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TOV Forums > ILX > > Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20

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JeffX
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Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 12:05
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Torque
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 12:28
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My god, look at all that plastic cladding. It must be a bitch trying to change a headlight/bulb in that thing.
JeffX
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 12:36
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Torque wrote:
My god, look at all that plastic cladding. It must be a bitch trying to change a headlight/bulb in that thing.


actually in the acuras that have this cladding, it's usually the twist of one or two fasteners and it all comes out very easily.
CivicGSiR
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 12:39
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Nice, but that's pretty underwhelming.
notyper
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 12:40
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I miss the old crackle finished valve covers and beautifully cast intake manifolds. Used to be a treat to open a Honda/Acura hood.

SC
JeffX
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 12:49
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notyper wrote:
I miss the old crackle finished valve covers and beautifully cast intake manifolds. Used to be a treat to open a Honda/Acura hood.

SC



Lately I've been getting the sense that Honda just treats engines as "modules" or "black boxes" that they plug and play.

Hopefully they turn that around and start taking pride in their craftsmanship and start making exciting engines once again.
sennaFAN
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:22
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You are not alone on that one. I used to feel proud to open the bonnet on a nice twin cam CRX, Prelude etc and show customers the extra attention to detail that typified Honda. Proudly claiming that this side of exotica it was only Honda that took so much pride in presenting their engines this way as they were proud and aware of their position as the finest engine builders in the world.
Whilst their engines are still largely superb you may as well be looking under the bonnet ( hood in the us ?? ) of a run of the mill car.
Cheap easy to rust mounts for small electrical items and pulleys really grates now too.
I really hope that Honda go back to their roots soon as they risk engineering to compete and not to excel as they used to.
Potenza
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:31
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notyper wrote:
I miss the old crackle finished valve covers and beautifully cast intake manifolds. Used to be a treat to open a Honda/Acura hood.

SC

Agreed. There was just an editorial in one of the Euro mags (CAR or EVO) about how engines used to be a thing of art, and it named Honda specifically as an example. Now it's dwindled to Ferrari and little more.

I do still find a slight pleasure in the K-series, and in the Fit/CR-Z, oddly. I just discovered that Spoon sells a crackle red valve cover for the Fit!...

I'm just thankful we aren't as bad as most. The engine bays of most Hyundais make me cringe.
CrystalFiveMT
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:32
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It should cut some costs in engineering, material and production to eschew the faddish plastic shields.
Potenza
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:37
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sennaFAN wrote:
Cheap easy to rust mounts for small electrical items and pulleys really grates now too.

How about the base of the EGR... it drives me nuts how that turns into a giant piece of rust. I was just looking at a used Fit (with 36k miles), and its engine bay looked great apart from that obvious hunk of brown rusty metal front-and-center.
Grace141
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:42
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Jeff wrote:
notyper wrote:
I miss the old crackle finished valve covers and beautifully cast intake manifolds. Used to be a treat to open a Honda/Acura hood.
SC


Lately I've been getting the sense that Honda just treats engines as "modules" or "black boxes" that they plug and play.

Hopefully they turn that around and start taking pride in their craftsmanship and start making exciting engines once again.


They're still using the trusty old blue cap for the washer fluid reservoir. Just looking for a positive.

On a side note, I suppose you folks noticed Mazda dropped the old "Lotus powered by Ford"-style twin cam cover from the current Miata. Times change.
Grace141
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:46
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Is that engine front motor mount to the fender well new or did the '06 Civic have that? I haven't had a chance to look under the hood of a '12 Civic.
Hondu
Profile for Hondu
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:52
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Torque wrote:
My god, look at all that plastic cladding. It must be a bitch trying to change a headlight/bulb in that thing.


Have you seen the engine bay of a 3-series BMW or Mercedes C-class lately? Nothing but a sea of black plastic. You can't even check the oil on a BMW (or a Mercedes either I believe), since it has no dipstick anymore.
Torque
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:53
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Jeff wrote:
Torque wrote:
My god, look at all that plastic cladding. It must be a bitch trying to change a headlight/bulb in that thing.


actually in the acuras that have this cladding, it's usually the twist of one or two fasteners and it all comes out very easily.



