[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
All-new Honda Civic Type R: unrivalled against the brand's iconic performance flagship models
More.......................
Honda reveals 2015 CR-V
More.......................
Honda adds Special Edition trim level to 2015 Civic Lineup
More.......................
Honda releases sales figures for August 2014
More.......................
2015 Accord goes on sale today, "Gets Multiple Feature Upgrades"
More.......................
NSX prototype smolders at the 'Ring
More.......................
2016 NSX Spied at the 'Ring, Part II
More.......................
Production 2016 Acura NSX caught testing at the 'Ring!
More.......................
Today's Reading Links --> Re: 2015 CR-V Reviews
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: INDYCAR--Pagenaud defects! What is HPD's future?
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: CONTACT NOW!!! DIRECT URGENT HELP TO GET YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE
Join Discussion......
TLX --> Re: Motorweek's 0-60 and 1/4 mile
Join Discussion......
ILX --> Re: 2016 ILX MMC spied with little camo
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Big Year for HondaUK in 2015!
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: S660/1000 good news rumors from Japan
Join Discussion......
CR-V --> Re: Heading to a CR-V Preview tomorrow. What do you want to see?
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Audi - Vorpsrung durch Copycat
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Heard some old rumor that I really doubt
Join Discussion......
TLX --> Re: TLX Tech vs Accord CVT Touring
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: How many are on social media ?
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Porsche 918 burns in Toronto
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: >>>CONTACT NOW!!! DIRECT URGENT HELP TO GET YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Silly little European engines
Join Discussion......
TOV First Drive: 2015 Acura TLX
Read Article....................
Photo Gallery: 2015 Acura TLX 2.4 P-AWS
Read Article....................
Photo Gallery: 2015 Acura TLX 3.5L SH-AWD
Read Article....................
TOV Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
TOV Dyno Test: 2014 Accord Hybrid
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > ILX > > Re: ILX GSR with K23T?

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1]
Author
  Post New Thread
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 12:22
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Now that the RDX is going V6....

I think it would make sense for AHM to drop the K23T into the ILX, call it the Type S ( I prefer GS-R) and offer it with MT6 and LSD. I figure, I'd even take the plunge and live with a turbo so long as I could get my hands on 260 bhp on a FWD/MT6/LSD small ride... THAT would be the true spirit of the GSR.

That would differentiate it from the Civic Si and bring back a very well known -and loved- brand.

Meanwhile, the K24 can go with both the MT6/LSD and then a nice AT6SS... I dare say that the AT'd K24 will sell like pancakes at IHOP on a saturday morning... It would be the newer, faster, lighter TSX.

Call this the GS.

Keep the nice R20 as it is, call it the LS.

Hmm..

ILX GSR, GS and LS....

Hmm.. call a spade a spade, huh? WAKE UP AHM....

Integra GSR, GS and LS.
NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 12:35
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Honda's turbo took forever to spool up. It wasn't a very good one.

I'd be pissed as hell if they used it in what would otherwise be something I'd be VERY interested in. They should be using, IMO, a high-revving K22.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 12:41
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
NoSpinZone wrote:
Honda's turbo took forever to spool up. It wasn't a very good one.

I'd be pissed as hell if they used it in what would otherwise be something I'd be VERY interested in. They should be using, IMO, a high-revving K22.



Maybe be a K22T or even a K20T? A K20T ought to be good for gobs of power and torque, huh?
NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 12:50
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
How about lose the T and don't try to over power the front wheels.
P54
Profile for P54
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 12:54
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyE wrote:
Now that the RDX is going V6....

I think it would make sense for AHM to drop the K23T into the ILX, call it the Type S ( I prefer GS-R) and offer it with MT6 and LSD. I figure, I'd even take the plunge and live with a turbo so long as I could get my hands on 260 bhp on a FWD/MT6/LSD small ride... THAT would be the true spirit of the GSR.

That would differentiate it from the Civic Si and bring back a very well known -and loved- brand.

Meanwhile, the K24 can go with both the MT6/LSD and then a nice AT6SS... I dare say that the AT'd K24 will sell like pancakes at IHOP on a saturday morning... It would be the newer, faster, lighter TSX.

Call this the GS.

Keep the nice R20 as it is, call it the LS.

Hmm..

ILX GSR, GS and LS....

Hmm.. call a spade a spade, huh? WAKE UP AHM....

Integra GSR, GS and LS.



