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  TOV News > TOV Video: Jon Ikeda walk-around of all 3 Acura Concepts > > Re: Good information

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Potenza
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Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 12:21
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Thanks for these videos... it definitely gives a better feel than any other look until now. Makes me think these products will definitely look best in person. Though they still haven't won me over, I'm more interested.

A couple of points:

1. I love the lower black side skirt treatment on the RDX. I hadn't even noticed it until this video. It adds a very sporty style, and I'd love to see something similar on the CR-Z, believe it or not. It would be a lot nicer than that accessory "side spoiler accent" that's tacked on.

2. Does the ILX not have integrated turn signals in the door mirrors? Seems like an obvious oversight.

3. I hadn't noticed the hood on the RDX, either. However, it's not the first time I've seen this shape:



Finally, listening to Mr Ikeda discuss the design, there seemed to be a lack of substance. No offense to him... I think it has more to do with the product. Like when he's talking about the rear side sweep on the ILX, how they just "play with the lines to add fun to the formal." I think the designs and the company are just way too modest still. Luxury means excess, and without excess there's.... nothing to talk about. Watch Chris Bangle or Adrian van Hooydonk talk about their BMW designs if you want to see passion. Or even Peter Schreyer with Kia for that matter. With these cars we've got little more than "special wheels we've got going on here." Even when Jeff tries to point out some details, there isn't anything to say about them, as if they're simply lines that were added to the car here and there...
NealX
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 12:46
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Good stuff. Seems I was typing up some similar points to yours...
dominik331
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 12:57
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I also felt the lack of passion on this guy while talking. Could be he's just not a good talker in front of the camera or.. a reflection of what we have seen coming out of Acura?
Potenza
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 13:12
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dominik331 wrote:
I also felt the lack of passion on this guy while talking. Could be he's just not a good talker in front of the camera or.. a reflection of what we have seen coming out of Acura?
I feel like this happened a couple of years ago as well, and Jeff mentioned that Mr Ikeda is a designer behind the scenes and not used to public speaking like this. That can be understandable. That said, I hate public speaking, but start on a subject matter I am passionate about and I can't be stopped!

To me, he has to convey to the audience the same passion and spirit he would convey were the audience his design team. He has to lead them to his vision... put the beauty that's in his head into their heads, so they can turn it into tangible art. It's kind of like selling them on the idea... which is precisely what he should be doing here - selling us on the beauty and purpose of these designs.

It helps with design the same way it helps (some of us) with engineering. A competitor's engine might make more horsepower, but I like the technicality of how Honda uses VTEC. Similarly, another car can be more beautiful, but I can also fall in love with the technicality of a design. For example, my first impression of the McLaren MP4-12C was that it was bland. However, the designer pointed out that the side scallops were shaped in the design of the McLaren logo. I now look at that part of the car with much more appreciation. Just a small example.
Potenza
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 17:20
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Okay, having posted this picture and looking back on it, I suddenly notice there are 5 LED sections in the headlights.

From Mr Ikeda in the NSX video: "The LED headlight look - this 5 we've got on here - it's something that we're definitely looking up for in the future vehicles that we'll be going forward with."

It seems to me that they are still using plenty of ideas from the Advanced Sedan Concept (ASC, pictured) and Advance Sports Car Concept (ASCC) "Tier One" concepts from many years ago. Which to me means that the design team is likely entirely unchanged, despite the Power Plenum and other undesirable styling directions.
saitamahonda
Profile for saitamahonda
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 19:46
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Potenza wrote:


Okay, having posted this picture and looking back on it, I suddenly notice there are 5 LED sections in the headlights.

From Mr Ikeda in the NSX video: "The LED headlight look - this 5 we've got on here - it's something that we're definitely looking up for in the future vehicles that we'll be going forward with."

It seems to me that they are still using plenty of ideas from the Advanced Sedan Concept (ASC, pictured) and Advance Sports Car Concept (ASCC) "Tier One" concepts from many years ago. Which to me means that the design team is likely entirely unchanged, despite the Power Plenum and other undesirable styling directions.



