[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
Honda HR-V Compact SUV to Join All-New 2015 Fit as Honda Expands Small Car Lineup
More.......................
Some thoughts, photos, and notes on the 2015 Acura TLX from the NYIAS show floor
More.......................
2015 Acura TLX Unveiled at the 2014 New York International Auto Show
More.......................
Video: TOV member catches a TLX prototype on dashcam!
More.......................
All New 2015 Honda Fit Designed to Top the Subcompact Class
More.......................
Honda set to show interesting new Concept at Beijing International Automotive Exhibition
More.......................
'HR-V' name confirmed for upcoming Fit-based 'urban sport utility'
More.......................
American Honda Announces Sales Results for March 2014
More.......................
Today's Reading Links --> Re: USA Today article about Acura
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Honda set for a rocky road ahead in Europe
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: BTCC at Donington Park
Join Discussion......
MDX --> Re: 2015 MDX
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: TLX delayed till late summer.. Instead of May
Join Discussion......
HondaMobilia --> Re: Tenshodo RA273 Engine
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: F1 - 2014 Chinese Grand Prix
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: If there was a TLX Wagon
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Acura NDX vs Lexus NX
Join Discussion......
RDX --> Re: 2016 RDX Upgrade Predictions
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Place your bets-TLX. Fit, HR-V sales
Join Discussion......
MDX --> Re: 2014 MDX Reviews
Join Discussion......
Classifieds: Buy & Sell --> FS: 09CivicSI: hasport, vibrant exhaust, AEM boost, A/F Uego, Prosport, IM cover, sway bar
Join Discussion......
Classifieds: Buy & Sell --> FS: 09CivicSI: hasport, vibrant exhaust, AEM boost, A/F Uego, Prosport, IM cover, sway bar
Join Discussion......
Strictly Technical --> Re: 6G Accord Transmission
Join Discussion......
TOV Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
TOV Dyno Test: 2014 Accord Hybrid
Read Article....................
TOV Video: 2015 Acura TLX design Overview by Jared Hall
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery: 2014 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery: 2015 Civic Type R Prototype
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1]
Author
  Post New Thread
CB77
Profile for CB77
Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-07-2012 14:58
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

Thanks to 330R for the updated version of the “Impossible Dream” video. At first, I thought it was just the original one, but then I saw that the HondaJet had replaced the hot air balloon.

While watching this video still gives me goosebumps, I came to the sad realization that all the soul-stirring models in the video, are of the increasingly-distant past. With the video’s products of the future (Asimo, the FCX Clarity hydrogen-powered car and the HondaJet) being still pretty far in the future, or out of my reach, financially. I think this fact is what is troubling many of the participants at this site.

Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-07-2012 15:51
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CB77 wrote:
I came to the sad realization that all the soul-stirring models in the video, are of the increasingly-distant past. With the video’s products of the future (Asimo, the FCX Clarity hydrogen-powered car and the HondaJet) being still pretty far in the future, or out of my reach, financially. I think this fact is what is troubling many of the participants at this site.

CB77, I see what you're saying, but when I tried to define "soul-stirring" within my own head, it becomes difficult. How do you define it, and are there any reasonably-priced cars that achieve it?

Do you think the FR-S would be considered soul-stirring? While it sounds like it's fun to drive, I'm not entirely sure about it. Will it achieve the same fun as the Honda cars in that video?

I own a couple of the old models. The "baby-NSX" Prelude with 4WS. To be honest there's not much special about the drive, apart from parallel parking. And I've got a 90 CRX Si. Okay that one I admit, on a warm sunny day (not wet) while driving for fun (not errands) on a twisty road (not highways), it is a lot of damn fun. Soul-stirring, even. But the non-VTEC D16 engine isn't special. The 5MT (apart from the fact that Honda's are better than every other company) is not special. So I guess what it comes down to is the light weight and non-power-steering. Oh yeah, I guess the old cars had double-wishbones, too.

