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  TOV News > Acura Debuts 2013 RDX and All-New ILX Sedan at Chicago Auto Show > > Re: Meanwhile over at BMW...

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NSXman
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Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 01:07
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328i 240 hp, 255 ft-lbs - 24/36 mpg w/auto - 23/34 mpg w/manual.

I don't care that the 328i costs $35,000k. The ILX numbers are a joke. The fact that Honda thinks this is car is worthy of their elite brand is embarrassing. I don't care that I haven't driven it either...how good could this car drive to justify 150hp and 32 mpgs? How does 32 mpgs even help CAFE numbers?
NSXman
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 01:10
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Maybe Neal's Fantasy Factory can get the ILX an engine/transmission combo too.
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Ganplosive
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 01:17
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disappointing, to say the least.

Price point marketing just doesn't work in the luxury game. Even if it does bring new people into the fold, luxury ALWAYS EQUALS GETTING MORE. Other brands will be more than ready to take these new lux customers off of Acura's hands
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auto_enthu
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 02:21
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When the current RL was released in 2005, it was received very well and sold decently atleast initially. But the ILX specs look obsolete and so non-luxury on day 0.
superchg2
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 05:08
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No earth dreams and no innovation.The 150 h.p ILX, with it's 5 speed auto and 24/32 mpg lags behind the competition in power and mileage. BMW has focused on the need for efficiency and performance in the new 3 series, and delivered.

The ILX does not deliver, and until Honda focuses on actually improving their gas powered car drivetrains, they are in a world of shit!

p.s. Why talk about earth dreams when you aren't even ready to deliver the goods?
Nick GravesX
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 05:48
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Sooo, it doesn't fit into the 328 category.

It doesn't fit into the Elantra category.

Er, maybe it fits between them?

Funniest thread for a while!
Stien Azani
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 06:26
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obviously all the complainer here are not the Gen-Y people.... where the looks and price is the major factor..
VTECyo!
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 06:50
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Gen Y wants a car that looks good, of course, and price is a major factor for any generation, but I cannot imagine that the targeted buyers will not notice the ILXs shortcomings. I applaud Acura for offering several powertrains (they have been reticent to do that for almost their entire existence), but in my opinion they are not competitive enough. The 2.4 probably is not sporty enough to warrant a price premium over the base 2.0 which is not fast enough to be in a luxury car! (I consider the ILX a luxury car, even if it is only "near-luxury") The 1.5 hybrid is a major disappointment because its fuel economy is totally lackluster, and the acceleration will be downright slow.

On the other hand, I think the styling of the ILX (especially the production version) is absolutely beautiful. It's simple, modern, and very attractive (to me). When Acura sticks some earth dreams tech in this car, it will be MUCH more competitive.
RyanDL
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 09:34
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Stien Azani wrote:
obviously all the complainer here are not the Gen-Y people.... where the looks and price is the major factor..

Gen-Y buyers want the whole package: looks, feature content, attractive price, AND eco-friendly. The price is still unknown, but I think this car is hitting the mark on looks and features (mostly).

The biggest miss I'm seeing are the engines:

#1 - The projected EPA ratings are sub-par. Whether it's down to weight, gearing, or something else remains to be seen. But given the less than stellar power ratings from both the 2.0L base and Si transplant 2.4L, it is a standout.

#2 - To offer the "green" solution, they've presented a hybrid model. That's fine, but you can't ignore being "green" in the other models -- the non-hybrid EPA numbers seem lacking.

Gen-Y wants to have their cake and eat it, too. It seems like they may have missed the mark a bit in the drivetrain department. Unless the prices come in below expectations, I think there is competition out there that seems more attractive on paper.

Ryan
trixster861
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A Gen Y's Impressions... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 09:38
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I've been on the VTEC boards for many years...I suppose I've never really considered how many of us Gen Y-er's there are around here reading so I'll offer my 2 cents as well...

To preface, I'm current in an 03 CR-V, and have driven numerous over the years through immediate family vehicles and various friends.

Most recently I have been interested in getting a commuter vehicle, for the purposes of long-distance business related travel that would simply allow me to spend less on fuel vs my current vehicle and also keep the miles low on a car that already has 150k+.

I, like many Gen Y-ers, are very brand centric. We know what we want and we usually will bend our perceptions a bit to fit a brand we trust and support. Therefore my initial proceedings for product searches (like a new vehicle) always start at Honda (and likewise Acura).

