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TOV Forums > ILX > > Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews

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Rgist85
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Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2012 22:24
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TonyE wrote:
I seriously doubt that the Buick Verano and Ford Focus are in the same shopping list of someone looking at an ILX.

The Buick is very boring looking car, with an overstyled dash and a tight interior. I honestly don't know who they are marketing the car to? It's like they want to sell you a big car that is not big?

The Ford, OTOH, is edgy. It's the exact opposite of the Buick. Again, I can see that someone looking at the Ford Focus might be looking at a Civic Si... and likely someone who's more enamored of the in dash gizmos than the underpinnings.

The back seat of both cars, Ford and Buick, look smaller than the back seat of my Civic sedan. And, the ILX is supposed to be a little bit larger than the Civic, hence I think the ILX is a more useful sedan.

I think the logic of this comparison fails because they push up strawmen cars are arguments... It's like saying the BMW is overpriced... everyone knows that.

This type of lame comparison is being invited by Acura's marketing team because they are not trying hard.

Again, the ILX should be pushed as a powerful and economical small luxury car. The R20 is likely all the engine most folks need, but there MUST be top dogs

K24/AT6SS/SH-AWD ILX-S (200bhp)
K22/MT6/SH-AWD ILX-S (230 bhp)

Price them at 35K and shove them out the journalists to salivate for. ( Please reserve one MT for me...)

Put the Halo ILX-S against the 3 series Bimmer and then you won't see this kind of hogwash, milquetoast reviews.






I'd have to disagree, considering I'm looking at the ILX (Wanted to look at the Civic but no manual on EX and EX-L trims and that awful interior kept me away) Focus Titanium and the Verano Turbo (whenever it comes out.)

I'm not crazy about the Mini-LaCrosse look of the Verano, but I find in certain areas its decent looking, it looks no more boring to me than the ILX does IMO, neither looks as good as the Focus (Hatchback) I'm not all that crazy about the Focus Sedan's looks either.

Considering the Focus Titanium up until a month or so ago was only available with the automatic transmission, what would make you think folks looking at a Focus would be considering a Civic Si? The Titanium isn't even a Civic Si competitor that's the Focus ST's job. Focus handles pretty nicely for what it is, and IMO a Focus, even in SEL trim handles better than the Civic in equalivalent trims. SI might have a slight edge but its not by much.

There is nothing "Luxury" about an ILX, Pandora, and push button start certainly are not luxury features, the interior is definitely nicer than the Civic's but the ILX's interior should be what the Civic should have had in the first place. No memory seats, no doodads and gadgetry, nothing about the ILX screams "Luxury" to me, I guess you could say its "Premium" next to the Civic's interior, but just about everything in this class now (Focus, Elantra, Cruze, Impreza even the new Sentra) feels more "premium" than the Civic's interior.

Its pretty obvious that most of the major automotive press believes the ILX is basically competition to the Verano (Motortrend has an article up comparing the two already LOL and Autoblog made reference to the Verano in the ILX review) and high end Focus, Jetta (GLI mostly) and Mazda3

Acura should offer more features on the ILX or lower the price, otherwise these comparisons against the Verano, the Focus, the Jetta and the Mazda3 will keep coming up...its not just on this website, but on autoblog, motortrend, car and driver and elsewhere...seems like this car is a "good" car, but its not the standout the press was looking for and perhaps not the standout Acura really needs. Its a better effort than the Civic, but it doesn't scream "Acura" to me, it should have been the Civic IMO. As one of those "late 20 somethings" Acura claims to be chasing after, the ILX impresses me for its stately styling and the fact that it offers a 6spd manual in a decently equipped package but if they think offering pandora, text messaging and push button start is impressive, I'd have to say they need to go back to the drawing board...I'll just sit it out for the next Accord or perhaps wait for the 1.6t/6mt combo that is coming in the Fusion SE and the Focus Titanium later this year.


atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2012 22:40
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TonyE wrote:
The back seat of both cars, Ford and Buick, look smaller than the back seat of my Civic sedan. And, the ILX is supposed to be a little bit larger than the Civic, hence I think the ILX is a more useful sedan.
...

Again, the ILX should be pushed as a powerful and economical small luxury car. The R20 is likely all the engine most folks need, but there MUST be top dogs

K24/AT6SS/SH-AWD ILX-S (200bhp)
K22/MT6/SH-AWD ILX-S (230 bhp)


I can confirm that the Ford's rear bench is very very tight. There's not much legroom, and the entire cabin feels very closed-in. It doesn't even come close to the 8G Civic in this regard.

