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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1

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chinofer
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Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 01:39
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My heart has just been tossed left and right gaaaaaaaahh

Here. You may skip to the drama at the final laps @ 2:24:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gQjNK3xwwo

YAMAMOTO-DESU-YAMAMOTO! IIIIIIIIIIIII-Honda!

Ha ha ha



Last edited by JeffX on 05-08-2012 08:34
BachelorFrog
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 02:19
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Thanks for the link.

Stupid Toyota. So mad!
Chocs
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 02:54
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You gotta give Lexus credit... Okayama was the HSV's element (curvy technical course). I think what shone through in the end was a difference in experience.

By the way, RAYBRIG also took number 2 in Fuji Rd2, with a 30kg handicap. Epson HSV was the one that took pole position that race.

High speed circuits like Fuji was the HSV's Achilles' heel. 2nd with 30kg is no small feat... in comparison the GTR that took third had 16kg and was 10 seconds behind.

I believe this also makes Raybrig first in the overall rankings at the moment? If they win this year, hopefully everyone complains (again) and forces Honda to make production versions!

HondaJet
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 02:59
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thanks for the link. enjoyed the race.
Double J
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 19:11
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Thanks for the link. I wonder what happened to the GT-300 CRZ that was supposed to race this year?
K25
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 20:07
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Chocs wrote:
You gotta give Lexus credit... Okayama was the HSV's element (curvy technical course). I think what shone through in the end was a difference in experience.

By the way, RAYBRIG also took number 2 in Fuji Rd2, with a 30kg handicap. Epson HSV was the one that took pole position that race.

High speed circuits like Fuji was the HSV's Achilles' heel. 2nd with 30kg is no small feat... in comparison the GTR that took third had 16kg and was 10 seconds behind.

I believe this also makes Raybrig first in the overall rankings at the moment? If they win this year, hopefully everyone complains (again) and forces Honda to make production versions!



I don't know if it was setup related or what but the HSV's were still struggling a lot for straight-line speed at Fuji (I saw the race).

Anyway, if there's a race where you can't draw any conclusions regarding car performance, that was Fuji. It was a chaotic race with track conditions changing all the time (intermittent rain), with safety-cars and several drivethrough penalties. Basically it was a race decided by strategy. Raybrig #100 did quite well to get 2nd with a clean race and a good strategy. The same can't be said about Weider #18 for instance as they made several extra pitstops including a drivethrough penalty.

The Epson HSV took pole because it was a wet qualy and it's tires (Dunlop) are very good in the wet (they are the only Dunlop team in GT500). Dunlop also got pole in the GT300 class (also wet).

So I cannot say (for now) the HSV-010 has finally mastered Fuji (I was hoping for a dry race), but I was quite pleased with a 2nd place in the conditions. What I can say though is the HSV is really dreadful in the wet on slicks compared with the SC430 and the GTR. At the end with a few laps remaining it started raining slightly and after the leader Calsonic GTR decided to pit for wets the Raybrig HSV was promoted to 1st and could've won the race if only it could mantain a decent pace as they had a big gap (10-20sec. I don't remember exactly) to the Denso SC running in 2nd. Instead, it started losing seconds a lap and in 7 laps or so, the SC easily caught them and pulled away. It was similar with the other HSV's losing several seconds a lap to GTR or SC430 even with the same tire brand. The HSV was simply undriveable, it looked like it was on ice. They couldn't get on the throttle, the car would slide all over the place. I think the Honda engine is very peaky/lacks driveability (it looks so to me), I wonder if this is the reason?

Even on wets, I don't remember a HSV-010 ever being competitive in the wet exept for the Epson Nakajima Racing (Dunlop).
K25
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 20:14
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BachelorFrog wrote:
Thanks for the link.

Stupid Toyota. So mad!


Are you mad at Toyota? What did they do wrong this time? Why are Toyota stupid? Are they stupid for picking the best drivers?

Double J, the CRZ was supposed to race this year... starting at SUGO (round 4).

sadlerau
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 20:35
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Well put K25.