Up until a few weeks ago I was most interested in the CR-Z, Insight and Civic Hybrid. Of course the universal panning of the Civic has turned me off somewhat, and even in person the exterior looks are not very impressive. However, a 44mpg drivetrain dipping to 36mpg is somewhat disappointing.

That being said, the ILX offers Gen Y-ers an Acura hybrid. That's the selling point. Not how much HP it has, not how many gears it has, just a drivetrain. This is not an enthusiast car. That's what the 2.4L is (supposed) to be. We can all agree the drivetrains were rushed, but in the end, Acura now has a hybrid to offer.

Long story short, this vehicle makes enough of an impression on me that I will definitely be test driving it. I'm not committed to the vehicle, am still disappointed at the mileage, but ultimately how it drives and the final pricing they determine will impact my purchasing decision.

To stay somewhat on topic though, BMW has been making enormous strides in the power- and drivetrain departments. Of course this creates a mark-up in price, but Honda does need to take this seriously because at the $50,000 bracket (like the RL), even as a Honda fan I am seeing less benefits of going with the Honda choice, particularly when other companies outmatch it in fuel economy.

I am glad to see that the ILX release has generated so much controversy though...in many ways it has incited a lot of opinions and I hope Acura takes them to heart at MMC.
Phil17
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Re: A Gen Y's Impressions... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 09:55
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i would rather get a slightly used BMW than a new ILX to be honest...
Tigerriot
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Re: A Gen Y's Impressions... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 10:20
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trixster861 wrote:


I am glad to see that the ILX release has generated so much controversy though...in many ways it has incited a lot of opinions and I hope Acura takes them to heart at MMC.


Or they could just, you know, make a car the right way from the start, so people don't have to pine for major improvements 3 years later.
6SPDTL
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 11:03
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In fact I think the ILX is just what the Dr. ordered, essentially a posh, well finished Civic Si. I bet it will sell in droves! Good looking to boot! A worthy succesor to the RSX. Im also digging the RDX. A CRV with an upgraded Ody engine, also very good looking IMO another, winner which should run circles around the X3. Comparing the ILX to the 328 is futile they are entirely different class of cars one is a FWD "lux" economy sedan priced in the high 20's low 30's the other one is a RWD luxury sedan that cant be bought for less than 40, completely apples and oranges.
NoSpinZone
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 11:44
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6SPDTL,

Come. On.

This thing is pathetic compared to the competition. Maybe it shouldn't compete with the 328 on all fronts, but at the VERY F*CKING LEAST a 2.4 in a smaller, lighter FWD car should get better mileage than the 328, not significantly worse.

This thing is an embarassment.
sickyute
Profile for sickyute
Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 11:50
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NoSpinZone wrote:
6SPDTL,

Come. On.

This thing is pathetic compared to the competition. Maybe it shouldn't compete with the 328 on all fronts, but at the VERY F*CKING LEAST a 2.4 in a smaller, lighter FWD car should get better mileage than the 328, not significantly worse.

This thing is an embarassment.


not necessarily better. but close to or comparable. def not significantly worse as it stands.
Powered by Honda
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 11:54
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NSXman wrote:
328i 240 hp, 255 ft-lbs - 24/36 mpg w/auto - 23/34 mpg w/manual.

I don't care that the 328i costs $35,000k. The ILX numbers are a joke. The fact that Honda thinks this is car is worthy of their elite brand is embarrassing. I don't care that I haven't driven it either...how good could this car drive to justify 150hp and 32 mpgs? How does 32 mpgs even help CAFE numbers?



You can probably get 35-40 with the ILX on highway dont believe the epa
RyanDL
Profile for RyanDL
Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 11:57
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Powered by Honda wrote:
NSXman wrote:
328i 240 hp, 255 ft-lbs - 24/36 mpg w/auto - 23/34 mpg w/manual.

I don't care that the 328i costs $35,000k. The ILX numbers are a joke. The fact that Honda thinks this is car is worthy of their elite brand is embarrassing. I don't care that I haven't driven it either...how good could this car drive to justify 150hp and 32 mpgs? How does 32 mpgs even help CAFE numbers?



You can probably get 35-40 with the ILX on highway dont believe the epa


Doubtful. I can get up to 38 MPG in my Civic EX on the highway on a very good day with the right conditions. Up to 35 MPG would be tough even in an Si.

