Hondasrule wrote: Thanks longhorn, something to look forward to. If it does show up, it means it will a maximum of 6 months before we know what it'll look like.
Better than waiting till next year, that's for sure.
Very Tight lipped. I still can't get out of anyone if it will be IMA or a Prius type set up. If it is a Prius killer, then it has to work like one.
In it's current form IMA can't acheive the city/Hwy millage the Prius can. It will be interedting. Will it have a stronger then 158 volts to compare to Prius 500 wapping volts? Will it have a stronger IMA motor? It's exciting to wait for.
And lets hope for this new car, Honda goes balls to the wall with the ADDS.
HONDA AFVM wrote: Very Tight lipped. I still can't get out of anyone if it will be IMA or a Prius type set up. If it is a Prius killer, then it has to work like one.
In it's current form IMA can't acheive the city/Hwy millage the Prius can. It will be interedting. Will it have a stronger then 158 volts to compare to Prius 500 wapping volts? Will it have a stronger IMA motor? It's exciting to wait for.
And lets hope for this new car, Honda goes balls to the wall with the ADDS.
I thought one of the articles said it would be a smaller and lighter more efficient IMA (don't know if they were speculating).
I know you feel this might not be enough but think about it, if they manage to increase the power on the electric motor and the size of the battery while reducing the system's weight with increased efficiency. That combined with a lower overall vehicle weight compared to the Civic Hybrid by say 250lbs. (with a substantially increased electric-only-mode just to make you happy :) - maybe not electric-only from takeoff but increased anyway.
Now, supose this new hybrid achieves only a couple more MPG than the current Prius (that's good but what will the next Prius bring right? - wait a sec).
If you add to it a substantially lower MSRP compared to the Civic or the Prius - by say 2 grand? In my opinion that would make it a Prius killer! Even if the next Prius increases MPG by 10% the Global Small Hybrid will have the price advantage eaisly quadrupling the Civic Hybrid's sales the first year as they expect and I bet it will better Prius' sales not long after that!
I wish they'd announce the name so we could start getting excited. We've been hearing about Volt this, Volt that from GM. I want to hear about the Honda whatever-it's-called. Surely they've already chosen a name and had it trademarked.
...and HONDA AFVM since you sell both the Civic Hybrid and the Prius, do you have any idea how much the replacement batteries are for these?
I know the batteries are suppose to last a long time (I've heard the life of the vehicle), but just out of curiousity I wonder what the price difference is (for some reason I feel it might be somewhat of a secret for the Prius as it has to be more expensive than the Civic's).
HONDA AFVM wrote: Very Tight lipped. I still can't get out of anyone if it will be IMA or a Prius type set up. If it is a Prius killer, then it has to work like one.
In it's current form IMA can't acheive the city/Hwy millage the Prius can. It will be interedting. Will it have a stronger then 158 volts to compare to Prius 500 wapping volts? Will it have a stronger IMA motor? It's exciting to wait for.
And lets hope for this new car, Honda goes balls to the wall with the ADDS.
I thought one of the articles said it would be a smaller and lighter more efficient IMA (don't know if they were speculating).
I know you feel this might not be enough but think about it, if they manage to increase the power on the electric motor and the size of the battery while reducing the system's weight with increased efficiency. That combined with a lower overall vehicle weight compared to the Civic Hybrid by say 250lbs. (with a substantially increased electric-only-mode just to make you happy :) - maybe not electric-only from takeoff but increased anyway.
Now, supose this new hybrid achieves only a couple more MPG than the current Prius (that's good but what will the next Prius bring right? - wait a sec).
If you add to it a substantially lower MSRP compared to the Civic or the Prius - by say 2 grand? In my opinion that would make it a Prius killer! Even if the next Prius increases MPG by 10% the Global Small Hybrid will have the price advantage eaisly quadrupling the Civic Hybrid's sales the first year as they expect and I bet it will better Prius' sales not long after that!
