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TOV Forums > RDX > > Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD

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nightflow
Profile for nightflow
2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-06-2011 20:51
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Credit to Carbon2008RDX on another forum (acurazine) that mentioned this:

Here are some latest details for the 2013 RDX. Quote from my Acura friend.

"-273 HP from a V6 of a mystery displacement...3.2L possibly?
-EPA 19 or 20 mpg city rating and 27 highway rating.
-Power lift-gate and one touch rear seat fold down available.
-Smoother suspension using Sachs components
-No more SH-AWD. Replaced by a more conventional AWD system. Done to keep price the same as the current RDX as well as saving weight and complexity for the fuel economy which was the major goal.
-Navigation may no longer be operable on the fly due to the possibility of frivolous lawsuits in the US
-Car will debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January"
gumbey
Profile for gumbey
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-06-2011 21:24
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nightflow wrote:
Credit to Carbon2008RDX on another forum (acurazine) that mentioned this:

Here are some latest details for the 2013 RDX. Quote from my Acura friend.


-No more SH-AWD. Replaced by a more conventional AWD system. Done to keep price the same as the current RDX as well as saving weight and complexity for the fuel economy which was the major goal.


That would make it a CR-V. Has to be just a rumor


Last edited by JeffX on 12-06-2011 23:05
auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-06-2011 21:26
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nightflow wrote:
Credit to Carbon2008RDX on another forum (acurazine) that mentioned this:

Here are some latest details for the 2013 RDX. Quote from my Acura friend.

"-273 HP from a V6 of a mystery displacement...3.2L possibly?
-EPA 19 or 20 mpg city rating and 27 highway rating.
-Power lift-gate and one touch rear seat fold down available.
-Smoother suspension using Sachs components
-No more SH-AWD. Replaced by a more conventional AWD system. Done to keep price the same as the current RDX as well as saving weight and complexity for the fuel economy which was the major goal.
-Navigation may no longer be operable on the fly due to the possibility of frivolous lawsuits in the US
-Car will debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January"




273HP V6 will be promising, but I doubt it, since this chassis (shared with CRV) cannot fit a V6 (atleast 3.5L and above). Not sure if Acura will be looking at smaller V6 engines.

AWD without SH is probably fine.

NVH control (besides FE) is what is mostly required on this, without compromising too much on its sporty attributes.



2003_UB313
Profile for 2003_UB313
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-06-2011 23:22
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What's the creditibility of the poster at acurazine?
iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 01:27
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auto_enthu wrote:
nightflow wrote:
Credit to Carbon2008RDX on another forum (acurazine) that mentioned this:

Here are some latest details for the 2013 RDX. Quote from my Acura friend.

"-273 HP from a V6 of a mystery displacement...3.2L possibly?
-EPA 19 or 20 mpg city rating and 27 highway rating.
-Power lift-gate and one touch rear seat fold down available.
-Smoother suspension using Sachs components
-No more SH-AWD. Replaced by a more conventional AWD system. Done to keep price the same as the current RDX as well as saving weight and complexity for the fuel economy which was the major goal.
-Navigation may no longer be operable on the fly due to the possibility of frivolous lawsuits in the US
-Car will debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January"




273HP V6 will be promising, but I doubt it, since this chassis (shared with CRV) cannot fit a V6 (atleast 3.5L and above). Not sure if Acura will be looking at smaller V6 engines.

AWD without SH is probably fine.

NVH control (besides FE) is what is mostly required on this, without compromising too much on its sporty attributes.






Honda does have the new 2.2 L twin-turbo v6 for IndyCar next year. As long as we're rumor mongering why not a single-turbo version of that engine for use in the RDX?

And I was going to say that we should know soon enough either way but we didn't know for sure what engine was going into the CR-V until the first drives came out.

I wonder if the RDX will get an Earth Dreams engine or if the new sub-TSX and the new RDX will be the last cars to not get those engines.
iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 01:41
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I wonder if the FWD version will continue. If the FWD version goes from 19/24 to 20/27 that's not bad I guess (considering it's a 3700 pound SUV). It'd be really impressive if the AWD version could get 20/27. The x3 xdrive28i gets 19/25 with a 240 hp inline 6 and an 8-speed transmission. It also weighs 4100 pounds. The RDX should undercut that weight by several hundred pounds so..we'll see I guess.
auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 02:19
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iutodd wrote:
I wonder if the FWD version will continue. If the FWD version goes from 19/24 to 20/27 that's not bad I guess (considering it's a 3700 pound SUV). It'd be really impressive if the AWD version could get 20/27. The x3 xdrive28i gets 19/25 with a 240 hp inline 6 and an 8-speed transmission. It also weighs 4100 pounds. The RDX should undercut that weight by several hundred pounds so..we'll see I guess.