In fact they are using much of every past concept to come up with their most recent designs. It seems to be an evolution and fusion of past concepts melded into the ACE body structure. The new NSX is exactly just that- a result of the original NSX, HSC, ASCC, and FC sport.

While I'm not a fan of the plenum, the new Acura grille is acceptable. Personally, I feel the ILX is the most HONDA-ish design to come out of Acura. The lack of LED turn signal mirrors will be a major blow to entry-level luxury buyers looking to move up from Honda. The fact that Honda doesn't have them on their USDM models astounds me. I understand its for price reasons, but a luxury car needs to add these tidbits that the mainstream Honda's don't have.

If there is one concept that I wish Acura would return to and reconsider, its the 1995 CL-X . The concept was beautiful, the production car was a failure of a design. Acura is also in need of an affordable coupe and the NSX doesn't quite answer that bill. The CL needs to be revived.



according2kev
Profile for according2kev
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 19:58
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Potenza wrote:
2. Does the ILX not have integrated turn signals in the door mirrors? Seems like an obvious oversight.I]


Speaking of mirrors, the ILX and Accord Concept mirrors look just like the ones on the current Accord.
TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 21:41
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Potenza wrote:


Okay, having posted this picture and looking back on it, I suddenly notice there are 5 LED sections in the headlights.

From Mr Ikeda in the NSX video: "The LED headlight look - this 5 we've got on here - it's something that we're definitely looking up for in the future vehicles that we'll be going forward with."

It seems to me that they are still using plenty of ideas from the Advanced Sedan Concept (ASC, pictured) and Advance Sports Car Concept (ASCC) "Tier One" concepts from many years ago. Which to me means that the design team is likely entirely unchanged, despite the Power Plenum and other undesirable styling directions.



I think I remember Jeff saying the new RL had these headlights two (5/side).
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 21:53
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TurkMan71 wrote:
Potenza wrote:


Okay, having posted this picture and looking back on it, I suddenly notice there are 5 LED sections in the headlights.

From Mr Ikeda in the NSX video: "The LED headlight look - this 5 we've got on here - it's something that we're definitely looking up for in the future vehicles that we'll be going forward with."

It seems to me that they are still using plenty of ideas from the Advanced Sedan Concept (ASC, pictured) and Advance Sports Car Concept (ASCC) "Tier One" concepts from many years ago. Which to me means that the design team is likely entirely unchanged, despite the Power Plenum and other undesirable styling directions.



I think I remember Jeff saying the new RL had these headlights two (5/side).



actually on the photo of the RL we were shown, the headlamp housing was a similar shape to the current one but there were two horizontal rows of multiple small LED elements housed within it - it appeared to be 2 rows of 5 elements. But yeah, the 5 LEDs on the ASC do bear a resemblance to the lighting elements on the new NSX concept.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 22:30
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Ikeda is the guy behind the 2004 TL. He definitely doesn't lack for passion and I think that was the best looking design to come out of Acura in ages.

Aside from public speaking issues, perhaps he's not all that enamored with some of the styling direction Acura has taken. I can't see him being the driving force behind some of the crap that came out over the last 5 years. That said, the RDX definitely feels like Ikeda played a part in it. It still looks like an RDX to me, just more mature and better resolved than the first generation.

SC

dominik331 wrote:
I also felt the lack of passion on this guy while talking. Could be he's just not a good talker in front of the camera or.. a reflection of what we have seen coming out of Acura?

TurkMan71
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-19-2012 23:06
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Gosh that ASC is horrendous...just sayin
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-20-2012 05:06
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saitamahonda wrote:
If there is one concept that I wish Acura would return to and reconsider, its the 1995 CL-X . The concept was beautiful, the production car was a failure of a design. Acura is also in need of an affordable coupe and the NSX doesn't quite answer that bill. The CL needs to be revived.




