[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
New footage of the NSX testing on the Nordschleife
More.......................
2016 ILX and 2015 HR-V to debut at 2014 Los Angeles Auto Show
More.......................
New Acura and Honda Products Fuel Surge in September Automobile Sales
More.......................
2015 CR-V goes on sale tomorrow. Full details released.
More.......................
All-new Honda Civic Type R: unrivalled against the brand's iconic performance flagship models
More.......................
Honda reveals 2015 CR-V
More.......................
Honda adds Special Edition trim level to 2015 Civic Lineup
More.......................
Honda releases sales figures for August 2014
More.......................
TLX --> Re: Official TLX I4 0 - 60 test
Join Discussion......
TLX --> Re: Look what just arrived!
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: New Civic Type R Promo
Join Discussion......
RLX --> Re: 2016 RLX MMC?
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: New Honda Grace Hybrid to be launched in Japan
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: MT COTY Contender: Honda Fit
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Rolled's dream car
Join Discussion......
Accord CrossTour --> Re: its been a year...
Join Discussion......
TLX --> Re: TLX V6 SH-AWD vs Volvo S60 T6
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Future of sports cars
Join Discussion......
Fit (and Jazz) --> Re: Honda Grace (JDM City hybrid) website is up
Join Discussion......
HR-V/Vezel --> Re: Brazil's HR-V unveiled with R18+CVT (likely same as NA)
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: R&T Article on the Current State of F1
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: SUV for Rough urban roads?
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: F1 - 2014 United States Grand Prix
Join Discussion......
TOV First Drive: 2015 Acura TLX
Read Article....................
Photo Gallery: 2015 Acura TLX 2.4 P-AWS
Read Article....................
Photo Gallery: 2015 Acura TLX 3.5L SH-AWD
Read Article....................
TOV Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
TOV Dyno Test: 2014 Accord Hybrid
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > Today's Reading Links > > Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1] 2
Author
  Post New Thread
auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 00:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1202_2012_bmw_328i_sport_first_test/

Seems that 328i is much better balanced and has better handling than 335i. Good for those looking to buy 3-series.
superchg
Profile for superchg
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 01:20
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Pretty pricey for a 4 cylinder though, at $50,870 as equipped!
It always seems like Beemer's come through with at least $15,000 in options.
CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 01:50
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Edmunds just dynoed this car with the 8AT and it made 240hp and 257ftlbs AT THE WHEELS! I imagine with a bit more break in time it may even gain a bit more power. Seriously underrated!

Combine that with great driving dynamics, increased comfort and the fact that it's more fun to drive vs its faster big brother (the 335i) and it BLOWS away the A4 2.0t, TSX V6, C300, Infiniti G25 and the IS250. Add to that its great mix of performance and economy and what's not to like? Quite a package if you ask me.


~Patrick
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 05:53
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
superchg wrote:
Pretty pricey for a 4 cylinder though, at $50,870 as equipped!
It always seems like Beemer's come through with at least $15,000 in options.



That's usually how they do so well in tests - it's hard to remember half the thing is options, when test-driving it and to imagine they're not there.

A four-cylinder BMW? Didn't that used to be called a Honda?
P54
Profile for P54
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 10:21
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nick Graves wrote:
superchg wrote:
Pretty pricey for a 4 cylinder though, at $50,870 as equipped!
It always seems like Beemer's come through with at least $15,000 in options.



That's usually how they do so well in tests - it's hard to remember half the thing is options, when test-driving it and to imagine they're not there.

A four-cylinder BMW? Didn't that used to be called a Honda?



BMW is hard at work on future models, while Acura replaced the 4 cyl. turbo with a V6, BMW went from I6 to 4 cyl. turbo.

But that is only the beginning at BMW, they acknowledge that current technology has been taken as far as it can go and this is what they work on for the future: a 3 cyl. engine



Peter Nefischer, head of engine development for BMW, has said the automaker is currently working on developing three-cylinder engines to be used across the company's vehicle line. The powerplants would likely be different than the one found in the BMW i8 and wouldn't be partnered with an electric motor. Instead, engineers would turn to forced induction to maintain acceptable power levels. Nefischer said engineers have gone as far as possible with current engine technology, and the next step is smaller, more powerful variants.

