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TOV Forums > Today's Reading Links > > Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14

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Nick GravesX
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Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2012 11:44
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via Automotive News Europe:


FRANKFURT -- Honda, hit by a dramatic appreciation in the yen, does not expect to be profitable in Europe until 2013/2014 when 80 percent of cars sold will be sourced from its British plant.

Despite two straight years of losses and a market share of just over 1 percent, Honda Europe President Manabu Nishimae said the carmaker had no plans to exit what is regarded as a fiercely competitive market crowded by competitors offering margin-eroding incentives to chase declining volumes.

"The European car market is all about high technology and beautiful design, both for the exterior and interior. So our reputation among European customers affects demand in other regions," Nishimae said on Monday.

To better weatherproof the brand in Europe, Nishimae said he was looking every day for ways to cut its exposure to the yen, which finished off 2011 at a 10-year high to the euro.


Imports into Europe presently make up 40 percent of Honda's sales in the region, including all Honda Accords, rendering many of the vehicles uncompetitive at current yen rates.


"In Japan we will focus on the production of small and mini vehicles for the Japanese market," he said.


Nishimae said he wants to reduce imports to 20 percent or less as soon as the company doubles annual output in its plant in Swindon, England, to nearly 180,000 vehicle this year.

Honda also is considering whether to import Accords from the United States in the future, which could potentially cut down shipping times to about seven days from over four weeks.


Nishimae additionally plans to hire more engineers to help inspect and certify the quality of European suppliers, from which Honda could then procure components. Only about 60 percent of the auto parts Swindon currently sources are from Europe.


"We are trying to increase local content month by month, even day by day. That's why we would like to increase our R&D employees - without doing so it's going to be difficult to expand local procurement," he said.


After missing out on sales of an extra 22,000 cars in 2011 because natural disasters in Japan and Thailand tore a hole in its supply chain, Nishimae expects sales this year to jump by around 25 percent to 198,000 vehicles in a market estimated to shrink.

By 2014 or 2015, Honda will be back to selling over 300,000 vehicles in Europe - a level it last reached five years ago.

26 million engines

Nishimae brushed off concerns over whether Honda could continue to stem by itself the ever-growing funding costs for new fuel-saving technology over car volumes forecasted at 4 million vehicles in the upcoming 2012/13 fiscal year.

"I would not say we will never enter into an alliance. If we could gain access to technology we don't have, then we're flexible, but for now we have no specific plans," he said, adding that a key gap in its powertrain portfolio will be filled with the addition of a new, light 1.6-liter diesel engine.

He said Honda's cash needs should not rise on a relative basis anyway, since it would continue spending roughly 5 percent of annual group revenue on research and development and maintain investment levels that simply replace its depreciating capital goods.

One of Honda's major advantages over competitors is that r&d spending on improving combustion engine efficiency can be spread across the more than 6 million industrial motors sold in addition to its annual car volumes as well as another 16 million motorcycles that Honda also builds.


No to Ducati

When asked whether Honda might be interested in acquiring Italian premium brand Ducati, which sells only about 40,000 motorbikes a year, Nishimae ruled out any interest.

"We can't see any technological benefit if we were to purchase Ducati. And we want to focus on the Honda brand, not on the Ducati brand," he said.

Italian private equity firm Investindustrial has said it hopes to get about 1 billion euros ($1.33 billion) for the maker of the 1199 Panigale superbike.

Source: Reuters


danielgr
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Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2012 18:30
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thanks for sharing.
The most revealing bit for me:
this seems to confirm the death of the japan-made Accord/Tsx. The next Gen will likely be made and supplied by the USA.

I would expect it to be Acura 's new mid-size sedan set to replace the TSX/TL combo (whatever it's called)

Still don't believe those pointing out at the ilx for that purpose, cause despite being a nice affordable entry level luxury for the us it wouldn't make the cut in the European market against 3series and a4's..


Last edited by danielgr on 02-21-2012 18:31
Fan Koni
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Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2012 20:05
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The TSX isn't up against the 3 or A4 at all in Europe, mostly because of Brand perception & finance options. A4 &3 are very often company cars because of that.
The civic isn't up against 1 series or A3 either.

This is really news (or just talked up):
By 2014 or 2015, Honda will be back to selling over 300,000 vehicles in Europe

The EU Market is not about to really grow. So Honda will have to take some serious share of competitors.

This sounds great for Swindon but I dont think just CRV, Civic and then a new Jazz with the 1.6 diesel are supposed to do the trick alone.

For me this is almost confirming that Acura models have to step in to fill this gap.

I wonder what Honda plans in EU on the niche little hybrids - jazz, civic, Insight & CRZ. Maybe they will be split over China & NA.
It would surprise me if Honda would soon build IMA systems in Swindon, its not really enough demand to justify it.
P54
Profile for P54
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2012 20:47
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Honda has said they will come out with one new major product every year for next four years. New things are on the way.
Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-21-2012 21:50
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danielgr wrote:
thanks for sharing.
The most revealing bit for me:
this seems to confirm the death of the japan-made Accord/Tsx. The next Gen will likely be made and supplied by the USA.

I would expect it to be Acura 's new mid-size sedan set to replace the TSX/TL combo (whatever it's called)

Still don't believe those pointing out at the ilx for that purpose, cause despite being a nice affordable entry level luxury for the us it wouldn't make the cut in the European market against 3series and a4's..


If Honda spins the turbo-4 from the BTCC/WTCC engines into production and fit it into the ILX, I bet it would sell. Seems everything needs to be force inducted to sell in Europe nowadays, any car from Honda that isn't FI would just be bashed by the media.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2012 00:05
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The problem right now is that Europe is bankrupt. Most automakers are projecting losses over the next few years until Greece stops asking the Euro-zone to wipe its ass. For Honda to project any growth in this market at this point is amazing- I almost wonder if it's worth it.
HondaJet
Profile for HondaJet
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2012 01:08
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"We can't see any technological benefit if we were to purchase Ducati."
I'd say that's a nice thing to say, "sarcastically".

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2012 03:40
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CarPhreakD wrote:
The problem right now is that Europe is bankrupt. Most automakers are projecting losses over the next few years until Greece stops asking the Euro-zone to wipe its ass. For Honda to project any growth in this market at this point is amazing- I almost wonder if it's worth it.

not that amazing if you consider their sales have halved in a few years, just as their lineup has shrunk and their marketing presence and production nearly disappeared.

It's enough for them to be willing to sell to do better... Which doesn't mean good, simply better...
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2012 06:13
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Fan Koni wrote:
The TSX isn't up against the 3 or A4 at all in Europe, mostly because of Brand perception & finance options. A4 &3 are very often company cars because of that.
The civic isn't up against 1 series or A3 either.

This is really news (or just talked up):
By 2014 or 2015, Honda will be back to selling over 300,000 vehicles in Europe

The EU Market is not about to really grow. So Honda will have to take some serious share of competitors.

This sounds great for Swindon but I dont think just CRV, Civic and then a new Jazz with the 1.6 diesel are supposed to do the trick alone.

For me this is almost confirming that Acura models have to step in to fill this gap.

I wonder what Honda plans in EU on the niche little hybrids - jazz, civic, Insight & CRZ. Maybe they will be split over China & NA.
It would surprise me if Honda would soon build IMA systems in Swindon, its not really enough demand to justify it.



You've forgotten the CUV - I should imagine that's what the additional capacity (another line) in 2013 is for. The irony is, there's chronic overcapacity in EU, yet we still expand car plants!

I don't think hybrids will catch on quickly here - not least because of the 1.6 Diesel.

They mention it's ONE gap in their engine range filled - which is encouraging.

It's also encouraging they realise the importance of developing cars in EU to RoW. They do actually get it!

I'm uncertain as to which "US Accord" we'll get. I should imagine it will be off that plank, rather than the ILX which is a Civic plank.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-22-2012 08:25
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CarPhreakD wrote:
The problem right now is that Europe is bankrupt. Most automakers are projecting losses over the next few years until Greece stops asking the Euro-zone to wipe its ass. For Honda to project any growth in this market at this point is amazing- I almost wonder if it's worth it.


Actually, the entire western world is bankrupt. The worst part is, some (mainly US) nutjobs using superstition to tell everyone it's their god-given right to sort it all out by starting world war 3 and the rupture so all arseholes will ascend to heaven or somesuch...

Meanwhile, another bunch of nutjobs are trying to Ponzi all of the wealth out of the masses who actually buy these type of cars for their own selfish gain. This means that anyone with money might as well spend it on a new car, before it's worthless. There definitely will be a two-speed economy. Look how well Honda is doing in the US, which is the original dead man walking for an example.

That's reflected in EU by the German companies, most of whom it seems can do no wrong and are highly profitable. The UK car industry is moving in a likewise direction. The exception being the clusterf uck that is MG (hereinafter referred to as MSG) and the alliance with flaky Renault is undermining Nissan's success in Sunderland. Hyundai & Chevrolet are of course doing OK too, but the looooosers are of course the old bourgeoise manufacturers; PSA, Opel and the Sopranos. No-one knows WTF SEAT is for, anyway.

Thus, having cut back on its plans when Fedageddon started, Honda has to act on a 'going concern' basis and assume that it can win a workable share of the EU market. You have also to bear in mind that several existing players above may well fall; you can place your bets on which won't be here in five years' time.

At this juncture, it doesn't make sense for Honda to throw its hand & sell Swindon to the Chinese. I am sure that the management in Japan had been humbled by the rebuking it's recently received and they can see their way to letting Offenbach develop europe-competitive vehicles again.


Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 00:36
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Nick Graves wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
The TSX isn't up against the 3 or A4 at all in Europe, mostly because of Brand perception & finance options. A4 &3 are very often company cars because of that.
The civic isn't up against 1 series or A3 either.

This is really news (or just talked up):
By 2014 or 2015, Honda will be back to selling over 300,000 vehicles in Europe

The EU Market is not about to really grow. So Honda will have to take some serious share of competitors.

This sounds great for Swindon but I dont think just CRV, Civic and then a new Jazz with the 1.6 diesel are supposed to do the trick alone.

For me this is almost confirming that Acura models have to step in to fill this gap.

I wonder what Honda plans in EU on the niche little hybrids - jazz, civic, Insight & CRZ. Maybe they will be split over China & NA.
It would surprise me if Honda would soon build IMA systems in Swindon, its not really enough demand to justify it.



You've forgotten the CUV - I should imagine that's what the additional capacity (another line) in 2013 is for. The irony is, there's chronic overcapacity in EU, yet we still expand car plants!

I don't think hybrids will catch on quickly here - not least because of the 1.6 Diesel.

They mention it's ONE gap in their engine range filled - which is encouraging.

It's also encouraging they realise the importance of developing cars in EU to RoW. They do actually get it!

I'm uncertain as to which "US Accord" we'll get. I should imagine it will be off that plank, rather than the ILX which is a Civic plank.




Really I dont know about the bagpuss CUV (project Garfield?) - yes its growing, but every brand is into it Nissan, PSA, cross VWs...
So if Honda wants some proper share (like 50K p.a.?) what magic can they put in it? Obvious thing for me is hybrid - looking at the success of the jazz. But then it wouldnt be made in Swindon or?

A small 1.6 diesel is just average - no prizes to get here anymore.

The thing about developing cars for ROW - like the euro civic & euro accord. Then only the later has made some global success, but how much of it was actually done in Japan? I think the majority.

Are they talking about diesels or even diesel hybrids? Maybe the interior is maybe a thing - in Germany there are many professional suppliers, but they followed the industry around the globe too. Or actually design? Maybe suspension - but Honda is quite good here. Electronics wouldnt be much better than maybe Japan. I really wonder.

I think the new global accord will have a lot from the current euro accord/TSX. I think it is the more refined car and I think they can build on a few options they made in Japan, e.g. the V6, wagon, diesel. Maybe even awd.
superchg
Profile for superchg
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 04:16
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Nick Graves wrote:
The worst part is, some (mainly US) nutjobs using superstition to tell everyone it's their god-given right to sort it all out by starting world war 3 and the rupture so all arseholes will ascend to heaven or somesuch...

Look how well Honda is doing in the US, which is the original dead man walking for an example.


Nick, I guess we are all just waiting for the rupture, then we can all be dead men walking!
:)
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 05:33
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superchg wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
The worst part is, some (mainly US) nutjobs using superstition to tell everyone it's their god-given right to sort it all out by starting world war 3 and the rupture so all arseholes will ascend to heaven or somesuch...

Look how well Honda is doing in the US, which is the original dead man walking for an example.


Nick, I guess we are all just waiting for the rupture, then we can all be dead men walking!
:)



Devil's risin'; you don't stand a chance,
Devil's risin'; you don't stand a chance,
Devil's risin'; shake dem bones & dance.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 05:47
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Fan Koni wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
The TSX isn't up against the 3 or A4 at all in Europe, mostly because of Brand perception & finance options. A4 &3 are very often company cars because of that.
The civic isn't up against 1 series or A3 either.