You do realize that it's the golden rule of the internet: You'll pine for it when they don't make it, but if they did, you (or somebody) would then complain that it's based on the Accord and that the front overhang is terrible.
Ganplosive
Profile for Ganplosive
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-20-2012 08:14
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when will this cycle ever end? Rinse and repeat every 4 years forrealsies
Trip
Profile for Trip
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-20-2012 10:02
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I've always hated this concept:




Reminds me of this:



saitamahonda
Profile for saitamahonda
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-20-2012 19:26
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Colin wrote:

You do realize that it's the golden rule of the internet: You'll pine for it when they don't make it, but if they did, you (or somebody) would then complain that it's based on the Accord and that the front overhang is terrible.



Sure,you can criticize the execution of a design all you want (that's normal), but my wish is for a CL type coupe to make it's way back into the lineup. The Honda Accord Coupe is not a reason to not have an Acura coupe.

I wouldn't have any qualms about it having Accord coupe underpinnings, but that's probably because i don't own an Accord Coupe already(though I won't spend 30k+ on a Honda coupe, but I'd definitely for an Acura coupe), and it would have to differentiate itself from it's cousin in a way that justifies the premium brand price tag. The overhangs are something that won't go away from the FF Acura (though the ILX does a great job keeping it minimal), and personally I've never had a problem with the overhang on my wife's 07. The 7th gen Accord Coupe/Sedan too had a shapely overhang. It's not so much the overhang but the shape of the nose.

My intent on showing the CL-X concept isn't to say that Acura should make that car in its exact concept form, but more so on the design language that it represented in 1995 - no Honda concept before the CL-X had the flowing "emotional" lines and shapes that the CL-X had. The hood of the CL-X concept carried over to some other concepts, like the ASC, but the shape of the car was so not Acura that it wowed many people. That WOW factor was gone from Acura concepts until the NSX was revived. Another reason why I mentioned the CL-X is that I have a hunch there is a CL or RSX type coupe concept coming down the Acura pipeline.

I base this on a few of the pauses and comments by Ikeda-san, but also from my talks with others in the know who say "they're probably doing an acura coupe design study".

The CIVIC redesign was far from that, and as others have mentioned, the new ILX is basically the civic redesign that could have been. The Accord Coupe may not have changed much for the same reason the Civic coupe/sedan did not.
Could there be an Accord/Civic Coupe based Acura in the works? Totally conceivable. If the Accord Coupe concept got the ILX treatment, I would be ecstatic. Same for the Civic coupe. An ILX nose/hood with its swept back A-pillars and pushed back greenhouse would take the Civic platform a long ways too. Jon Ikeda says so himself - there's so much you could do with these(his comment pertaining to the Accord) platforms.

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-20-2012 23:20
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saitamahonda wrote:
Colin wrote:

You do realize that it's the golden rule of the internet: You'll pine for it when they don't make it, but if they did, you (or somebody) would then complain that it's based on the Accord and that the front overhang is terrible.


Sure,you can criticize the execution of a design all you want (that's normal), but my wish is for a CL type coupe to make it's way back into the lineup. The Honda Accord Coupe is not a reason to not have an Acura coupe.


I wasn't criticizing the design at all, that concept was what prompted me to consider working for Acura in the first place. I was trying to make sarcastic social (forum) commentary. Sorry it didn't come through and made you write so much in response when all I was shooting for was an LOL...

But on the topic you raised. I know we need an Acura coupe, and Acura knows they need a coupe. However, I never (and I mean NEVER) want to see a V-6 hung over the front wheel centerline unless it's got some kind of AWD and torque vectoring. Been through two generations of CLs and never want to revisit that again.

I know what I'd like to see. If the new NSX is an RL with the drivetrain moved to the back (and massaged), and the twin motors in the front, then I want the same thing with the Civic or Fit chassis.

Take the Engine subframe, transmission and all, and move it to the back. Yes, I'm asking for a Honda/Acura interpretation of an MR-2, price it in the low 30's like the S2000 was and I think it would be a success.
dominik331
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-21-2012 00:03
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Mr. Ikeda sure looks more excited on this video below. Although, he also seems excited about the new NSX and said it's fun to work at Acura right now.



Road&Track Interview
dominik331
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-21-2012 00:07
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dominik331 wrote:
Mr. Ikeda sure looks more excited on this video below. Although, he also seems excited about the new NSX and said it's fun to work at Acura right now.