As far as "top dog" trims, I don't know how feasible adding SH-AWD would be to something the size of an ILX. The current 2.4L weighs in at 2978 lbs, and I believe SH-AWD adds roughly 250 lbs to the TL. Now a hypothetical SH-AWD for a 4-cylinder powertrain would weigh less. If we look at the RT-4WD on the CR-V, it adds roughly 121 lbs, but is much less sophisticated. If we roughly guestimate +200 lbs for a SH-AWD paired w' K24, that puts the ILX at nearly 3200 lbs. The car might handle well, but I think it might be a bit sluggish with an automatic. SH-AWD would also likely compromise interior volume or trunk space. If you look at the current TL, it is a bit big on the outside, but not that big on the inside.

What will make a good "top dog" trim feasible will be the 2.4L Earth Dreams engine. Honda said it would offer 10% more torque and 5% more efficiency. This is probably a conservative figure, as Honda tends to understate things initially. Assuming that there is roughly 10% more torque across the whole RPM range, a hypothetical E24 engine would generate 190 lb-ft of torque and 221 HP. If weight stays roughly the same, this yields 13.5 lbs per HP if the engine is kept on full boil.

This compares favorably to a BMW 328i (3406 lbs / 240 HP = 14.2 lbs per HP), although the bimmer's much higher 260 lb-ft of torque will give it much more off-the-line punch. However, the BMW's engine is pretty much done once the tach climbs into the 6000s.

Honda would probably have to throw in a limited-slip differential, which would add weight, but even then, I think they could reach into 3-series levels of performance without a turbocharger.

Neal wrote:
I have to say that I would not consider the ILX interior "more useful" than the Civic's, as Jeff was not able to sit in the rear comfortably (without his head against the headliner - I think he'd need an additional 1.5-2" to clear it). The hump of the center cushion would certainly not allow 3 average adults to seat.


Correct me if I am wrong... I recall Jeff says he is about 170cm or 5' 10", but I seem to also remember him saying that he has the torso of a taller person. Acura specifies rear head room at 35.9 in (913 mm), while the 9G Civic EX is listed as 36.2 in. This suggests similar overall headroom.

Did you get a look at the center cubby? It looks small, but how deep is it? The equivalent open "box" in the 9G Civic in front of the transmission lever is kind of shallow and feels useless.
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2012 22:55
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Rgist85 wrote:
Its a better effort than the Civic, but it doesn't scream "Acura" to me, it should have been the Civic IMO.


My suspicion is that the ILX ***was*** all along the 9G Civic... until the financial crisis hit and Ito ordered the Civic line re-focused on fuel economy and cost reduction.

I did an entire analysis on this in a thread long ago. My theory was this: In 2009, Civic development was halfway done. Ito ordered a re-design, that the Honda team rushed, which unfortunately resulted in a haphazard interior layout. Honda, not being a company to waste resources, threw the engineering work that had already been done on the original 9G Civic to Acura, which took an extra year to finish the design (the ILX is going on sale roughly 1 year after the 9G Civic).

In this scenario, Honda actually produced 3 variations on the Civic theme: the 9G USDM, which is a Civic that resulted from the evolutionary pressures of scarce resources; the 9G EU Civic, a vehicle that evolved from the need for something to drive on smaller roads and satisfy a customer base that demands better interiors on small cars; finally, the ILX, a clear step up from the 8G Civic in terms of refinement and interior quality, but not much more efficient (at least until Earth Dreams engines). Confusing? As Obi-Wan says: "this is not the Civic you are looking for"...
NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-23-2012 23:18
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atomic,
I just break 6' but can't say for sure if Jeff is only 2 inches shorter than me (sorry, Jeff ;-).

The center cubby is very small. I specifically remember Jeff commenting about how it irritated him not having a right-sized place for his phone.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2012 12:45
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Neal wrote:
atomic,
I just break 6' but can't say for sure if Jeff is only 2 inches shorter than me (sorry, Jeff ;-).

The center cubby is very small. I specifically remember Jeff commenting about how it irritated him not having a right-sized place for his phone.



I am somewhere in between 5'9 and 5'10 these days. maybe 176-177cm. I have shrunk a little bit with age. Anyhow, I do seem to have a long torso which makes headroom a challenge for me in some cars, while taller people have no problem.


Last edited by JeffX on 04-24-2012 12:50
Kool Aid
Profile for Kool Aid
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2012 20:37
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Rgist85 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
I seriously doubt that the Buick Verano and Ford Focus are in the same shopping list of someone looking at an ILX.


Acura should offer more features on the ILX or lower the price, otherwise these comparisons against the Verano, the Focus, the Jetta and the Mazda3 will keep coming up...


Just as when Acura cars like the TL get up to $45K, people start saying 'why spend $45K on an Acura when I can get a BMW or Merc for the same money?" Don't you think that when faced with a $25K+ Ford, VW, Mazda or Buick that some start saying, "why spend $25K+ on an [insert brand from list above] when I can get an Acura for the same money?
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2012 21:50
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The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyers are going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name. That's one of the saddest things about Acura's loss of focus and direction over the last 10+ years - they've thrown away some hard won and very valuable brand equity.