This is really news (or just talked up):
By 2014 or 2015, Honda will be back to selling over 300,000 vehicles in Europe

The EU Market is not about to really grow. So Honda will have to take some serious share of competitors.

This sounds great for Swindon but I dont think just CRV, Civic and then a new Jazz with the 1.6 diesel are supposed to do the trick alone.

For me this is almost confirming that Acura models have to step in to fill this gap.

I wonder what Honda plans in EU on the niche little hybrids - jazz, civic, Insight & CRZ. Maybe they will be split over China & NA.
It would surprise me if Honda would soon build IMA systems in Swindon, its not really enough demand to justify it.



You've forgotten the CUV - I should imagine that's what the additional capacity (another line) in 2013 is for. The irony is, there's chronic overcapacity in EU, yet we still expand car plants!

I don't think hybrids will catch on quickly here - not least because of the 1.6 Diesel.

They mention it's ONE gap in their engine range filled - which is encouraging.

It's also encouraging they realise the importance of developing cars in EU to RoW. They do actually get it!

I'm uncertain as to which "US Accord" we'll get. I should imagine it will be off that plank, rather than the ILX which is a Civic plank.




Really I dont know about the bagpuss CUV (project Garfield?) - yes its growing, but every brand is into it Nissan, PSA, cross VWs...
So if Honda wants some proper share (like 50K p.a.?) what magic can they put in it? Obvious thing for me is hybrid - looking at the success of the jazz. But then it wouldnt be made in Swindon or?

A small 1.6 diesel is just average - no prizes to get here anymore.

The thing about developing cars for ROW - like the euro civic & euro accord. Then only the later has made some global success, but how much of it was actually done in Japan? I think the majority.

Are they talking about diesels or even diesel hybrids? Maybe the interior is maybe a thing - in Germany there are many professional suppliers, but they followed the industry around the globe too. Or actually design? Maybe suspension - but Honda is quite good here. Electronics wouldnt be much better than maybe Japan. I really wonder.

I think the new global accord will have a lot from the current euro accord/TSX. I think it is the more refined car and I think they can build on a few options they made in Japan, e.g. the V6, wagon, diesel. Maybe even awd.



I think it's the development to "exacting euro standards" which helps the engineers back in Japan. Offenbach does testing & tweaking.

The point is, C & especcially D segment saloons are dying off - Honda needs the 1.6D & Garfield just to be competitive over here.

If it's a Bagpuss on stilts a la Subaru XV, it will be too little to capture much of the market.

But a more stylish (if you can call the Puke stylish) sort of crossover might actually get them the volume they require.

There is also talk of a sub-Jazz A or B-segment. Whether thats a bit more youthful (like the N600 replica previewed) that would certainly help the market grow.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 06:31
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Nick Graves wrote:

But a more stylish (if you can call the Puke stylish) sort of crossover might actually get them the volume they require.



The hell with stylish, Nick. I'd like to drive one one of these Puke (Juke) R's!!!




Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 11:34
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To hell with CUVs; I wouldn't mind something like that made out of a CR-Z!

More Godzilla than Bagpuss.
P54
Profile for P54
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 12:31
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Nick Graves wrote:
superchg wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
The worst part is, some (mainly US) nutjobs using superstition to tell everyone it's their god-given right to sort it all out by starting world war 3 and the rupture so all arseholes will ascend to heaven or somesuch...

Look how well Honda is doing in the US, which is the original dead man walking for an example.


Nick, I guess we are all just waiting for the rupture, then we can all be dead men walking!
:)



Devil's risin'; you don't stand a chance,
Devil's risin'; you don't stand a chance,
Devil's risin'; shake dem bones & dance.



Actually it is Iran that proclaim they have been given the role to start "Armageddon". Their Allah is supporting them in this, according to their book. Now when this hell on earth breaks loose here is the promise: Those that have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior will be RAPTURED, caught up to heaven, while the earth will be ruptured into hell.

In Europe and Middle East some groups of people cry "Government go to hell", Police go to hell", "UK go to hell", "USA go to hell", Jews go to hell", "Democracy go to hell", "Freedom go to hell" and "God bless Hitler".