Road&Track Interview




Link did not go to meant video. Also found on AcuraConnected
saitamahonda
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-21-2012 09:53
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Colin wrote:
saitamahonda wrote:
Colin wrote:

You do realize that it's the golden rule of the internet: You'll pine for it when they don't make it, but if they did, you (or somebody) would then complain that it's based on the Accord and that the front overhang is terrible.


Sure,you can criticize the execution of a design all you want (that's normal), but my wish is for a CL type coupe to make it's way back into the lineup. The Honda Accord Coupe is not a reason to not have an Acura coupe.


I wasn't criticizing the design at all, that concept was what prompted me to consider working for Acura in the first place. I was trying to make sarcastic social (forum) commentary. Sorry it didn't come through and made you write so much in response when all I was shooting for was an LOL...

But on the topic you raised. I know we need an Acura coupe, and Acura knows they need a coupe. However, I never (and I mean NEVER) want to see a V-6 hung over the front wheel centerline unless it's got some kind of AWD and torque vectoring. Been through two generations of CLs and never want to revisit that again.

I know what I'd like to see. If the new NSX is an RL with the drivetrain moved to the back (and massaged), and the twin motors in the front, then I want the same thing with the Civic or Fit chassis.

Take the Engine subframe, transmission and all, and move it to the back. Yes, I'm asking for a Honda/Acura interpretation of an MR-2, price it in the low 30's like the S2000 was and I think it would be a success.



hehe, my initial thought was "ain't that the truth".

I'm with you on the drivetrain, and I for one would love to see a v6 mounted into an S2000 sized car. Wasn't HPD playing around with an S2000 stuffed with a V6 inside it? I always wondered what the result of that experiment was and was hoping it would someday be a prototype of an FR or FR-AWD. It could look like a scaled down HSV and make all the Super GT fans like myself happy. That car won the darn championship in its maiden year for crying out loud! After the NSX got banned Honda came right back proved that they could make an FR that's balance was so perfect that it was easy to drive.

I just don't get why Acura's line up is only 5-6 cars? There should be 8! A CL and mini-van type car would be ideal. Is that too much to ask? :(
Mikeydred
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-21-2012 11:50
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Colin wrote:
saitamahonda wrote:
Colin wrote:

You do realize that it's the golden rule of the internet: You'll pine for it when they don't make it, but if they did, you (or somebody) would then complain that it's based on the Accord and that the front overhang is terrible.


Sure,you can criticize the execution of a design all you want (that's normal), but my wish is for a CL type coupe to make it's way back into the lineup. The Honda Accord Coupe is not a reason to not have an Acura coupe.


I wasn't criticizing the design at all, that concept was what prompted me to consider working for Acura in the first place. I was trying to make sarcastic social (forum) commentary. Sorry it didn't come through and made you write so much in response when all I was shooting for was an LOL...

But on the topic you raised. I know we need an Acura coupe, and Acura knows they need a coupe. However, I never (and I mean NEVER) want to see a V-6 hung over the front wheel centerline unless it's got some kind of AWD and torque vectoring. Been through two generations of CLs and never want to revisit that again.

I know what I'd like to see. If the new NSX is an RL with the drivetrain moved to the back (and massaged), and the twin motors in the front, then I want the same thing with the Civic or Fit chassis.

Take the Engine subframe, transmission and all, and move it to the back. Yes, I'm asking for a Honda/Acura interpretation of an MR-2, price it in the low 30's like the S2000 was and I think it would be a success.


Like I said before, that's why they need to keep the mechanical SH-AWD. We know the designers view this site, hopefully the engineers do too.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-21-2012 22:08
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saitamahonda wrote:
Colin wrote:
saitamahonda wrote:
Colin wrote:

You do realize that it's the golden rule of the internet: You'll pine for it when they don't make it, but if they did, you (or somebody) would then complain that it's based on the Accord and that the front overhang is terrible.


Sure,you can criticize the execution of a design all you want (that's normal), but my wish is for a CL type coupe to make it's way back into the lineup. The Honda Accord Coupe is not a reason to not have an Acura coupe.