Or why not resurrect the GT from N 600 GT-L, a Civic with K24 and 6MT/AT and call it Civic GT or GT-L for the top of the line luxuries. Then bring the Civic Si or/and R with Honda DNA. They can use the 1.6L turbo that is coming this year, or a modern version of the 2.0 L V6 Legend engine. Honda should be able to make a model that have a small displacement 4 or 6 that revs to 10000 rpm, why not do it with a car that anybody can buy instead of having cars like that offered only to rich people that buy LFA or Porsche? To supplement low end they can assist with IMA. Honda make 6 cyl 1.8L (1.5L) for MC, why not a car engine too. A 1.5 and 2.0 L V6 10000 rpm for the SI and R models, whether it be Fit, Civic or Accord.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 13:07
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
P54 wrote:
TonyE wrote:
Now that the RDX is going V6....

I think it would make sense for AHM to drop the K23T into the ILX, call it the Type S ( I prefer GS-R) and offer it with MT6 and LSD. I figure, I'd even take the plunge and live with a turbo so long as I could get my hands on 260 bhp on a FWD/MT6/LSD small ride... THAT would be the true spirit of the GSR.

That would differentiate it from the Civic Si and bring back a very well known -and loved- brand.

Meanwhile, the K24 can go with both the MT6/LSD and then a nice AT6SS... I dare say that the AT'd K24 will sell like pancakes at IHOP on a saturday morning... It would be the newer, faster, lighter TSX.

Call this the GS.

Keep the nice R20 as it is, call it the LS.

Hmm..

ILX GSR, GS and LS....

Hmm.. call a spade a spade, huh? WAKE UP AHM....

Integra GSR, GS and LS.



Or why not resurrect the GT from N 600 GT-L, a Civic with K24 and 6MT/AT and call it Civic GT or GT-L for the top of the line luxuries. Then bring the Civic Si or/and R with Honda DNA. They can use the 1.6L turbo that is coming this year, or a modern version of the 2.0 L V6 Legend engine. Honda should be able to make a model that have a small displacement 4 or 6 that revs to 10000 rpm, why not do it with a car that anybody can buy instead of having cars like that offered only to rich people that buy LFA or Porsche? To supplement low end they can assist with IMA. Honda make 6 cyl 1.8L (1.5L) for MC, why not a car engine too. A 1.5 and 2.0 L V6 10000 rpm for the SI and R models, whether it be Fit, Civic or Accord.



Whoaaaa there pardner!

I just was thinkin' about reusin' a motor... you've gone doggone all over the map.

But I do agree that technology should be available to all, not just the rich tinkerers with their overpriced toys. That's what made Honda so good... DOHC, 16 valves, VTEC, etc.. under 20K...(used to be 10K).. while Ferrari and Porsche charged through the nose.
Honda Dream
Profile for Honda Dream
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 14:31
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyE wrote:
Now that the RDX is going V6....

I think it would make sense for AHM to drop the K23T into the ILX, call it the Type S ( I prefer GS-R) and offer it with MT6 and LSD. I figure, I'd even take the plunge and live with a turbo so long as I could get my hands on 260 bhp on a FWD/MT6/LSD small ride... THAT would be the true spirit of the GSR.

That would differentiate it from the Civic Si and bring back a very well known -and loved- brand.

Meanwhile, the K24 can go with both the MT6/LSD and then a nice AT6SS... I dare say that the AT'd K24 will sell like pancakes at IHOP on a saturday morning... It would be the newer, faster, lighter TSX.

Call this the GS.

Keep the nice R20 as it is, call it the LS.

Hmm..

ILX GSR, GS and LS....

Hmm.. call a spade a spade, huh? WAKE UP AHM....

Integra GSR, GS and LS.



K23T sounds great for top sporty ILX. I think with today's tires you can easily use 300hp engine like in Ford Focus RS (there is even a stronger version, I believe). We also have the TSX with 280hp FWD and much stronger low end then in K23T... The idea of turbo engine in Acura ILX is quite good and it can be easily adjusted to modern smog standards.
auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 14:58
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply


K23T with ILX would be great for ILX.

However, I think offering 6AT on K24 ILX will be good enough to make significant number of potential buyers to seriously consider ILX.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 16:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
auto_enthu wrote:


K23T with ILX would be great for ILX.

However, I think offering 6AT on K24 ILX will be good enough to make significant number of potential buyers to seriously consider ILX.



It looks like the 6MT will be the only tranny for the K24.

"For those who seek a more dynamic driving experience, the ILX can be equipped with a 2.4-liter engine with an output of 201 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 170 lb-ft torque at 4,300 rpm. Mated to a close-ratio, six-speed manual transmission, the ILX 2.4L will deliver an EPA estimated* city/highway fuel economy of 20/29 mpg."
siegen
Profile for siegen
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 17:12
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I'm not a turbo fan. How about 240 HP K24 in ILX coupe with the ITR treatment (weight reduction, suspension, etc) and of course 6MT/LSD.
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 17:21
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
superchg2 wrote:
auto_enthu wrote:


K23T with ILX would be great for ILX.