As for Honda race motors, it has always been the case that they are peaky beasts. But they sound oh so sweet! :)
DrWhiner
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 23:06
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I wonder where the V8 in the HSV come from? any guess? HPD?
P54
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 23:25
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DrWhiner wrote:
I wonder where the V8 in the HSV come from? any guess? HPD?



" As for the engine, we adopted the HR10EG, which takes the 3.4-liter V8 engine for Formula Nippon and optimizes it for Super GT."

http://world.honda.com/HSV-010_GT/
sadlerau
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-08-2012 23:28
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DrWhiner wrote:
I wonder where the V8 in the HSV come from? any guess? HPD?



I would imagine the basic engine would be HPD, it would have some "updates" done locally in Japan [as is normal in racing circles].
P54
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 00:01
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sadlerau wrote:
Well put K25.

As for Honda race motors, it has always been the case that they are peaky beasts. But they sound oh so sweet! :)



If you look at the video when the HSV is overtaking the Lexus you can see the HSV pulls away accelerating out of corners. Not a sign for a peaky motor. Many years ago (70's) at the European Endurance racing Honda RCB1000 did the same, pulling away from the other bikes exiting the curves. Honda totally dominated the races for a few years till rule changes restricted Honda's technological leadership.
HondaJet
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 00:03
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One should be smart enough to discern a CLEAN PASS and a DIRTY PASS... Lexus clearly made a dirty one.
sadlerau
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 04:25
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HondaJet wrote:
One should be smart enough to discern a CLEAN PASS and a DIRTY PASS... Lexus clearly made a dirty one.


I beg to differ. That was some great racing over the last couple of laps, and each pass was as good as it gets. The young HSV driver needs to file what happened away in the grey matter, and learn from it, without dwelling on it too long [I believe he was very upset after the race]. He probably carried a little too much speed going into that corner, which meant he couldn't make the apex, leaving just enough room for the Lexus driver to "dive bomb" in there. The resultant touching is just racing.

It's racing like that that brings the crowds in to watch.

The competitiveness of the racing has improved immensely over the past few years, and I wish that Western countries got the TV feed for these races! Preferably with Jonathon Green doing the english commentary :)
BachelorFrog
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 05:41
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K25 wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
Thanks for the link.

Stupid Toyota. So mad!


Are you mad at Toyota? What did they do wrong this time? Why are Toyota stupid? Are they stupid for picking the best drivers?

Double J, the CRZ was supposed to race this year... starting at SUGO (round 4).


Hmm..not really, just a bit frustrated.
Come on...everyone yells and say crazy stuffs at rival team. Its in everyones nature.
Chocs
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 07:00
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^Could you imagine how Nissan fans would feel? Their best race finish so far is one third place ... :>
BachelorFrog
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 07:29
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Nissan came 4th in this race. Thats what the leader board says.
CafeDelMar90
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 10:24
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so is the Honda team leading the championship? last time i checked the english version fo the site hadnt been updated..
CR-V9
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 12:09
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Just brief translations, not literal though.

When Tachikawa(SC430) passed Yamamoto(HSV010),
“He brings it home (when it’s) needed. He passed to win in the last lap at SUGO, before. Will he do it(win) here, again?” “He is the man who does it (when it’s) needed”

When Yamamoto(HSV010) passed Tachikawa(SC430),
“If he extended his arm Yamamoto could almost touch and grab Tachikawa’s tail. But Tachikawa is not an easy man to pass.” “You can see his youth in his driving.” “Yamamoto is coming. He is coming. He is reaching. (he is trying but) Tachikawa is calm, steady(not intimidated.”, “Yamamoto gets in! Yamamoto stays in. Yamamoto? Tachikawa? Which? Yamamoto is!” “2 more laps, left. HSV looks good. That’s their place."