So, when can we expect to see a three-cylinder 3 Series hit the streets? According to the report, the vehicle could be here in two years. BMW has already demonstrated the sort of gains that can be made by dropping cylinder count. Just look at the F30 328i with the vehicle's impressive power and fuel economy as an example. Will BMW bring 3 Series to the table with half the cylinders of the tried-and-true I6? Stranger things have happened.




typer_801
Profile for typer_801
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 10:37
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Yeah, but it's $50K. Ouch!

CivicB18 wrote:
Edmunds just dynoed this car with the 8AT and it made 240hp and 257ftlbs AT THE WHEELS! I imagine with a bit more break in time it may even gain a bit more power. Seriously underrated!

Combine that with great driving dynamics, increased comfort and the fact that it's more fun to drive vs its faster big brother (the 335i) and it BLOWS away the A4 2.0t, TSX V6, C300, Infiniti G25 and the IS250. Add to that its great mix of performance and economy and what's not to like? Quite a package if you ask me.


~Patrick


NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 10:52
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
It's $50k fully loaded.

For $36k, you can either get a base FWD TL, or a base BMW 328i with handling that you'd probably have to get the $43k TL 6MT to match.

It's not apples to apples, so I'm not utterly bashing the TL, but for an enthusiast who cares less about 18 way power cup holders than steering feel and handling, it's clear who gives you the best choices.
Torque
Profile for Torque
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 11:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Most people won't remember this but the BMW 3 series up until sometime in the 80s were 4 cylinders so this isn't exactly BMW going backwards.

Comparing BMW and Honda engines apples to apples doesn't add up. BMW has built a range of engines from 4 cylinders all the way to 12 cylinders, NA, single turbo chargers and twin.

Honda has focused primarily on 4 and 6 cylinders. People seemed to love the idea of the 2.3T in the RDX or porting it over to an Acura sedan. Why all the hate for BMW when they employ a turbo charged four?

I guarantee most, if not all, of us would be ecstatic to have an engine like this in the ILX. But instead, we get leftovers.


NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 11:04
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Maybe the TL was an unfair comparison, as it's much closer to the 5-Series category.

The 3.5 TSX NON-tech package is much closer in price (only off by a few hundred). It's a little slower (about .3-.6 seconds) it would seem, gets much worse EPA mileage, handles alright but FWD leaves it a bit frumpy, but it probably comes standard with some nice amenities that the Bimmer doesn't.

This leaves your choice, basically, between electronic doodads and maybe some nicer interior appointments, or a slightly more basic car that's much more fun to drive.

Reliability and winter weather aside, I don't see it as much of a choice for someone who likes driving.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 12:07
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
P54 wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
superchg wrote:
Pretty pricey for a 4 cylinder though, at $50,870 as equipped!
It always seems like Beemer's come through with at least $15,000 in options.



That's usually how they do so well in tests - it's hard to remember half the thing is options, when test-driving it and to imagine they're not there.

A four-cylinder BMW? Didn't that used to be called a Honda?



BMW is hard at work on future models, while Acura replaced the 4 cyl. turbo with a V6, BMW went from I6 to 4 cyl. turbo.

But that is only the beginning at BMW, they acknowledge that current technology has been taken as far as it can go and this is what they work on for the future: a 3 cyl. engine



Peter Nefischer, head of engine development for BMW, has said the automaker is currently working on developing three-cylinder engines to be used across the company's vehicle line. The powerplants would likely be different than the one found in the BMW i8 and wouldn't be partnered with an electric motor. Instead, engineers would turn to forced induction to maintain acceptable power levels. Nefischer said engineers have gone as far as possible with current engine technology, and the next step is smaller, more powerful variants.

So, when can we expect to see a three-cylinder 3 Series hit the streets? According to the report, the vehicle could be here in two years. BMW has already demonstrated the sort of gains that can be made by dropping cylinder count. Just look at the F30 328i with the vehicle's impressive power and fuel economy as an example. Will BMW bring 3 Series to the table with half the cylinders of the tried-and-true I6? Stranger things have happened.







We've had 316s & 318s over here since the E21 & E30.

Like performance Diseasels, it don't make it right. There's an amusing animation about that somewhere...

BMW V8s are nice, but their cute little S6s were where it was at.
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 12:13
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Torque wrote:
Why all the hate for BMW when they employ a turbo charged four?




