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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?

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DOHCtor
Profile for DOHCtor
Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2012 20:22
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FT-86, is it a legend in the making? It makes all the right noises, and from the reviews I have seen so far, it checks all the boxes.

I have never been a huge Toyota or Subaru fan. I have always preferred a screaming Honda powerplant under my bonnet, blame my naivety, or the Honda fan boy-ism. But then there are times like these, when it's hard being a Honda fan. I won't mourn the death of the Intergras, the Preludes, the CRXs, the S2000s, the 9000rpm redlines or whine about Honda's lost mojo, because it has been done to death already.

But it saddens me to no end, when a company like Honda, born of out love for motor sports, turns into another appliance manufacturer. Where is the answer to the FT-86? I am sorry but the new Si just doesn't cut the mustard. The CR-Z, no matter how innovative, is a car no one asked for. If Honda hasn't started losing its sleep over the FT-86 already, then it's about time they should.

Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86, or do they plan to keep their heads where the sun don't shine on this one too?
Jovian8
Profile for Jovian8
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2012 20:35
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Honda could easily build a FT86 competitor...
but it wont.

For some strange reason, sporty cars are abandoned
and Crossover & hybrid sectors are pursued.
... and I gotta say they are doing badly in those sectors except for the CR-V which is a good car.

BlackSeries
Profile for BlackSeries
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2012 20:41
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Probably cost and lack of sales for no S2000 successor.
The R&D was so high that Toyota asked Subaru to share the cost and keep one for yourself with a your badge. ;)

And I think EV-STER will be the answer to BRZ/FRS..lol;
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-25-2012 22:35
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Jovian8 wrote:
Honda could easily build a FT86 competitor...
but it wont.

For some strange reason, sporty cars are abandoned
and Crossover & hybrid sectors are pursued.
... and I gotta say they are doing badly in those sectors except for the CR-V which is a good car.
On its more than 50years of history Honda has never built a compact-class RWD coupe despite all the voices claiming for it, so no, sporty cars have never been abandoned, Honda has simply never made the kind of car you guys are asking for.

Honda's answer to such cars have always been the same one: within that level of power/weight LSD-enhanced FWD compact coupes are more than able to cope with any RWD car in any circumstance, while delivering greater value, roominess, safety and all-weather performance; the current Si lives up to that formula, though obviously it's not the most hardcore incarnation they've done (and the US has rarely see those hardcore incarnations, which may also have been why the aftermarket has developed so much...). Honda has also usually alternated more hardcore models with more watered-down ones, so that ain't new either. And yes, everytime there has been a more hardcore model there have also been people that wished Honda offered an easier to live-with version in exchange for some ultimate-performance. To me at least it's only natural not offering "more of the same" every time; it's much easier to please people on 10y cycles than in 5.

Personally, I doubt the FT-86 will offer much more to the hardcore enthusiasts than a well-maintained and properly tuned 8th gen Si could, but I do recognize it ain't my field of expertise (here I'm asking for Shawn opinion).

Back to the FT-86, for decades there have been people complaining about the lack of such car in the Honda portfolio (ever since TOV exists at the very least), and it does seem that those voices will never cease.

I'm personally fine with people asking for what they want, just don't make it seem as if Honda not making it was something new. No need to be "a victim of modern times" when you can be an "ethernal victim", and instead be pleased by a reliable Japanese maker to finally making the car you want, regardless of what Honda does or doesn't. And again, the best thing you guys could do to let Honda know is not complaining in a forum but buying an FT-86, the more the better. The worst thing that could happen to you is if after all the hype the FT doesn't sell, 'cause I'm pretty sure if it does Honda will bring something to fight back; they always do (as much as Toyota does when Honda breaks some ground with a new model).

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 03:32
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danielgr wrote:
Jovian8 wrote:
Honda could easily build a FT86 competitor...
but it wont.

For some strange reason, sporty cars are abandoned
and Crossover & hybrid sectors are pursued.
... and I gotta say they are doing badly in those sectors except for the CR-V which is a good car.
On its more than 50years of history Honda has never built a compact-class RWD coupe despite all the voices claiming for it, so no, sporty cars have never been abandoned, Honda has simply never made the kind of car you guys are asking for.