"Final lap! Passed over Tachikawa. (There is) little(time) left(for him)." “(There are) no cars in front(of them) It’s a clear lap.” “Ahhhhaaa Tachikawa’s coming!” “Great!” “WTF!” “What’s going on?” “(We) don’t know, yet. (They’re) still in the double hairpin.”, “Did he watch his back too much?”, “Don’t give up, Yamamoto. (There are) still more left.” “ Great race!” “Never seen a race like this.” “Will Yamamoto try again? Which way (will he go)? No he can’t. Ahaa” “Tachikawa’s holding on.” “Now, it’s done. The fight is over.” “What an opening(race).”
“Tachikawa and Yamamoto, (we) would like to give them applause for their courage.” “Yamamoto is the one who has won but Yamamoto did the same driving as if he had won. It was a great opening of the 2012 season.”, “(We) have to see it again but Yamamoto probably went in too much over there.”, …, “Well, Tachikawa ia a great driver.” “Yes, he does it when it’s needed to be done.” “He’s shown his pride (which) said “young man, don’t think you can pass so easily.” “Well, his team had endured bad last 2 years. They lost the sweet spots on their cars. … (We) can understand.” “Yamamoto must be in deep agony(pain).” “Must be” “ He had it once though, then it fell off.” “His things about not to give up is strong.”
“Tachikawa is bringing it home slowly, unlike his usual. He taking his sweet time getting out of his car. He looks tired.”


From the interview.
“well, at the end (I) was passed but (I) didn’t give up. That’s came out good. I’m tired today.”
“(It was) now or never, to go for it or what. (It was) very tough, (I was) passed once. (I thought) the other(driver) must have been tough, too. So it was gonna be the battle of our mental strength. (I) didn’t want to give up until the end. In the last one, two laps, (I thought, I) can’t come home with just being passed over. Yeah, it was (my) pride(ego).” “(when) you don’t give up until the end, something good happens. I’m truly exhausted today.”
They’re probably off but something like that. (at least i gave you something)

PS. Toyota run their hybrid Prius there but retired because of electrical problems.


BachelorFrog wrote:
Thanks for the link.

Stupid Toyota. So mad!

+1
Chocs
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 13:43
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CafeDelMar90 wrote:
so is the Honda team leading the championship? last time i checked the english version fo the site hadnt been updated..

Honda is leading...

1. Honda KUNIMITSU (36)
2. Lexus ZENT CERUMO (28)
3. Lexus SARD (28)
4. Nissan NISMO (25)
5. Honda KEIHIN (22)

Link

BachelorFrog wrote:
Nissan came 4th in this race. Thats what the leader board says.


I did say "so far". That includes round 2 in which the MOTUL GTR came 3rd. But this IS a round 1 thread, so I probably strayed off topic..

At any rate, RAYBRIG seems to be pretty consistent. Honda has a bunch of young drivers though... wouldn't put it past them to make blunders like letting a Lexus pass in the final lap. Arrrr..

Is there any confirmation of the LFA replacing the SC430? I thought it was meant to be this season! :(
K25
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 19:33
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HondaJet wrote:
One should be smart enough to discern a CLEAN PASS and a DIRTY PASS... Lexus clearly made a dirty one.

Are you refering to the last overtake? That CLEARLY was not a dirty pass. I think sadlerau described well what happened. I agree with his view. At the end of the day Yamamoto let the door open by making a mistake and any good driver would go for that space that he left.

It was just another costly mistake by Yamamoto while trying desperately to win his first race. Since he moved to GT500 with Kunimitsu in 2010 they had a few chances to win but either he or his erratic teammate Izawa blew it. This was just another missed chance and he's starting to get tired of losing, and that's why he was crying after the race, as he explained in his blog. He couldn't swallow the situation. I can imagine Kunimitsu-san must be starting to lose patience. Afterall his team doesn't win a race since the 2005 season! (okay Izawa won last year's JAF grand prix sprint cup but that is not a championship race).
K25
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 19:40
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BachelorFrog wrote:
K25 wrote:
BachelorFrog wrote:
Thanks for the link.

Stupid Toyota. So mad!


Are you mad at Toyota? What did they do wrong this time? Why are Toyota stupid? Are they stupid for picking the best drivers?

Double J, the CRZ was supposed to race this year... starting at SUGO (round 4).


Hmm..not really, just a bit frustrated.
Come on...everyone yells and say crazy stuffs at rival team. Its in everyones nature.


I understand...
I was depressed for the whole day! (that's how bad I want Honda to win). That should've been a Honda victory. But I wasn't shouting at my screen calling names at Tachikawa or calling Toyota stupid :)
Instead, I was more upset with Yamamoto. All he had to do was to remain calm for that last lap and not let any door open.

