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cksi1372
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
adrianchew wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
It is extremely clear that this car was developed primarily for the mainstream market (non-gear heads).
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First of all, they went after Gen Y, which aside from rich kids with parents who can afford to buy them anything they want (why buy an Acura when you can get an Audi?), are mostly poor and struggling. The product Acura produced, actually is semi appealing to a different demographic, single women, ages 30-50. |
Colin makes a few good points, but I have a few things to say about the Gen Y marketing and appeal to women.
Gen Y is a fairly large range, starting approximately 1982 (the people who basically became adults in 2000, hence the term "Millennial"). The oldest of Gen Y are in their late 20's and some are turning 30 this year.
Many are struggling. But there are others, particularly those with advanced degrees and professional careers, that have the disposable income to buy something like the ILX. Think doctors, engineers of all kinds, bankers, etc. who are maybe a couple years into their career. Maybe they want something nicer than the Corolla or Civic that they've been driving for years, but balk at spending for a Bimmer...
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I work with some of them (Gen Y's) in a professional career (investments/banking) making pretty darn good money and anecdotally known of them own an Acura that I can think of. The most recent purchase that I know of by one of the Gen Y's bought a Lexus RX (female). The guys usually talk/have Audi, Bimmer, or decent, reliable cars left over from college days...those are the smart one's. Ha. Some of them still live at home and hence can afford the Bimmer, etc., even though they are probably making more than most college grads.
I understand why Acura may want to go after this market, it's big, but their priorities seem to be anything but cars, according to a recent Yahoo story on Gen Y (can't find at the moment but was just there in the past 2 days). Many of them will also be coming into the labor markets lucky to find a job or with a decent salary and a crap load of college debt. My gf's son just finished and will probably have about $60k in debt and decided to go the military route. He also drives an 01 Civic and is usually much more into the next iPhone, Crossfit, etc., with an occasional comment on wanting a better car.
I think a hatch (a la RSX) would have been a better route to go for Acura here, instead of a sedan. The inevitable comparisons will always be to a Civic and for a generation that may not care too much for cars, anyway, they will probably go for a cheaper alternative from Honda (Civic) or another brand all together. Again, I understand Acura's want here, but think they have once again mis-read or got bad info from their market research. We'll see, but I'll stick to a bad outcome for the ILX.
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atomiclightbulb
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
A big problem at ToV is a number of people who claim to know what I and other members are thinking.
Examples below:
onetyme_sam wrote:
the way you defend this car is like you are almost trying to convince yourself you like this because how defensive you get. |
Great_Tubimi wrote:
If this car happened to be labeled honda with an "H" badge on a regular grille, you wouldn't be moved by it. |
Do people seriously believe they know what goes on in my mind? Are people trolling or just stupid?
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Beautiful. Steer the discussion to people's use of the word "you." You used the word "people" where you could have used the word "you." I used the word "you" where I could have used the word "people." The sentiment of either message remains the same.
Now I can see how a few bells and whistles can keep you from realizing how close the ILX is to a Civic.
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In the context of a reply to a post, "you" means the person being replied to, doesn't it?
I used "people" instead of "you" because I was referring to multiple persons, not just you or just onetyme_sam.
Back to the ILX:
It shares platform layout with the Civic. So does the CR-V. So does the RDX.
Do a "few bells and whistles" make the CR-V close to a Civic? An RDX?
Do a "few bells and whistles" make the TL close to an Accord? The MDX close to a Pilot?
If somebody buys an MDX do you mock them for having bought a Pilot with a "few bells and whistles"?
Who cares if vehicles are related? I think it is better to judge each vehicle on its individual merits, and not on its platform brethren. If the ZDX sucks, do we blame the MDX it is derived from?
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integrator
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This focus on "GenY" as a demographic is nonsense... just like they focused before on the "BabyBoomer" group before (and made the ZDX - AND THAT FAILED). Theres a continuum of people who can afford X $'s for a car in whatever the current economic climate and general customer expectation of features happens to be of the moment. btw - the problem with targeting one demographic is THEY CONTINUOUSLY CHANGE. The real issue is their stupidity (Mike Accavitti) in making a claim on the buyer target instead of including all that like that combination. Any marketing professional will tell you to use key words for a younger OR tech savy buyer, and those who are just young at heart - it doesn't alienate, it invites. So Am Honda/Acura Marketing and Management (once again) shows us a lack of professionalism permeates Torrance ! My suggestion to Acura- instead of simply changing demographics, maybe its time for a new approach. I wish Iwamura good luck cleaning up that mess. One firing ought to do it.
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NealX
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"Welcome to Our Acura store. This is our all-new Acura ILX sedan (emphasis on "Acura"), I'd like to show it to you though I see you are not within it's targeted demographic*, so may I direct you to this other, oh, wait..."
*As defined by the following (Acura's words):
Gen-Y Buyers
Who they are:
-Desire to Explore
-Ability & Network to Find Out About Products and Events Before others
Pinterest, yelp, Google Alerts
-Challenge Conventional Ideas/Methods Creating New Possibilities
Hobbies:
-Gourmet Cooking (broad tastes)
-Attending Music Festivals
-College & Pro Sporting Events
Where they live (Top DMAs):
New York
Los Angeles
Boston
Dallas
Philadelphia
Chicago
Pittsburgh
They want and need:
-Reward for all they've accomplished and their patience
-Sustain their quality of life
-Drawn to technology and it's ability to enrich and empower their lives
-Represents who they are in a subtle yet unmistakable way
I'd prefer to think that the ILX finds a broader appeal beyond this stated demographic (Sounds like a wild bunch!).
BTW, I'm really starting to become annoyed by this divisive term. I remember when we were united in driving spirit across all ages and backgrounds by the Power of Dreams.