SC
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2012 22:05
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
This compares favorably to a BMW 328i (3406 lbs / 240 HP = 14.2 lbs per HP), although the bimmer's much higher 260 lb-ft of torque will give it much more off-the-line punch. However, the BMW's engine is pretty much done once the tach climbs into the 6000s.

Honda would probably have to throw in a limited-slip differential, which would add weight, but even then, I think they could reach into 3-series levels of performance without a turbocharger.



The BMW turbo engine is quite underrated. On the same dyno that the link refers to my S2000 tested at 202 whp bone stock and 211 whp with a CAI. A stock 2010 Si puts down about 187 whp on that dyno as well.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/02/dyno-tested-2012-bmw-328i.html

This is the same hp and more torque than the Accord V6 6MT

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=831240

Which explains how the BMW can get through the 1/4 mile close to 14 flat and at nearly 100 mph. (The Accord 6MT is a little lighter and is a touch faster through the traps).

Anyways, a bit off topic, but if Honda really wants to compete with BMW on the drivetrain front they're going to have to step up a bit if they want to keep running I4 engines. A 240 hp K22 would probably do it if they could keep the weight down.

SC

SC
Rgist85
Profile for Rgist85
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-24-2012 22:14
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Kool Aid wrote:
Rgist85 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
I seriously doubt that the Buick Verano and Ford Focus are in the same shopping list of someone looking at an ILX.


Acura should offer more features on the ILX or lower the price, otherwise these comparisons against the Verano, the Focus, the Jetta and the Mazda3 will keep coming up...


Just as when Acura cars like the TL get up to $45K, people start saying 'why spend $45K on an Acura when I can get a BMW or Merc for the same money?" Don't you think that when faced with a $25K+ Ford, VW, Mazda or Buick that some start saying, "why spend $25K+ on an [insert brand from list above] when I can get an Acura for the same money?




I have no issue with a 45K Acura TL or a 35K Acura ILX as long as they pack the feature content, styling, interior designs and materials and technology that is avaiable from other makes and models for similar money. Since I'm consider $25-27K or even a 29K Focus Titanium models, I have no issue with the price because of the feature content they offer over the ILX, they styling (the hatchback) and the handling...I have no issue with paying high dollar for a mainstream compact as long as it meets my needs and considering about 20-25 percent of Focus sales happen to be Titanium/SEL models, I don't think those buyers have issues with it either.
Kool Aid
Profile for Kool Aid
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 00:04
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notyper wrote:
The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyersare going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name.

SC


Which is why I specifically said "some buyers will say", in effect, you're agreeing with me. IMO, this is a validation that the 'pecking order' exists. If Acura had the badge power, we wouldn't be having this discussion. My point was that all brands follow this strategy. If you're 'lower' in prestige, you offer more content for less money. Acura 'does it' to those above the ILX and some brands 'lower in prestige' will do it to the new Acura.

Since I'm consider $25-27K or even a 29K Focus Titanium models, I have no issue with the price because of the feature content they offer over the ILX, they styling (the hatchback) and the handling...I have no issue with paying high dollar for a mainstream compact as long as it meets my needs and considering about 20-25 percent of Focus sales happen to be Titanium/SEL models, I don't think those buyers have issues with it either.


The same sentiment for your comment. Some will and some won't have a problem. And since the Ford is supposed to be a Civic competitor and sell in the 200K-300K per year range, it's difficult to judge the success of a car in the 40K a year range by that metric.

The only thing that matters is that 40K a year find the ILX to be a good combination of price/efficiency/features to satisfy their needs. I'm not blind to the vehicle's shortcomings, but just because it doesn't suit the needs of TOV, doesn't mean it won't find happy homes with some people.

I predict that most buyers in the projected AGE range will be women. If men buy it, they will be WELL over the (suggested) demographic and probably be emptynesters who have other more expensive cars, or but want a 2nd with a nice interior and lots of creature comforts in a small package. They also might be attracted to the relatively small volume.

People buy (or don't buy) cars for any number of reasons. We shouldn't invalidate someone elses just because it's not ours. That's what I'm trying to say. Oh and don't forget, NOBODY here (except Jeff and Neil) have actually driven the car yet.


notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 10:49
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Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyersare going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name.

SC

Which is why I specifically said "some buyers will say", in effect, you're agreeing with me. IMO, this is a validation that the 'pecking order' exists. If Acura had the badge power, we wouldn't be having this discussion. My point was that all brands follow this strategy. If you're 'lower' in prestige, you offer more content for less money. Acura 'does it' to those above the ILX and some brands 'lower in prestige' will do it to the new Acura.