I think the main issue is that, ever since BMW introduced the I6 engine into the 3 series, it's been a huge success. It's one of the best, if not the best 6 cylinder engine in the market. It's extremely smooth, has a very unique sound track, and is eager to rev. It pretty much has a legendary status. And to be able to enjoy such great engine in an affordable 3 series is certainly very interesting.

With that said, the N20 is better in almost every other way - power, torque, fuel efficient, and technology. But to most BMW enthusiasts, it just doesn't sound right.
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 12:15
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
NoSpinZone wrote:
Maybe the TL was an unfair comparison, as it's much closer to the 5-Series category.

The 3.5 TSX NON-tech package is much closer in price (only off by a few hundred). It's a little slower (about .3-.6 seconds) it would seem, gets much worse EPA mileage, handles alright but FWD leaves it a bit frumpy, but it probably comes standard with some nice amenities that the Bimmer doesn't.

This leaves your choice, basically, between electronic doodads and maybe some nicer interior appointments, or a slightly more basic car that's much more fun to drive.

Reliability and winter weather aside, I don't see it as much of a choice for someone who likes driving.



The TSX V6 might have worse EPA mileage, but in a recent comparison test in Car and Driver, it got 28mpg in the world, on par with VW Passat CC 2.0T (200hp) and Buick Regal RS Turbo...and the TSX V6 absolutely destroyed both in a straight line.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 12:30
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Hondarulez wrote:
NoSpinZone wrote:
Maybe the TL was an unfair comparison, as it's much closer to the 5-Series category.

The 3.5 TSX NON-tech package is much closer in price (only off by a few hundred). It's a little slower (about .3-.6 seconds) it would seem, gets much worse EPA mileage, handles alright but FWD leaves it a bit frumpy, but it probably comes standard with some nice amenities that the Bimmer doesn't.

This leaves your choice, basically, between electronic doodads and maybe some nicer interior appointments, or a slightly more basic car that's much more fun to drive.

Reliability and winter weather aside, I don't see it as much of a choice for someone who likes driving.



The TSX V6 might have worse EPA mileage, but in a recent comparison test in Car and Driver, it got 28mpg in the world, on par with VW Passat CC 2.0T (200hp) and Buick Regal RS Turbo...and the TSX V6 absolutely destroyed both in a straight line.



I told you guys a couple years ago - that 3.5V6 in the TSX is impressive. Quick and fast (6.1 0-60, traction limited), and I romped it for 400+ miles on a road trip with a full load of 3 adults and a completely packed trunk and it easily returned over 29mpg (average speed was 80+mph). The car was delivering well over 30mpg at speeds in the 75-80mph range. If I had to drive from New York to LA, the TSX V6 would be one of my top choices of any vehicle available for sale. Fast, efficient, refined.

Where it falls short is in the chassis. It's too softly sprung for my tastes and it just doesn't have a lot of cornering grip, and there's far too much understeer.
MasterOfDaDomain
Profile for MasterOfDaDomain
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 12:55
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I like the F30 3 series more than the E90 3 series. I guess BMW picked the "30" for a reason (thinking about E30).

For enthusiasts, getting the Sport Line and 6MT would be sufficient and it's a easier to swallow 41K bill. Other things don't add much to the driving experience - or one could wait for the M Sport trim.

The size and design of the new 3 has made bigger BMWs irrelevant to me.
Powered by Honda
Profile for Powered by Honda
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 13:03
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
MasterOfDaDomain wrote:
I like the F30 3 series more than the E90 3 series. I guess BMW picked the "30" for a reason (thinking about E30).

For enthusiasts, getting the Sport Line and 6MT would be sufficient and it's a easier to swallow 41K bill. Other things don't add much to the driving experience - or one could wait for the M Sport trim.

The size and design of the new 3 has made bigger BMWs irrelevant to me.




A B C D E F

yep F30 is the new E30! or their modern interpretation.

I want to purchase a F30 asap.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 13:31
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Hondarulez wrote:
Torque wrote:
Why all the hate for BMW when they employ a turbo charged four?




I think the main issue is that, ever since BMW introduced the I6 engine into the 3 series, it's been a huge success. It's one of the best, if not the best 6 cylinder engine in the market. It's extremely smooth, has a very unique sound track, and is eager to rev. It pretty much has a legendary status. And to be able to enjoy such great engine in an affordable 3 series is certainly very interesting.

With that said, the N20 is better in almost every other way - power, torque, fuel efficient, and technology. But to most BMW enthusiasts, it just doesn't sound right.



It's all fine. Until you try one of their turbocharged straight-sixes!

I mean, an Isetta's OK until you try a proper car!
Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 16:26
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nick Graves wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
Torque wrote:
Why all the hate for BMW when they employ a turbo charged four?




I think the main issue is that, ever since BMW introduced the I6 engine into the 3 series, it's been a huge success. It's one of the best, if not the best 6 cylinder engine in the market. It's extremely smooth, has a very unique sound track, and is eager to rev. It pretty much has a legendary status. And to be able to enjoy such great engine in an affordable 3 series is certainly very interesting.

With that said, the N20 is better in almost every other way - power, torque, fuel efficient, and technology. But to most BMW enthusiasts, it just doesn't sound right.



It's all fine. Until you try one of their turbocharged straight-sixes!

I mean, an Isetta's OK until you try a proper car!



Great to drive, but its edens apple - they still have issues.
JP
Profile for JP
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 18:07
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
How can a car like that understeer with that weight distribution (V6 - 5AT)??

My common sense would say that it would oversteer instead...

Jeff wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
NoSpinZone wrote:
Maybe the TL was an unfair comparison, as it's much closer to the 5-Series category.

The 3.5 TSX NON-tech package is much closer in price (only off by a few hundred). It's a little slower (about .3-.6 seconds) it would seem, gets much worse EPA mileage, handles alright but FWD leaves it a bit frumpy, but it probably comes standard with some nice amenities that the Bimmer doesn't.

This leaves your choice, basically, between electronic doodads and maybe some nicer interior appointments, or a slightly more basic car that's much more fun to drive.

Reliability and winter weather aside, I don't see it as much of a choice for someone who likes driving.



The TSX V6 might have worse EPA mileage, but in a recent comparison test in Car and Driver, it got 28mpg in the world, on par with VW Passat CC 2.0T (200hp) and Buick Regal RS Turbo...and the TSX V6 absolutely destroyed both in a straight line.



I told you guys a couple years ago - that 3.5V6 in the TSX is impressive. Quick and fast (6.1 0-60, traction limited), and I romped it for 400+ miles on a road trip with a full load of 3 adults and a completely packed trunk and it easily returned over 29mpg (average speed was 80+mph). The car was delivering well over 30mpg at speeds in the 75-80mph range. If I had to drive from New York to LA, the TSX V6 would be one of my top choices of any vehicle available for sale. Fast, efficient, refined.

Where it falls short is in the chassis. It's too softly sprung for my tastes and it just doesn't have a lot of cornering grip, and there's far too much understeer.


sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 18:34
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
JP wrote:
How can a car like that understeer with that weight distribution (V6 - 5AT)??

My common sense would say that it would oversteer instead...



You don't know much about vehicle dynamics do you?

I think you are confusing weight that stabilizes, with weight that must be moved in a different direction?

Dependent upon suspension design, the heavier the load, the greater the forcing to overcome for the amount of tyre grip. So the front that carries more weight requires more grip to take a given corner at a given speed. The rear, with less weight requires less grip to go around that same corner. If the tyres are the same size, which end will "let go" first?

Something like that, but you should study it.
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 19:06
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Jeff wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
NoSpinZone wrote:
Maybe the TL was an unfair comparison, as it's much closer to the 5-Series category.

The 3.5 TSX NON-tech package is much closer in price (only off by a few hundred). It's a little slower (about .3-.6 seconds) it would seem, gets much worse EPA mileage, handles alright but FWD leaves it a bit frumpy, but it probably comes standard with some nice amenities that the Bimmer doesn't.

This leaves your choice, basically, between electronic doodads and maybe some nicer interior appointments, or a slightly more basic car that's much more fun to drive.

Reliability and winter weather aside, I don't see it as much of a choice for someone who likes driving.



The TSX V6 might have worse EPA mileage, but in a recent comparison test in Car and Driver, it got 28mpg in the world, on par with VW Passat CC 2.0T (200hp) and Buick Regal RS Turbo...and the TSX V6 absolutely destroyed both in a straight line.



I told you guys a couple years ago - that 3.5V6 in the TSX is impressive. Quick and fast (6.1 0-60, traction limited), and I romped it for 400+ miles on a road trip with a full load of 3 adults and a completely packed trunk and it easily returned over 29mpg (average speed was 80+mph). The car was delivering well over 30mpg at speeds in the 75-80mph range. If I had to drive from New York to LA, the TSX V6 would be one of my top choices of any vehicle available for sale. Fast, efficient, refined.

Where it falls short is in the chassis. It's too softly sprung for my tastes and it just doesn't have a lot of cornering grip, and there's far too much understeer.



Can the negatives be improved by using grippier tires, aftermarket sway bars, and aftermarket springs/shocks? My 2g TL-S was having the problems you mentioned but after making the relatively inexpensive changes....the problems are at least not as apparent, at the expense of a bit of refinement.
JP
Profile for JP
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 21:30
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
sadlerau wrote:
JP wrote:
How can a car like that understeer with that weight distribution (V6 - 5AT)??

My common sense would say that it would oversteer instead...



You don't know much about vehicle dynamics do you?

I think you are confusing weight that stabilizes, with weight that must be moved in a different direction?

Dependent upon suspension design, the heavier the load, the greater the forcing to overcome for the amount of tyre grip. So the front that carries more weight requires more grip to take a given corner at a given speed. The rear, with less weight requires less grip to go around that same corner. If the tyres are the same size, which end will "let go" first?

Something like that, but you should study it.




Weird, I know that a Civic 6th Gen with a H22A swap severely oversteers.

In general, my understanding is that: same tire size, same thread life, the more weight, the more grip... so front tires veer faster than rear tires can handle... That is the principle of oversteering.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 22:42
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Torque wrote:
Most people won't remember this but the BMW 3 series up until sometime in the 80s were 4 cylinders so this isn't exactly BMW going backwards.

Comparing BMW and Honda engines apples to apples doesn't add up. BMW has built a range of engines from 4 cylinders all the way to 12 cylinders, NA, single turbo chargers and twin.

Honda has focused primarily on 4 and 6 cylinders. People seemed to love the idea of the 2.3T in the RDX or porting it over to an Acura sedan. Why all the hate for BMW when they employ a turbo charged four?

I guarantee most, if not all, of us would be ecstatic to have an engine like this in the ILX. But instead, we get leftovers.






The Integra used to have 140HP in the base model, and the ILX has 150. The Type R had 195 an the K24 has 201. How is that not progress, but going back to 4 bangers is.

I would argue that it is in fact a step backward. Why you ask? While BMW has managed to meet the power mandate, they have moved effectively backward in the areas of NVH, perceived quality, perceived engine superiority, and frankly, it is essentially removing much of the essence that was added to the 3 series to improved perceived luxury and value.

Also, while BMW has had 4 banger 3 series before, the vast majority of sales went to I6 models when they were so available. The I6 was the engine that fueled the reputation, the sales growth and the profit margin of the 3 series.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 23:05
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
JP wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
JP wrote:
How can a car like that understeer with that weight distribution (V6 - 5AT)??

My common sense would say that it would oversteer instead...



You don't know much about vehicle dynamics do you?

I think you are confusing weight that stabilizes, with weight that must be moved in a different direction?

Dependent upon suspension design, the heavier the load, the greater the forcing to overcome for the amount of tyre grip. So the front that carries more weight requires more grip to take a given corner at a given speed. The rear, with less weight requires less grip to go around that same corner. If the tyres are the same size, which end will "let go" first?

Something like that, but you should study it.




Weird, I know that a Civic 6th Gen with a H22A swap severely oversteers.

In general, my understanding is that: same tire size, same thread life, the more weight, the more grip... so front tires veer faster than rear tires can handle... That is the principle of oversteering.



no.
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 23:23
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Typical BMW underrating on the turbo engines. No surprise there (Edmunds was a 6MT though).

On the topic of competition, they kind of need this power. The 328 starts at $35k. And if you add _any_ options at all you're over $37k. That gets you a nicely equipped G37, is just a couple thou away from an IS350, etc. Not that a 3-series doesn't have some appealing qualities vs. those other sedans, but $4$ it is super expensive for the power you get.

SC

CivicB18 wrote:
Edmunds just dynoed this car with the 8AT and it made 240hp and 257ftlbs AT THE WHEELS! I imagine with a bit more break in time it may even gain a bit more power. Seriously underrated!

Combine that with great driving dynamics, increased comfort and the fact that it's more fun to drive vs its faster big brother (the 335i) and it BLOWS away the A4 2.0t, TSX V6, C300, Infiniti G25 and the IS250. Add to that its great mix of performance and economy and what's not to like? Quite a package if you ask me.


~Patrick


Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 23:38
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
owequitit wrote:
Torque wrote:
Most people won't remember this but the BMW 3 series up until sometime in the 80s were 4 cylinders so this isn't exactly BMW going backwards.

Comparing BMW and Honda engines apples to apples doesn't add up. BMW has built a range of engines from 4 cylinders all the way to 12 cylinders, NA, single turbo chargers and twin.

Honda has focused primarily on 4 and 6 cylinders. People seemed to love the idea of the 2.3T in the RDX or porting it over to an Acura sedan. Why all the hate for BMW when they employ a turbo charged four?

I guarantee most, if not all, of us would be ecstatic to have an engine like this in the ILX. But instead, we get leftovers.


The Integra used to have 140HP in the base model, and the ILX has 150. The Type R had 195 an the K24 has 201. How is that not progress, but going back to 4 bangers is.

I would argue that it is in fact a step backward. Why you ask? While BMW has managed to meet the power mandate, they have moved effectively backward in the areas of NVH, perceived quality, perceived engine superiority, and frankly, it is essentially removing much of the essence that was added to the 3 series to improved perceived luxury and value.

Also, while BMW has had 4 banger 3 series before, the vast majority of sales went to I6 models when they were so available. The I6 was the engine that fueled the reputation, the sales growth and the profit margin of the 3 series.


I'll give the Germans a break on this one. True, most folks picked the I6 when they could through the '90s but that 318 was pretty weak compared to the 325 and no one cared about MPG in the US at the time with gas dropping to 89 cents per gallon in 1998. Regardless, the 318Ti was a great little car. And you never hear any of the straight-6 fans fondly praise the "eta" engines. Power to the people because this new turbo-4 has more than twice the HP of the 325e and is rated at better highway MPG.

The I6 turned the 3-series into the Marin County Pinto, granted, but it was the 1600/2002/320i 4-cylinder alongside the 3.0/Bavaria that started the BMW enthusiasm among car folks in the US what with the Batmobiles, two i's are better than one, and "obruT" decals. I still think of the '84 325 as meant to fill the gap created when the 3.0 became the 6-series a few years earlier.
JP
Profile for JP
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-16-2012 23:55
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Jeff wrote:
JP wrote:
sadlerau wrote:
JP wrote:
How can a car like that understeer with that weight distribution (V6 - 5AT)??

My common sense would say that it would oversteer instead...



You don't know much about vehicle dynamics do you?

I think you are confusing weight that stabilizes, with weight that must be moved in a different direction?

Dependent upon suspension design, the heavier the load, the greater the forcing to overcome for the amount of tyre grip. So the front that carries more weight requires more grip to take a given corner at a given speed. The rear, with less weight requires less grip to go around that same corner. If the tyres are the same size, which end will "let go" first?

Something like that, but you should study it.




Weird, I know that a Civic 6th Gen with a H22A swap severely oversteers.

In general, my understanding is that: same tire size, same thread life, the more weight, the more grip... so front tires veer faster than rear tires can handle... That is the principle of oversteering.



no.



Then it would be great if somebody explains me hehe.
Atomic Frog
Profile for Atomic Frog
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2012 00:04
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
That's always one of my biggest complaints with BMW. Yes, it looks good on paper, but when you look at things comparably equipped, it starts to get really, really expensive really quickly.

Add on top of that, the base model usually isn't even available. When we went shopping for a new ride, pretty much all the BMW dealers told us, no, we don't have the base model, if you really want it, it's a "special" order and you'll just have to wait for it...
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2012 01:50
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

This BMW looks interesting.


Peter Nefischer, head of engine development for BMW, has said the automaker is currently working on developing three-cylinder engines to be used across the company's vehicle line. ..............
So, when can we expect to see a three-cylinder 3 Series hit the streets? According to the report, the vehicle could be here in two years. BMW has already demonstrated the sort of gains that can be made by dropping cylinder count. Just look at the F30 328i with the vehicle's impressive power and fuel economy as an example. Will BMW bring 3 Series to the table with half the cylinders of the tried-and-true I6? Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure with many of you but ever driven a 3 cylinder? It's not only underpowered it vibrates a lot. I mean A LOT. Everytime I come up behind a car with 3 cylinders I can always see the exhuast wagging around like a dog greeting his owner.
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2012 04:34
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
owequitit wrote:
Torque wrote:
Most people won't remember this but the BMW 3 series up until sometime in the 80s were 4 cylinders so this isn't exactly BMW going backwards.