Ryan
JonBoy
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 12:59
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I've achieved over 42 mpg in my wife's 2008 Civic LX going back and forth between Lufkin, TX and Minden, LA (150 mile trip with quite a few hills) many times, with two adults and two kids in the car and usually with some luggage as well. Actual measured best was 42.3 mpg.

This is with an automatic transmission, which actually gets better gas mileage than the manual transmission.

I'm betting the ILX will be able to get 35 mpg very easily on the highway.
JeffX
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:13
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RyanDL wrote:
Powered by Honda wrote:
NSXman wrote:
328i 240 hp, 255 ft-lbs - 24/36 mpg w/auto - 23/34 mpg w/manual.

I don't care that the 328i costs $35,000k. The ILX numbers are a joke. The fact that Honda thinks this is car is worthy of their elite brand is embarrassing. I don't care that I haven't driven it either...how good could this car drive to justify 150hp and 32 mpgs? How does 32 mpgs even help CAFE numbers?



You can probably get 35-40 with the ILX on highway dont believe the epa


Doubtful. I can get up to 38 MPG in my Civic EX on the highway on a very good day with the right conditions. Up to 35 MPG would be tough even in an Si.

Ryan



I actually observed ~37 mpg in the Project Si, and that was with it LOADED to the gills with a spare set of wheels, tools, floor jacks, jackstands, cooler, luggage, etc..

The main reason I did so well was because I drove the entire way (from Atlanta to St. Petersburg) with the race exhaust on it and I didn't want to attract any attention from the many cops on I-75, so I drove it right about 2-3mph over the speed limit the entire way and I short shifted. I was surprised when I saw over 460 miles on one tank.

I used to keep track of all my tanks on my current Si but I was using an app on my old palm treo (haha), and I have lost that phone somewhere so i don't remember my exact "best tank". I'm pretty sure it was right around 35mpg, and I wasn't really doing anything special to achieve that apart from traveling at ~75mph or less the entire way. The new Si is a little bit more efficient so it wouldn't surprise me to hear of people getting 35-37mpg. Honda seems to have really cut the aero drag and frictional drag on the new Sis significantly.
HONDA AFVM
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 13:17
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NSXman wrote:
328i 240 hp, 255 ft-lbs - 24/36 mpg w/auto - 23/34 mpg w/manual.

I don't care that the 328i costs $35,000k. The ILX numbers are a joke. The fact that Honda thinks this is car is worthy of their elite brand is embarrassing. I don't care that I haven't driven it either...how good could this car drive to justify 150hp and 32 mpgs? How does 32 mpgs even help CAFE numbers?


Honda has ALWAYS under promised and over delivered on their MPG numbers..........how fast you forget.........
NSXman
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 14:04
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Nick Graves wrote:
Sooo, it doesn't fit into the 328 category.

It doesn't fit into the Elantra category.

Er, maybe it fits between them?

Funniest thread for a while!



I never said it fit into the 328 category. The point is BMW has put the goods into their engines and transmissions and came out with power and efficiency. Honda puts two engines in the car that have barely been massaged since 2008. That is to say nothing about that ancient 5-speed that will now grace this car for at least 3 years. Compensating for the change in fuel economy and hp measurements in the past decade, this car has 2001 base RSX numbers.

I thought that putting a Cruze into the Buick line was silly, but Honda just spotted the Buick Verano 30 hp right out of the gate. A 220-hp turbo Verano is supposed to be coming this fall too.

Be critical of me for bringing Bimmer into the equation all you want. However, all I see each new model from luxury brands is new tech after new tech. Call me crazy that I thought we'd get a 180 hp base engine out of this car and that fuel economy could even match the more powerful and similarly priced Honda Accord. Call me crazy that I thought Honda would use a 6-speed or some of the new tech they just announced in the ILX. All I see is automotive engineering being advanced here and there all around Honda and the car company I have purchased from and been loyal to for 16 years just won't...you know...ADVANCE.
NSXman
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 14:15
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
NSXman wrote:
328i 240 hp, 255 ft-lbs - 24/36 mpg w/auto - 23/34 mpg w/manual.

I don't care that the 328i costs $35,000k. The ILX numbers are a joke. The fact that Honda thinks this is car is worthy of their elite brand is embarrassing. I don't care that I haven't driven it either...how good could this car drive to justify 150hp and 32 mpgs? How does 32 mpgs even help CAFE numbers?


Honda has ALWAYS under promised and over delivered on their MPG numbers..........how fast you forget.........



Buddy, I have owned 7 Honda 4-cylinders since 1996. I have also had 1 Toyota, 1 Mazda and 1 Ford in this time frame and each of them got the advertised fuel economy or better. I know what fuel economy Hondas get. This only Honda achieves better fuel economy than EPA argument is lame. And even if it does get 35-36 mpgs, they delivered this "stellar" economy by giving you a 3000lb car motivated by 150hp and an auto only. This is something I WISH I could forget.

Too bad....the car actually looks pretty good outside and inside.
Hondu
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 14:31
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NSXman wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
Sooo, it doesn't fit into the 328 category.

It doesn't fit into the Elantra category.

Er, maybe it fits between them?

Funniest thread for a while!



I never said it fit into the 328 category. The point is BMW has put the goods into their engines and transmissions and came out with power and efficiency. Honda puts two engines in the car that have barely been massaged since 2008. That is to say nothing about that ancient 5-speed that will now grace this car for at least 3 years. Compensating for the change in fuel economy and hp measurements in the past decade, this car has 2001 base RSX numbers.

I thought that putting a Cruze into the Buick line was silly, but Honda just spotted the Buick Verano 30 hp right out of the gate. A 220-hp turbo Verano is supposed to be coming this fall too.

Be critical of me for bringing Bimmer into the equation all you want. However, all I see each new model from luxury brands is new tech after new tech. Call me crazy that I thought we'd get a 180 hp base engine out of this car and that fuel economy could even match the more powerful and similarly priced Honda Accord. Call me crazy that I thought Honda would use a 6-speed or some of the new tech they just announced in the ILX. All I see is automotive engineering being advanced here and there all around Honda and the car company I have purchased from and been loyal to for 16 years just won't...you know...ADVANCE.



New technology? The only new tech I see in the 328 is an 8-speed auto. The put a turbo on their 4-cylinder, nothing new about that. It may have direct injection, but so does Ford, Hyundai, Mazda, etc. On top of that, one that is equipped decent will cost you $40K easy. I am disappointed in the powertrain on the new ILX, but I would not use the 328i for comparison.
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Potenza
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 15:33
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Hondu wrote:
New technology? The only new tech I see in the 328 is an 8-speed auto. The put a turbo on their 4-cylinder, nothing new about that.
There is much more to it than that. In fact, it's as if BMW out-Honda'd Honda. It is Earth Dreams Plus, before Honda even debuts Earth Dreams.

Brake Energy Regeneration (intelligent alternator)
Electric water pump
Idle start/stop
ECO PRO mode (adjusts everything towards max efficiency)
"Infinitely" variable valve timing
Direct injection
Efficient twin-scroll turbo
8-speed automatic

In a (possibly underrated, according to dyno tests) 240hp/260lb-ft 2-liter engine achieving a 24/36 EPA rating.

Yes the cars it's in are expensive, because they're BMWs, but you can't take away what BMW has created with this 4-cylinder engine.
Hondarulez
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Re: Meanwhile over at BMW... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-08-2012 16:08
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NSXman wrote:
328i 240 hp, 255 ft-lbs - 24/36 mpg w/auto - 23/34 mpg w/manual.

I don't care that the 328i costs $35,000k. The ILX numbers are a joke. The fact that Honda thinks this is car is worthy of their elite brand is embarrassing. I don't care that I haven't driven it either...how good could this car drive to justify 150hp and 32 mpgs? How does 32 mpgs even help CAFE numbers?



I think BMW stuffed in a lot of eco tech into its new cars, Honda is in the process of doing so..unfortunately, that's not the case with the ILX. I believe it will start with the next Accord.

With that said, from my Mechanical Engineering background and observation, it seems like engine power is only one of the many factors that affects mpg. There are many other factors such as drag, tire size/width, wheel size, weight, gear ratios, and programming. In fact, I think weight is one of the more important factor. Just look at the Infiniti G25 and G37. The G25 is rated at 23mpg combined, while the G37 is rated at 22mpg combined. For a difference of 1mpg, or less than 5%, you get an extra 110hp, which is a difference of over 50%.
 
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