I wasn't criticizing the design at all, that concept was what prompted me to consider working for Acura in the first place. I was trying to make sarcastic social (forum) commentary. Sorry it didn't come through and made you write so much in response when all I was shooting for was an LOL...

But on the topic you raised. I know we need an Acura coupe, and Acura knows they need a coupe. However, I never (and I mean NEVER) want to see a V-6 hung over the front wheel centerline unless it's got some kind of AWD and torque vectoring. Been through two generations of CLs and never want to revisit that again.

I know what I'd like to see. If the new NSX is an RL with the drivetrain moved to the back (and massaged), and the twin motors in the front, then I want the same thing with the Civic or Fit chassis.

Take the Engine subframe, transmission and all, and move it to the back. Yes, I'm asking for a Honda/Acura interpretation of an MR-2, price it in the low 30's like the S2000 was and I think it would be a success.



hehe, my initial thought was "ain't that the truth".

I'm with you on the drivetrain, and I for one would love to see a v6 mounted into an S2000 sized car. Wasn't HPD playing around with an S2000 stuffed with a V6 inside it? I always wondered what the result of that experiment was and was hoping it would someday be a prototype of an FR or FR-AWD. It could look like a scaled down HSV and make all the Super GT fans like myself happy. That car won the darn championship in its maiden year for crying out loud! After the NSX got banned Honda came right back proved that they could make an FR that's balance was so perfect that it was easy to drive.

I just don't get why Acura's line up is only 5-6 cars? There should be 8! A CL and mini-van type car would be ideal. Is that too much to ask? :(



The last thing that Acura needs right now is to divide its attention between 8 different niche models. Take the ones it has now, refine them, make them best in class. We've seen Honda distracted before by a whole lot of one-off failures, it would not be beneficial for them to keep doing that.
Colin
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-21-2012 22:37
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CarPhreakD wrote:
The last thing that Acura needs right now is to divide its attention between 8 different niche models.


You know, pre-carpocalypse, there were plans to bring the lineup to 10-12 models.
Ganplosive
Profile for Ganplosive
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 02:11
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More models are fine, as long as they are competent models that are truly different from one another. I'm totally ok with the ZDX, it appeals to people looking a special something that's not offered elsewhere in the line-up, and might potentially draw customers AWAY from the competition. No one is going to go into Acura looking at sedans, see the ZDX and leave. Likewise, people will go into Acura to look at the ZDX, and possibly leave with something else.

However, when they're offering cars like the TSX, TL, and RL in its current setup, that's where I have a problem. Acura doesn't make it very easy to sell its sedans, when all 3 are just so damn close to being a clusterf**k with one another in size, offerings and power. 276HP FWD V6 TSX vs 280HP FWD V6 TL vs 305HP AWD V6TL vs 300HP AWD V6 RL.

It doesn't help when your mid-level sedan boasts the most powerful engine, or when your V6 TSX satisfies so readily both the TL and RL crowd. Differentiation. There needs to be a reason why I NEED / WANT a higher up model. The ZDX is its profile and interior design. If that's what I WANT / NEED, I can't get it satisfied from other vehicles in the lineup. If I want a small car, currently the smallest I can go is TSX, which is 3g TL size. If I want a big car, the largest I can go is RL, which is only 3g TL+ size. Already, Acura's losing out the 7-series, and 1-series customers by not offering something as simple as size in those departments, despite customers want for something with Acura reliability.

Hopefully, this lineup shakdown in the coming years will somewhat fix that problem. Acura still needs to fill its lineup with a good amount of models that will make us a true luxury contender, not some pretend posh brand like Volvo / Saab.