FWD is fine to stay if it gives atleast +2 mpg better than AWD. Otherwise, there is little benefit. RX350 has FWD version although not sure what percent of its huge sales come from FWD.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 08:51
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auto_enthu wrote:
nightflow wrote:
Credit to Carbon2008RDX on another forum (acurazine) that mentioned this:

Here are some latest details for the 2013 RDX. Quote from my Acura friend.

"-273 HP from a V6 of a mystery displacement...3.2L possibly?
-EPA 19 or 20 mpg city rating and 27 highway rating.
-Power lift-gate and one touch rear seat fold down available.
-Smoother suspension using Sachs components
-No more SH-AWD. Replaced by a more conventional AWD system. Done to keep price the same as the current RDX as well as saving weight and complexity for the fuel economy which was the major goal.
-Navigation may no longer be operable on the fly due to the possibility of frivolous lawsuits in the US
-Car will debut at the Detroit Auto Show in January"




273HP V6 will be promising, but I doubt it, since this chassis (shared with CRV) cannot fit a V6 (atleast 3.5L and above). Not sure if Acura will be looking at smaller V6 engines.

AWD without SH is probably fine.

NVH control (besides FE) is what is mostly required on this, without compromising too much on its sporty attributes.






They're both just undergoing a FMC, so redesigning the front crush can to package the/a V6 is plausible.
GoFaster
Profile for GoFaster
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 09:51
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Someone on TOV wrote/reported months ago that SH-AWD would be replaced by a 4WD system geared towards helping get out of snow drifts and not supreme handling. This is the main reason I didn't wait for the 2013 RDX. Too bad because the only thing wrong with the RDX IMO was the horrible MPG, which they fixed by ruining what made the RDX so great. Oh well. The X3 is a HUGE step up in price.
n8dog82
Profile for n8dog82
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 09:52
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The current RDX is wider than a CRV, and already has what would be a V6 transmission in it to handle the torque. If you can squeeze a J35 in a TSX, you can definitely get a J in a even wider, FMC RDX.
aznxthuggie
Profile for aznxthuggie
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 12:08
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iutodd wrote:
I wonder if the FWD version will continue. If the FWD version goes from 19/24 to 20/27 that's not bad I guess (considering it's a 3700 pound SUV). It'd be really impressive if the AWD version could get 20/27. The x3 xdrive28i gets 19/25 with a 240 hp inline 6 and an 8-speed transmission. It also weighs 4100 pounds. The RDX should undercut that weight by several hundred pounds so..we'll see I guess.

The dealer near my house says the FWD RDX's are selling pretty well. I doubt we'll see it go away.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 13:18
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n8dog82 wrote:
The current RDX is wider than a CRV, and already has what would be a V6 transmission in it to handle the torque. If you can squeeze a J35 in a TSX, you can definitely get a J in a even wider, FMC RDX.



You're probably thinking at cross purposes - literally!

It's the space under the windscreen & the proximity of the front slam panel that means the width of the V6 is a problem for maintenance & crash protection. The CR-V has a Civic-like snout length. A V6 is no longer than an S4.

That's one reason the Accord cars have such ungainly schnozzles.
EX V6 SLUSHER
Profile for EX V6 SLUSHER
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 15:13
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V6, VTM 4, no FWD at launch.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2011 22:08
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GoFaster wrote:
Someone on TOV wrote/reported months ago that SH-AWD would be replaced by a 4WD system geared towards helping get out of snow drifts and not supreme handling. This is the main reason I didn't wait for the 2013 RDX. Too bad because the only thing wrong with the RDX IMO was the horrible MPG, which they fixed by ruining what made the RDX so great. Oh well. The X3 is a HUGE step up in price.


I don't think there's any real difference in fuel economy between VTM-4 and SH-AWD - I mean, all other things being equal, I would think the difference would almost be immeasurable. I'm fairly certain cost would be the primary difference. The RDX's biggest FE enemy is the 2.3T.

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2011 08:59
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If the new RDX came with VTM-4 and not SH-AWD, it would further muddle Acura's rep IMHO...
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2011 09:13
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TurkMan71 wrote:
If the new RDX came with VTM-4 and not SH-AWD, it would further muddle Acura's rep IMHO...


Let's be honest - the benefits of SH-AWD are all but nil in the current 5AT-only, turbo-lag plagued 2.3L RDX.

With a 6MT the vehicle would have been 1000% more fun to drive, more responsive, and possibly even more fuel efficient. The benefits of SH-AWD would have been far more noticeable. But that never happened.

So if Acura ditches SH-AWD (I can't comment on whether or not they are until Dec. 12th) on the RDX, I don't think anybody will notice, honestly.

Heck, just drive a Crosstour with Realtime AWD (a passive system, no less) back to back with a ZDX. Yeah, the SH-AWD offers a small benefit but it's a surprisingly slim one.
TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2011 15:19
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I agree, the actual benefits of SH-AWD/5AT on a CUV for most people is low...but then I think that about the SH-AWD in general with all the Acuras that have it (even with the TL's 6spd manual). It's great tech, but doubt the typical customer uses it to its full abilities (emergency maneuvers not-with-standing, that might be its fatal flaw). That's why this new E SH-AWD seems so appealing - more perceptively useful handling benefits PLUS efficiency.

It would be great if the new RDX had E SH-AWD, for efficiency's sake if anything...but it sounds like it won't get it, at least not initially.

I don't know what the next RDX will have but if it wants to distinguish itself from a CRV it better have something good...

My problem with the RDXs possible elimination of SH-AWD (or the next iteration of that tech) is more from a marketing/branding perspective...Acura already has had a horrendous time of it even WITH the bragging rights of the SH-AWD system. It would APPEAR to be a step back in tech and perceived performance and that's not the direction Acura should be going in, 'smart luxury' be damned...
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-08-2011 16:20
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It was always blindingly obvious that a low-built Prelude-type vehicle could have amply demonstrated the benefits of SH-AWD brilliantly.

I just thought I'd rub it in.
ducmnguyen
Profile for ducmnguyen
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-09-2011 12:45
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I hope Honda/Acura does not take away the navigation on the fly, that is what the OK button is for, when you press OK you agree to the terms.

This was the deal breaker for when I got my odyssey and MDX over the Sienna and the RX 350. I can't stand it when we go somehwere and enter a destination on the navigantion and the wife/kids change their mind and we can't change the destination.

I've heard it all it is a safety feature, give me a freaking break !!! What if I let the passenger change the destination ?
Fishbulb
Profile for Fishbulb
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2011 12:11
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Maybe its just me, but I think a lightened RDX with a 2.5L NA around 210-215HP would sell better than a V6, particularly with gas prices' upward trend.

I also agree the type of awd is irrelevant from a dynamics pov for this vehicle, marketing aside.
Oldguy
Profile for Oldguy
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2011 13:15
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Fishbulb wrote:

Maybe its just me, but I think a lightened RDX with a 2.5L NA around 210-215HP would sell better than a V6, particularly with gas prices' upward trend.



That would make it a slightly more powerful CRV. I have an 09 RDX. Yes it's hard on gas. Yes it rides a bit harsh. But it's got lots of jump and handles better than some cars. The next RDX must retain those features to perpetuate the Acura bloodline already clouded by some of its models. We don't buy Acuras for their gas mileage, at least I don't. It's nice to have, I'll admit but those other enthusiast's qualities we look for in an Acura are more important.
sivikvtec
Profile for sivikvtec
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2011 14:32
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Jeff wrote:
TurkMan71 wrote:
If the new RDX came with VTM-4 and not SH-AWD, it would further muddle Acura's rep IMHO...


Let's be honest - the benefits of SH-AWD are all but nil in the current 5AT-only, turbo-lag plagued 2.3L RDX.

With a 6MT the vehicle would have been 1000% more fun to drive, more responsive, and possibly even more fuel efficient. The benefits of SH-AWD would have been far more noticeable. But that never happened.

So if Acura ditches SH-AWD (I can't comment on whether or not they are until Dec. 12th) on the RDX, I don't think anybody will notice, honestly.

Heck, just drive a Crosstour with Realtime AWD (a passive system, no less) back to back with a ZDX. Yeah, the SH-AWD offers a small benefit but it's a surprisingly slim one.