Cars simply can't get away with non-power-steering anymore (and now have even moved on from hydraulic to the lesser-feeling EPS). And really they can't seem to touch that lightness anymore. Even "light" (2600lbs) can't come close to the level of enjoyment of CRX-light, though. And while a wishbone suspension is still nicer (TSX), is it significantly noticeably better than struts (ILX/Si) in modern applications? It looks like "soul-stirring" these days might be more down to the engine.

Would a new "Beat" be soul-stirring? Tiny, mid-engine. Or is it too powerless? Can a hybrid SH-AWD NSX be soul-stirring? Or is it too heavy and complex? Can a Civic or Accord ever be? A new FWD Prelude?

I do find my brother's 8th Si sedan pretty stirring, though, when the roads get fun. It's got the HFP suspension, 18" wheels and a short-shifter... that thing has grip for miles, tons of power, and the engine and shifter are smooth as butter. Also the S2000 was quite obviously soul-stirring, but an anomaly from typical models.

How about from other brands? I'm not sure that soul-stirring is even a part of the recipe of today's cars, or if it even can be - at least resembling the way it used to. What do you think?
Nino
Profile for Nino
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-07-2012 16:24
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Models you are mentioning only glimpse at what was Honda.
Try 90-91 CRX with B16 in it, your 'soul' will like that. Try Integra Type R, you'll like that as well. S2000, NSX as well.

Honda only had limited availability of those "REAL" deal cars, but even lesser models shared some of that DNA.

Double wishbone is where it is, this stuff is supercar territory and Honda let the masses sample some of that. Did you ever wonder why RSX never did anything for Real Time racing? It was not the engine...

The trick here was that none of these cars had to be fastest or best at anything, but they provided such balance of all things that resulting car was amazing, yet performance numbers would never indicate that.

Best example of this is Integra type R, subjectively THE best front wheel drive car to ever grace the road. O yes, soul-stirring that was...

So in the end, Toyota and Subaru should be congratulated and while their car can't hold a candle to experience of driving Integra type R that is not their fault, regulations are what is to blame here, even the fact that they manufactured these cars in today's environment is amazing in it self.

To conclude, soul-stirring is reserved for rich people now, or ones that know how to work on cars so they can build one...
CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-07-2012 18:34
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Potenza wrote:
CB77 wrote:
I came to the sad realization that all the soul-stirring models in the video, are of the increasingly-distant past. With the video’s products of the future (Asimo, the FCX Clarity hydrogen-powered car and the HondaJet) being still pretty far in the future, or out of my reach, financially. I think this fact is what is troubling many of the participants at this site.

CB77, I see what you're saying, but when I tried to define "soul-stirring" within my own head, it becomes difficult. How do you define it, and are there any reasonably-priced cars that achieve it?

Do you think the FR-S would be considered soul-stirring? While it sounds like it's fun to drive, I'm not entirely sure about it. Will it achieve the same fun as the Honda cars in that video?



Potenza, you bring up many good points. Perhaps my use of the term soul-stirring was a little over the top…although I do get a catch in my throat when I see our hero of the video going up through the gears in the ‘60s-era F1 car (an RA272?).

I guess my 40-year background in the M/C division of American Honda tends to slant my interest and nostalgia toward the M/C side of the ledger. By soul-stirring, I don’t just mean fun-to-drive, or high performance. Instead I mean a model from Honda that is so groundbreaking, that it shakes-up the existing market, and our beliefs about how things have to be. Fun-to-drive or fun-to-ride certainly need to be a part of that package...and high-performance often accompanies them.

The first model in the video, a 1969 Z50 Mini-Bike fits that bill, even with its only 2hp engine. It turned the American Off-road M/C industry on its ear, just as the second model in the video, a 1959 C100 step-thru 50cc road bike did for the On-road M/C industry. Both of those models gave Honda Motor the sales, status, and income to go on to the greater things we saw from them the next 50 years. If either of those models would have failed, the Honda we know would not exist today...probably no Honda would still exist. I guess that is the reason that I can find a diminutive 50cc model from Honda “soul-stirring”…because I understand how brash a move it was on Honda’s part to create such models…all-the-while being laughed at by the rest of the industry.