However, I think offering 6AT on K24 ILX will be good enough to make significant number of potential buyers to seriously consider ILX.



It looks like the 6MT will be the only tranny for the K24.

"For those who seek a more dynamic driving experience, the ILX can be equipped with a 2.4-liter engine with an output of 201 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 170 lb-ft torque at 4,300 rpm. Mated to a close-ratio, six-speed manual transmission, the ILX 2.4L will deliver an EPA estimated* city/highway fuel economy of 20/29 mpg."



BUT... as I noted, the K24 is already offered with an AT5SS in the TSX.... so the K24/AT5S ILX would sell like hot cakes.



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 17:28
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
siegen wrote:
I'm not a turbo fan. How about 240 HP K24 in ILX coupe with the ITR treatment (weight reduction, suspension, etc) and of course 6MT/LSD.


The K24 is rev limited and doesn't have true VTEC. It delivers the goods -torque- but it will never offer the "Type R" experience.

In order to do this, a higher redline is required. Hence, a smaller engine with a shorter stroke.

In the short term.perhaps the K23T as tuned in the RDX makes little sense, but with the lighter ILX it could be tuned differently, with more torque low down and hopefully a higher redline than the K24.

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=644971

Obviously, a tuned K22 would make the most sense, but it would be down in torque with the K24 so you'd get a weird dilemma where the more powerful car would be slower off the line, hence the reason why I figured that a retuned K23T would solve the issue. After all, the engine already exists...
gogzy
Profile for gogzy
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2012 01:53
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
i don't think we will see it...Honda has use all it's might to reduce cost and now even the Si lost K20. if i am not mistaken, Honda had completely remove the K20 from its global offering. with RDX move to J35, it means Honda also ditching K23T. I say Honda is going to top for cost cutting..... the only K we are going to see, is the pure gold ....K......
Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2012 08:48
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I don't think the current K23T would match up well with an ILX GS-R/Type S/Type-R because I find it hard to keep it on boost in the RDX, granted that's with the 5AT. It's all or nothing at times with throttle inputs. And then under certain conditions such as merging into freeway traffic you can easily be at full boost with plenty of pedal left but you get zero from that pedal travel. I keep thinking our 1st gen RDX would have been a brilliant car with a J30 and that SH-AWD.

A boosted-4 ILX seems like a good idea but I think it would need to be a new setup with a much different tune for a single turbo, a twin sequential small/mid-size turbo combo, or maybe a supercharger.
Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2012 10:22
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
gogzy wrote:
i don't think we will see it...Honda has use all it's might to reduce cost and now even the Si lost K20. if i am not mistaken, Honda had completely remove the K20 from its global offering. with RDX move to J35, it means Honda also ditching K23T. I say Honda is going to top for cost cutting..... the only K we are going to see, is the pure gold ....K......

I don't know about cost cutting, but isn't the K20 like the F20/22 and the C30/32 was cut because they can't reach desired emission limit or something. Something to do with byproduct of the engine emission during high revs.
Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-26-2012 11:10
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyE wrote:
siegen wrote:
I'm not a turbo fan. How about 240 HP K24 in ILX coupe with the ITR treatment (weight reduction, suspension, etc) and of course 6MT/LSD.


The K24 is rev limited and doesn't have true VTEC. It delivers the goods -torque- but it will never offer the "Type R" experience.

In order to do this, a higher redline is required. Hence, a smaller engine with a shorter stroke.

In the short term.perhaps the K23T as tuned in the RDX makes little sense, but with the lighter ILX it could be tuned differently, with more torque low down and hopefully a higher redline than the K24.

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=644971

Obviously, a tuned K22 would make the most sense, but it would be down in torque with the K24 so you'd get a weird dilemma where the more powerful car would be slower off the line, hence the reason why I figured that a retuned K23T would solve the issue. After all, the engine already exists...


I posted my opinion about the ILX having a limited edition run fitted with the K23T a while back... Off course, my idea is for it to be a limited run, just for the hell of it. But a trim level that harkens back to the old days is quite nice.

From business sense, plopping a K23T on the ILX is a no brainer. The engine is there, the turbo lag can still be tuned in, and if the K24 fits, the K23T will also fit barring intercooler placement. However, from perception point of view, Honda management won't do it bar none.

They tried tirelessly to change the racer boy image from the Acura brand as so happen the Integra was a double edge sword. From one point it's a technological tour de force, beating out V8 powered cars with reliability to boot, but on the other hand, it's also the go to car for... People who aren't in Acura customer point of reference... Is it convoluted enough as not to offend people?