I couldn't make that out in the pics but at least there is some sense of functionality to it.
tennis32828
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:53
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I know honda has a habit of not giving 4 cyclinder vehicles hydraulic hood lift, but they should at least make it standard in Acura models
gogzy
Profile for gogzy
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 14:36
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I think owner can still remove these cover and drive around without issue. this is no R or Si so I guess the valve cover is plan metal without paint.. many of luxury car have entire thing cover.... probably most of the buys in that market don't even check under hood...(let alone to appreciate..)
I too wish Honda have a more "rooty" one when they have a S or R version.
VTECyo!
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 15:12
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I do miss the time (not long ago) when engines were good-looking, but for some reason today's customers try to pretend that internal combustion engines do not exist; they do not want to hear them or see them, and this is reflected in the way Honda/Acura (and other automakers) package their engines. Just look at the current gen TL. It's a sea of plastic under there!

notyper
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 16:20
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Most Honda valve covers and intake manifolds these days are plastic. Featureless, smooth, black or gray plastic. Often festooned with hoses or wires that would have been better routed or tucked if there wasn't a big plastic shield to cover everything up.

SC
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 18:05
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VTECyo! wrote:
I do miss the time (not long ago) when engines were good-looking, but for some reason today's customers try to pretend that internal combustion engines do not exist; they do not want to hear them or see them, and this is reflected in the way Honda/Acura (and other automakers) package their engines. Just look at the current gen TL. It's a sea of plastic under there!




I have to agree about the appearance of the engines. The old Honda engines just looked like the people cared about making ENGINES. And they clearly did. The wrinkle red valve covers were equal of a Ferrari, and still to this day look fantastic.

At least in the case of the TL, the engine still looks fantastic, like an engine should. It has proportion, is made of metal, and looks like a V6 with valve covers and an intake manifold, not a plastic box covered in more plastic. With the TL, the plastic shrouding surrounds everything BUT the engine, and I was glad when the powertrain engineer said that they did that to specifically frame the engine, and make it look...like an engine.

I am hopeful because the ED V6 still has a metal intake manifold, and the other ED engines looked a little bit more like engines than the L series or R series.
s2ktaxi
Profile for s2ktaxi
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 19:09
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Jeff wrote:
notyper wrote:
I miss the old crackle finished valve covers and beautifully cast intake manifolds. Used to be a treat to open a Honda/Acura hood.

SC



Lately I've been getting the sense that Honda just treats engines as "modules" or "black boxes" that they plug and play.

Hopefully they turn that around and start taking pride in their craftsmanship and start making exciting engines once again.


That's what makes some of our current cars (NSX, S2000) collector items :) Aside from the 8k+ rpm redlines.
carcrazy84
Profile for carcrazy84
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 19:27
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People seem to think those plastic engine covers are purely superficial, but they are often functional sound deadeners with foam insulation to reduce engine/fuel injector noise. I think they're generally a good thing because of that, and they're certainly more aesthetically pleasing (albeit less interesting) than the rat's nest of wires and vacuum lines like many cars of the past had.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 21:04
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carcrazy84 wrote:
People seem to think those plastic engine covers are purely superficial, but they are often functional sound deadeners with foam insulation to reduce engine/fuel injector noise. I think they're generally a good thing because of that, and they're certainly more aesthetically pleasing (albeit less interesting) than the rat's nest of wires and vacuum lines like many cars of the past had.


Not entirely true.

Many of them are NOT insulated, and I don't remember where, but at some point I was reading an engineering related article that mentioned them being variable in how much they actually benefitted noise. Since most of the noise from a running engine is going to come from the intake and exhaust tracts, it may be marginal at idle (depending how much insulation they have, and how much they are covering), but is unlikely to make much of a difference elsewhere.

Take two examples: The K series engine shroud is purely cosmetic. It covers the unsightly fuel rail and injectors (in applications where Honda hasn't chosen to remove it and save $2), and doesn't reduce the noise level by any appreciable amount.