Is this where Nick's word come into play:

Devil's risin'; you don't stand a chance


In countries where he rules women are stoned to death, gays are beaten to death or hanged, people are beheaded and you are tortured and killed for believing in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is risen, shake them bones & dance.

Devil can beat you, torture you and kill you and you are still on the winning side. Christ conquered death.



bigblue
Profile for bigblue
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 17:03
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I believe you guys have wandered some way off-topic here ... how can I help ... oh yeah the Euro Civic has a torsion beam rear suspension so surely that means you guys wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole ;-)
bigblue
Profile for bigblue
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 18:12
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And to contribute something really on-topic ...

"Half the car industry is holed below the water line [...] The European new car market sales figures for January make the extent of this divergence starkly clear. [...] month-on-month [...] Honda (-24)" Autocar

On the full year 2011 in the UK, "The UK car market fell 4.4% in 2011 [...] It's the same story across the board: the brands without an influx of new models - and especially the right sort of models - saw buyers desert in droves: Fiat, Mitsubishi and Honda suffered a sales crash of around a fifth, while Renault's woes were highlighted by a 28%" (the figures also show the Nissan Qashqai as the 9th best selling car in the UK behind small to medium hatcbacks and a couple of small saloons) Car Magazine.

That's pretty bad for Honda, so let's hope the following is the start of a fightback, "Honda will show its new 1.6-litre diesel engine at the 2012 Geneva motor show. It's the first of a suite of new engines being developed under the Earth Dreams Technology banner in the next three years (Honda)" Car Magazine.

P54
Profile for P54
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 19:20
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What about this 1.6L turbo Civic, with side mounted exhaust. Do you think it will bring interest back to Honda vehicles?





sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 22:38
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ummm P54 that's the BTCC Civic and it runs a K20 Turbo :)
P54
Profile for P54
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-23-2012 23:21
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Sorry, I guess I remembered wrong, I mixed the BTCC car with the WTCC car which is going to use a 1.6L DI turbo engine.



sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-24-2012 00:50
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Nothing to be sorry about, it can get confusing! We'll have to wait till the Japanese round towards the end of the season to see the 1.6 Turbo make it's race debut..............I'm looking forward to it!
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Honda Europe aims to be profitable in 2013/14    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-24-2012 05:38
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bigblue wrote:
And to contribute something really on-topic ...

"Half the car industry is holed below the water line [...] The European new car market sales figures for January make the extent of this divergence starkly clear. [...] month-on-month [...] Honda (-24)" Autocar

On the full year 2011 in the UK, "The UK car market fell 4.4% in 2011 [...] It's the same story across the board: the brands without an influx of new models - and especially the right sort of models - saw buyers desert in droves: Fiat, Mitsubishi and Honda suffered a sales crash of around a fifth, while Renault's woes were highlighted by a 28%" (the figures also show the Nissan Qashqai as the 9th best selling car in the UK behind small to medium hatcbacks and a couple of small saloons) Car Magazine.

That's pretty bad for Honda, so let's hope the following is the start of a fightback, "Honda will show its new 1.6-litre diesel engine at the 2012 Geneva motor show. It's the first of a suite of new engines being developed under the Earth Dreams Technology banner in the next three years (Honda)" Car Magazine.




Exactly my points.

Remember that the European Soviet Socialist Republic was subsidising cars under a cash for plumpers scheme. Now that's ended, a lot of the 'junk' brands' sales are plummetting.

It's prestige or Kiaundai/Teir 5, these days. Same the world over and Honda didn't need to be caught in Teir 3/4 with the Fords & Renaults & Opels & Peugeots & stuff. They really ought to have remained closer to Teir 2.

Honda's range is, to be fair, pretty much all at the end of its model cycle at once, as usual.

The sort of models which are selling tend to be the upmarket A/B segments & the small CUVs, none of which Honda has.

So they've pretty much shot themselves in both feet on product planning. But it cannot actually get any worse for them, unless the QC problems that has started affecting the FK Civics become well-known. Whether that's due to sourcing more components in the EU or other issues, I don't know.

Personally, I'd not rule out buying a car just because of a Torsion Beam axle - they can be very effective. It's extremely unlikely that I'd buy a new Honda for a lot of other reasons though. That's unimportant; what IS important is that Honda has enough appeal to sell to a lot of other people over here and recovers its position.

 
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