1) Honda has already gone on record stating that the car will have an IMA-style powertrain. So something like the Hybrid Synergy Drive isn't even on the table. Besides, the HSD only has an advantage for the folks who dream of plug-in conversions. Otherwise, it's overly complicated and way more expensive to manufacture than Honda's IMA approach, and there's no real benefit in real-world fuel economy
2) I could be mistaken, but haven't there been a load of discussions and even organized complaints from groups of Prius owners who have seen significantly worse fuel economy than what the EPA numbers suggest? And maybe my recollection is clouded, but wasn't there evidence to suggest that the Civic Hybrid was actually delivering better "real-world" fuel economy numbers on average than the Prius?
I think this new global small hybrid will have superior numbers to the civic hybrid - I'm expecting it to come in at a lighter weight and I'm also expecting Honda to make continued refinements to the technology which will net some gains. I don't know if they're going to hold to it, but Honda also initially stated that they were targeting for this car to come in well under $20k.
A coworker has a 07 Civic Hybrid and gets 50 mpg,another coworker has a Ford Escape Hybrid with the same hybrid tech as in the Prius. He averages about 37 mpg which is impressive given the size of the Ford Escape. So there may be something to Honda's way of doing things.
A vehicle that has a similar profile to the Clarity, $20K price tag and getting 60mpg will definately be a hit. Just in time to with Prius debuting next January and the Volt in Nov of 09. Don't forget VW debuting the 60mpg Diesel Jetta thats 50 state legal this fall too. Exciting times for the consumer.
Jeff wrote: 2) I could be mistaken, but haven't there been a load of discussions and even organized complaints from groups of Prius owners who have seen significantly worse fuel economy than what the EPA numbers suggest? And maybe my recollection is clouded, but wasn't there evidence to suggest that the Civic Hybrid was actually delivering better "real-world" fuel economy numbers on average than the Prius?
Based on 292 entries at fueleconomy.gov, the Prius achieves an average of 46.8mpg in combined driving, and has an EPA rating of 46 combined. Based on 169 entries, the HCH does 44mpg in combined driving, and is rated to 42 combined. These averages are for '06-'08 model years only.
The HCH does do better in real world driving compared to its EPA rating, and it certainly is no slouch compared to the Prius. It would be interesting to see figures reported from other hybrid user websites.
Really, the advantages of the Synergy system are mostly on paper. Honda is wise to stick with the IMA system, and despite their hefty disadvantage from the start (Toyota R&D being funded by the government) they have managed to even the playing field using engineering genius. Brilliant!
The situations where the Prius and Escape hybrids shine are in the city and traffic jams. I am presently using a rental Ford Escape hybrid and when in traffic I find it hard to believe that a Civic Hybrid with its off and on engine between stop and go s is more efficient than the heavier Escape chugging along on battery power.
However at highway speeds say 70-75 mph all the benefits of the Ford and Toyota hybrid systems are gone and pure physics take over. Its at highway speeds where Honda's IMA system shines so says my coworker who owns one.
Potenza wrote: I wish they'd announce the name so we could start getting excited. We've been hearing about Volt this, Volt that from GM. I want to hear about the Honda whatever-it's-called. Surely they've already chosen a name and had it trademarked.
longhorn wrote: The situations where the Prius and Escape hybrids shine are in the city and traffic jams. I am presently using a rental Ford Escape hybrid and when in traffic I find it hard to believe that a Civic Hybrid with its off and on engine between stop and go s is more efficient than the heavier Escape chugging along on battery power.
However at highway speeds say 70-75 mph all the benefits of the Ford and Toyota hybrid systems are gone and pure physics take over. Its at highway speeds where Honda's IMA system shines so says my coworker who owns one.
yeah, what's interesting to me is that Honda's strategy with the IMA assist seems pretty conservative. There are times when there is nearly a full battery charge and you're accelerating mildly but according to the little video game screen, the electric motor is barely providing any propulsion.
longhorn wrote: The situations where the Prius and Escape hybrids shine are in the city and traffic jams. I am presently using a rental Ford Escape hybrid and when in traffic I find it hard to believe that a Civic Hybrid with its off and on engine between stop and go s is more efficient than the heavier Escape chugging along on battery power.
