop the SH-SHAWD in every model, tuned to different strokes for different folks. Why waste such a big investment on 2 low volume models (although I’m excited for the return of the NSX, because yes this is a balls swinging contest). This would be the differential factor between Honda, since the Accord has up the ante. While they’re at it, add PAWS to all base model sedans and conventional AWD or regular SH-AWD to SUV’s while shaving vehicle weight and stick it to Audi.
Not trying to get off topic, but no more cutting corners with interior materials either Acura. I love my 09 TL for better or worse, had a 12 as a loaner and the interior look so much cheaper, the genuine aluminum appeared to have been replaced by cheap plastic faux aluminum, just to add better door handles (which aren’t plated) and some non significant upgrades to the Navi unit I suspect. Bad enough Acura is always ridiculed for not using real wood; in the 90’s if the wood wasn’t real it wasn’t luxury. Although I am not a fan of wood the consumers obviously look at this and there goes 3 status points, automatically you are placed in the fictitious Tier 2 or 3. Things like this will no longer cut it Acura, just bring it and like many have said stop talking and just show results.
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Chocs
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Mikeydred wrote:
Why waste such a big investment on 2 low volume models |
I'm guessing they're being cautious, restricting possible early build issues to a small number of customers - this should avoid mass recalls and whatnot, not to mention justifying special treatment for these top-of-the-line buyers (you'd think anybody will be peeved if their car has a gremlin). Or maybe the additional cost of this tech is simply not worth the performance/FE benefit for higher volume models.
Either that, or it could end up with Mikeydred wrote:
cutting corners with interior materials |
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CivicB18
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I think the RLX, NSX and MDX will offer the SH SH-AWD and we may see a high performance variant of the system in a "TLX-S". Acura desperately needs a full line of great high tech drivetrains instead making them specific to certain higher models. The whole line needs to have a certain standard and go from there. Audi seems to have a much better perception of what a sport/luxury car line should be.
~Patrick
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CarPhreakD
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Not quite. One electric motor through a traditional differential; no driveshaft. Acura's system is hub motors IN the wheels, no axles or differentials. Several implications from these differences too.
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Colin
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Not quite. One electric motor through a traditional differential; no driveshaft. Acura's system is hub motors IN the wheels, no axles or differentials. Several implications from these differences too.
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I think the dual motors are more inboard than hub motors. I think it would use a stubby axle but (obviously) no differential.
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sadlerau
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Colin wrote:
I think the dual motors are more inboard than hub motors. I think it would use a stubby axle but (obviously) no differential. |
Agreed, as the implications of having heavy electric motors as unsprung weight inside the wheel is scary from a handling point of view.
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