You specifically tried to draw an equivalency between people saying that they'd rather buy a German luxury car for the same money as an Acura, with people saying they'd buy an Acura for the same money as a Ford, et al.

I'm saying that a false equivalency, because the brand power of the Germans vs. Acura is a bigger gap than Acura vs. anyone else. You can play the "some people" will buy it game with anything. "Some people" think the ZDX and 2nd gen Insight are worth it too.

SC
NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 12:21
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Jeff has posted his ILX review. Please check it out here.
superchg2
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Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 12:23
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Kool Aid wrote:

I predict that most buyers in the projected AGE range will be women. If men buy it, they will be WELL over the (suggested) demographic and probably be emptynesters who have other more expensive cars, or but want a 2nd with a nice interior and lots of creature comforts in a small package. They also might be attracted to the relatively small volume.


Agreed!
Kool Aid
Profile for Kool Aid
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 15:36
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notyper wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyersare going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name.

SC

Which is why I specifically said "some buyers will say", in effect, you're agreeing with me. IMO, this is a validation that the 'pecking order' exists. If Acura had the badge power, we wouldn't be having this discussion. My point was that all brands follow this strategy. If you're 'lower' in prestige, you offer more content for less money. Acura 'does it' to those above the ILX and some brands 'lower in prestige' will do it to the new Acura.



You specifically tried to draw an equivalency between people saying that they'd rather buy a German luxury car for the same money as an Acura, with people saying they'd buy an Acura for the same money as a Ford, et al.

I'm saying that a false equivalency, because the brand power of the Germans vs. Acura is a bigger gap than Acura vs. anyone else. You can play the "some people" will buy it game with anything. "Some people" think the ZDX and 2nd gen Insight are worth it too.

SC


That only works if you truly feel that the Acura brand name has zero value. I think it carries more weight than you're giving it credit for (maybe not for you but for many buyers). Thus my Acura > Ford contention. The fact that the ILX will never be a rental car, or that it's volume guarantees some level of 'not seen on every corner' or that Acura traditionally has better reliability and resale (the rental point above) all add up so some brand equity for buyers, although each may find their own hot button. These points are as close as a 'fact' as we'll get in this discussion.

However, what is open for discussion is whether the ILX is good for the money? Personally, I think it's a little too high, but not by much. For example, (and I don't want to belittle $1000-1500 cause as a percentage in this price range it's a lot) but if this car started at $24,400 would that be so bad? If a 2.0 Tech package were $29,900 don't you think it would 'sound' better?

I know this is no TSX, but I'd remind you that back in 2003 when the pricing for the TSX was released at ~$27K there was a collective groan since the TL was only $29K at the time. As it turned out, both the 2004 TSX and 2003 TL sold well to different customers and when the 2004 TL came out, there was suddenly an appropriate difference in price and the TSX really started to shine.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 16:00
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Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyersare going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name.

SC

Which is why I specifically said "some buyers will say", in effect, you're agreeing with me. IMO, this is a validation that the 'pecking order' exists. If Acura had the badge power, we wouldn't be having this discussion. My point was that all brands follow this strategy. If you're 'lower' in prestige, you offer more content for less money. Acura 'does it' to those above the ILX and some brands 'lower in prestige' will do it to the new Acura.



You specifically tried to draw an equivalency between people saying that they'd rather buy a German luxury car for the same money as an Acura, with people saying they'd buy an Acura for the same money as a Ford, et al.

I'm saying that a false equivalency, because the brand power of the Germans vs. Acura is a bigger gap than Acura vs. anyone else. You can play the "some people" will buy it game with anything. "Some people" think the ZDX and 2nd gen Insight are worth it too.

SC


That only works if you truly feel that the Acura brand name has zero value. I think it carries more weight than you're giving it credit for (maybe not for you but for many buyers). Thus my Acura > Ford contention. The fact that the ILX will never be a rental car, or that it's volume guarantees some level of 'not seen on every corner' or that Acura traditionally has better reliability and resale (the rental point above) all add up so some brand equity for buyers, although each may find their own hot button. These points are as close as a 'fact' as we'll get in this discussion.

However, what is open for discussion is whether the ILX is good for the money? Personally, I think it's a little too high, but not by much. For example, (and I don't want to belittle $1000-1500 cause as a percentage in this price range it's a lot) but if this car started at $24,400 would that be so bad? If a 2.0 Tech package were $29,900 don't you think it would 'sound' better?