Perhaps it is not reasonable to expect Honda to have maintained the astonishing lead over all the competition that it enjoyed in these early days, both in the M/C and Auto markets. We forced all the competition to get better…and they all did, or perished.

The new $4099 CBR250R, and its brother, the $4499 CRF250L may be glimmers of hope from us (Honda) in the M/C lineup…as far as scratching our way back to impressive performing, affordable motorcycles.

Using the pause button frequently, I was able to identify the following list of Honda products in the video. Does anyone have any corrections or see something that I missed?

#1. 1969 Z50 Mini-Bike
#2. 1959 C100 Motorbike
#3. TRX400EX All Terrain Vehicle
#4. S600 (800?) Sports car
#5. GL1800 Goldwing Motorcycle
#6. 1959 RC142 GP Motorcycle (used at Honda’s early attempts at the Isle of Mann)
#7. S2000 Sports car
#8. NSX Sports car
#9. VFR1200 Motorcycle
#10. RA272 F1 car (gave Honda its first F1 win)
#11. Twin 250hp Honda outboards
#12. CR-Z
#13. Clarity (Hydrogen fuel-cell car)
#14. Asimo (Humanoid robot)
#15. 700cc Integra scooter
#16. Honda Home Energy Station

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-07-2012 21:32
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CB77 wrote:
Potenza wrote:
CB77 wrote:
I came to the sad realization that all the soul-stirring models in the video, are of the increasingly-distant past. With the video’s products of the future (Asimo, the FCX Clarity hydrogen-powered car and the HondaJet) being still pretty far in the future, or out of my reach, financially. I think this fact is what is troubling many of the participants at this site.

CB77, I see what you're saying, but when I tried to define "soul-stirring" within my own head, it becomes difficult. How do you define it, and are there any reasonably-priced cars that achieve it?

Do you think the FR-S would be considered soul-stirring? While it sounds like it's fun to drive, I'm not entirely sure about it. Will it achieve the same fun as the Honda cars in that video?



Potenza, you bring up many good points. Perhaps my use of the term soul-stirring was a little over the top…although I do get a catch in my throat when I see our hero of the video going up through the gears in the ‘60s-era F1 car (an RA272?).

I guess my 40-year background in the M/C division of American Honda tends to slant my interest and nostalgia toward the M/C side of the ledger. By soul-stirring, I don’t just mean fun-to-drive, or high performance. Instead I mean a model from Honda that is so groundbreaking, that it shakes-up the existing market, and our beliefs about how things have to be. Fun-to-drive or fun-to-ride certainly need to be a part of that package...and high-performance often accompanies them.

The first model in the video, a 1969 Z50 Mini-Bike fits that bill, even with its only 2hp engine. It turned the American Off-road M/C industry on its ear, just as the second model in the video, a 1959 C100 step-thru 50cc road bike did for the On-road M/C industry. Both of those models gave Honda Motor the sales, status, and income to go on to the greater things we saw from them the next 50 years. If either of those models would have failed, the Honda we know would not exist today...probably no Honda would still exist. I guess that is the reason that I can find a diminutive 50cc model from Honda “soul-stirring”…because I understand how brash a move it was on Honda’s part to create such models…all-the-while being laughed at by the rest of the industry.

Perhaps it is not reasonable to expect Honda to have maintained the astonishing lead over all the competition that it enjoyed in these early days, both in the M/C and Auto markets. We forced all the competition to get better…and they all did, or perished.

The new $4099 CBR250R, and its brother, the $4499 CRF250L may be glimmers of hope from us (Honda) in the M/C lineup…as far as scratching our way back to impressive performing, affordable motorcycles.

Using the pause button frequently, I was able to identify the following list of Honda products in the video. Does anyone have any corrections or see something that I missed?