This is what I THINK Acura needs, especially as it intends to enter the global market, modeled closely to the other successful players -

(drive trains are whatever Acura can fit / afford, assume hybridization)

Sub-Entry Lux Sedan -ILX- $27k-$31k
Coupe -ILX- $28k-$32k

Entry Lux Sedan -TSX- $33k-$38k
Wagon -TSX- $34k-$39k

Entry Lux SUV - RDX - $33k - $37k

Lux Sedan -TL- $41k-$52k
Coupe -TL- $43k-$55k

Lux SUV - MDX - $43k-$54k
Coupe -ZDX- $46-$56k

Special Coupe -HSV???- $65k-$70k

Flagship SUV -???- $58k-$64k (prolly a 7 seater, if Acura wants to take the Pilot platform)

Flagship Sedan -RL- $62k-$90k

Halo Sports Model - NSX - $115k-$125k



Of course this is what they shout be shooting for, over perhaps the next decade or so as capacity increases. Now you have a filled out line up that allows an entry point into the brand at $27k, and fills them out all the way to $100k. We won't have the old Acura problem of $26k Integras vs $90k NSX's in the same showroom, with little to nothing in between for the shoppers.



But who am I kidding, we'd be lucky to have 7 models - 3 sedans, 3 SUV's, 1 super car.
Ganplosive
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Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 02:16
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sh*t sorry guys, I forgot to add convertible. It should go under special coupe.

Lux Covertible -HSV- $67k - $72k

annnnnd might as well

Halo Convertible -NSX- $120k-$130k



and throw in some kinda special Type-S line, add basic $5k to whatever model it applies to as per Honda way. Although my preference would've been to split out a true performance line, Type-R and have the performance team (HPD, or whatever racing arm Honda's got) and go crazy with the models, similar to BMW M, Lexus F, Audi S, Mercedes AMG, Infiniti something (I know they're making a performance line for their models).
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 02:18
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Really? You think the ZDX is a good idea when everyone else on TOV (and more appropriately, "regular folks" as indicated by non-existent sales numbers) think that it was a bad waste of resources?
saitamahonda
Profile for saitamahonda
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 05:31
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Colin wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
The last thing that Acura needs right now is to divide its attention between 8 different niche models.


You know, pre-carpocalypse, there were plans to bring the lineup to 10-12 models.



There are still a lot of niches to be filled too.

Reviving Legend, Integra/RSX nameplates would definitely re-spark brand loyalty. I've just started my own family with a baby and hopefully more children to come and I want to step up from my CR-V to a bigger, more luxurious Honda. The Odyssey is too big however and the MDX/RDX ride height will pose ingress/egress issues.

The Stream is a nice sized car in Japan, with 3rd Row Seating. It's taller than the Accord/TSX Wagon, making putting in a child onto a baby seat easier since you don't have to duck and slide your kid in side-ways. An e-AWD hybrid minivan the size of the Stream with 3rd Row seating wouldn't have much competition in the United States. I'm sure there is that niche to fill. Make it look cool and futuristic, like the Honda Sky deck (exterior). Acura needs to fill this niche before other brands figure it out.

Honda+Acura still have much fewer vehicle offerings compared to their close rivals.

22 Nissan + 7 Infiniti = 29 model line up
20 Toyota + 15 Lexus = 25 model line up
11 Kia + 13 Hyundai = 24 model line up
11 Honda + 6 Acura = 17 model line up

Honda JP has 30 different models. There needs to be more offerings, simply put. The other brands are more successful because they cover a bigger audience. Cars like the Elysion, Stream, Beat, Euro Civic Hatchback should be here in the United States as Acuras. Bring the SkyDeck design language to Acura. Let Acura not only be American but also the avenue to which select JDM models make their way to Honda customers here in the States. Keep the tastes and touches Japanese. They will sell. Perhaps not in huge numbers, but it would boost renewed interest in the brand to see never before seen models. That's what Americans want. Something ALL New, but based on confident, reliable, and sound engineering.
Ganplosive
Profile for Ganplosive
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 06:38
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I think it's a great idea. You don't know whether or not those ZDX sales are coming from existing Acura customers. For all we know, the existence of ~100 sales a month @ 55K x 12 months = 66 million in revenue that would've not existed (in America alone) on the bottom line. Now I don't know how much your annual income is, but I think 66 million USD is a lot of good money to be made per year. Bump 100 sales to 200 a month, and you're looking at 132 million a year.