Honda's answer to such cars have always been the same one: within that level of power/weight LSD-enhanced FWD compact coupes are more than able to cope with any RWD car in any circumstance, while delivering greater value, roominess, safety and all-weather performance; the current Si lives up to that formula, though obviously it's not the most hardcore incarnation they've done (and the US has rarely see those hardcore incarnations, which may also have been why the aftermarket has developed so much...). Honda has also usually alternated more hardcore models with more watered-down ones, so that ain't new either. And yes, everytime there has been a more hardcore model there have also been people that wished Honda offered an easier to live-with version in exchange for some ultimate-performance. To me at least it's only natural not offering "more of the same" every time; it's much easier to please people on 10y cycles than in 5.

Personally, I doubt the FT-86 will offer much more to the hardcore enthusiasts than a well-maintained and properly tuned 8th gen Si could, but I do recognize it ain't my field of expertise (here I'm asking for Shawn opinion).

Back to the FT-86, for decades there have been people complaining about the lack of such car in the Honda portfolio (ever since TOV exists at the very least), and it does seem that those voices will never cease.

I'm personally fine with people asking for what they want, just don't make it seem as if Honda not making it was something new. No need to be "a victim of modern times" when you can be an "ethernal victim", and instead be pleased by a reliable Japanese maker to finally making the car you want, regardless of what Honda does or doesn't. And again, the best thing you guys could do to let Honda know is not complaining in a forum but buying an FT-86, the more the better. The worst thing that could happen to you is if after all the hype the FT doesn't sell, 'cause I'm pretty sure if it does Honda will bring something to fight back; they always do (as much as Toyota does when Honda breaks some ground with a new model).




S500/S600/S800

S2000

Beat

ALL compact class RWD cars. Not coupes but "sports" cars nonetheless.

In fact, contrary to your assertion, the S was the FIRST car they ever put into production, and they certainly were building sports cars and "sporty" cars (Prelude, Si, CRX Si, NSX) long before they were building hippy-happy hybrids, monstrous SUV's, minivans, hulking hatchback Crosstours, and boxes on wheels with plastic sides. Their first car was in fact RWD, it was compact, and it was a sports car. So in their 50 years, they most certainly have built them, even if they weren't fixed roof.
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 05:13
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owequitit wrote:

In fact, contrary to your assertion, the S was the FIRST car they ever put into production, and they certainly were building sports cars and "sporty" cars (Prelude, Si, CRX Si, NSX) long before they were building hippy-happy hybrids, monstrous SUV's, minivans, hulking hatchback Crosstours, and boxes on wheels with plastic sides. Their first car was in fact RWD, it was compact, and it was a sports car. So in their 50 years, they most certainly have built them, even if they weren't fixed roof.


Honda's first production vehicle was the T360 truck, and soon after the S500. So in this sense, the functional vehicle (ie 'utility truck') actually comes first.

"The T360 mini truck went on sale in August 1963, and the S500 sports car hit the market in October."

From http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1962autoproduction/text/05.html

I am not going to argue your point, I would like to see a sports from Honda, but just pointing this out the first production vehicle from Honda is actually a truck. Their first concept is the S360 though.

What I do want to say is that, back in 1963, people and cars are fewer so there is definitely some desire for the stylish sports cars. But now many years later, the road are overcrowded with people who owns cars but don't know how to use a dipstick or check their tire pressure....
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 05:22
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
owequitit wrote:

In fact, contrary to your assertion, the S was the FIRST car they ever put into production, and they certainly were building sports cars and "sporty" cars (Prelude, Si, CRX Si, NSX) long before they were building hippy-happy hybrids, monstrous SUV's, minivans, hulking hatchback Crosstours, and boxes on wheels with plastic sides. Their first car was in fact RWD, it was compact, and it was a sports car. So in their 50 years, they most certainly have built them, even if they weren't fixed roof.


Honda's first production vehicle was the T360 truck, and soon after the S500. So in this sense, the functional vehicle (ie 'utility truck') actually comes first.

"The T360 mini truck went on sale in August 1963, and the S500 sports car hit the market in October."

From http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1962autoproduction/text/05.html

I am not going to argue your point, I would like to see a sports from Honda, but just pointing this out the first production vehicle from Honda is actually a truck. Their first concept is the S360 though.

What I do want to say is that, back in 1963, people and cars are fewer so there is definitely some desire for the stylish sports cars. But now many years later, the road are overcrowded with people who owns cars but don't know how to use a dipstick or check their tire pressure....



Please re-read my statement. I said production CAR, not production vehicle.

And yes, the T360 was first, but the S500 was right behind it by a few months, and it was unquestionably a sports car.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 05:41
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owequitit wrote:
danielgr wrote:
Jovian8 wrote:
Honda could easily build a FT86 competitor...
but it wont.

For some strange reason, sporty cars are abandoned
and Crossover & hybrid sectors are pursued.
... and I gotta say they are doing badly in those sectors except for the CR-V which is a good car.
On its more than 50years of history Honda has never built a compact-class RWD coupe despite all the voices claiming for it, so no, sporty cars have never been abandoned, Honda has simply never made the kind of car you guys are asking for.

Honda's answer to such cars have always been the same one: within that level of power/weight LSD-enhanced FWD compact coupes are more than able to cope with any RWD car in any circumstance, while delivering greater value, roominess, safety and all-weather performance; the current Si lives up to that formula, though obviously it's not the most hardcore incarnation they've done (and the US has rarely see those hardcore incarnations, which may also have been why the aftermarket has developed so much...). Honda has also usually alternated more hardcore models with more watered-down ones, so that ain't new either. And yes, everytime there has been a more hardcore model there have also been people that wished Honda offered an easier to live-with version in exchange for some ultimate-performance. To me at least it's only natural not offering "more of the same" every time; it's much easier to please people on 10y cycles than in 5.

Personally, I doubt the FT-86 will offer much more to the hardcore enthusiasts than a well-maintained and properly tuned 8th gen Si could, but I do recognize it ain't my field of expertise (here I'm asking for Shawn opinion).

Back to the FT-86, for decades there have been people complaining about the lack of such car in the Honda portfolio (ever since TOV exists at the very least), and it does seem that those voices will never cease.

I'm personally fine with people asking for what they want, just don't make it seem as if Honda not making it was something new. No need to be "a victim of modern times" when you can be an "ethernal victim", and instead be pleased by a reliable Japanese maker to finally making the car you want, regardless of what Honda does or doesn't. And again, the best thing you guys could do to let Honda know is not complaining in a forum but buying an FT-86, the more the better. The worst thing that could happen to you is if after all the hype the FT doesn't sell, 'cause I'm pretty sure if it does Honda will bring something to fight back; they always do (as much as Toyota does when Honda breaks some ground with a new model).




S500/S600/S800

S2000

Beat

ALL compact class RWD cars. Not coupes but "sports" cars nonetheless.

In fact, contrary to your assertion, the S was the FIRST car they ever put into production, and they certainly were building sports cars and "sporty" cars (Prelude, Si, CRX Si, NSX) long before they were building hippy-happy hybrids, monstrous SUV's, minivans, hulking hatchback Crosstours, and boxes on wheels with plastic sides. Their first car was in fact RWD, it was compact, and it was a sports car. So in their 50 years, they most certainly have built them, even if they weren't fixed roof.


Thanks owe but mind you, by now you should know at least I know the basic history of Honda and avoid playing with my words. I obviously used the word "compact coupe" as referring to a mainstream coupe in the us compact segment (selling in the 20k bracket and with a broad appeal) The S series are specialty cars that have nothing to do in this conversation on the FT-86, nor could any of them be considered as an answer to it.
The beat is a 660cc MR car, which as a concept has more in common with an NSX than anything else.

So really, just go back on topic before discussing for the sake of it and picking word in a sense you know is wrong. No civic Si could be an S2000 substitute, nor the opposite.

Now, once again, all you guys have to do is simple: buy the FT if it does embody what you are looking for in a car. Honda never made a CrossTour because of a happy idea, they did it because they saw Venza sales and thought people are ready to pay for such car. Now have a look at the 370z (arguably the best Z ever by a healthy margin) numbers and it's easy to understand why they are not going there. Personally, I believe that even the image of the "performance enthusiast" as they guy whose compliments would help drive sales and create a positive aura around the brand is fading, maybe faster than some would like it too

Again, I hope Honda brings some nice present for you guys, but that's likely to be that, a present, or a specialty car if you want, and I sure hope when they do it's not an answer to the FT, because I really see nothing "special" about it (and I'm using the word special as in the s2000). And again, to me the answer to that type of car has always be and will always be something along the lines of the current Si or the old preludes / integras.


Last edited by danielgr on 03-26-2012 06:04
Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 06:53
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This page includes information on the S600 coupe or fastback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S600

You must realize that mass production of sports cars during the 1960s, spread out across the dozens of manufacturers that offered them, typically amounted to thousands of cars per year and not tens or hundreds of thousands. Even the common MGB sold just 500k over the 18 years it was available and the GT version sold just a fraction of that. The MGB was the best selling true sports car of all time until the Miata passsed it in sales a few years ago and for nearly all of its time it sold in fewer numbers each year in the US than the CRZ is now. The MGB died due to runaway inflation during the late 1970s, something Honda seems to respect.

The best selling sports GT in the US could arguably be said to be the Datsun Z.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_S30

It too suffered massively from inflation with some years in the 1970s seeing car prices increase 20% to 30%. There are still people who think the Corvette and Mustang are sports cars though.

I don't see how this FRS/BRZ car can succeed in the auto market today. At it's starting price, the demand for sports cars today, and the need for cars to sell in the tens of thousands I just don't see it lasting - my guess is the sports GT market in the US could be 10% of what it was in the early '70s. I hope Toyota/Subaru aren't confusing the success of the Mini Cooper with real demand for a serious sports GT. The BRZ could be a new Z-car for the masses or it could be a new Triumph GT6. As for Honda needing to compete in a profitless segment I'm not sure what to say other than just because it's cool doesn't mean it's a good idea. During a time in the '80s when most of the sporty cars, and there were still many, fit this BRZ mold, it was extraordinary that Honda produced a FWD sporty GT coupe with two seats and excellent gas mileage. I don't understand why someone would want Honda to be just another car company like Toyota today.


PGH
Profile for PGH
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 07:23
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It has to due with sales. Their passion to build a great car that will sell in low numbers makes the bean counters sweat. But, then again, we have the NSX.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 07:45
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Grace141 wrote:
This page includes information on the S600 coupe or fastback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S600

You must realize that mass production of sports cars during the 1960s, spread out across the dozens of manufacturers that offered them, typically amounted to thousands of cars per year and not tens or hundreds of thousands. Even the common MGB sold just 500k over the 18 years it was available and the GT version sold just a fraction of that. The MGB was the best selling true sports car of all time until the Miata passsed it in sales a few years ago and for nearly all of its time it sold in fewer numbers each year in the US than the CRZ is now. The MGB died due to runaway inflation during the late 1970s, something Honda seems to respect.

The best selling sports GT in the US could arguably be said to be the Datsun Z.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_S30

It too suffered massively from inflation with some years in the 1970s seeing car prices increase 20% to 30%. There are still people who think the Corvette and Mustang are sports cars though.

I don't see how this FRS/BRZ car can succeed in the auto market today. At it's starting price, the demand for sports cars today, and the need for cars to sell in the tens of thousands I just don't see it lasting - my guess is the sports GT market in the US could be 10% of what it was in the early '70s. I hope Toyota/Subaru aren't confusing the success of the Mini Cooper with real demand for a serious sports GT. The BRZ could be a new Z-car for the masses or it could be a new Triumph GT6. As for Honda needing to compete in a profitless segment I'm not sure what to say other than just because it's cool doesn't mean it's a good idea. During a time in the '80s when most of the sporty cars, and there were still many, fit this BRZ mold, it was extraordinary that Honda produced a FWD sporty GT coupe with two seats and excellent gas mileage. I don't understand why someone would want Honda to be just another car company like Toyota today.





Interesting points.

It IS possible to make money at low volume, using 'soft' tooling & the like. Especially if one factors in the rather nebulous 'halo' effect.

If you look at the way the germans spin off all sorts of daft, low-volume variants (I still cannot understand the point of having C & E-class versions of the same coupe!) one may better understand the logic.

Anyway, hopefully the 86 will be a great, involving drive & a success. It's about the only modern production car I'm interested in.
Jovian8
Profile for Jovian8
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 09:24
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I bet Honda is making a pile of money on the RL & ZDX & Ridgeline!

If they can release those cars, why not a sports coupe?
Jovian8
Profile for Jovian8
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 09:42
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Like daniel says ... a lot of us would be very happy with a resurrected Prelude. I guess Honda surmises that the Accord Coupe is the Prelude replacement --not so.

How easy is that? New styling, keep the Accord chassis and drivetrain with a few tweaks...

Why doesnt Honda throw us that bone?
RSX
Profile for RSX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86? Civic Type-R!!!    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 09:51
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A Civic Type-R could be made to be very competitive. It probably would not completely match the handling of the Subota but a better powertrain and more power would make it very competitive.
Mr. Taggart
Profile for Mr. Taggart
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 10:05
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How different is the FT from the miata except for the hard roof?

If not much then the problem is the limited utlity of the car. Sure they are fun to drive and have great handling but they are really a second car in most instances.

And can the target market afford the vehicle given the economy?


Honda didn't lose sleep over the 240SX so I don't think they will lose much now.
A77
Profile for A77
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 11:40
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for one the FT has rear seats of a sort with child seat anchors.

awesome review here - havent seen Chris Harris productions before....even talks about LSDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g
Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 12:28
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Daniel writes another Russian novel pointlessly arguing about RWD when nobody implied that a Honda FT86 competitor needed to be RWD.

I think Ito was on record saying that Honda had to answer the FT86 one way or the other and that we should expect a competitor from them. If it's FWD, that's fine... as long as it's not a half-assed effort.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 13:16
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Interestingly, I remember there were rumours that the S2000 was to be replaced slightly downmarket (which caused wailing & gnashing of teeth) before it was cancelled.

I dunno; say a rebody & a tweaked K20, perhaps so it would have been more of an 8 6/MX-5 car than an S3000/Boxster-style car.

So never say never. Except in that idiom of course...
MasterOfDaDomain
Profile for MasterOfDaDomain
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 13:52
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Company leadership makes a huge difference. Mazda is not big but continues to improve Miata as one of the best affordable and handling cars. Toyota has seen the writings on the wall and comes out with a great product.

On the contrary, Honda doesn't lack money but continues to abandon enthusiasts on multiple fronts.

Anyway, sports cars are supposed to be impractical cars. Members in my local bimmer chapter are all very excited about these 2 vehicles.
cforez
Profile for cforez
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 14:12
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Power Of Dreams wrote:
Daniel writes another Russian novel pointlessly arguing about RWD when nobody implied that a Honda FT86 competitor needed to be RWD.

I think Ito was on record saying that Honda had to answer the FT86 one way or the other and that we should expect a competitor from them. If it's FWD, that's fine... as long as it's not a half-assed effort.



I dunno, making it FWD would automatically make it a half-assed effort. Anyway if you wanted a FWD competitor to the FR-S/BRZ twins, Honda already makes that car, the Civic Si coupe (and it's faster and cheaper).

NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 14:40
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cforez wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
Daniel writes another Russian novel pointlessly arguing about RWD when nobody implied that a Honda FT86 competitor needed to be RWD.

I think Ito was on record saying that Honda had to answer the FT86 one way or the other and that we should expect a competitor from them. If it's FWD, that's fine... as long as it's not a half-assed effort.



I dunno, making it FWD would automatically make it a half-assed effort. Anyway if you wanted a FWD competitor to the FR-S/BRZ twins, Honda already makes that car, the Civic Si coupe (and it's faster and cheaper).



That said, it would be very interesting to see any contemporary Type-R take on either of these RWD twins.
RSX
Profile for RSX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 14:54
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Neal wrote:
cforez wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
Daniel writes another Russian novel pointlessly arguing about RWD when nobody implied that a Honda FT86 competitor needed to be RWD.

I think Ito was on record saying that Honda had to answer the FT86 one way or the other and that we should expect a competitor from them. If it's FWD, that's fine... as long as it's not a half-assed effort.



I dunno, making it FWD would automatically make it a half-assed effort. Anyway if you wanted a FWD competitor to the FR-S/BRZ twins, Honda already makes that car, the Civic Si coupe (and it's faster and cheaper).



That said, it would be very interesting to see any contemporary Type-R take on either of these RWD twins.




Okay, someone needs to do a comparison of the ITR to the Subota. It's too intriguing not to.
BlackSeries
Profile for BlackSeries
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 15:52
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RSX wrote:

Okay, someone needs to do a comparison of the ITR to the Subota. It's too intriguing not to.


BRZ
http://tinyurl.com/BRZFRS86
0-30 2.3
0-40 3.4
0-50 4.8
0-60 6.4
0-70 8.4
0-80 10.5
0-90 13.2
0-100 16.4
QUARTER MILE: 14.9 sec @ 95.5 mph
BRAKING: 60-0 MPH 120 ft
Lateral acceleration, 0.90g
EPA fuel economy: 22/30
CURB WEIGHT 2747 lb

ITR
http://tinyurl.com/AITRFWD
0-30 mph 2.6
0-40 mph 3.8
0-50 mph 4.9
0-60 mph 6.2
0-70 mph 8.1
0-80 mph 10.1
0-90 mph 12.8
Quarter mile 14.8secs @ 96.3mph
Braking: 60-0 mph 115 ft
Lateral acceleration, 0.92g
EPA fuel economy: 25/30
Curb weight: 2639 lb




Hmm....Not much difference, all I can see is, ITR is still more desirable.


NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 16:00
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What year is that ITR?
DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 16:31
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"Says an Acura exec, "The Type R is a [car] with all the performance and fun factors clicked all the way up. It shows all that's possible when racing engineers tune a road car for serious driving enthusiasts."

Can we have this Acura exec back please?
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 17:31
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Neal wrote:
cforez wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
Daniel writes another Russian novel pointlessly arguing about RWD when nobody implied that a Honda FT86 competitor needed to be RWD.

I think Ito was on record saying that Honda had to answer the FT86 one way or the other and that we should expect a competitor from them. If it's FWD, that's fine... as long as it's not a half-assed effort.



I dunno, making it FWD would automatically make it a half-assed effort. Anyway if you wanted a FWD competitor to the FR-S/BRZ twins, Honda already makes that car, the Civic Si coupe (and it's faster and cheaper).



That said, it would be very interesting to see any contemporary Type-R take on either of these RWD twins.



I feel pretty confident in saying that the FD2 Type R would whip the everliving shit out of the FT-86, in pretty much any comparison you could come up with. Okay, maybe the slalom numbers would be close. I have driven the FD2, but not the FT-86 (yet). It kills me that Honda denied us the opportunity to purchase a proper FD2 Type R in the USA.
NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 17:44
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330R
Profile for 330R
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 18:08
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Jeff wrote:
It kills me that Honda denied us the opportunity to purchase a proper FD2 Type R in the USA.


Honda blew it. They blew it and now the K20 is gone. Heads up their asses, Jeff. What did they fly you half way around the world for? That's an expensive tease. Really, really, I want an honest explanation for Honda's stupidity on this.
danielavg1991
Profile for danielavg1991
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-26-2012 19:38
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I hear what you're saying Jeff, but is that really a fair comparison? I've read projections on this site saying that the FD2 Type R in the states would have been much more expensive than a Civic Si or Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ. The 86 and BRZ are essentially base models. They were built to a price point. In addition, they were built with some performance compromises for daily drivability in mind, particularly with regards to ride height and suspension tuning. But, there could be more high performance tuned versions down the pipeline for all we know... and with the inherent handling advantage of the FR platform and boxer engine in a smaller and lighter package, it's hard to imagine that in an uncompromised state of tune like the FD2 type R, the 86/BRZ would get whipped on that badly :) We already know based on the engineers' statements that the 86 and BRZ were not built to be the fastest around a track, trying to focus more on driving fun than absolute best racetrack performance like Type R's. But this is all just speculation until TRD or STI decide to get serious... and I certainly look forward to the possibility of seeing what the 86/BRZ platform is truly capable of.
DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: Does Honda have an answer to the FT-86?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-27-2012 00:53
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A77 wrote:
for one the FT has rear seats of a sort with child seat anchors.

awesome review here - havent seen Chris Harris productions before....even talks about LSDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=romf-G6CZ7g


Have fun when you try to put the car seat, secure it and try to put the little toddler into the 'seat'. You know you are still 'young' if you succeed.
 
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