All-One-Faith!
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Ganplosive
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adrianchew wrote:
Ganplosive wrote:
Going by your logic, why did the 1g TSX ever fly off of dealer lots?
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Price/performance. Gotta remember that 1g TSX came out at a time when the competition had far less engine output, and while it was never super fast, the TSX had decent enough acceleration. Plus it was based on the Euro Accord and had Accord underpinnings. K24 with good HP and torque that made the driving experience worthwhile.
The R20/auto is coming out with TSX-like pricing, with a WEAK WIMPY Civic-like engine, no double wishbones, sure it has some fancy shocks, but it ain't gonna handle like the 1st gen TSX, just rides smoother... the 1g TSX had the fun to drive factor. The R20/auto? Looking by reviews, its a comfy ride but not quick... if you ask me, it sounds more like a Corolla than a Civic of old even, a Corolla with a close to Lexus-like ride quality.
The K24/auto will make a real difference here. But it would start looking really silly, I mean, ILX, TSX, same engine?! Which is why the lineup is too busy. Should have just made a new TSX a bit smaller, a new TL a bit smaller, and shrink the RLX a bit too. 3 sedans is plenty. Introduce a small coupe/hatch as the starter, and make it sporty!
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True, but the TSX always had rebadging hanging over its head. People were complaining about the TL sharing the Accord platform, well the TSX was straight up badge engineering. Great car, but never enough to separate the Honda and Acura distinction (to this day, still sharing badges). The CSX was guilty of such badge engineering as well, and I'm curious Canadian TOVers, did the CSX sell at all in Canada despite being literally the same car as the US Civic?
Here this car shares none of the same interior pieces nor any of the sheet metals, and the underlying power-train was "re-tuned" and suspension reworked a little. Almost none of the driving impressions I read said anything about this car feeling like a Civic, in fact 9 outta 10 even came out to make a point that this car doesn't even feel like a civic in either build quality or driving feel. I'm just wondering why there are folks here still trying to convince everyone else it's a civic. That's really boiling down to one's own opinions
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HondaFan1990
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S600=Dream wrote:
I remember how much everyone loved/loves the Integra.
Waitasec, wasn't that an Overpriced Civic as well?!
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Someone else sees it how I do. The Integra was an overpriced Civic as well. But it offered less in terms of refinement as the ILX does over the Civic. The Integra really didn't hid its Civic roots.....look inside and there was Civic written all over it. But, that fact will forever be passed over because the Integra will go down in history as "the best thing since sliced bread and cheese" by some and the ILX will be a "flop".
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NSXforever
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onetyme_sam wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
onetyme_sam wrote:
THATS WHAT I SAID! SCREW THE PRIUS AND ITS SUPERIOR FUEL ECONOMY AND HATCHBACK VERSATILITY AND MEDIOCRE INTERIOR. FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO COMMUTE AND DRIVE A PRIUS. I GOT 2 WORDS FOR YOU ALL.
PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYEEEED OUT
I WANT A SEXY ACURA CIVIC. with nicer interior and exterior............than a honda civic |
The ILX may be based on the Civic platform, but it's fairly obvious that it is not the same car. The exterior and interior designs are vastly different, and the ILX has much more standard and optional content.
This is not a re-badge like the Canadian Acura CSX was. If you recall, the CSX had pretty much the same exterior and interior as the 8G USDM Civic, with some minor changes.
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still a civic. a nicer one at it. thats like saying a hs is not a nicer version of a corolla. its a nice hybrid corolla. its like saying the es isn't a nice version of a camry. same as back in the day the i30 wasn't a dolled up maxima. or a escalade isn't a dolled up yukon, or tahoe.
the video of the guy driving the ilx the 2.4 ilx on youtube will have the same face as joe smith test driving the 2.4 civic si when it first came out.
if honda could differentiate the civic to the ilx as they did to the civic and integra of yore, then maybe i can agree. this is a way for the boy racer to grow up and get a mature civic.
i am not living in canada so i do not care about the csx. but why dont you defend the fact that the csx looked better? jdm headlights and tailights and had to have different bumpers and truck lid and that justifies the price. and leather wasn't an option. honda can modify a car and make it look different, put different content in it but in the end its still a civic. people do it to their own cars all the time (make cars look different) and its still the same car, just may perform or look different.
although i do not fully agree with this car, it is a start. i can applaud acura for trying to start an entry level car but they gave up on it back in 2002. i think if honda continued the integra and not given up on it, they could have themselves a fantastic entry level car that would have had over 20 years of refinement and actually can say that its not a nicer civic. because i think most can agree that an integra was not a civic.
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FYI the HS has nothing to do with the Corolla. Its based on the Avensis in Europe which fights the Euro Accord aka TSX here. The HS starts at $37,000. It shares nothing with the Corolla.
Its obvious the ILX is not a CSX blatant rebadge but their changes are simply not enough in this super competitive environment when Kias and Hyundais have turn signals in the mirror, heated rear seats and other goodies.
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sugaki
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HondaFan1990 wrote:
Someone else sees it how I do. The Integra was an overpriced Civic as well. But it offered less in terms of refinement as the ILX does over the Civic.
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So which Civic had the same engine/performance as a Integra GSR? None. Which Civic had the same engine/performance as an ITR? None. People didn't see the Integra as the luxury alternative, it was more seen as the performance alternative. Did affluent professionals lust after the Integra? No, it was boy-racers who wanted to put giant exhaust tips on them. Very different niche than the ILX.
The two main supposed things the ILX will offer over the Civic is technology and luxury. Except:
1) Technology is only playing catch-up. Korean entry-level cars (Veloster, Elantra etc) come pretty decked out with available options.
2) Acura has never done luxury well. Sit in an Audi, even an A3, and any Acura... doesn't compare.
The only other possible reason people would buy this car is impulse--if styling execution draws them in. But this design is so conservatively non-offensive that that won't happen either.
There's no strong appeal for this car. It's a car destined to failure.
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CarPhreakD
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S600=Dream wrote:
$24,675. That's what a Civic Si costs.
$29,200. That's what an ILX with a 2.4 costs.
That's a difference of $4,525 dollars.
That's the only ILX I'd own, and $4500 bucks is a drop in the bucket at the end of the day for a MUCH nicer car with a shitton more features.
Also, ehh, the CT is 30 grand to begin with (I've seen them for 35+ grand at the dealers) and real world gas mileage for the thing hasn't held up. It's also terrible to drive.
FWIW.
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That might be true. However, no LSD. Which means no sale.
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CarPhreakD
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Honestly, if you were to simply look objectively at the luxury retail space, I think the ILX has the chance to snag a couple of potential customers.
However, the car's existence is NOT doing Acura any favours in its "near luxury" aspirations. This is bottom of the barrel as far as bottom goes, and specs alone it's not even that favourable vs. the Buick Verano. Will it offer a better driving experience? More features? Does it have the gotta-have-it factor?
More grating to me is that Acura is supposed to present something resembling "Smart Luxury". I actually felt that the RLX actually fit this bill, as it has what seems like a very potent hybrid powertrain and a huge level of technology, truly offering something different from any other competitor out there while at least bringing an air of responsibility. But the ILX is even simpler in construction and base engine tech than the (soon to be outgoing) TSX. It does not have any special defining features from any competitor, and 150hp might have been excusable for an entry level engine if the car still offered a modicum of performance and/or fuel economy... it has NEITHER. The enthusiast ILX is even worse because it cannot be combined with the tech pack and does not have an LSD (the most baffling decision I've ever seen, when the lesser Civic Si has it and it arguably needs it as a FWD "performance" trim vehicle).
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integrator
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sugaki wrote:
HondaFan1990 wrote:
Someone else sees it how I do. The Integra was an overpriced Civic as well. But it offered less in terms of refinement as the ILX does over the Civic.
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So which Civic had the same engine/performance as a Integra GSR? None. Which Civic had the same engine/performance as an ITR? None. People didn't see the Integra as the luxury alternative, it was more seen as the performance alternative. Did affluent professionals lust after the Integra? No, it was boy-racers who wanted to put giant exhaust tips on them. Very different niche than the ILX.
The two main supposed things the ILX will offer over the Civic is technology and luxury. Except:
1) Technology is only playing catch-up. Korean entry-level cars (Veloster, Elantra etc) come pretty decked out with available options.
2) Acura has never done luxury well. Sit in an Audi, even an A3, and any Acura... doesn't compare.
The only other possible reason people would buy this car is impulse--if styling execution draws them in. But this design is so conservatively non-offensive that that won't happen either.
There's no strong appeal for this car. It's a car destined to failure.
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The only part I'd like to disagree with you (Sugaki) on was that the G3 Integra DID come in other flavors... the LS, GS, SE which were aimed at the young professional types. They also had a unique engine, more features that were leading the segment at that time, and it drove great. So not all the Integras were boyracers. But they sure had a different mission and character than the Civics, and were more than an inch of size difference. A little more expensive, a little more exclusive to own than a Honda. These days, Acura likes to call them boyracers - its convenient in spinning their particular POV even though its all lip service and meaningless posturing by Mendel and his lackeys.
I don't care if the Civic and ILX use the same platform. That's just common sense anymore. The issue really is: very close in size, same engines/tranny mixes- the 2.0L is merely a longer throw version of the 1.8L, and this car essentially picks up exactly where the Civic EX-L leaves off... with a very similar mission. In 94, The G3 Integra had a very distinct mission from the Civic. I'm not sure I'm seeing that here with the ILX. I agree that Acura has never figured out what luxury meant in the context of their cars, and has resulted in the current confusion they find themselves in product placement. It left the door open for a opportunistic worm to wiggle in and damage the company with his branding expertise. I don't think the ILX will be a failure, but it doubt it will see 40k unit/yr success.... just like the Crosstour, the ZDX, and most of the NAm designed cars since 2008 haven't (when Mendels influenced vehicles began cycling in, starting w/ model yr 2009). Not failures; but not the big winners to which Honda/Acura had become accustomed.
SIDENOTE: I drove to the local Acura dealer today. All the TSX's (about a dozen) were sold, except one black 4dr. The three new AWD 2013 RDX's w/Advance Pkgs are still sitting unsold by the front door. All after just over 2 weeks on the lot - arrived at same time as the TSX allocation. For a brand new vehicle offering, these should be sold. What's wrong with this picture?
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integrator
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Honestly, if you were to simply look objectively at the luxury retail space, I think the ILX has the chance to snag a couple of potential customers.
However, the car's existence is NOT doing Acura any favours in its "near luxury" aspirations. This is bottom of the barrel as far as bottom goes, and specs alone it's not even that favourable vs. the Buick Verano. Will it offer a better driving experience? More features? Does it have the gotta-have-it factor?
More grating to me is that Acura is supposed to present something resembling "Smart Luxury". I actually felt that the RLX actually fit this bill, as it has what seems like a very potent hybrid powertrain and a huge level of technology, truly offering something different from any other competitor out there while at least bringing an air of responsibility. But the ILX is even simpler in construction and base engine tech than the (soon to be outgoing) TSX. It does not have any special defining features from any competitor, and 150hp might have been excusable for an entry level engine if the car still offered a modicum of performance and/or fuel economy... it has NEITHER. The enthusiast ILX is even worse because it cannot be combined with the tech pack and does not have an LSD (the most baffling decision I've ever seen, when the lesser Civic Si has it and it arguably needs it as a FWD "performance" trim vehicle).
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Well put... its not a bad car, its just not quite right.
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HondaFan1990
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sugaki wrote:
HondaFan1990 wrote:
Someone else sees it how I do. The Integra was an overpriced Civic as well. But it offered less in terms of refinement as the ILX does over the Civic.
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So which Civic had the same engine/performance as a Integra GSR? None. Which Civic had the same engine/performance as an ITR? None. People didn't see the Integra as the luxury alternative, it was more seen as the performance alternative. Did affluent professionals lust after the Integra? No, it was boy-racers who wanted to put giant exhaust tips on them. Very different niche than the ILX.
The two main supposed things the ILX will offer over the Civic is technology and luxury. Except:
1) Technology is only playing catch-up. Korean entry-level cars (Veloster, Elantra etc) come pretty decked out with available options.
2) Acura has never done luxury well. Sit in an Audi, even an A3, and any Acura... doesn't compare.
The only other possible reason people would buy this car is impulse--if styling execution draws them in. But this design is so conservatively non-offensive that that won't happen either.
There's no strong appeal for this car. It's a car destined to failure.
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I hate when people say their opinion as if it's fact or as if everyone feels the same way. This is a big problem on here. For you, the car may not work and fail. For you, Acura may have never done luxury well. The design is conservative for you. For you. That's not for everyone else. Just because you feel that way doesn't mean we all share that.
The Integra was an overpriced Civic with a performance mindset. ILX is an overpriced Civic with a luxury mindset. Boy racers looked at the Integra, others will look at the ILX. There are a ton of reasons someone would buy the ILX, even if it's not apparent to you. Buy what you like. Everything ain't for everybody. You don't like the ILX. OK. Next. Move on with life. Someone else might feel it's prefect for them. Saying that someone would only buy it off of an impulse is assuming things on so many different levels. It could be the size, the look of the car, the way it drives, etc. etc. There is never a "best" car regardless of what magazines say in comparos or tell us is "best". It's only what is best for the person buying it and how the person feels about what they're buying. Contrary to a lot of people on here feeling the Integra was just THEE ULTIMATE, it wasn't for everyone. It wasn't for my dad in 1994. He went to buy one, saw the price and said the Civic was practically the same and that came home with him. The Integra, in all of its wonderfulness, stayed right on the Acura lot. It wasn't good for him. Someone else probably came up and saw the Integra and said "That's mine"and took it home. Different strokes for different folks. Why can't people understand that concept??? Or do people understand but still say whatever just to do so?
The Integra is dead. Gone. Not coming back. The ILX is here and alive. Those I can buy new, the Intergra not so much. Everyone keeps talking of the Integra and what it was and then basing the ILX off of what that car was. The ILX can't even come into the world without comparisons to a car that's been dead and gone for 10+ years. It's as if people want it to fail just because it's not what THEY want. Shouldn't we be hoping the ILX is a success for Honda? Shouldn't we as fans want to see them succeed? The ILX failing will just give people more reason to bitch about everything they've already bitched about 15 million times already. Sheesh. Some positivity doesn't hurt, people.
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lexusgs
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NSXforever wrote:
onetyme_sam wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
onetyme_sam wrote:
THATS WHAT I SAID! SCREW THE PRIUS AND ITS SUPERIOR FUEL ECONOMY AND HATCHBACK VERSATILITY AND MEDIOCRE INTERIOR. FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO COMMUTE AND DRIVE A PRIUS. I GOT 2 WORDS FOR YOU ALL.
PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYEEEED OUT
I WANT A SEXY ACURA CIVIC. with nicer interior and exterior............than a honda civic |
The ILX may be based on the Civic platform, but it's fairly obvious that it is not the same car. The exterior and interior designs are vastly different, and the ILX has much more standard and optional content.
This is not a re-badge like the Canadian Acura CSX was. If you recall, the CSX had pretty much the same exterior and interior as the 8G USDM Civic, with some minor changes.
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still a civic. a nicer one at it. thats like saying a hs is not a nicer version of a corolla. its a nice hybrid corolla. its like saying the es isn't a nice version of a camry. same as back in the day the i30 wasn't a dolled up maxima. or a escalade isn't a dolled up yukon, or tahoe.
the video of the guy driving the ilx the 2.4 ilx on youtube will have the same face as joe smith test driving the 2.4 civic si when it first came out.
if honda could differentiate the civic to the ilx as they did to the civic and integra of yore, then maybe i can agree. this is a way for the boy racer to grow up and get a mature civic.
i am not living in canada so i do not care about the csx. but why dont you defend the fact that the csx looked better? jdm headlights and tailights and had to have different bumpers and truck lid and that justifies the price. and leather wasn't an option. honda can modify a car and make it look different, put different content in it but in the end its still a civic. people do it to their own cars all the time (make cars look different) and its still the same car, just may perform or look different.
although i do not fully agree with this car, it is a start. i can applaud acura for trying to start an entry level car but they gave up on it back in 2002. i think if honda continued the integra and not given up on it, they could have themselves a fantastic entry level car that would have had over 20 years of refinement and actually can say that its not a nicer civic. because i think most can agree that an integra was not a civic.
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FYI the HS has nothing to do with the Corolla. Its based on the Avensis in Europe which fights the Euro Accord aka TSX here. The HS starts at $37,000. It shares nothing with the Corolla.
Its obvious the ILX is not a CSX blatant rebadge but their changes are simply not enough in this super competitive environment when Kias and Hyundais have turn signals in the mirror, heated rear seats and other goodies.
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You are wrong again.
The Avensis was never a competitor to the Euro Accord/TSX as it never had the performance, power, luxury, sportiness, or build quality to challenge it. The Euro Accord is a higher priced higher end sportier sedan that competes/competed with smaller entry level sporty luxury sedans like Rover 600(it was joint developed with it in the 90's), Audi A4, base 3 series, Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS200, etc. The Euro Accord has had 4 wheel steering, LSD, high performance/tuned 200hp+ Euro R models, etc to compete with higher end sportier models from more expensive brands.
The Avensis was never meant to compete with sporty smaller lux branded cars like the Euro Accord, the Avensis is built and priced to compete with regular European family sedans like the Mazda6, Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Vectra/Insignia, etc. The Scion Tc is based on a Avensis platform so there is nothing special or upscale about that platform. The Avensis platform is very similar to the Corolla platform, it is just a little stiffer and can accommodate a larger body, a Avensis is not upscale or sporty enough to be able to be sold in a luxury brand lineup where the Euro Accord is.
The Lexus HS has failed and is being discontinued in less then 2 years on the market where the Acura TSX is popular and has sold well in both generations.
You say Kias and Hyundais have heated rear seats as a criticism of the ILX but the Lexus IS, ES, HS and other models don't have heated rear seats either, neither do Camry's or Avalons so what is you point? Are you going to also criticize Toyota and Lexus for not offering that feature in many of their models too?
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Great_Tubimi
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
In the context of a reply to a post, "you" means the person being replied to, doesn't it?
I used "people" instead of "you" because I was referring to multiple persons, not just you or just onetyme_sam.
Back to the ILX:
It shares platform layout with the Civic. So does the CR-V. So does the RDX.
Do a "few bells and whistles" make the CR-V close to a Civic? An RDX?
Do a "few bells and whistles" make the TL close to an Accord? The MDX close to a Pilot?
If somebody buys an MDX do you mock them for having bought a Pilot with a "few bells and whistles"?
Who cares if vehicles are related? I think it is better to judge each vehicle on its individual merits, and not on its platform brethren. If the ZDX sucks, do we blame the MDX it is derived from?
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I'm not going to breakdown reading comprehension on the internet for you (anyone). That's a struggle you (people) will have to deal with on your (their) own. Maybe it's a cultural disconnect, but I just don't want "you" to sue an ad company for slander because they put "What you've been waiting for..." on a billboard for a product "you" don't like.
The RDX is closer to the CR-V than it used to be, but it still offers an engine upgrade. The RDX had Turbo and SH-AWD, but in typical Acura fashion they botched it at launch with a weak design and poor marketing. The V-6 and sheet metal do enough to make it distinct.
TL to the Accord? Really? Again, take a look at the engine and drivetrain choices. TLs also have much more distinct sheet metal, but was overdone for the current generation. But let me know when you find an Accord that offers 305hp and AWD of any kind.
Pilot to MDX? SH-AWD? Active dampers? 3.7L V-6?
The ILX simply seems like a pointless sidestep for Acura. If they won't at least shore up the driving experience, then they are pretty much wasting time. Of course it will handle well. The 1990 Accord I loved handled well. The TSX I currently drive handles well. The Ridgeline gets compliments for handling well. Same goes for the fit.
The power train upgrades for the base ILX don't do much (10hp bump to 150hp) and the 2.4 is only appealing because Acura designed a gap that makes the 6MT only available on the TSX SE.
It's not just me who sees it this way. But, of course, there are some people who see the ILX for it's differences. That's life. The point is that I don't see any genuine excitement for this vehicle. Read some of the comments out there.
http://www.google.com/search?q=ilx+civic
The world is much bigger than "you" (or me).
http://www.wheels.ca/article/806454
basically just a civic
I work at the alliston plant this is basically just a honda civic with added features. In fact many of the parts going on the car are the same as the civic. Not worth the extra money
Submitted by dh12 at 9:35 PM Sunday, April 22 2012
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Good point joesmith86. Acura has nice cars but what are they trying to be and who are they trying to compete with? Rebadge the TL and upcoming NSX to Honda and gas the Acura nameplate.
Submitted by Hawk17 at 5:49 PM Saturday, April 21 2012
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Acura have missed the boat again........
Acura has understyled,the vehicle again, the back end still shouts "Civic" and the engine/gearbox selection is no better than the current Civics/CSXs in that there is no automatic available for the 2.4L 200hp sedan whereas the opposition has such choices. Not bad but not for me and I own a CSX!
Submitted by hurricane ace at 5:26 PM Saturday, April 21 2012
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There's that funny front end again....
If I didn't know any better I'd swear the lower front end came from the late Oldsmobile Aurora. Sadly, even though the Squid beak was trimmed back somewhat; the overall front end look is hugly. I'll pass.
Submitted by Chollie at 11:38 PM Friday, April 20 2012
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Hurry up and fold the Acura brand
What kind of brand is acura supposed to be nowadays? They're not even mentioned in the same sentence as other luxury brands: bmw, audi, merc. Everything Acura has put out in the last 3-4 years has been so ugly and lacks any kind of driving emotion to even consider buying. A 2015 Acura NSX...really?... who cares? Is their plan to build an underpowered overpriced supercar (like the last one) that nobody cares about and expect that to help their hurting sales. Even if the supercar did turn out to be good (unlikely) how will that influence people to buy their everyday cars?
Submitted by joesmith86 at 8:20 PM Friday, April 20 2012
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And these are the Canadians talking.
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atomiclightbulb
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Great_Tubimi wrote:
The RDX ... The V-6 and sheet metal do enough to make it distinct.
TL to the Accord? Really? Again, take a look at the engine and drivetrain choices. TLs also have much more distinct sheet metal, but was overdone for the current generation. But let me know when you find an Accord that offers 305hp and AWD of any kind.
Pilot to MDX? SH-AWD? Active dampers? 3.7L V-6? |
The ILX has its own sheet metal and interior completely distinct from the Civic. Just like the RDX, TL, and MDX have different sheet metal and interior from the CR-V, Accord, and Pilot.
The ILX has a 2.0L R-series engine in place of the 1.8L R-series found in the Civic. The 2.0L not only has more displacement, but it has a balancer shaft and I believe a better intake manifold as well. The 5AT transmission has paddle shifters, which the Civic does not.
How is this different from what Honda does with the Accord and the TL? The Accord uses a 3.5L VCM J-series engine. The TL uses either a 3.5L or 3.7L J-series engine, but is set to use performance VTEC rather than cylinder de-activation. Same thing with the Pilot and MDX. Both use J-series V6 engines. The 3.7L block is basically the same as the 3.5L block. It just has lightly more bore and stroke. The Pilot has VTM-4, which cannot torque vector like SH-AWD.
You say that one of the differences between Pilot and MDX are the active dampers. The ILX has 2-stage reactive dampers that the Civic does not have.
So what you are saying is that unique sheet metal, similar engine families, and better suspension make the TL, RDX, and MDX different enough from their Honda counterparts, but the same isn't true of the ILX. This makes absolutely no sense to me. The Acura vehicles are a combination of different sheet metal, same family engines with different settings, and some upgrades to different systems, like VTM-4 -> SH-AWD. The ILX is the same. Different sheet metal/interior, some upgrades to systems.
The only trim line where I might agree with you is in the 2.4L ILX. The engine and transmission are the same as the Civic Si. Neal even said in another thread that they drive fairly similarly. But I believe he also said that the 2.0L ILX was pretty distinct from the mainstream Civics.
| But, of course, there are some people who see the ILX for it's differences. That's life. The point is that I don't see any genuine excitement for this vehicle. |
Well, we can agree on this at least. The ILX is not "exciting", but I don't believe Acura intended it to be "exciting". Again, Jon Ikeda himself said this was "no boy racer". He very clearly defined the ILX as a more stately vehicle for the professional customer.
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DCR
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Young professionals?
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/04/acura-ilx-honda-civic-less-expensive-on-sale-may-22-price-26795-/1?AID=4992781&PID=4177996&SID=1m3fjf4q8upha
| The automaker says it needs the smaller, lower-price model to attract younger buyers who've grown up in affluent homes and don't want to settle for mainstream car brands, but can't afford typical luxury car prices. |
Heaven forbid these poor kids would have to "settle" for a mainstream brand.
Acura minds actually sat in a room and thought this was a good approach? Would a silver spoon kid shell out for a new $26k+ Acura when the BMW and Lexus CPO market is so vast?
Question is...do mommy and daddy have Acura in the garage?
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CarmB
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Colin wrote:
adrianchew wrote:
The ILX is a failure here, as far as attracting old Integra/RSX owners back to Acura ownership. But then again, we already know that the management has decided this crowd isn't worth it... even though its just plain stupid business sense to disregard past owners.
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This makes no sense. That generation of owners are NOT buying cars like the ILX anymore. They have families and have moved on to SUVs or Minivans. Those of that generation that are single or with no kids have moved on to more powerful RWD cars from BMW, Infiniti or Lexus. So yes, Acura has not provided for those buyers because there are no RWD cars, but they have met many of those clients needs with the van and SUV offerings.
The ILX is for the next generation of entry level buyers. Kinda like where we were 20 years ago. It remains to be seen if it will fulfill these buyers' needs, but I think it has a chance of meeting some people's expectations even it it excludes us on TOV.
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The ideal model for Acura to add to the mix would be a five-door hatch based on the ILX aimed at performance, as in offered with both an automatic and a manual stick, coming with the 2.4L as standard.
As for this car being aimed at entry level buyers, I disagree. Honda is suggesting that is the logic of offering this car at this time but I think something else is happening. As fuel prices climb, more fuel-efficient cars are going to be coveted by a larger percentage of consumers. The ILX does have a weight advantage over the TSX and that means better fuel economy. Either you gain simply by having a lighter car even using a similar motor or you can downsize to a motor like the 2.0L without too drastic a drop in performance. The product line makes sense. If you're not looking for spirited performance but want an upscale package, the base ILX does the trick. I have a similar vehicle in the form of a 2008 CSX and while the car isn't a rocket, it is by no means underpowered for typical daily driving. If you want performance, the 2.4L mated to the manual stick in a car weighing 500 lbs. less than the TSX gets you there far more effectively than any version of the current TSX.
I think Honda is not looking to draw in first-time buyers so much as offering a car that in some regards makes more sense now than the TSX. The key is delivering a car that feels like it's not a drop in quality over the TSX but delivers that quality in a more efficient package. It wasn't that big a deal five years ago but times have changed. The ILX is a better fit for changed circumstances because customers' priorities are not the same now as they were when the TSX first came to market nearly a decade ago.
For the ILX to succeed, though, it has to compare favourably to the TSX. At the very least it needs to come across as roughly its equal in most of the areas that matter and better in terms of cost of ownership.
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NealX
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Sounds like a Fantasy Factory 5-door should be "developed" then!
I've got the wagon/touring, coupe and 3-door done, and I made a Civic 5-door some time back (can't find the link) so I guess it's inevitable...
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integrator
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I hope they gave themselves bonuses for that one! In 3 years, I expect the brain trusts in branding and marketing to instigate another directional shift for Acura... perhaps marketed to former catholic school girls. There are bound to be lots of those. The seating fabric pleated green plaid, an alcohol breath sensor for the ignition, and phallic-shaped controls and shift levers....with extra room in the backseat for the rhythm method.
IWAMURA!!! HELP!!!
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NealX
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Please remember I said 2011 Si Sedan!
atomiclightbulb wrote:
Great_Tubimi wrote:
The RDX ... The V-6 and sheet metal do enough to make it distinct.
TL to the Accord? Really? Again, take a look at the engine and drivetrain choices. TLs also have much more distinct sheet metal, but was overdone for the current generation. But let me know when you find an Accord that offers 305hp and AWD of any kind.
Pilot to MDX? SH-AWD? Active dampers? 3.7L V-6? |
The only trim line where I might agree with you is in the 2.4L ILX. The engine and transmission are the same as the Civic Si. Neal even said in another thread that they drive fairly similarly. But I believe he also said that the 2.0L ILX was pretty distinct from the mainstream Civics.
| But, of course, there are some people who see the ILX for it's differences. That's life. The point is that I don't see any genuine excitement for this vehicle. |
Well, we can agree on this at least. The ILX is not "exciting", but I don't believe Acura intended it to be "exciting". Again, Jon Ikeda himself said this was "no boy racer". He very clearly defined the ILX as a more stately vehicle for the professional customer.
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sugaki
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DCR wrote:
Heaven forbid these poor kids would have to "settle" for a mainstream brand.
Acura minds actually sat in a room and thought this was a good approach? Would a silver spoon kid shell out for a new $26k+ Acura when the BMW and Lexus CPO market is so vast?
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Honda's top brass are utterly delusional. Acura isn't a "mainstream" car brand? Huh? And $26k for warmed over Civic? Consumers aren't as stupid as Honda thinks. Yes same platform doesn't mean same car, but when the specs, wheelbase and fuel economy are so similar, it's pretty transparent.
Speaking of delusion, apparently Honda is hoping to sell 35k of these a year, lol. Good luck selling 15k of these duds. You can get a more fully equipped Ford Focus Titanium for cheaper, a VW GLI with DSG and 200hp for $23k. Amazing how you can spend $29k for a 150-horsepower car. Management heads need to roll.
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Hondarulez
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sugaki wrote:
DCR wrote:
Heaven forbid these poor kids would have to "settle" for a mainstream brand.
Acura minds actually sat in a room and thought this was a good approach? Would a silver spoon kid shell out for a new $26k+ Acura when the BMW and Lexus CPO market is so vast?
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Honda's top brass are utterly delusional. Acura isn't a "mainstream" car brand? Huh? And $26k for warmed over Civic? Consumers aren't as stupid as Honda thinks. Yes same platform doesn't mean same car, but when the specs, wheelbase and fuel economy are so similar, it's pretty transparent.
Speaking of delusion, apparently Honda is hoping to sell 35k of these a year, lol. Good luck selling 15k of these duds. You can get a more fully equipped Ford Focus Titanium for cheaper, a VW GLI with DSG and 200hp for $23k. Amazing how you can spend $29k for a 150-horsepower car. Management heads need to roll.
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And yet people would pay well over $40k for a warmed over camry (ES350).
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sugaki
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Hondarulez wrote:
And yet people would pay well over $40k for a warmed over camry (ES350).
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Covered this before. Lexus does luxury better than Acura. Acura never pulled off luxury well, which is why the ILX is so ho-hum.
Plus they're targeting a pickier audience with Gen-yers. The 80-year olds that buy a ES don't care about RWD or DSG or tech. Granted I think the ES is a waste of money, but it's positioned well. Trying to fool a gen-Yer to buy this fail car is laughable. Ironically, I think older (40+) year old people would buy this car, since it's competing against the Buick Verano.
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330R
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CarmB wrote:
The ideal model for Acura to add to the mix would be a five-door hatch based on the ILX aimed at performance, as in offered with a manual stick, coming with the Mugen 2.2L as standard. |
Fixed for YESSSSSness
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Hondarulez
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sugaki wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
And yet people would pay well over $40k for a warmed over camry (ES350).
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Covered this before. Lexus does luxury better than Acura. Acura never pulled off luxury well, which is why the ILX is so ho-hum.
Plus they're targeting a pickier audience with Gen-yers. The 80-year olds that buy a ES don't care about RWD or DSG or tech. Granted I think the ES is a waste of money, but it's positioned well. Trying to fool a gen-Yer to buy this fail car is laughable. Ironically, I think older (40+) year old people would buy this car, since it's competing against the Buick Verano.
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This would be true if this was just the CSX. However, it seems to me Acura went much further with the ILX then just to rebadge the Civic with minor changes.
You are right, Acura never really pulled off luxury well. They were actually quite good whent he brand was launch. But they screwed themselves up with the 1g RL, 1g TL, 1g SLX, 1g CL, etc. They recovered by going with the "value-luxury" theme - 2g TL, 1g MDX, then 1g TSX, 3g TL, etc. Unfortunately, value-luxury doesn't work that well for brand reputation.
With the above said, to me, Acura is has gone much further with the ILX. Obviously, the ILX is no longer a value-luxury vehicle, as clearly shown by its price tag. It will definitely take a while to convince people that Acura is no longer a value-luxury brand (as we can see from your comments, for example). However, the exterior styling looks way more unscale than the CSX. The interior styling is pretty much from the TL, along with quality that can match the TSX. I think this is a good start.
The real issue here are the powertrain choices. However, as we all know, these engine choices are only temporary, and will be replaced by ED engines as soon as they are out (no need to wait till MMC).
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CarPhreakD
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Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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atomiclightbulb
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring. |
Huh?
If I put the ILX next to a Civic, they don't look anything alike. The proportions are different. From the driver's seat, the dash and controls don't even look related. Yes, the powertrains are similar, but other than that I don't see many similarities.
Don't knock the 6G Civic!!! It had double wishbones up front! (I joke...)
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NealX
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Right, I see a lot of people defending the ILX, making the point that other Acuras are also platform prostitutes. That's true, however, the ILX makes no effort to even hide this.
The RDX (and I have problems with that CUV too), TL, TSX and even the current RL do a much better job offering better equipment levels and don't look anything like their platform-mates. The ILX just looks like a Civic, it even reminds me of the 6th gen sedan in terms of boring.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. I had the black 2.4 parked right next to a new black Si Sedan for several minutes, climbing back in forth between the two, multiples times. Visual (surface) similarities are essentially non-existent.
No effort? The ILX is ALL about masking its Civic origins. Still, that doesn't make me a "defender."
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NSXforever
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lexusgs wrote:
NSXforever wrote:
onetyme_sam wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
onetyme_sam wrote:
THATS WHAT I SAID! SCREW THE PRIUS AND ITS SUPERIOR FUEL ECONOMY AND HATCHBACK VERSATILITY AND MEDIOCRE INTERIOR. FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO COMMUTE AND DRIVE A PRIUS. I GOT 2 WORDS FOR YOU ALL.
PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYEEEED OUT
I WANT A SEXY ACURA CIVIC. with nicer interior and exterior............than a honda civic |
The ILX may be based on the Civic platform, but it's fairly obvious that it is not the same car. The exterior and interior designs are vastly different, and the ILX has much more standard and optional content.
This is not a re-badge like the Canadian Acura CSX was. If you recall, the CSX had pretty much the same exterior and interior as the 8G USDM Civic, with some minor changes.
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still a civic. a nicer one at it. thats like saying a hs is not a nicer version of a corolla. its a nice hybrid corolla. its like saying the es isn't a nice version of a camry. same as back in the day the i30 wasn't a dolled up maxima. or a escalade isn't a dolled up yukon, or tahoe.
the video of the guy driving the ilx the 2.4 ilx on youtube will have the same face as joe smith test driving the 2.4 civic si when it first came out.
if honda could differentiate the civic to the ilx as they did to the civic and integra of yore, then maybe i can agree. this is a way for the boy racer to grow up and get a mature civic.
i am not living in canada so i do not care about the csx. but why dont you defend the fact that the csx looked better? jdm headlights and tailights and had to have different bumpers and truck lid and that justifies the price. and leather wasn't an option. honda can modify a car and make it look different, put different content in it but in the end its still a civic. people do it to their own cars all the time (make cars look different) and its still the same car, just may perform or look different.
although i do not fully agree with this car, it is a start. i can applaud acura for trying to start an entry level car but they gave up on it back in 2002. i think if honda continued the integra and not given up on it, they could have themselves a fantastic entry level car that would have had over 20 years of refinement and actually can say that its not a nicer civic. because i think most can agree that an integra was not a civic.
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FYI the HS has nothing to do with the Corolla. Its based on the Avensis in Europe which fights the Euro Accord aka TSX here. The HS starts at $37,000. It shares nothing with the Corolla.
Its obvious the ILX is not a CSX blatant rebadge but their changes are simply not enough in this super competitive environment when Kias and Hyundais have turn signals in the mirror, heated rear seats and other goodies.
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You are wrong again.
The Avensis was never a competitor to the Euro Accord/TSX as it never had the performance, power, luxury, sportiness, or build quality to challenge it. The Euro Accord is a higher priced higher end sportier sedan that competes/competed with smaller entry level sporty luxury sedans like Rover 600(it was joint developed with it in the 90's), Audi A4, base 3 series, Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS200, etc. The Euro Accord has had 4 wheel steering, LSD, high performance/tuned 200hp+ Euro R models, etc to compete with higher end sportier models from more expensive brands.
The Avensis was never meant to compete with sporty smaller lux branded cars like the Euro Accord, the Avensis is built and priced to compete with regular European family sedans like the Mazda6, Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Vectra/Insignia, etc. The Scion Tc is based on a Avensis platform so there is nothing special or upscale about that platform. The Avensis platform is very similar to the Corolla platform, it is just a little stiffer and can accommodate a larger body, a Avensis is not upscale or sporty enough to be able to be sold in a luxury brand lineup where the Euro Accord is.
The Lexus HS has failed and is being discontinued in less then 2 years on the market where the Acura TSX is popular and has sold well in both generations.
You say Kias and Hyundais have heated rear seats as a criticism of the ILX but the Lexus IS, ES, HS and other models don't have heated rear seats either, neither do Camry's or Avalons so what is you point? Are you going to also criticize Toyota and Lexus for not offering that feature in many of their models too?
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Do you even know any country in Europe? You are 100% wrong here are the comparisons comparing the Avensis to the Euro Accord.
LMFAO
FYI BOTH the HS and TSX are getting canned. :D
Here are multiple comparisons below where either the Euro Accord battles the Avensis head on or they are included against others.
Hilarious :D
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests/233557/toyota_avensis_vs_honda_accord.html
http://www.promotor.ro/teste-auto/teste-comparative/mazda6-vs-honda-accord-vs-toyota-avensis-2758871
http://www.autopruvodce.cz/testy/honda_accord_tourer_vs_toyota_avensis_kombi
http://www.motorvision.de/videos/honda-accord-tourer-2-0-vs-toyota-avensis-combi-2-0-vergleich-der-japan-kombis,146.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOqdJAjiE8Y
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