I would hate it if Honda/Acura management dull the ILX with the so so engine offering. Next to the second gen TL and second gen TSX, the ILX is the best looking sedan from Acura, and with its "variation of themes", a hardcore version is begging.

When the rumor started that a car going to replace TSX (Accord Euro), I died a little... But when looking at the ILX, hey, the TSX is dated anyway. Now shove a 240hp engine in there, don't care if it's turbo or V6 or cartwheel with jacked rat labs, this car deserves better.
typer_801
Profile for typer_801
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-27-2012 09:42
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
K20 was cut in Europe because of emissions...not sure about Japan. Don't believe emissions played a part in US discontinuation.

Midi_Amp wrote:
gogzy wrote:
i don't think we will see it...Honda has use all it's might to reduce cost and now even the Si lost K20. if i am not mistaken, Honda had completely remove the K20 from its global offering. with RDX move to J35, it means Honda also ditching K23T. I say Honda is going to top for cost cutting..... the only K we are going to see, is the pure gold ....K......

I don't know about cost cutting, but isn't the K20 like the F20/22 and the C30/32 was cut because they can't reach desired emission limit or something. Something to do with byproduct of the engine emission during high revs.


gogzy
Profile for gogzy
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-27-2012 12:18
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
the K20 was cut due to emission.. or was it cut due to Honda's unwillingness to spend on development for continuing the life of K20? if the high rpm was the only cause to the emission issue, Honda can simply reduce redline and everything in engine stay the same (then we know it can still rev to the old limit!!). remember hos much $$$ and time honda spend on "plasma" technology to get diesel into North America without "pissing"? I felt emission is just an excuse... the only thing in their eye is the pure, 24/24 K gold.
CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-28-2012 12:28
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Grace141 wrote:
I don't think the current K23T would match up well with an ILX GS-R/Type S/Type-R because I find it hard to keep it on boost in the RDX, granted that's with the 5AT. It's all or nothing at times with throttle inputs. And then under certain conditions such as merging into freeway traffic you can easily be at full boost with plenty of pedal left but you get zero from that pedal travel. I keep thinking our 1st gen RDX would have been a brilliant car with a J30 and that SH-AWD.

A boosted-4 ILX seems like a good idea but I think it would need to be a new setup with a much different tune for a single turbo, a twin sequential small/mid-size turbo combo, or maybe a supercharger.



The J30 was a great V6 but it wouldnt be sufficient in a 4000lb SUV as it simply doesn't have the grunt of the k23t. I wish Acura would have kept the k23t and implemented some technologies like DI and a twin scroll turbine for better efficiency and response. The biggest culprit however was the long geared and slow 5AT. With the new 6AT and the aforementioned technologies I think it would have been a much better drive train. With that said, Acura needs to push the envelope asthey need a more diverse line of engine offerings.

~Patrick
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: ILX GSR with K23T?    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-28-2012 19:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CivicB18 wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
I don't think the current K23T would match up well with an ILX GS-R/Type S/Type-R because I find it hard to keep it on boost in the RDX, granted that's with the 5AT. It's all or nothing at times with throttle inputs. And then under certain conditions such as merging into freeway traffic you can easily be at full boost with plenty of pedal left but you get zero from that pedal travel. I keep thinking our 1st gen RDX would have been a brilliant car with a J30 and that SH-AWD.

A boosted-4 ILX seems like a good idea but I think it would need to be a new setup with a much different tune for a single turbo, a twin sequential small/mid-size turbo combo, or maybe a supercharger.



The J30 was a great V6 but it wouldnt be sufficient in a 4000lb SUV as it simply doesn't have the grunt of the k23t. I wish Acura would have kept the k23t and implemented some technologies like DI and a twin scroll turbine for better efficiency and response. The biggest culprit however was the long geared and slow 5AT. With the new 6AT and the aforementioned technologies I think it would have been a much better drive train. With that said, Acura needs to push the envelope asthey need a more diverse line of engine offerings.

~Patrick


I don't believe Honda has offered any I-4's with 6 speed automatic's, including the upcoming ILX. Mention was made of a dual-clutch automatic, but it looks like Honda motorcycles will get it before the cars do. The new Accord appears to be getting a CVT as part of it's Earth Dreams drivetrain.

"Our associates have incredible experience and we are counting on them to help us introduce an even higher level of powertrain technology for our customers," Anna Engine Plant Manager, John Spoltman, said. "The new CVT technology will be mated with Honda's new Earth Dreams 2.4-liter direct-injection engine, which will also be produced here at the Anna Engine Plant."
 
Thread Page - [1]
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2014 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
mobile: 0