I know this is no TSX, but I'd remind you that back in 2003 when the pricing for the TSX was released at ~$27K there was a collective groan since the TL was only $29K at the time. As it turned out, both the 2004 TSX and 2003 TL sold well to different customers and when the 2004 TL came out, there was suddenly an appropriate difference in price and the TSX really started to shine.



to justify that near $30k price, the ILX with tech package needs the 2.4. My friend who's currently shopping for something right now was initially very interested in the ILX until he learned he could not get the 2.4 with an automatic. Now the only Acura he'll consider is the TSX and he may go elsewhere altogether.

now if Acura had cooked up a nice little 200+hp 2.0T with a 6AT, put it in an ILX tech for $29,900, people would be camping outside Acura dealerships until May 25th.
Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 16:27
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But Acura won't let you have hot 2.0 because it is too damaging to the planet as deemed by Acura/Honda. Do you think that the 'earth dreams' powertrains would be able to fill that niche?
Kool Aid
Profile for Kool Aid
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 16:38
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Jeff wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyersare going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name.

SC

Which is why I specifically said "some buyers will say", in effect, you're agreeing with me. IMO, this is a validation that the 'pecking order' exists. If Acura had the badge power, we wouldn't be having this discussion. My point was that all brands follow this strategy. If you're 'lower' in prestige, you offer more content for less money. Acura 'does it' to those above the ILX and some brands 'lower in prestige' will do it to the new Acura.



You specifically tried to draw an equivalency between people saying that they'd rather buy a German luxury car for the same money as an Acura, with people saying they'd buy an Acura for the same money as a Ford, et al.

I'm saying that a false equivalency, because the brand power of the Germans vs. Acura is a bigger gap than Acura vs. anyone else. You can play the "some people" will buy it game with anything. "Some people" think the ZDX and 2nd gen Insight are worth it too.

SC


That only works if you truly feel that the Acura brand name has zero value. I think it carries more weight than you're giving it credit for (maybe not for you but for many buyers). Thus my Acura > Ford contention. The fact that the ILX will never be a rental car, or that it's volume guarantees some level of 'not seen on every corner' or that Acura traditionally has better reliability and resale (the rental point above) all add up so some brand equity for buyers, although each may find their own hot button. These points are as close as a 'fact' as we'll get in this discussion.

However, what is open for discussion is whether the ILX is good for the money? Personally, I think it's a little too high, but not by much. For example, (and I don't want to belittle $1000-1500 cause as a percentage in this price range it's a lot) but if this car started at $24,400 would that be so bad? If a 2.0 Tech package were $29,900 don't you think it would 'sound' better?

I know this is no TSX, but I'd remind you that back in 2003 when the pricing for the TSX was released at ~$27K there was a collective groan since the TL was only $29K at the time. As it turned out, both the 2004 TSX and 2003 TL sold well to different customers and when the 2004 TL came out, there was suddenly an appropriate difference in price and the TSX really started to shine.



to justify that near $30k price, the ILX with tech package needs the 2.4. My friend who's currently shopping for something right now was initially very interested in the ILX until he learned he could not get the 2.4 with an automatic. Now the only Acura he'll consider is the TSX and he may go elsewhere altogether.

now if Acura had cooked up a nice little 200+hp 2.0T with a 6AT, put it in an ILX tech for $29,900, people would be camping outside Acura dealerships until May 25th.


Since there is no 6AT the 5AT would have to suffice, and the 2.4 would have to stand in for the 2.0T, but yeah, a 2.4+AT with Tech at $30K would have been a home run. BUT I still think that they're trying to 'train' Acura customers that if they want an extra feature (Navi) they should expect to pay for it. I'm not 100% sure that H/A customers are 're-trainable' but they continue to try.

As an alternative, if the base engine (which I'll admit I haven't tried) had 160-180 HP it might have been 'acceptable' at the current pricing scheme. Heck, that might not make it a home run, but it could be a triple. As it is, its a solid base hit, but it needs something else to bring it home (ED?)
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 19:40
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No, you simply drew a false equivalency. I'll repeat - the brand perception gap between Acura and the German luxury marques is much higher than between Acura and the mainstream volume brands. This does not imply that the Acura brand has no value. Clear? But your A is to B as C is to D equivalency breaks down.

I'd go so far as to hazard a guess that today's Acura nameplate carries little additional value over the Honda brand itself (this was not the case 15-20 years ago). It's pure conjecture on my part, but I wonder how many people would rather buy a Acura vehicle with a Honda badge and save some money that is no longer going into extra marketing/branding/dealer chain? I'll bet the number is not insignificant.

As for the ILX, it's really neither here nor there for me. I think the overall direction Acura is taking with the entry lineup is completely useless for a luxury nameplate (poor power, mileage below that of other hybrid competitors in the segment, vanilla styling). I don't think the ILX brings anything new or exciting to the segment and without brand value to fall back on, or a strong marketing department to generate traffic, I worry that Acura won't sell many.

SC

Kool Aid wrote:
That only works if you truly feel that the Acura brand name has zero value. I think it carries more weight than you're giving it credit for (maybe not for you but for many buyers). Thus my Acura > Ford contention. The fact that the ILX will never be a rental car, or that it's volume guarantees some level of 'not seen on every corner' or that Acura traditionally has better reliability and resale (the rental point above) all add up so some brand equity for buyers, although each may find their own hot button. These points are as close as a 'fact' as we'll get in this discussion.

However, what is open for discussion is whether the ILX is good for the money? Personally, I think it's a little too high, but not by much. For example, (and I don't want to belittle $1000-1500 cause as a percentage in this price range it's a lot) but if this car started at $24,400 would that be so bad? If a 2.0 Tech package were $29,900 don't you think it would 'sound' better?


Kool Aid
Profile for Kool Aid
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 20:34
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notyper wrote:
No, you simply drew a false equivalency. I'll repeat - the brand perception gap between Acura and the German luxury marques is much higher than between Acura and the mainstream volume brands. This does not imply that the Acura brand has no value. Clear? But your A is to B as C is to D equivalency breaks down.

I'd go so far as to hazard a guess that today's Acura nameplate carries little additional value over the Honda brand itself (this was not the case 15-20 years ago). It's pure conjecture on my part, but I wonder how many people would rather buy a Acura vehicle with a Honda badge and save some money that is no longer going into extra marketing/branding/dealer chain? I'll bet the number is not insignificant.

As for the ILX, it's really neither here nor there for me. I think the overall direction Acura is taking with the entry lineup is completely useless for a luxury nameplate (poor power, mileage below that of other hybrid competitors in the segment, vanilla styling). I don't think the ILX brings anything new or exciting to the segment and without brand value to fall back on, or a strong marketing department to generate traffic, I worry that Acura won't sell many.

SC

Kool Aid wrote:
That only works if you truly feel that the Acura brand name has zero value. I think it carries more weight than you're giving it credit for (maybe not for you but for many buyers). Thus my Acura > Ford contention. The fact that the ILX will never be a rental car, or that it's volume guarantees some level of 'not seen on every corner' or that Acura traditionally has better reliability and resale (the rental point above) all add up so some brand equity for buyers, although each may find their own hot button. These points are as close as a 'fact' as we'll get in this discussion.

However, what is open for discussion is whether the ILX is good for the money? Personally, I think it's a little too high, but not by much. For example, (and I don't want to belittle $1000-1500 cause as a percentage in this price range it's a lot) but if this car started at $24,400 would that be so bad? If a 2.0 Tech package were $29,900 don't you think it would 'sound' better?




So you think there is less brand value, I think there is more. "A is to B as C is to D" is still valid, just the relative amounts are different. Is that clear? I'm basically saying the same to you we're only differing on the degree, can you live with that?

I agree that Acura's brand value is limited relative to Honda but not relative to the domestics everyone is so fond of these days. However, cars that share (nearly) identical powertrains like the ILX don't help create a gap to Honda. I do think they'll sell what they expect, but not to the age group they're (supposedly) marketing to.
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 21:00
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notyper wrote:
The BMW turbo engine is quite underrated. On the same dyno that the link refers to my S2000 tested at 202 whp bone stock and 211 whp with a CAI. A stock 2010 Si puts down about 187 whp on that dyno as well.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/02/dyno-tested-2012-bmw-328i.html
...

Anyways, a bit off topic, but if Honda really wants to compete with BMW on the drivetrain front they're going to have to step up a bit if they want to keep running I4 engines. A 240 hp K22 would probably do it if they could keep the weight down.

SC


Damn I forgot about the BMW being underrated... Honda will really have to up their game if they want to compete at that level.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-25-2012 21:46
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
notyper wrote:
The BMW turbo engine is quite underrated. On the same dyno that the link refers to my S2000 tested at 202 whp bone stock and 211 whp with a CAI. A stock 2010 Si puts down about 187 whp on that dyno as well.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/02/dyno-tested-2012-bmw-328i.html
...

Anyways, a bit off topic, but if Honda really wants to compete with BMW on the drivetrain front they're going to have to step up a bit if they want to keep running I4 engines. A 240 hp K22 would probably do it if they could keep the weight down.

SC


Damn I forgot about the BMW being underrated... Honda will really have to up their game if they want to compete at that level.



those are impressive numbers, no doubt, but my god that engine sounded incredibly boring and lazy on the dyno. Did they dyno it in 6th? (I know they didn't). It sounded ilke a CR-Z in "ECON" mode.


owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2012 00:17
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Kool Aid wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyersare going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name.

SC

Which is why I specifically said "some buyers will say", in effect, you're agreeing with me. IMO, this is a validation that the 'pecking order' exists. If Acura had the badge power, we wouldn't be having this discussion. My point was that all brands follow this strategy. If you're 'lower' in prestige, you offer more content for less money. Acura 'does it' to those above the ILX and some brands 'lower in prestige' will do it to the new Acura.



You specifically tried to draw an equivalency between people saying that they'd rather buy a German luxury car for the same money as an Acura, with people saying they'd buy an Acura for the same money as a Ford, et al.

I'm saying that a false equivalency, because the brand power of the Germans vs. Acura is a bigger gap than Acura vs. anyone else. You can play the "some people" will buy it game with anything. "Some people" think the ZDX and 2nd gen Insight are worth it too.

SC


That only works if you truly feel that the Acura brand name has zero value. I think it carries more weight than you're giving it credit for (maybe not for you but for many buyers). Thus my Acura > Ford contention. The fact that the ILX will never be a rental car, or that it's volume guarantees some level of 'not seen on every corner' or that Acura traditionally has better reliability and resale (the rental point above) all add up so some brand equity for buyers, although each may find their own hot button. These points are as close as a 'fact' as we'll get in this discussion.

However, what is open for discussion is whether the ILX is good for the money? Personally, I think it's a little too high, but not by much. For example, (and I don't want to belittle $1000-1500 cause as a percentage in this price range it's a lot) but if this car started at $24,400 would that be so bad? If a 2.0 Tech package were $29,900 don't you think it would 'sound' better?

I know this is no TSX, but I'd remind you that back in 2003 when the pricing for the TSX was released at ~$27K there was a collective groan since the TL was only $29K at the time. As it turned out, both the 2004 TSX and 2003 TL sold well to different customers and when the 2004 TL came out, there was suddenly an appropriate difference in price and the TSX really started to shine.



to justify that near $30k price, the ILX with tech package needs the 2.4. My friend who's currently shopping for something right now was initially very interested in the ILX until he learned he could not get the 2.4 with an automatic. Now the only Acura he'll consider is the TSX and he may go elsewhere altogether.

now if Acura had cooked up a nice little 200+hp 2.0T with a 6AT, put it in an ILX tech for $29,900, people would be camping outside Acura dealerships until May 25th.


Since there is no 6AT the 5AT would have to suffice, and the 2.4 would have to stand in for the 2.0T, but yeah, a 2.4+AT with Tech at $30K would have been a home run. BUT I still think that they're trying to 'train' Acura customers that if they want an extra feature (Navi) they should expect to pay for it. I'm not 100% sure that H/A customers are 're-trainable' but they continue to try.

As an alternative, if the base engine (which I'll admit I haven't tried) had 160-180 HP it might have been 'acceptable' at the current pricing scheme. Heck, that might not make it a home run, but it could be a triple. As it is, its a solid base hit, but it needs something else to bring it home (ED?)




This is the biggest pile of nonsense yet. Acura doesn't "train" their customers. The customers, however, WILL train Acura if Acura continues to build crappy product. Not necessarily opposed to the idea of a well executed "entry" model, but IMO, the ILX is not really it.
Kool Aid
Profile for Kool Aid
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-26-2012 01:03
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owequitit wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
Kool Aid wrote:
notyper wrote:
The problem there Kool Aid, is that Acura does not have the brand power that Mercedes, BMW or Audi have. At one time they were certainly well on their way, but these days, I don't think that most buyersare going to be willing to pay a premium for the Acura brand name.

SC

Which is why I specifically said "some buyers will say", in effect, you're agreeing with me. IMO, this is a validation that the 'pecking order' exists. If Acura had the badge power, we wouldn't be having this discussion. My point was that all brands follow this strategy. If you're 'lower' in prestige, you offer more content for less money. Acura 'does it' to those above the ILX and some brands 'lower in prestige' will do it to the new Acura.



You specifically tried to draw an equivalency between people saying that they'd rather buy a German luxury car for the same money as an Acura, with people saying they'd buy an Acura for the same money as a Ford, et al.

I'm saying that a false equivalency, because the brand power of the Germans vs. Acura is a bigger gap than Acura vs. anyone else. You can play the "some people" will buy it game with anything. "Some people" think the ZDX and 2nd gen Insight are worth it too.

SC


That only works if you truly feel that the Acura brand name has zero value. I think it carries more weight than you're giving it credit for (maybe not for you but for many buyers). Thus my Acura > Ford contention. The fact that the ILX will never be a rental car, or that it's volume guarantees some level of 'not seen on every corner' or that Acura traditionally has better reliability and resale (the rental point above) all add up so some brand equity for buyers, although each may find their own hot button. These points are as close as a 'fact' as we'll get in this discussion.

However, what is open for discussion is whether the ILX is good for the money? Personally, I think it's a little too high, but not by much. For example, (and I don't want to belittle $1000-1500 cause as a percentage in this price range it's a lot) but if this car started at $24,400 would that be so bad? If a 2.0 Tech package were $29,900 don't you think it would 'sound' better?

I know this is no TSX, but I'd remind you that back in 2003 when the pricing for the TSX was released at ~$27K there was a collective groan since the TL was only $29K at the time. As it turned out, both the 2004 TSX and 2003 TL sold well to different customers and when the 2004 TL came out, there was suddenly an appropriate difference in price and the TSX really started to shine.



to justify that near $30k price, the ILX with tech package needs the 2.4. My friend who's currently shopping for something right now was initially very interested in the ILX until he learned he could not get the 2.4 with an automatic. Now the only Acura he'll consider is the TSX and he may go elsewhere altogether.

now if Acura had cooked up a nice little 200+hp 2.0T with a 6AT, put it in an ILX tech for $29,900, people would be camping outside Acura dealerships until May 25th.


Since there is no 6AT the 5AT would have to suffice, and the 2.4 would have to stand in for the 2.0T, but yeah, a 2.4+AT with Tech at $30K would have been a home run. BUT I still think that they're trying to 'train' Acura customers that if they want an extra feature (Navi) they should expect to pay for it. I'm not 100% sure that H/A customers are 're-trainable' but they continue to try.

As an alternative, if the base engine (which I'll admit I haven't tried) had 160-180 HP it might have been 'acceptable' at the current pricing scheme. Heck, that might not make it a home run, but it could be a triple. As it is, its a solid base hit, but it needs something else to bring it home (ED?)




This is the biggest pile of nonsense yet. Acura doesn't "train" their customers. The customers, however, WILL train Acura if Acura continues to build crappy product. Not necessarily opposed to the idea of a well executed "entry" model, but IMO, the ILX is not really it.


I wasn't speaking literally, I hope you didn't take it that way but if you are being literal, I'm sure we can find a bigger pile of nonsense somewhere on this site.

I've said over and over again, I don't think it's that great an offering. I don't understand why people (apparently) feel the need to argue the point.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-27-2012 09:11
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The CarConnection
Meta Rating: 7.4/10
Bottom Line: The 2013 Acura ILX is a balanced, if compromised, entry-level/near-luxury sedan that combines fun and style for an affordable price.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-27-2012 22:44
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RSX
Profile for RSX
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews - My dealer has one.    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-28-2012 13:23
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Just went to my Acura dealer to pick up my free Avengers movie tickets and they have an ILX on the floor. They have to take it to the movie premier, so, no one is allowed to drive it or anything and it's not for sale.

I took a very thorough examination of the car, inside and out and I was impressed. If I didn't know that the Civic existed I would never have guessed it was based on the Honda. I couldn't find anything I didn't like except the storage bin hidden behind the auto shifter, which makes it difficult to get to. It's definitely a car on my shopping list when the 06' TSX is done.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 08:55
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MotorAuthority
At the end of the day with the ILX, we were left impressed with what Acura is offering for the price (the 2.4-liter model starts from $29,200--about $2,000 cheaper than the 1-Series, and as little as $25,900 for the base 2.0-liter model), but underwhelmed by what was almost-but-not-quite achieved with the suspension and performance tuning, and simply flummoxed by some of the options and packaging decisions.

If we had to choose an ILX for our own garage, it would be the 2.0-liter model, simply because it costs exactly the same as the 2.4-liter model once loaded up with the Technology Package and delivers 95 percent of the fun with better gas mileage. The Hybrid delivers improved gas mileage, but does so at the cost of any sense of fun or spirit while driving, even dipping a toe in the slightly-too-slow-for-comfort pool.

So has Acura hit that sweet spot that's been missing for most of a decade? Not quite, but it's very close.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 09:56
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TSX69 wrote:
MotorAuthority

If we had to choose an ILX for our own garage, it would be the 2.0-liter model, simply because it costs exactly the same as the 2.4-liter model once loaded up with the Technology Package


MotorAuthority needs to check their figures. The 2.0 with Technology Package is $31,400 and the 2.4 model is $29,400, with Technology Package not available on the 2.4.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 10:00
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QUOTE]TSX69 wrote:
MotorAuthority

If we had to choose an ILX for our own garage, it would be the 2.0-liter model, simply because it costs exactly the same as the 2.4-liter model once loaded up with the Technology Package


MotorAuthority needs to check their figures. The 2.0 with Technology Package is $31,400 and the 2.4 model is $29,200, with Technology Package not available on the 2.4.



A77
Profile for A77
Re: 1st Generation ILX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-30-2012 11:34
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They must have meant premium package - but even then you have to question what they are on about as the 2.4 is a manual and the 2.0 an auto and they are surely miles apart in the performance/fun factor.
 
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