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TonyEX
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OK.. so the car still has low miles.. I don't think it has 800 miles yet....
So, we're babying it. I don't think I've run it to the redline yet. Truth is that the K24 has such midrange punch that running to the redline really is not that important.
Last weekend, however, I was merging on the Southbound 405 at Euclid (in Fountain Valley).
The on ramp goes from two lanes to one lane and if you're on the "left" lane you find yourself driving into a decreasing ratio right turn opening up onto a long acceleration lane.
The on ramp is rather long with a straight run perpendicular to the freeway (going East) before finally turning south. The lanes merge right at this right turn.
So, I was on the outer lane, minding my business while this kid with a Sienna was keeping up with me, right off my right rear... maybe he was planning to pass me on the inside? Who knew, I just didn't want to find out...
So, I punched it... not too much... but sped up nicely.
Then, of course, I got to the turn.
Now, remembering my Type SH, with its ATTS, I didn't bother to slow down, I just turned the wheel and put down some more power. Still a bit tentative though.
HEY! The car did not push at all... did not understeer one bit... instead it went exactly where I pointed it at.. the apex, tightening the turn nicely and accelerating quite well.
Remember, it's a new car, I wasn't pushing it at all.
Yes, folks... can't do that without an LSD, ATTS or something that keeps the torque where it matters most.
Fun.
(Disclaimer.. don't do this with an EX).
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Farage1
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glad you're enjoying it :) i make sure to give my lsd a workout here and there lol. i just installed the takeda icebox and it sounds so nice. too nice in fact... my mpgs went down from 22-23 to 21, i just cant get enough of that sound!
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TonyEX
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Farage1 wrote:
glad you're enjoying it :) i make sure to give my lsd a workout here and there lol. i just installed the takeda icebox and it sounds so nice. too nice in fact... my mpgs went down from 22-23 to 21, i just cant get enough of that sound!
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Yes.. the VTEC lights and the mileage are exclusive of each other..
When the VTEC lights light up the MPG bar in the iMID shrinks.
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bigblue
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Yes, folks... can't do that without an LSD, ATTS or something that keeps the torque where it matters most. With respect ... how do you know the lsd was involved ? Modern cars have pretty big wheels and wide tyres, so there's lots of grip there.
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Farage1
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you can feel it. floor it into a turn and instead of understeer and wheelspin, the car grips like hell (with the shitty stock michelins trying so hard to break free) and zero understeer.
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TonyEX
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Farage1 wrote:
you can feel it. floor it into a turn and instead of understeer and wheelspin, the car grips like hell (with the shitty stock michelins trying so hard to break free) and zero understeer.
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Yes, the Prelude was amazing in that respect. ATTS really worked.
I have yet to push the Si, so that one turn was a welcome eye opener.
It's amazing when you drive a neutral FWD. It becomes a matter of pointing and shooting, no longer really worried about going wide under power.
You can almost achieve the same thing by using the old Saab Rally trick... ride the brakes lightly while giving it gas in a turn.. that makes the rear tires lose some grip and thus the back end of the car slides sideways... so the car as a whole does not understeer. But if you do that, you will wear out your brakes fast.
The LSD is the better -and faster- solution to achieving a neutral balance in the turns.
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garoto628
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Point and shoot is the right explanation. Your steering wheel precision does not change as you punch it through a turn, the car remains neutral, no understeer and full acceleration through the turn. In fact it almost feels like the steering wheel positively changes in attitude when the LSD is working, it's great. When you drive one, you just can't go back.
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RocketRon
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Tone,
Considering your Integra GSR and the RSX you drove were not equipped with LSD, now you finally know why the FWD K20 Civic Type R was so impressive on the track vs the NSX and S2000!
In case you missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncnV7A8-zKw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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TonyEX
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RocketRon wrote:
Tone,
Considering your Integra GSR and the RSX you drove were not equipped with LSD, now you finally know why the FWD K20 Civic Type R was so impressive on the track vs the NSX and S2000!
In case you missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncnV7A8-zKw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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My Prelude SH had ATTS which was actually better since it predicted not reacted.
SH-AWD is all about ATTS.
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owequitit
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TonyE wrote:
RocketRon wrote:
Tone,
Considering your Integra GSR and the RSX you drove were not equipped with LSD, now you finally know why the FWD K20 Civic Type R was so impressive on the track vs the NSX and S2000!
In case you missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncnV7A8-zKw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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My Prelude SH had ATTS which was actually better since it predicted not reacted.
SH-AWD is all about ATTS.
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Tony, ATTS needed power in order to transfer it. Since that couldn't have happened until AFTER you applied the accelerator, it was indeed reactive. However, the slightly greater yaw induced by over-speeding the outside wheel, would have offset that.
But for the complexity, cost, weight, and seamless operation, the LSD is superior IMO.
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TonyEX
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owequitit wrote:
TonyE wrote:
RocketRon wrote:
Tone,
Considering your Integra GSR and the RSX you drove were not equipped with LSD, now you finally know why the FWD K20 Civic Type R was so impressive on the track vs the NSX and S2000!
In case you missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncnV7A8-zKw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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My Prelude SH had ATTS which was actually better since it predicted not reacted.
SH-AWD is all about ATTS.
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Tony, ATTS needed power in order to transfer it. Since that couldn't have happened until AFTER you applied the accelerator, it was indeed reactive. However, the slightly greater yaw induced by over-speeding the outside wheel, would have offset that.
But for the complexity, cost, weight, and seamless operation, the LSD is superior IMO.
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I dunno...
ATTS was very smooth and acted very fast. It almost predicted when the wheel was going to spin and started its action very fast. It was never noticeable except that the car was very neutral in turns.. low or high speed, tight or loose.... it was a complete point and shoot set up all the time.
ATTS used accelerators, wheel sensors and input from the engine management system to figure what to do... it did this faster than the LSD which is limited only to the wheelspin.
ATTS knew how fast you were turning, whether you were giving it gas, whether a tire was slipping ( or both )... it was automatic torque vectoring.
The main advantage an LSD has over ATTS is cost, simplicity and power handling scaling... that's all. Perhaps weight? But it doesn't act as often nor as smoothly.
Also, ATTS was limited in its power handling.. I guess the SH could not be bumped up into a 30bhp monster because ATTS could not handle it.
OTOH, finding an LSD that handles that much power is a reasonable endeavor.
I guess that SH-AWD has bumped up all the power handling and is more sophisticated, but it's costly. However, SH-AWD is really neat.. However, it is being discontinued in lieu of a series hybrid setup powering electric motors on the other axle.
I think that eventually the seried hybrid model (whether ICE, fuel cell or batteries) with individual motors at each driven wheel will be the end result... and then all of conversations about LSD, clutches, etc... will be moot.
In the meantime, LSD, ATTS... I'm having fun. ;-D
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