civicw
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-14/honda-suffering-reputation-loss-taps-american-s-retooling.html?cmpid=yhoo
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DCR
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| “Having high expectations or pressure is what’s necessary to get us to a point where we’re performing,” he said. “We want everybody to fall over and go: There it is again. There’s that Honda we used to praise.” |
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hondadude
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This is an excellent interview with Erik Berkman. I really enjoyed reading it. He will be American Honda Motor Co's savior.
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CivicB18
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This is actually great news as many here have been waiting for the moment for Honda management to wake up and realize that they locked up those special attributes that made Honda a standout company back in the day.
As I said in a recent Accord sighting thread, the new Accord is just the first drop in the bucket as Honda will refocus and start making Hondas again. Erik certainly has his work cut out for him but he seems very confident that him and his colleagues can get that magic to resurface.
~Patrick
P.s. Erik, I recently purchased a mint super low mileage 2008 TL. Please make the next TL a modern version of the 3rd gen!
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BachelorFrog
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| Berkman has helped to fix it midstream. The model’s mid- cycle refresh, due in about three months, was moved up by about a year. Among the improvements will be better interior materials, he said. |
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Rgist85
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BachelorFrog wrote:
| Berkman has helped to fix it midstream. The model’s mid- cycle refresh, due in about three months, was moved up by about a year. Among the improvements will be better interior materials, he said. |
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Sounds like Honda was going to do a facelift for MY2014 but moved it up to MY2013...it all sounds fishy to me regardless, doesn't Honda usually update cars on a 4 (facelift) and 6 (Redesign) basis? If that were the case the facelifted Civic would have come out in My2015, sometime in 2014, not MY2014 in 2013.
"“You’re going to find that Accord is a very well-balanced product that is the best overall product in everything, whether we’re talking about interior packaging, content of the vehicle, the fuel economy of the vehicle,” he said. It “will be one of the most feature-rich vehicles we’ve ever made,” he said, without elaborating."
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ClementZ
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"...Berkman has to find a way to add content and upgrade interiors within a company that controls spending so tightly it made money even through the recession, natural disasters and exchange rate pain. Honda is the only major automaker to have never had an annual loss. "
Damn.
That's downright impressive.
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The Legend
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I can't believe the 2004-2008 Acura TL was considered "polarizing". It sure looked like a winner to me when they roamed the streets in 2004.
The pre MMC 4th generation TL on the other hand was just flat out fugly..... ridiculously long front/rear overhangs, punya sized wheels and huge wheel gap killed it.
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sadlerau
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The Legend wrote:
The pre MMC 4th generation TL on the other hand was just flat out fugly..... ridiculously long front/rear overhangs, punya sized wheels and huge wheel gap killed it.
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You're being too kind by far! :)
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HONDA AFVM
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ONE WORD PEOPLE................
"INSIDER"
He is now leading the pack..........He has a team of very 80's90's thinking people that want to bring the spark to Honda........this is what I have been talking about for the past 2 years about the "insiders" wanting to change Honda........
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Nick GravesX
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
ONE WORD PEOPLE................
"INSIDER"
He is now leading the pack..........He has a team of very 80's90's thinking people that want to bring the spark to Honda........this is what I have been talking about for the past 2 years about the "insiders" wanting to change Honda........
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Oh, riiiiggght!
Well, once one gets to a suitable position, they can usually surround themselves with right-minded colleagues.
It might take a while, but at least FINALLY the company is moving away from its suicide bash.
I mean, fair play to the conservatives who have kept the company stable to date (I think the real economic crisis has yet to manifest, so they may have been too quick off the mark, rather than actually wrong but at least it helped the business survive earthquakes and Tsunamis!) but the products need to get back on track fast too.
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DCR
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It would stand to reason that there would be people within the company who wish to inject some life back into the brand...it isn't like they took a fire hose to the place and cleaned out every employee with some history.
I am interested in what happened to Dave Marek. He was a large player in the 8th Gen Si, and smashed it out of the park. Since then...he isn't winning the war inside Honda. Why not? Anyone able to connect the dots on the timing of these things?
http://wardsauto.com/ar/honda_designer_believes
Marek initially was involved with the redesign of the Pilot, but following a staffing reorganization was taken off the project. “And then (the new model) came out,” he laughs, hinting some stylistic tweaks might be happening sooner than later.
Honda designers have carte blanche when it comes to challenging executives’ opinions, with the success of the CR-V supporting their case, Marek says.
Despite getting a drubbing for its design when it launched in 2006, the current CUV has become the best-selling utility vehicle in the U.S., surpassing the Ford Explorer last year by delivering 219,160 units, Ward’s data shows.