Chocs wrote:
^Could you imagine how Nissan fans would feel? Their best race finish so far is one third place ... :>


I'm sure they won't feel that bad, last year they couldn't stop winning. It was a dream season for Nissan fans.

PS: Don't give much importance about leading the tables at this point. In SGT it is normal/common having a different team leading the standings after each race. It's the nature of the rules/series. Almost every year we see Honda leading at some point (or for some period) in the season. It's at the very end that for some reason or another they usually lose it :(
Chocs
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 20:04
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K25 wrote:

Chocs wrote:
^Could you imagine how Nissan fans would feel? Their best race finish so far is one third place ... :>


I'm sure they won't feel that bad, last year they couldn't stop winning. It was a dream season for Nissan fans.

PS: Don't give much importance about leading the tables at this point. In SGT it is normal/common having a different team leading the standings after each race. It's the nature of the rules/series. Almost every year we see Honda leading at some point (or for some period) in the season. It's at the very end that for some reason or another they usually lose it :(



It's all in good fun. I'm just letting myself get carried by the mood and decided to feel optimistic. Huge HSV fanboy here :P

Incidentally, how close are you following this series? I read somewhere that Honda will introduce new aero later in the season, and the current V-wing stay + double rear fender winglets (?) are not it. Is that true or a misunderstanding?
sadlerau
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-09-2012 21:38
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Chocs wrote:

Incidentally, how close are you following this series? I read somewhere that Honda will introduce new aero later in the season, and the current V-wing stay + double rear fender winglets (?) are not it. Is that true or a misunderstanding?




Go to this thread for all the inside information on Super GT.

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131602
CR-V9
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-13-2012 18:31
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Brief bits from Mr. Matsumoto’s pre-race(Fuji) report from the ground …

It was cooler than we had anticipated here last year. We were having hard time warming up our tires And we had the problems of the window fogging and we were forced to pit in extra for it. However we have been ready for the fogging during our winter testing so it shouldn't be the problem this time.
[ … ]
This year, we are forced to pit twice by the regulations because of the Fuji’s racing length, 500km. So we have to strategize our plan accordingly.
According to the new regulations, we have to use the same tires we used at the qualifying to start the race. So we’d consquently have to do our first stint short, then then go on from there depending on the race’s developments.

We’ve received criticisms that our HSV0101 doesn’t have straight speed as fast as other teams’ because it has more down force thus more drags. We did work on this, too. We’ve created so called “Fuji aero package” to suppress on drag yet to increase on straight speed.
You might ask “The down force would be down(less), too then”. It doesn’t have to be exactly a 1:1 co-relation in down force and drag. When aerodynamic improves as a whole, it is possible to raise the down force while we lower the drags. We’ve developed new rear wings and bumpers(fenders?) as of basic concept of less down force to increase the top speed, 4~5km/h. Yet we’ve also achieved faster corner speed than last year’s
Will we win at Fuji? We can’t say that considering our other opponents till its curtain finally opens. To be honest, in order to say “We will win” with confidence we’d like to have that “plus” something(to say so), and we’re striving for it right now.
[ … ]
http://www.honda.co.jp/SuperGT/spcontents2012/preview/vol42/


PS. From the pre-season comments from Mr. Matsumoto,
He plans to implement the telemetry data analysis program like one from F1, from testings to race days, this year.

(something like that)

K25
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-14-2012 19:21
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Thanks, CR-V9.
I was thinking maybe you could translate his main points in his Fuji race report (link). He talks about the actual result of the improvements made to the HSV's top speed in the race and the comparison to the SC430 and the GTR.
BachelorFrog
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-14-2012 20:12
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^Open the link in Chrome and see the translation.
K25
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2012 09:48
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Frog, are you fucking kidding me?

PS: Yes I tried that and others but that doesn't mean it's any helpful. With certain languages these automated online "translators" are completely useless
CR-V9
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-15-2012 14:14
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K25 wrote:
Thanks, CR-V9.
I was thinking maybe you could translate his main points in his Fuji race report (link). He talks about the actual result of the improvements made to the HSV's top speed in the race and the comparison to the SC430 and the GTR.