Better yet, you need to step out and see the kind of cachet that the ZDX will hold in a global market. Point is, Acura's offering something not that many people can find, to a small amount of people. That IMO is much better than offering an extremely outdated RL which is being cannibalized by Acura's other vehicles / beaten to death by others.

Look, I get it. You and TOV hate the ZDX. But just because you don't like something, doesn't mean others shouldn't like it either. Despite it's low volume, the ZDX is still selling.

2009 numbers Decembers end - 79
2010 numbers Decembers end - 3529
2011 numbers Decembers end - 1564

That's a total of 5172 units moved total in 2010+2011.
accounting for the average transaction price of say 52K (I highly doubt people buying the ZDX would forgo tech / advanced, I mean it's a ZDX ffs).

5172 x 52,000 = 268,944,000 USD in revenue.. Why the fuck not? There are 5093 people that paid for it. For everyone that hates the ZDX (let's assume 200 million people) to put a dollar AGAINST the ZDX, the model is still out earning ~69 million dollars. Put THAT into perspective.
dominik331
Profile for dominik331
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 11:03
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The ZDX would have been totally fine with Acura enthusiasts if Acura was selling a lot more units of their model popular models (RL for example) and if they had at least one coupe in their line-up. But by investing in a low volume, slow selling and expensive vehicle, a lot of people feel like Acura has neglected other models that would certainly be more popular with the Acura crowd.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 12:27
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That's exactly it. The TL at one point dominated sales charts; the RL did well in its first year. But after that? The 100 sales per year doesn't seem to justify the addition of engineering and manufacturing resources when they could have been instead put towards a much better series of cars that Acura currently has.
Ganplosive
Profile for Ganplosive
Re: Good information [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2012 14:29
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Why not have the cake AND eat it too? Acura MUST kill the ZDX in order to bring coupes and 9000 RPM cars onto the market? Why does everything have to be so either / or?

The ZDX platform shared from the MDX and Pilot was simply there for the taking. The model itself brought new frontiers to Acura interior finishes (and market data for upkeep etc). I don't get the resources and engineering that you guys keep talking about, just how much more did Acura actually invest to draw up the ZDX? Is there an actual statement from Acura that said, "Acura spent __________ and __________ amount of _________ to get the ZDX to the market that would've otherwise gone to ________."?

Let's see... V6 engine, MDX platform, SH-AWD, a group of designers, existing factory capacity and staff. It's not like today they cancelled your coupes and messed up the RL on purpose to get the ZDX out on time. I'll take it a step further - they straight up cancelled the HSV and V8 RL, what about THOSE wasted resources?

I really don't get it. The ZDX was the closest being done, Honda / Acura obviously thought that the model was ready enough for production AND that it was low enough of a cost to continue on with bringing it to market. Now that it's already here, everyone's demanding it be killed by fire. It's not like the ZDX cancelled the V8 RWD HSV / RL / COUPES, it's the market stupid (lighthearted). Had the other products in the pipeline been ready for market, maybe Honda / Acura might have continued forth and brought it to market. I don't know, I'm not Ito-San or a member of the board, and neither are any of us. I'd rather not play the assumption game, but stick with the hard numbers that I've posted further up.

Regardless of how or why it was brought to the market (before times have changed: because it was a sunken cost, because it was low barriers of entry, because Acura was stupid, because Acura can and wanted to, I don't know), the model's already here and introduced IMO a risky move by Acura to push beyond where this traditionally conservative company is willing to go. For what it's worth, the product has found homes in buyers willing to fork over cold-hard-green, and I'm sure it's helped Acura's bottom line more than it hurt it.

Is the ZDX a complete waste of an exercise? Only time will tell. But fwiw - coupe profile, great interior, panoramic roof, new design language, and the audacity to build it while big shots like Audi and Lexus hasn't even dare to venture into (yet, Audi plans to), makes me want to love this car DESPITE THE FACT That it runs completely contrary to the "smart value" proposition that Acura is now devoted to.


BOTTOM LINE: Acura having the ZDX in its lineup bothers me NONE and gives the dealerships one more (unique) product to sell, which in my opinion is a good for a company starved of models.
 
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