That kind of success makes it easier for designers to be heard, Marek says. “I can stand up at a board of directors meeting and say, ‘Are you people stupid?’ And nobody goes, ‘Get him out of here.’ They’ll say, ‘What are we doing wrong?’
“We researched the subject; we built the car. You should trust us,” Marek says he tells American Honda Motor Co. Inc. officials when questioned on styling decisions. “You have to earn their trust, and then you have to prove that trust by making a few (hit cars).” |
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typer_801
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The old saying, 'proof is in the pudding'. We'll have to wait and see if Erik's chatter actually translates into products that remind us of the glory days. Color me skeptical until then....
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JeffX
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Rgist85 wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
| Berkman has helped to fix it midstream. The model’s mid- cycle refresh, due in about three months, was moved up by about a year. Among the improvements will be better interior materials, he said. |
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Sounds like Honda was going to do a facelift for MY2014 but moved it up to MY2013...it all sounds fishy to me regardless, doesn't Honda usually update cars on a 4 (facelift) and 6 (Redesign) basis? If that were the case the facelifted Civic would have come out in My2015, sometime in 2014, not MY2014 in 2013.
"“You’re going to find that Accord is a very well-balanced product that is the best overall product in everything, whether we’re talking about interior packaging, content of the vehicle, the fuel economy of the vehicle,” he said. It “will be one of the most feature-rich vehicles we’ve ever made,” he said, without elaborating."
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Huh? Where has everybody been? We posted this news last fall. It was confirmed not too long afterward. I thought everybody was aware of this - hell, even Ito has referenced it several times
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Rgist85
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Jeff wrote:
Rgist85 wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
| Berkman has helped to fix it midstream. The model’s mid- cycle refresh, due in about three months, was moved up by about a year. Among the improvements will be better interior materials, he said. |
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Sounds like Honda was going to do a facelift for MY2014 but moved it up to MY2013...it all sounds fishy to me regardless, doesn't Honda usually update cars on a 4 (facelift) and 6 (Redesign) basis? If that were the case the facelifted Civic would have come out in My2015, sometime in 2014, not MY2014 in 2013.
"“You’re going to find that Accord is a very well-balanced product that is the best overall product in everything, whether we’re talking about interior packaging, content of the vehicle, the fuel economy of the vehicle,” he said. It “will be one of the most feature-rich vehicles we’ve ever made,” he said, without elaborating."
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Huh? Where has everybody been? We posted this news last fall. It was confirmed not too long afterward. I thought everybody was aware of this - hell, even Ito has referenced it several times
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I'm aware of the facelift being pushed up...my point was that Honda execs keep saying they were going to facelift the car next year, when Honda usually follows a 3-2 strategy for their cars. So I was under the impression that under normal circumstances the Civic would stay the same for three model years and get a facelift during the 4th and 5th years. But they make it seem as if the original Civic facelift would have been after just two years anyway, not the typical three they usually keep the car the same. Seems kinda fishy to me. Perhaps Honda was only going to keep this generation around for four years as opposed to 5 (or 6 like the 8th)
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Waldo
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typer_801 wrote:
The old saying, 'proof is in the pudding'. We'll have to wait and see if Erik's chatter actually translates into products that remind us of the glory days. Color me skeptical until then....
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I'm sure Berkman's comments are not "chatter". His history indicates that he is very able to change Honda's course back. The big question is whether or not he is able to get permission to spend the money. The bean (rice?) counters outrank him. Will he be able to convince them that it is okay again to charge more for a Honda than an Altima, Sonata, or Camry?
The Hondas of old always cost a little more than the competition. Reputation was the leveling currency. In 1988 I was shopping new cars, and liked the looks of the Accord. I was never able to test drive the LXi model I wanted because my local dealer only kept one demo, an LX. If I wanted the sportier model, I would have to put $500 down, and wait 4-6 weeks. All Accords were on back order. I was lucky because my local dealer was not a gouger and I could buy it for MSRP. Many dealers were "packing" the price with $500 Scotchguard, $400 mud flaps, and another $1500 "market adjustment". I could have gone across the street and bought the top of the line Camry for several hundred dollars under MSRP, and had a choice of colors off the lot. Like over 300,000 other people, I chose to put up the $500, and wait and wait and wait . . . :-)
I sold my LXi six years later and bought a 1994 Accord EX. By that time the dealers usually had a few LXs on the lot, and maybe an EX or two. Price gouging days were over.
Honda's problem today is the question: will they ever again be able to charge a little more for a better car? The market has changed, and many (most?) buyers today have not experienced the poorly built, unreliable, sloppy driving crap that was sold to us by American and some European manufacturers.