There is not much there as far as technical explanations how fast Raybrig HVS010 was in straight. He said that it was racing strategy of pit in to change slicks to rain tires to slicks. He did feel good because Raybrig carried a 20kg handicap weight to come in 2nd though.
He just went through when they pitted in and when they changed tires to what. That's it.

From the winter testing they think their HVS010s are as fast as NIssan yet maybe not so as SC430s in straight. Well, I don’t think they did really find out how fast their cars yet, I suppose.
CR-V9
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Re: Watch Raybrig HSV10 battle at 2012 Super GT Round1    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-24-2012 10:01
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http://www.honda.co.jp/SuperGT/spcontents2012/hsv-010gt/

Main theme in 2012 is maturation of the split radiators, in which there are three major challenges.

1. First is to further mature the betterment of aerodynamics related to the side-radiators, especially air flow through the radiators. Air from This the front of the car goes through the ducts, the radiators and the (outlet)louvers out of the car. We’ve improved its airflow(less drag).
We’ve also changed the rear fenders’ designs. 2012 were for less-drag, we aimed around to lower drags although it would be possible to maintain down force while reducing drag if aerodynamics improves as a whole. Therefore we reevaluated the rear fender design to increase the down forces. As for aerodynamics, totality of car’s drags and down forces are important but also a balance between front and rear’s down forces is as important as well. We’ve developed the rear fenders designs in lieu of a total down force balance.

2. Next up is the new restrictor plate. Air-restrictor is a ring-shaped part to limit air intake into an engine. Engine output correlates to an amount of air intake. Thus, if the small restrictor is used the engine output will decrease accordingly. In SuperGT, the air restrictor is used to even out its field amongst different competitors. This year, GT500 has enlarged its air restrictors, two(?) 29.1mm-diametor ones to two(?) 30.0mm-diametor ones. SuperGT has its own restrictor size standard and it is called “2 res-up” or “2 restrictor-up” because the change equals to a 2 level increase.
As the restrictor gets bigger, the engine’s top rpm goes up and the power will go up, too. Hence, we’ve changed the ducting that takes air from the front of the car, air intake shape and camshafts.


3 Third is an A/C. As you already know it is not common idea to use an A/C in race cars because it uses away power from the engine. However, the inside of car would get up to 40~50c. Under these sever racing conditions the driver would dehydrate, could lose his consciousness and could possibly lose his life in worst case. We use cool-suits that cool the driver’s body. This is a device that circulates cool water that is cooled through a cooler box filled with ice. The driver wears this jacket with small pipe running through it, under his racing suits and cool water runs through this pipe. But certain parts of body get to be cooled meanwhile other parts would not get cooled at all. It has been said it’s very uncomfortable.

A/C we’ve developed blows cool air directory from the driving seat. We try to cool driver’s body as much area as possible. On the other hand we didn’t have to cool a whole car so we only needed minimum. (So)we were able to limit minimum power loss from the engine. By the way, we’ve made this compressor based on the one used in our Honda’s Key-cars.


Pic 1.(is going to be brief)
Front wheelhousing. Alcon caliper as you can see. Shape(type?) is regulated. Right hand side is the front. You can see the side radiator air outlet in the far left side(I can't see it).

Pic 2.
Huge black carbon thingy is for engine air intake and radiator. Two orange colored ducts are for brakes.
Top power went up some 40ps because of larger air restrictor.

Pic 3.
Switches. Many switches. (didn't explain which one is what)

Pic 4.
New thing here are V-shaped bars on the front windshield you'd probably noticed first. Which is to prevent/protect debries coming from outside into the inside of the car in case of accident and they are connected to the rollcage.
And you can clearly see the A/C unit and big air hoses. PC looking box is the a/c compressor.

Pic 5.
Rear trunk room. GT500 cars use a transaxle that's what you see here. Sus is double-wichbone.
Damper-spring unit is a 3 way damper unit of which you can control wheel stroke(?) and roll independently(no idea). This unit is co-developed with Dome co.

Pic 6.
Area aroubd the rear fender. Double deck asy(?) It was a single one last year. It is double deck(?) to increase down force.

(something like that. Hope it makes sense.)
 
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