The second example is the ED V6, which puts the GDI injectors underneat the IM down in the V. That might help deaden some of the noise because of the mass of the equipment above it. However, I don't think the R18 or R20 covers even cover the fuel rail/intake manifold, and thus are likely of marginal benefit from a noise standpoint.
carcrazy84
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-11-2012 23:35
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Well, you're probably right about the R- and K-series engines, but many newer (direct-injected) cars use insulated engine covers, whether with foam or expanded fiberglass or something. I can support this personally after feeling under the covers of about 5 cars recently. From a Lexus to a Kia to a Fiat 500, they had some kind of insulation. So I'm sure it does something for at least idle clatter or underhood heat or they wouldn't put it there. But yes, I'm sure many covers are cosmetic, and of course many engines don't even have them.
oldskool
Profile for oldskool
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2012 00:36
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You can thank the federal government for that. The painted parts gave off "volitile organic compounds" and were banned by the EPA.
longhorn
Profile for longhorn
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2012 00:43
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carcrazy84 wrote:
Well, you're probably right about the R- and K-series engines, but many newer (direct-injected) cars use insulated engine covers, whether with foam or expanded fiberglass or something. I can support this personally after feeling under the covers of about 5 cars recently. From a Lexus to a Kia to a Fiat 500, they had some kind of insulation. So I'm sure it does something for at least idle clatter or underhood heat or they wouldn't put it there. But yes, I'm sure many covers are cosmetic, and of course many engines don't even have them.


I have the reason for the shrouds is to reduce noise. Its a cheap and effective way.
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2012 05:27
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longhorn wrote:
carcrazy84 wrote:
Well, you're probably right about the R- and K-series engines, but many newer (direct-injected) cars use insulated engine covers, whether with foam or expanded fiberglass or something. I can support this personally after feeling under the covers of about 5 cars recently. From a Lexus to a Kia to a Fiat 500, they had some kind of insulation. So I'm sure it does something for at least idle clatter or underhood heat or they wouldn't put it there. But yes, I'm sure many covers are cosmetic, and of course many engines don't even have them.


I have the reason for the shrouds is to reduce noise. Its a cheap and effective way.


Back in 1996 when the 3.5 RL debuted, they cited the engine cover as a noise reduction technique. It was supposed to dampen fuel injector noise.
Midi_Amp
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Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2012 05:48
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owequitit wrote:
carcrazy84 wrote:
People seem to think those plastic engine covers are purely superficial, but they are often functional sound deadeners with foam insulation to reduce engine/fuel injector noise. I think they're generally a good thing because of that, and they're certainly more aesthetically pleasing (albeit less interesting) than the rat's nest of wires and vacuum lines like many cars of the past had.


Not entirely true.

Many of them are NOT insulated, and I don't remember where, but at some point I was reading an engineering related article that mentioned them being variable in how much they actually benefitted noise. Since most of the noise from a running engine is going to come from the intake and exhaust tracts, it may be marginal at idle (depending how much insulation they have, and how much they are covering), but is unlikely to make much of a difference elsewhere.

Take two examples: The K series engine shroud is purely cosmetic. It covers the unsightly fuel rail and injectors (in applications where Honda hasn't chosen to remove it and save $2), and doesn't reduce the noise level by any appreciable amount.

The second example is the ED V6, which puts the GDI injectors underneat the IM down in the V. That might help deaden some of the noise because of the mass of the equipment above it. However, I don't think the R18 or R20 covers even cover the fuel rail/intake manifold, and thus are likely of marginal benefit from a noise standpoint.


For some application the engine cover does helps dampening the engine noise, you can watch the video of the 2011 Mazda RX-8 Vs 2007 Mazda RX-8 engine noise with and without engine cover. The engine cover on the 2011 RX-8 insulates the noise significantly compared to the non insulated 2007 RX-8 engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqpFUYhvFsw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDONnr-GAY

Well, to be fair the 2011 RX-8 had its engine and mechanical bits entirely under a cover compared to the "naked" 2007 model. The ILX however, has a bit of plastic cladding and I don't think it will do as significant as the blatant cover on the RX-8 engine.
FiSH-Chan
Profile for FiSH-Chan
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2012 08:31
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Midi_Amp wrote:
Well, to be fair the 2011 RX-8 had its engine and mechanical bits entirely under a cover compared to the "naked" 2007 model. The ILX however, has a bit of plastic cladding and I don't think it will do as significant as the blatant cover on the RX-8 engine.


I actually laughed when I saw the engine cover on the 11' RX8, especially having seen the 2007. It's like they were trying to make the engine look much bigger.
Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2012 22:17
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Jeff wrote:


What is that black ipad sized box next to the air filter housing, above the battery?
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Photo of ILX 2.0L R20    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-12-2012 22:31
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That's the ECU.

SC
 
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