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JeffX
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Rgist85 wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Rgist85 wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
| Berkman has helped to fix it midstream. The model’s mid- cycle refresh, due in about three months, was moved up by about a year. Among the improvements will be better interior materials, he said. |
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Sounds like Honda was going to do a facelift for MY2014 but moved it up to MY2013...it all sounds fishy to me regardless, doesn't Honda usually update cars on a 4 (facelift) and 6 (Redesign) basis? If that were the case the facelifted Civic would have come out in My2015, sometime in 2014, not MY2014 in 2013.
"“You’re going to find that Accord is a very well-balanced product that is the best overall product in everything, whether we’re talking about interior packaging, content of the vehicle, the fuel economy of the vehicle,” he said. It “will be one of the most feature-rich vehicles we’ve ever made,” he said, without elaborating."
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Huh? Where has everybody been? We posted this news last fall. It was confirmed not too long afterward. I thought everybody was aware of this - hell, even Ito has referenced it several times
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I'm aware of the facelift being pushed up...my point was that Honda execs keep saying they were going to facelift the car next year, when Honda usually follows a 3-2 strategy for their cars. So I was under the impression that under normal circumstances the Civic would stay the same for three model years and get a facelift during the 4th and 5th years. But they make it seem as if the original Civic facelift would have been after just two years anyway, not the typical three they usually keep the car the same. Seems kinda fishy to me. Perhaps Honda was only going to keep this generation around for four years as opposed to 5 (or 6 like the 8th)
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ok, i misread you. I have wondered a few times if Honda decided from the outset that this 9th gen Civic was a "throwaway" generation and it was only going to go for 4 years anyhow. Remember it was delayed a model year, so maybe the idea was to just get it out, run it for 4 model years and focus on the 10th gen being something truly special. My reasoning is that Ito took over in the middle or even late in the development cycle for this model, and he decided he wanted something much different but it was too late and too costly to completely redo it, so they focused on cost cutting mostly and putting more energy into the 10th gen Civic.
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JeffX
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I have known Erik for a long time - he's a fan of TOV as well and he has been super cool to us over the years. He is an awesome guy - I consider him one of "our kind". Just loves Honda and performance and he's one of those guys that just "gets it"
Reading that article was illuminating to me, because I had no idea that half of whatever idiotic focus group they polled hated the 2004 TL. That is just completely absurd and tells me that those focus groups are absolutely worthless, or they simply didn't vet out the participants AT ALL. From the moment I saw the car, I KNEW it was going to be a hit, just like I thought Acura was crazy for initially projecting TSX sales of only 15000 units per year. They tripled that.
Anyhow, they just need to ratchet down the influence of the focus groups. They are clearly bringing zero value to the decision making process and more often than not, they seem to have steered Honda and Acura in the WRONG direction.
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JeffX
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Also, here's what I wrote about Berkman taking the role back in 2009 http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=828413
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Double J
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It sounds like Mr. Berkman actually has the guts to stand up and perhaps convince powers above to give NA an affordable sports car or maybe even a Type R. I don't know why there is a seemingly arrogant attitude to keeping those models in Japan.
Regarding the focus groups it almost seems to me that they are just trying to sabotage Honda. Call me crazy. I will find it interesting to see how many Gen Y customers buy the ILX vs the 86 twins in the first year of sales.
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owequitit
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typer_801 wrote:
The old saying, 'proof is in the pudding'. We'll have to wait and see if Erik's chatter actually translates into products that remind us of the glory days. Color me skeptical until then....
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Personally, I am VERY optimisitic about the new Accord. The more I see the more my optimism actually increases... Can't say that has happened since the 2006 Civic.
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sa3eedi
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Jeff wrote:
Reading that article was illuminating to me, because I had no idea that half of whatever idiotic focus group they polled hated the 2004 TL. That is just completely absurd and tells me that those focus groups are absolutely worthless, or they simply didn't vet out the participants AT ALL. From the moment I saw the car, I KNEW it was going to be a hit, just like I thought Acura was crazy for initially projecting TSX sales of only 15000 units per year.
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Seriously, I have never heard anyone have anything bad to say about that TL design-wise. Even my brother who works for GM thinks that it still looks great. Only criticism I ever heard was from a friend of mine who thought that it looked too much like a Pontiac, and went for the '04 TSX instead. I still remember reading reviews from that period refering to it as Alfa-esque.
That's good to hear about Erik. Maybe there is hope yet for better things to come from Honda.
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according2kev
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sa3eedi wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Reading that article was illuminating to me, because I had no idea that half of whatever idiotic focus group they polled hated the 2004 TL. That is just completely absurd and tells me that those focus groups are absolutely worthless, or they simply didn't vet out the participants AT ALL. From the moment I saw the car, I KNEW it was going to be a hit, just like I thought Acura was crazy for initially projecting TSX sales of only 15000 units per year.
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Seriously, I have never heard anyone have anything bad to say about that TL design-wise. Even my brother who works for GM thinks that it still looks great. Only criticism I ever heard was from a friend of mine who thought that it looked too much like a Pontiac, and went for the '04 TSX instead. I still remember reading reviews from that period refering to it as Alfa-esque.
That's good to hear about Erik. Maybe there is hope yet for better things to come from Honda.
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I really liked the '04 TL the first time I saw it and still do. I didn't like the cut out character line that runs along the side but it quickly grew on me. Other than that, I don't think I ever heard a negative comment about the styling of that car either.
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NSXforever
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The TL was not conservative from a traditionally very conservative brand that is why internally many didn't like it. Remember it took 6 months to decide if the 2G TL should have dual exhausts!! Very very conservative. The 3G TL is IMO with the Legend their best sedans by far.
Good to see the positive talk but lets see the product. Less talk more do :)
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CivicB18
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Something tells me that within the next 5 years Acura will become a tier 1 brand or have a similar position as Audi especially since Mr. Berkman has substantial influence and power. They won't have a "full line" but their products will be drastically improved and have consistent upgrades to drivetrains, available features and performance.
~Patrick
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superchg2
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CivicB18 wrote:
Something tells me that within the next 5 years Acura will become a tier 1 brand or have a similar position as Audi especially since Mr. Berkman has substantial influence and power. They won't have a "full line" but their products will be drastically improved and have consistent upgrades to drivetrains, available features and performance.
~Patrick
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I wonder what Mr. Berkman's opinion is of the new entry luxury ILX?
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A77
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have never heard anything but praise for the 04 TL - any focus group thinking otherwise must have been blind. The most "right" design in the last ten years. Its replacement, which must also have been focus grouped....initially hideous, now acceptable following MMC. What does that say for focus groups?
I reckoned the last gen CRV looked pretty weird at first and was quite polarizing. Dramatically improved at MMC too, which showed in its sales. New RDX is right on the button which is a good sign too. Here's hoping with the Accord. Even if all they have done is shrunk the MDX and refined its details.
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Atomic Frog
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Garbage in, garbage out. Focus groups aren't necessarily worthless, but it does depend on how you selected the members of the group.
In 2004, if you were wondering how to turn the average Buick buyer to your brand, then sure, you may have gotten the answers. But did you really want your core customers to have the same taste & values as Buick ... ;-)
Sometimes, maybe Honda forgot that most Honda buyers purchased their vehicle because it was a Honda, not because it was like, or aspired to be, some other brand image.
Maybe they should make TOV the focus group. Hands up those of you who thought the "Batmobile" concept was fugly? And they turned that styling language into that fantastic selling TL ;-)
Or those other gems, the Crosstour, the ZDX. Who here didn't see those coming?
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notyper
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+1 Atomic Frog.
I was solicited for a bunch of paid marketing studies after I bought my S2000 back in MY00. Some they didn't choose to use me and sent me home with a $100 bill, sometimes I got to participate in a focus group. In the latter, the questions were always very leading and you were usually limited to a selection of multiple choice answers. Now, I do understand that if you don't limit answers it can be very difficult to interpret the results, but that is a major problem with focus groups.
IMO, I think you find a guy or group of designers who has a good vision and creates good designs and then you stick with them. Look, how many of us would buy one of Neal's creations if Honda made it? I think a lot more than would buy what they're putting out. Find guys like that and give them jobs. It isn't that hard IMO.
SC
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Jesse
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Rather than focus groups, why not rely on those who are loyal to the brand but are not blind or are not puppets? I am thinking of TOV admins and veterans like Jeff, Neal, TonyE, AFVM, etc. Or Honda can simply browse the forums here - I am pretty sure they can differentiate rubbish and good posts.
Atomic Frog wrote:
Maybe they should make TOV the focus group. Hands up those of you who thought the "Batmobile" concept was fugly? And they turned that styling language into that fantastic selling TL ;-)
Or those other gems, the Crosstour, the ZDX. Who here didn't see those coming?
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I am probably one of the few who love the Acura ZDX. It's simply a work of art (except for the current plenum it is wearing methinks) - well for me that is. I know it has many compromises but then it is a luxury vehicle and in the world of luxury, art is equally important as design, at times even supersedes design.
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