Hawkstrike
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180 hp Ford Fiesta ST reported coming to the US:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/08/ford-fiesta-st-confirmed.html
Honda better release a Fit Si or I'll be tempted to jump ship.
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JIRZLEE
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Maybe once the new plant in Mexico is producing Fits that will be a possibility - until then I highly doubt it.
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TonyEX
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Hmm.. HOW MUCH will this thing cost? I dare say it's gonna be more than $24K. And if they use torque vectoring... well... it's gonna be EXPENSIVE.
I dare say the Civic Si will handily whip it, offer more room and cost a lot less.
If anything, AHM should offer a three or five door Civic Si. But I doubt you'd see a Fit with that much power.
Bottom line, I dare say that a super micro car makes sense in Europe but not in the US. And I'm still not convinced that Ford's way of putting undersized turbo'd engines in its cars will really pay off. They may get great EPA numbers but on the real world the engines have to work hard and the mileage suffers... not to mention the complexity, longevity and cost of the turbo.
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Hawkstrike
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Hmm.. HOW MUCH will this thing cost? I dare say it's gonna be more than $24K. And if they use torque vectoring... well... it's gonna be EXPENSIVE.
I dare say the Civic Si will handily whip it, offer more room and cost a lot less.
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Well, more than $24k and it will step on the toes of its big brother, the Focus ST, so probably less than that. I'd expect the Fiesta to get stomped by the Civic, given that the first is a sub-compact and the second a compact; the Civic Si's natural competitor is also the Focus ST.
Bottom line: there will be an emerging sub-compact performance market, shared by a Fiesta and the turbo Fiat 500. Honda has the technology to own that market should they choose to.
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NealX
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The Fiesta ST is my favorite of the Fords.
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superchg2
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TonyE wrote:
Hmm.. HOW MUCH will this thing cost? I dare say it's gonna be more than $24K. And if they use torque vectoring... well... it's gonna be EXPENSIVE.
I dare say the Civic Si will handily whip it, offer more room and cost a lot less.
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Its big brother, the Focus ST is $24,495.
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Inebriated Snake
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TonyE wrote:
Hmm.. HOW MUCH will this thing cost? I dare say it's gonna be more than $24K. And if they use torque vectoring... well... it's gonna be EXPENSIVE.
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Ever since the Firestone/Explorer roll-over recalls, Ford has invested a ton of money into their VSC/VSA Traction Control software/hardware. Its actually one of the industry's better systems. But every time they add a new set or calibration it gets marketed as a new safety feature. On the Explorer website they list is about 6 or so different safety features that are really just the one VSC. Yet they have to market it in a way that makes their VSC better than others.
Their torque vectoring isn't really vectoring, just calibrated wheel braking. On the ST its probably calibrated for better cornering. On the regular Focus its marketed as a system to help cornering in adverse conditions (which it really does). A real LSD would work better, but from my experiences it works well enough when its suppose to and since its mostly software it wouldn't cost much at all aside from possibly cooking your brakes sooner.
I know this is purely anecdotal, but I have felt/heard it once on a corner that I took way too aggressively and stupidly (12Focus). I made an almost 90 degree turn going about 50~55mph on about mid wear stock tires. I should have been in the ditch. I downshifted/braked too late, but just rotated around the corner beautifully with little fuss, except for the wheel drama going on. For about a sec power was trimmed a bit (it doesn't vector). The outside wheel was pushing while the inside was almost fully braked. And once the car was nearly straight the inside let go and I shot out.
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JMU R1
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Inebriated Snake wrote:
A real LSD would work better, but from my experiences it works well enough when its suppose to and since its mostly software it wouldn't cost much at all aside from possibly cooking your brakes sooner.
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This is exactly why I'd avoid cars with this sort of system. Get out on a racetrack and it could result in badly faded brakes and an expensive excursion off track.
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bigblue
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Surely the percentage of time it's actively braking would be so small as to make no difference to fade. And in any case, you could always switch it off, if that's your preference ?
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TonyEX
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superchg2 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
Hmm.. HOW MUCH will this thing cost? I dare say it's gonna be more than $24K. And if they use torque vectoring... well... it's gonna be EXPENSIVE.
I dare say the Civic Si will handily whip it, offer more room and cost a lot less.
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Its big brother, the Focus ST is $24,495.
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I just "built" a Focus Titanium sedan as much as possible like our Civic Si sedan. Our Si's options only are fog lights, all weather mats and NAVI.
The cost of the Focus when I selected some of those options is $25400 and I still did not get the LSD nor the satellite radio. The Focus has the smaller 2.0 liter engine and the MT5... I had to get leather, which I did not want. I personally prefer the black/red seats in the Si.
And the back seat of the Focus is tight... leg room is a full 3 inches less than the Civic.
Besides, Civic has 201bhp... MT6... LSD... there is simply no comparison in my book.
So I think the Civic Si is the much better package and cheaper than the Ford.
BTW- in the Ford, if you add the premium floor mats you have to select two tone leather seats?
So, the bottom line is.... can Ford sell a Fiesta with a motor more powerful than he Focus Titanium? I think that such a "Fiesta Titanium GT" would run a healthy $25K++ which puts it solidly above Si territory.
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BachelorFrog
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Focus's traction control works as LSD.
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TonyEX
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BachelorFrog wrote:
Focus's traction control works as LSD.
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Aahh... not quite.
Read the other posts on this thread.
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superchg2
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TonyE wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
Hmm.. HOW MUCH will this thing cost? I dare say it's gonna be more than $24K. And if they use torque vectoring... well... it's gonna be EXPENSIVE.
I dare say the Civic Si will handily whip it, offer more room and cost a lot less.
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Its big brother, the Focus ST is $24,495.
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I just "built" a Focus Titanium sedan as much as possible like our Civic Si sedan. Our Si's options only are fog lights, all weather mats and NAVI.
The cost of the Focus when I selected some of those options is $25400 and I still did not get the LSD nor the satellite radio. The Focus has the smaller 2.0 liter engine and the MT5... I had to get leather, which I did not want. I personally prefer the black/red seats in the Si.
And the back seat of the Focus is tight... leg room is a full 3 inches less than the Civic.
Besides, Civic has 201bhp... MT6... LSD... there is simply no comparison in my book.
So I think the Civic Si is the much better package and cheaper than the Ford.
BTW- in the Ford, if you add the premium floor mats you have to select two tone leather seats?
So, the bottom line is.... can Ford sell a Fiesta with a motor more powerful than he Focus Titanium? I think that such a "Fiesta Titanium GT" would run a healthy $25K++ which puts it solidly above Si territory.
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Tony E, who said anything about a Titanium? I was referring to the 252 horse, 270 ft.lb., 154 m.p.h. Focus ST
which will lay waste to an Si. You can add a sunroof for about $800 if this is an issue.
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Rgist85
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superchg2 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
Hmm.. HOW MUCH will this thing cost? I dare say it's gonna be more than $24K. And if they use torque vectoring... well... it's gonna be EXPENSIVE.
I dare say the Civic Si will handily whip it, offer more room and cost a lot less.
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Its big brother, the Focus ST is $24,495.
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I just "built" a Focus Titanium sedan as much as possible like our Civic Si sedan. Our Si's options only are fog lights, all weather mats and NAVI.
The cost of the Focus when I selected some of those options is $25400 and I still did not get the LSD nor the satellite radio. The Focus has the smaller 2.0 liter engine and the MT5... I had to get leather, which I did not want. I personally prefer the black/red seats in the Si.
And the back seat of the Focus is tight... leg room is a full 3 inches less than the Civic.
Besides, Civic has 201bhp... MT6... LSD... there is simply no comparison in my book.
So I think the Civic Si is the much better package and cheaper than the Ford.
BTW- in the Ford, if you add the premium floor mats you have to select two tone leather seats?
So, the bottom line is.... can Ford sell a Fiesta with a motor more powerful than he Focus Titanium? I think that such a "Fiesta Titanium GT" would run a healthy $25K++ which puts it solidly above Si territory.
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Tony E, who said anything about a Titanium? I was referring to the 252 horse, 270 ft.lb., 154 m.p.h. Focus ST
which will lay waste to an Si. You can add a sunroof for about $800 if this is an issue.
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Exactly! A base Ford Focus ST with the sunroof and floor mats comes out to $25,479 per Ford.com...a similarly equipped Honda Civic Si is $24,949 with my only option being splash guards. I'd say the Focus ST has it all over the Civic Si in looks, performance, feature content and outright power...and you get the utility of the hatchback to boot! all for about $500 more. Honda definitely needs to add a hatchback body style to the next Civic!
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Dean Stevenson
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Rgist85 wrote:
...and you get the utility of the hatchback to boot!
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I see what you did there. Very clever.
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TonyEX
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Dean Stevenson wrote:
Rgist85 wrote:
...and you get the utility of the hatchback to boot!
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I see what you did there. Very clever.
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They are different cars.... one is only offered as coupe and sedan while the Focus is a five door hatch... so unless AHM brings in a five door Civic the comparison is moot..
And there's no way AHM would release a Fit that costs more and is more powerful than a Civic Si.. I mean, they've sort of screwed up with the ILX but I doubt they'd screw up within the Honda line proper.
As an aside... the Focus ST I built was also 26K in MSRP.. I have no clue exactly what went into it -I did delete the leather and I'm pretty sure it had Navi but no Microsoft poopoo- because I find Ford's packaging way too confusing. I guess I sort of prefer AHM's simple way of trimming car... heck, my complaints about how AHM restricts options to certain trim levels pales on how Ford mixes and matches stuff... choose this and you can't choose that but you can choose this, etc, etc...
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