Jeff, what is on the 12th?
JS_vtec
Profile for JS_vtec
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-10-2011 17:30
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Test drove back to back both RDX and TL SH-AWD in snow. It's day and night. TL has more power to the rear wheels all the time, and don't need lot of front wheels slippage to transfer power to rear wheels. Much better driveability in snow, more like Quattro system.

I really don't understand why Acura tuned the SH-AWD on the RDX so bad...
Fishbulb
Profile for Fishbulb
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-11-2011 12:17
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I don't think its anything to do with the SHAWD "tuning". Its how the system worked with the laggy throttle response.

I had an RDX for two years, and it was by far the most annoying vehicle I have ever owned, from an engine/transmission POV. It felt like it had 300 horsepower when you didn't need it to, and 90 horsepower when you actually needed to pass or accelerate into a hole in traffic. No more turbos for me.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2011 08:22
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http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111212/CARNEWS/111219999
As for the RDX, the previous generation has been criticized for the jerkiness of its turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The new RDX will have a V6 with "top-class fuel economy," Poponi said.

The RDX also will use the Honda CR-V's simpler electric power steering and all-wheel-drive systems, rather than the pricier Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system of the old RDX. Poponi says it will be "quieter, roomier and more comfortable."
GoFaster
Profile for GoFaster
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2011 11:40
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Turbo lag or Honda electronic throttle causes delay? My 2003 V6 Accord, a lot older than new, has a one second delay when I smash the accelerator. The entire point of electronic throttles was to smooth out the drivers foot to obtain the best MPG, so it appears the computer waits to see if you made a mistake, or not, before delivering what you requested. Smash...nothing...nothing...EVERYTHING.

Honestly I don't know which it is, but I replaced my Miata (throttle cable that was instant and perfect response) with a twin turbo BMW and I don't have any lag at all.

I only test drove the 2011 RDX SH-AWD and I really liked it, and I LOVE taking corners at speed. Yes, I could feel the SH-AWD even just making right hand turns around corners.

BMW has these video showing why their machines are better than others. The X3 vs. Previous RDX shows there is 800 lbs more hanging over the nose of the RDX than the X3. V6 will only make this worse. Not having SH-AWD means there is nothing to try to fight the understeer of so much weight over the nose. Unless Acura has really changed the hood of the RDX, this seems to me to be a soccer mom machine.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2011 11:46
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GoFaster wrote:
Turbo lag or Honda electronic throttle causes delay? My 2003 V6 Accord, a lot older than new, has a one second delay when I smash the accelerator. The entire point of electronic throttles was to smooth out the drivers foot to obtain the best MPG, so it appears the computer waits to see if you made a mistake, or not, before delivering what you requested. Smash...nothing...nothing...EVERYTHING.

Honestly I don't know which it is, but I replaced my Miata (throttle cable that was instant and perfect response) with a twin turbo BMW and I don't have any lag at all.

I only test drove the 2011 RDX SH-AWD and I really liked it, and I LOVE taking corners at speed. Yes, I could feel the SH-AWD even just making right hand turns around corners.

BMW has these video showing why their machines are better than others. The X3 vs. Previous RDX shows there is 800 lbs more hanging over the nose of the RDX than the X3. V6 will only make this worse. Not having SH-AWD means there is nothing to try to fight the understeer of so much weight over the nose. Unless Acura has really changed the hood of the RDX, this seems to me to be a soccer mom machine.




I think this segment of vehicles is OVERWHELMINGLY purchased by "soccer moms" so it probably makes sense for Acura to cater it more to "soccer moms". At least "young" moms or maybe the better generalization would be "moms that want to look young."
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2011 11:48
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I get that the majority of RDX shoppers probably do not care or even utilize SH-AWD but it was a nice way to differentiate the Acura from the Honda line ...
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2011 12:49
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TSX69 wrote:
I get that the majority of RDX shoppers probably do not care or even utilize SH-AWD but it was a nice way to differentiate the Acura from the Honda line ...


I would have been much happier with the RDX if sensing that differentiation was something that didn't require driving it like Takuma Sato trying to save his seat in F1.
Vaff2
Profile for Vaff2
Re: 2013 RDX rumor: no more "SH" in the AWD    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-12-2011 21:28
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If Acura is really interested in fuel economy, I also hope they run on regular fuel. Here in Canada, the difference is creeping up to 0.14/L between regular and premium fuel. $15/fill isn't necessarily a deterrent, but does Shell really need the money more than I do?

Vaughn
 
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