Comparing BMW and Honda engines apples to apples doesn't add up. BMW has built a range of engines from 4 cylinders all the way to 12 cylinders, NA, single turbo chargers and twin.

Honda has focused primarily on 4 and 6 cylinders. People seemed to love the idea of the 2.3T in the RDX or porting it over to an Acura sedan. Why all the hate for BMW when they employ a turbo charged four?

I guarantee most, if not all, of us would be ecstatic to have an engine like this in the ILX. But instead, we get leftovers.






The Integra used to have 140HP in the base model, and the ILX has 150. The Type R had 195 an the K24 has 201. How is that not progress, but going back to 4 bangers is.

I would argue that it is in fact a step backward. Why you ask? While BMW has managed to meet the power mandate, they have moved effectively backward in the areas of NVH, perceived quality, perceived engine superiority, and frankly, it is essentially removing much of the essence that was added to the 3 series to improved perceived luxury and value.

Also, while BMW has had 4 banger 3 series before, the vast majority of sales went to I6 models when they were so available. The I6 was the engine that fueled the reputation, the sales growth and the profit margin of the 3 series.


Owe, I've often wondered why so many people here want to turn Honda into... well... BMW? Always saying "Honda should to this or that". But we never hear anyone say, "why can't BMW build a 328 and have it start at $19,000 like an Accord?" If we looked at the global output of the 3 series and 5 series (if you subscribe to the same sausage of different length theory) they sell as many, if not more, of these than Honda Accords. You'd think with that volume they could get the price down?
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: 2012 328i first drive by MT    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-17-2012 05:35
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
FiSH-Chan wrote:

This BMW looks interesting.


Peter Nefischer, head of engine development for BMW, has said the automaker is currently working on developing three-cylinder engines to be used across the company's vehicle line. ..............
So, when can we expect to see a three-cylinder 3 Series hit the streets? According to the report, the vehicle could be here in two years. BMW has already demonstrated the sort of gains that can be made by dropping cylinder count. Just look at the F30 328i with the vehicle's impressive power and fuel economy as an example. Will BMW bring 3 Series to the table with half the cylinders of the tried-and-true I6? Stranger things have happened.


I'm not sure with many of you but ever driven a 3 cylinder? It's not only underpowered it vibrates a lot. I mean A LOT. Everytime I come up behind a car with 3 cylinders I can always see the exhuast wagging around like a dog greeting his owner.


Ford already has a 3 cylinder ecoboost available in the euro focus. Autocar magazine did a test on one, February 7th.

"A new, three-cylinder 1.0 litre turbocharged version of the Ford Focus, driven here in 123bhp form but also available with 99bhp.
This engine, whose cylinder block has barely the area of a sheet of A4 paper, arrives first in the Focus because its high-tech gadgetry (variable valve timing, miniature turbo, advanced electronics, direct fuel injection system) would make it expensive for the Fiesta.
The triple's efficiencies which include super-efficient combustion, stop-start, a remarkably wide torque spread (with peak 125lb ft torque that overboosts to 148lb ft for 30 seconds to assist acceleration and passing manoeuvres), a six-speed gearbox and a 30kg weight saving over the front wheels result in CO2 output of just 114g/km and combined fuel consumption of 56.5mpg for the six-speed version."

"Even such promising paper figures don't prepare you for the driving experience. You barely hear the thing start, and it idles so smoothly you'd swear it had stalled. Your brain tells you such a small engine will need lots of revs off the mark, but it gets going easily because the combination of a tiny turbo, advanced electronic engine management and double variable valve timing give it amazing oomph in the low gears, even below 2000rpm (though the redline's 6700rpm).
It flows through the gears, always quiet but sounding more like a thoroughbred six than anything mainstream. You'll enjoy revving it, but you soon learn that changing up in the 3000s (aided by a smooth clutch and a slick six-speeder) delivers far better economy with pretty good performance."

The times, they are a changing!
 
Thread Page - [1] 2
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2014 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
mobile: 0