#1. 1969 Z50 Mini-Bike
#2. 1959 C100 Motorbike
#3. TRX400EX All Terrain Vehicle
#4. S600 (800?) Sports car
#5. GL1800 Goldwing Motorcycle
#6. 1959 RC142 GP Motorcycle (used at Honda’s early attempts at the Isle of Mann)
#7. S2000 Sports car
#8. NSX Sports car
#9. VFR1200 Motorcycle
#10. RA272 F1 car (gave Honda its first F1 win)
#11. Twin 250hp Honda outboards
#12. CR-Z
#13. Clarity (Hydrogen fuel-cell car)
#14. Asimo (Humanoid robot)
#15. 700cc Integra scooter
#16. Honda Home Energy Station




At the very end you see the solar panels on the roof. Now, even though they don't show the label (yes, I did catch the Home Energy Station) I'd figure those are Honda Soltec panels.

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=6724-en


And.. amazingly, you forgot the Honda Jet and new NSX (that's what he drives on the snow, right?)... between #11 and #12
Chocs
Profile for Chocs
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-07-2012 22:04
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyE wrote:
And.. amazingly, you forgot the Honda Jet and new NSX (that's what he drives on the snow, right?)... between #11 and #12

... Right after the Hondajet? I think that's the CR-Z with DRL :)
CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-08-2012 10:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

TonyE,

Yeah you are right...the HondaJet was on my handwritten list of models that I made as I watched the video, but I failed to transfer it to my post...this may have been Freudian, due to my ambiviance about the HondaJet.

I'm not sure about the NSXII, I thought it might have been one, but I doubt if it existed yet when this video was shot. I think Chocs may be right about it being a CR-Z. Good catch on the solar panels, if they weren't actually a Honda product, I'm sure they were meant to be seen as a Honda product, for the purposes of this video.

CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-08-2012 10:20
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

I meant Ambivilance...
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-08-2012 11:06
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CB77 wrote:
Potenza, you bring up many good points. Perhaps my use of the term soul-stirring was a little over the top…although I do get a catch in my throat when I see our hero of the video going up through the gears in the ‘60s-era F1 car (an RA272?).


The new $4099 CBR250R, and its brother, the $4499 CRF250L may be glimmers of hope from us (Honda) in the M/C lineup…as far as scratching our way back to impressive performing, affordable motorcycles.



#4. S600 (800?) Sports car

I don't have a problem with the term "soul-stirring," because I do get a sense of what you mean. (And share the same reaction from seeing some of the vehicles in that video.) It's just hard to put a finger on the defining attributes. And whether those attributes are easily or possibly attainable anymore on the same level.


I think maybe both the automotive and motorcycle divisions need to take another look at the lower end of the market again, which was once Honda's forte - at least with cars (not sure about bikes). I would like to see the CBR125 and other lower-end motorcycles offered, and on the car side, the Brio. I think this back-to-basics approach would make the products accessible to more buyers. And then preferably a Brio Si and Fit Si, to make enthusiast-oriented cars more accessible as well. Maybe now I'm just being crazy.


In the video, I think that is an S500. The 800 doesn't have round taillights, so it's not that. And the 600 has a more mesh-like front grille than the simple horizontal bars used on the 500/800. Considering the '63 S500 was the first Honda car (the '63 T360 being a "truck"), it makes sense. They switched over to the S600 in '64.
CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-08-2012 13:27
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the S600...I knew for sure the S800 did not have round taillights, because I got to drive one for a while at one of the dealerships where I worked. It probably is an S500...I guess with the chain final drive, right?

Chocs
Profile for Chocs
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-08-2012 15:52
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
According to the makings of this ad, it is the S500.


0:23
CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Honda's "Impossible Dream" (updated)    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2012 10:09
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

I talked to one of my friends in AHM's Motorcycle Press department about this video yesterday. He says the some of the new footage (in version 2) was shot in the San Fransisco area, he was along on the film crew...mainly involved in shooting the VFR1200 footage. Said it took literally all of one day to get the 4 seconds of VFR1200 footage that was used in the video. "A mere farthing from every policyholder's pocket."



 
Thread Page - [1]
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2014 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy