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DCR
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Ripped from FT86Club
To: All Scion Dealers March 20, 2012
Subject: 2013MY Scion FR-S Price Announcement
Scion is pleased to announce the starting price of $24,200 for the highly awaited 2013MY Scion.
FR-S which will arrive at Scion dealerships in June. Even with DPH, the starting price is still under $25,000!
2013MY Scion FR-S Highlights:
This high performance sports car is the fifth model to join the Scion family. Inspired by the
Toyota AE86, FR-S is designed around the core goal of achieving, “Pure Balance.” This
balance begins with the use of the world’s only front-engine, rear-wheel drive configuration
using a flat boxer engine.
Some of the great standard features on FR-S include:
• 2.0 liter, 200 horsepower, naturally aspirated four-cylinder boxer engine
• Toyota’s cutting edge D-4S injection system with direct and port
injection
• 6-speed manual transmission that offers quick precise shifts with a short
throw
• 6-speed automatic transmission with rev-match and steering-wheel
mounted paddle shifters
• Torque Sensing Limited Slip Differential
• 17-inch alloy wheels and ventilated disc brakes
FR-S’s interior ****pit instantly exudes a “sports car” feel. The front sports seats are shaped to
accommodate manual shifting and support longitudinal and lateral G-force. The leather
wrapped 3-spoke sports steering wheel, utilizes the smallest diameter in the Scion lineup.
The idea of “Pure Balance” is further realized by FR-S’s lightweight design and compact size.
This allows the car to be quick and nimble into and out of corners. This combination is further
proof that Scion is truly “Bringing the Sport Back to the Car.”
The FR-S will be available in seven colors including Raven, Asphalt, Hot Lava, Argento,
Ultramarine, Firestorm and Whiteout.
Pricing Summary Documents:
MSRP for the FR-S six-speed manual and six-speed sequential automatic transmissions are $24,200 and $25,300 respectively.
Model Transmission Description 2013 Base
MSRP
6253 6MT FA20 $24,200
6252 6AT FA20 $25,300
All prices listed above exclude the Delivery, Processing, and Handling (DPH) fee
Pricing will be announced to the public on Thursday, March 22, 2012. Please keep this
information confidential until Thursday, March 22, 2012. Pricing details will be available in
the Scion FR-S Price Guides posted in the “Secure Area” for Dealer Principals on Dealer Daily.
Please contact your Regional Office or local administrator if you have any questions.
*Update*
Looks like the Destination Charge is going to be $730. |
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danielavg1991
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Not bad! Really wish Honda had something to compete with this car. Toyota and Subaru did a great job giving enthusiasts exactly what they asked for. Small, light, RWD, low center of gravity, high revving 100 hp/liter boxer, LSD, attractive 2+2 focused on fun!
At this price range, if brute high horsepower is more of your thing, then the Genesis Coupe, Mustang V6, etc. are there available for you. The FR-S will be a good Miata competitor, especially if roadsters are not your thing, as its clearly more of a momentum machine. The Miata is priced just slightly under the Scion, I believe.
Toyota's trick D4-S system delivers good fuel economy too (34 highway auto), and since it has both port and direct injection, there won't be concerns about carbon deposit buildup since the valves will be washed by the port fuel injectors. That's one thing I'm wondering if Honda has figured out how to deal with, since earth dreams tech will bring DI for them.
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Potenza
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Well, it's not a runaway leader based on specs, anyhow.
Civic Si Coupe 6MT
$22,975
201hp
22/31 EPA
FR-S Coupe 6MT
$24,930
200hp
22/30 EPA
Genesis Coupe 6MT
$25,125
274hp
21/30 EPA
Is it really worth $2,000 more than the Si? Is it significantly better than the 74hp-greater Genesis at comparable price?
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Dren
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It certainly wins in the looks department. And I am going to go out on a limb and say it will win in the dynamics department as well.
If I didn't have a Civic Si, I would be leaning towards the Subi.
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CR-V9
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| • Torque Sensing Limited Slip Differential |
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typer_801
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Torsen LSD - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TorsenCR-V9 wrote:
| • Torque Sensing Limited Slip Differential |
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typer_801
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I'm gonna say the Si and FR-S are not direct competitors in a lot of circles. They may get researched together initially, but they are really completely different animals. The priorities of those buyers are going to be different in a lot of cases.
We'll have to wait for some hard testing data back on the FR-S, but i expect it to have really impressive results (not speed stuff), but mostly the dynamics (lateral accel, braking, slalom) and all subjective evaluations. Also keep in mind, the FR-S is saddled with green tires (Michelin Primacy MXV4's - same as the Prius). So there's instant performance improvement to be gained from a tire swap.
Potenza wrote:
Well, it's not a runaway leader based on specs, anyhow.
Civic Si Coupe 6MT
$22,975
201hp
22/31 EPA
FR-S Coupe 6MT
$24,930
200hp
22/30 EPA
Genesis Coupe 6MT
$25,125
274hp
21/30 EPA
Is it really worth $2,000 more than the Si? Is it significantly better than the 74hp-greater Genesis at comparable price?
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CR-V9
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Is it?
Torsen LSD doesn't have to 'sense' torque?
'Torsen' is a type of mechanical Limited slip differntial?
Why didn't say it so, then?
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Mechanic
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typer_801 wrote:
I'm gonna say the Si and FR-S are not direct competitors in a lot of circles. They may get researched together initially, but they really completely different animals. The priorities of those buyers are going to be different in a lot of cases. (Emphasis added.)
We'll have to wait for some hard testing data back on the FR-S, but i expect it to have really impressive results (not speed stuff), but mostly the dynamics (lateral accel, braking, slalom) and all subjective evaluations. Also keep in mind, the FR-S is saddled with green tires (Michelin Primacy MXV4's - same as the Prius). So there's instant performance improvement to be gained from a tire swap. . . .( Emphasis added). |
I agree, word for word. I'm also surprised the projected MSRP is so reasonable. TM & Roo are gonna sell a ton of these cars.
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Chris_6MT
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Potenza wrote:
Well, it's not a runaway leader based on specs, anyhow.
Civic Si Coupe 6MT
$22,975
201hp
22/31 EPA
FR-S Coupe 6MT
$24,930
200hp
22/30 EPA
Genesis Coupe 6MT
$25,125
274hp
21/30 EPA
Is it really worth $2,000 more than the Si? Is it significantly better than the 74hp-greater Genesis at comparable price?
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People that buy cars based on specs deserve the overweight pig that is the Genesis (hope the morons that called my a Hyundai employee for liking the Sonata and Elantra so much read that).
The FR-S/BR-Z are not intended to be and should not be viewed based on their specifications. They are built in the same spirit as the Elise and S2000, allegedly. Intangibles over tangibles. That's what makes the S2000 the car and experience that it is, because it sure as hell isn't fast.
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NSXforever
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typer_801 wrote:
I'm gonna say the Si and FR-S are not direct competitors in a lot of circles. They may get researched together initially, but they are really completely different animals. The priorities of those buyers are going to be different in a lot of cases.
We'll have to wait for some hard testing data back on the FR-S, but i expect it to have really impressive results (not speed stuff), but mostly the dynamics (lateral accel, braking, slalom) and all subjective evaluations. Also keep in mind, the FR-S is saddled with green tires (Michelin Primacy MXV4's - same as the Prius). So there's instant performance improvement to be gained from a tire swap.
Potenza wrote:
Well, it's not a runaway leader based on specs, anyhow.
Civic Si Coupe 6MT
$22,975
201hp
22/31 EPA
FR-S Coupe 6MT
$24,930
200hp
22/30 EPA
Genesis Coupe 6MT
$25,125
274hp
21/30 EPA
Is it really worth $2,000 more than the Si? Is it significantly better than the 74hp-greater Genesis at comparable price?
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Agreed. The reviews of the FR-S/triplets have been jaw dropping explaining how its a true drivers car, completely involving and just a blast to drive. This is maybe the cheapest purpose built sports car around. It really doesn't have any head on competitors when you look at size and price, maybe the MX-5 but its a convertible.
This car is really aimed for RWD sports car enthusiasts, made by car guys for car guys.
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Hondarulez
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Chris_6MT wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Well, it's not a runaway leader based on specs, anyhow.
Civic Si Coupe 6MT
$22,975
201hp
22/31 EPA
FR-S Coupe 6MT
$24,930
200hp
22/30 EPA
Genesis Coupe 6MT
$25,125
274hp
21/30 EPA
Is it really worth $2,000 more than the Si? Is it significantly better than the 74hp-greater Genesis at comparable price?
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People that buy cars based on specs deserve the overweight pig that is the Genesis (hope the morons that called my a Hyundai employee for liking the Sonata and Elantra so much read that).
The FR-S/BR-Z are not intended to be and should not be viewed based on their specifications. They are built in the same spirit as the Elise and S2000, allegedly. Intangibles over tangibles. That's what makes the S2000 the car and experience that it is, because it sure as hell isn't fast.
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Yup, based on what I've read regarding fun-to-drive factor, I'd pick the FR-S and/or BR-Z.
Now wait till they boost that 200hp engine...........any news on that?
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JeffX
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Chris_6MT wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Well, it's not a runaway leader based on specs, anyhow.
Civic Si Coupe 6MT
$22,975
201hp
22/31 EPA
FR-S Coupe 6MT
$24,930
200hp
22/30 EPA
Genesis Coupe 6MT
$25,125
274hp
21/30 EPA
Is it really worth $2,000 more than the Si? Is it significantly better than the 74hp-greater Genesis at comparable price?
|
People that buy cars based on specs deserve the overweight pig that is the Genesis (hope the morons that called my a Hyundai employee for liking the Sonata and Elantra so much read that).
The FR-S/BR-Z are not intended to be and should not be viewed based on their specifications. They are built in the same spirit as the Elise and S2000, allegedly. Intangibles over tangibles. That's what makes the S2000 the car and experience that it is, because it sure as hell isn't fast.
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The S2000 isn't FAST by today's standards but it's still a category or two beyond something like the Civic Si, FR-S/BRZ, MX-5
I don't know the actual numbers but it doesn't seem like the 2012 Si has sold very well so far (I have seen exactly 1 on the road in the past year), and the news of this FR-S pricing spells doesn't make me feel very good about the Si's sales situation improving. $24,200 is only 8.5% more than the Si's starting price. I don't see this as a deterrent. Enthusiasts frequently spend $2k on an exhaust/header combo.
There seems to be so much anticipation for this FR-S/BRZ, the actual difference in transaction prices will likely be much greater, however. I imagine that the FR-S and BRZ will go for more than sticker to start out, or at the very least sell at MSRP, while according to Edmunds, the TMV for the Si is currently going for around $1500 below MSRP.
I haven't driven the FR-S or BRZ yet but I have spoken to many journalists who have, and it sounds like it's pretty legit (though most have complained about its relative lack of power). Where the 2012 Si has diminished many of the things that made earlier Si appeal to enthusiasts, the FR-S has a lot of strong points going in its favor.
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Grace141
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I wonder how long Toyota and Subaru can hold those prices. Either the car is inexpensive to build or they expect to build strong sales momentum and maintain it for several years. The reason this car looks so familar to me is it's been done before in the form of the '89 240SX and Nissan couldn't maintain that in the marketplace. The Miata is still around but only because Mazda has masterfully costed it out for such low sales volumes. And the Mustang isn't a good indicator of sustainability of the product because average MSRP's on even the V6 Mustangs is quite a bit higher than $24,200.
It would definitely be cool to see this car succeed. You're getting older if you remember nearly all of the manufacturers offered cars like this RWD sporty GT with some offering more than one model.
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DCR
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It will succeed, and for a car like this, there is one sure avenue for it to do so.
http://wot.motortrend.com/tuners-delight-the-aftermarket-dives-deep-into-2013-scion-fr-s-180887.html
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MasterOfDaDomain
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This is really good price. I think these cars would do pretty well. I bet you'll see lots of them at autocross and track events.
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NealX
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Like Jeff, I've only seen one Si (sedan) on the road here in PHX - Polished Metal driven by a middle-aged woman (which in itself is kinda cool).
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JeffX
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Grace141 wrote:
I wonder how long Toyota and Subaru can hold those prices. Either the car is inexpensive to build or they expect to build strong sales momentum and maintain it for several years. The reason this car looks so familar to me is it's been done before in the form of the '89 240SX and Nissan couldn't maintain that in the marketplace. The Miata is still around but only because Mazda has masterfully costed it out for such low sales volumes. And the Mustang isn't a good indicator of sustainability of the product because average MSRP's on even the V6 Mustangs is quite a bit higher than $24,200.
It would definitely be cool to see this car succeed. You're getting older if you remember nearly all of the manufacturers offered cars like this RWD sporty GT with some offering more than one model.
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the 240sx basically had an engine that was ripped straight from their pickup truck (and it felt like it too) and it was EXPENSIVE, especially the one that came out in '94-'95ish (MSRP pushing $30k). It was a nice chassis, though.
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DrWhiner
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Is this good???
Airaid, a company known mostly for its truck performance intake systems, went the high-tech route by digitally mapping the engine bay with a 3D scanner. After making a full 3D rendering of the FR-S’ stock intake system, Airaid engineer Clayton Rietz said many parts appear similar to the intake of the Toyota Tacoma ...
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/tuners-delight-the-aftermarket-dives-deep-into-2013-scion-fr-s-180887.html#ixzz1q0AfZVsh
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DCR
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DrWhiner wrote:
Is this good???
Airaid, a company known mostly for its truck performance intake systems, went the high-tech route by digitally mapping the engine bay with a 3D scanner. After making a full 3D rendering of the FR-S’ stock intake system, Airaid engineer Clayton Rietz said many parts appear similar to the intake of the Toyota Tacoma ...
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/tuners-delight-the-aftermarket-dives-deep-into-2013-scion-fr-s-180887.html#ixzz1q0AfZVsh
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What is wrong with it?
The Civic Si has an ENGINE that is similar (exact) to the TSX...is that good?
Sales say it isn't.
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danielgr
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DCR wrote:
DrWhiner wrote:
Is this good???
Airaid, a company known mostly for its truck performance intake systems, went the high-tech route by digitally mapping the engine bay with a 3D scanner. After making a full 3D rendering of the FR-S’ stock intake system, Airaid engineer Clayton Rietz said many parts appear similar to the intake of the Toyota Tacoma ...
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/tuners-delight-the-aftermarket-dives-deep-into-2013-scion-fr-s-180887.html#ixzz1q0AfZVsh
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What is wrong with it?
The Civic Si has an ENGINE that is similar (exact) to the TSX...is that good?
Sales say it isn't.
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I always wish those were available somewhere, but could never find them...
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Grace141
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Jeff wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
I wonder how long Toyota and Subaru can hold those prices. Either the car is inexpensive to build or they expect to build strong sales momentum and maintain it for several years. The reason this car looks so familar to me is it's been done before in the form of the '89 240SX and Nissan couldn't maintain that in the marketplace. The Miata is still around but only because Mazda has masterfully costed it out for such low sales volumes. And the Mustang isn't a good indicator of sustainability of the product because average MSRP's on even the V6 Mustangs is quite a bit higher than $24,200.
It would definitely be cool to see this car succeed. You're getting older if you remember nearly all of the manufacturers offered cars like this RWD sporty GT with some offering more than one model.
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the 240sx basically had an engine that was ripped straight from their pickup truck (and it felt like it too) and it was EXPENSIVE, especially the one that came out in '94-'95ish (MSRP pushing $30k). It was a nice chassis, though.
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Yes, as the sporty car shoppers of the '90s decided they wanted trucks Nissan had to send the 240SX upmarket to keep it going. And the KA series engine block was indeed shared with the trucks but the heads and internal specs were different. Much like what Honda does with the K24 series. The KA24 block and internals made up an excellent engine for Nissan. I was less impressed with the components and I spent far too much of my free time researching timing chain tensioners. I've always believed the old Nissans would never blow up on you but they would nickel and dime you to frustration.
I see some folks here looking at the new Toyota/Subaru as almost a watershed sporty car product. My point would be the price is too cheap for that. The comment above about the intake being similar to that of a Tacoma is exactly what I would expect, and it's not to say the FR-S using a Tacoma intake would be a bad thing. No one seemed to mind the Ford GT using the Lightning engine. I am sure the FR-S/BRZ combo will be found to be an interesting assembly of somewhat pedestrian parts exactly like many of the Hondas and Acuras have been over the years. These cars were very common back when people seemed interested in buying them so I'm not sure why so many people are excited. The fact that neither Toyota nor Subaru could apparently develop the thing by themselves due to the money involved is pretty sad.
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A77
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There's been an inordinate delay in the supply of Sis (for whatever reason) and we are only now getting some in stock in any number. I have one customer waiting for a 2013....
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Stevens24
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Well considering edmunds test put it at 7.3 0-60 and 15.3 in te wuarter mile, it will need all of the after market it can get. almost a second slower than the 2012 Si 0-60. I know "but it handles great.
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DCR
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Stevens24 wrote:
Well considering edmunds test put it at 7.3 0-60 and 15.3 in te wuarter mile, it will need all of the after market it can get. almost a second slower than the 2012 Si 0-60. I know "but it handles great.
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MT got much better numbers...not sure what Edmunds was doing.
TEST DATA
ACCELERATION TO MPH
0-30 2.3 sec
0-40 3.4
0-50 4.8
0-60 6.4
0-70 8.4
0-80 10.5
0-90 13.2
0-100 16.4
PASSING, 45-65 MPH 3.3
QUARTER MILE 14.9 sec @ 95.5 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 120 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.90 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 26.2 sec @ 0.68 g (avg)
TOP-GEAR REVS @ 60 MPH 2650 rpm
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1203_2013_subaru_brz_limited_first_test/viewall.html#ixzz1q3kzPjJf
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bigblue
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Is ~7s to 60mph really too slow ? Sounds great to me. Anyway, it's built for thrashing and playing (link to Chris Harris video), not top-trumps.
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atomiclightbulb
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DCR wrote:
Stevens24 wrote:
Well considering edmunds test put it at 7.3 0-60 |
MT got much better numbers...not sure what Edmunds was doing.
TEST DATA
ACCELERATION TO MPH
0-30 2.3 sec
0-40 3.4
0-50 4.8
0-60 6.4
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1203_2013_subaru_brz_limited_first_test/viewall.html#ixzz1q3kzPjJf |
I think that in general, Motor Trend records faster times than Edmunds', and C&D records the fastest times of these three publications.
Test methodology is probably different between these three organizations. I know Edmunds' posts acceleration times both with and without rollout. I'd also like to know what RPM the driver dropped the clutch at when launching the vehicle.
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notyper
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Edmunds launched in the 3500 range, and said they had problems with the shifter on the 1-2 shift. Motor Trend said they launched in the 5000 rpm range and had no such problems. Two different test facilities too. MT uses rollout, so the appropriate comparison is 7.0 for IL vs. 6.4 for MT.
A higher launch rpm, if the track would hold it, would certainly result in a much better acceleration run. If you look at their intervals, IL took 4.3 seconds to go from 30-60 while MT took 4.1 seconds, so most of the differential appears to be off the line (MT was 0.4 seconds quicker 0-30). The extra 0.2 tenths could have something to do with the reported balky shifting.
Kind of reminds me of the F20C S2000. Early reported times ranged from mid 5-seconds to high 6's 0-60, and 1/4 miles from 13.8@100 to 15.0@96. Grippy, low torque RWD cars require some abuse off the line for a good launch.
Overall, seems a tad heavy and a tad expensive, but I think it's a solid offering, and unique at this price. I hope it sells well and encourages other OEMs to follow suit. It's no S2000, but it is a _lot_ cheaper, and appears to me much easier to drive at the limit.
SC
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Stevens24
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What help would better tires do for launch. The video on IL showed a loss of traction and bog onlaunch.
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notyper
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IL had barely a wisp of wheelspin and then bog. That tells me they needed to launch higher, but the track surface combined with the engine characteristics of the BRZ may have made balancing wheelspin and grip difficult.
Generally on a car like this though, a grippier tire is not going to make launching any easier. You have to rev higher and side-step the clutch. This is also a good way to break diffs. Cars with good traction and minimal torque are always going to be tough to launch.
SC
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