However at highway speeds say 70-75 mph all the benefits of the Ford and Toyota hybrid systems are gone and pure physics take over. Its at highway speeds where Honda's IMA system shines so says my coworker who owns one.
yeah, what's interesting to me is that Honda's strategy with the IMA assist seems pretty conservative. There are times when there is nearly a full battery charge and you're accelerating mildly but according to the little video game screen, the electric motor is barely providing any propulsion.
Sounds like a more agressive IMA assist could boost MPG - downside would be running out of juice sooner during longer than usual assist periods. Maybe the system can become more aggressive as it learns certain driving patterns.
Hondasrule wrote: ...and HONDA AFVM since you sell both the Civic Hybrid and the Prius, do you have any idea how much the replacement batteries are for these?
I know the batteries are suppose to last a long time (I've heard the life of the vehicle), but just out of curiousity I wonder what the price difference is (for some reason I feel it might be somewhat of a secret for the Prius as it has to be more expensive than the Civic's).
One of my customers has a Gen 1 Prius and he replaced the pack @ 168k. He was in another state at the time and Toyota charged him $4,400. He called Toyota and complained and they sent him a check for $2,200. I asked him if you just had a corolla and it needed a new trans or engine at 168k would you have called? his answer was "NO"!
So why did you call about the battery pack? He said; I felt the rest of the car was good for another 168k so what did I have to lose?, I feel I got a deal.
Now that was old tech. I imagine the new pack is around 20 to 25% more, but they are bullet proof like the Honda one is. They both only use 40 to 50% of their capacity so they last longer.
I had an Insight customers (2000 M.Y.) pack go at over 170k and Honda didn't charge him, but that is all 2000 and 2001 models. Its not worth the negative blogs to charge the customer for a new battery. If 10 go a year what do they lose, 50k? that's chump change compared the Bull that will tare through the world wide web and cost the company sales..
HONDA AFVM wrote: Very Tight lipped. I still can't get out of anyone if it will be IMA or a Prius type set up. If it is a Prius killer, then it has to work like one.
In it's current form IMA can't acheive the city/Hwy millage the Prius can. It will be interedting. Will it have a stronger then 158 volts to compare to Prius 500 wapping volts? Will it have a stronger IMA motor? It's exciting to wait for.
And lets hope for this new car, Honda goes balls to the wall with the ADDS.
I thought one of the articles said it would be a smaller and lighter more efficient IMA (don't know if they were speculating).
I know you feel this might not be enough but think about it, if they manage to increase the power on the electric motor and the size of the battery while reducing the system's weight with increased efficiency. That combined with a lower overall vehicle weight compared to the Civic Hybrid by say 250lbs. (with a substantially increased electric-only-mode just to make you happy :) - maybe not electric-only from takeoff but increased anyway.
Now, supose this new hybrid achieves only a couple more MPG than the current Prius (that's good but what will the next Prius bring right? - wait a sec).
If you add to it a substantially lower MSRP compared to the Civic or the Prius - by say 2 grand? In my opinion that would make it a Prius killer! Even if the next Prius increases MPG by 10% the Global Small Hybrid will have the price advantage eaisly quadrupling the Civic Hybrid's sales the first year as they expect and I bet it will better Prius' sales not long after that!
1) Honda has already gone on record stating that the car will have an IMA-style powertrain. So something like the Hybrid Synergy Drive isn't even on the table. Besides, the HSD only has an advantage for the folks who dream of plug-in conversions. Otherwise, it's overly complicated and way more expensive to manufacture than Honda's IMA approach, and there's no real benefit in real-world fuel economy
2) I could be mistaken, but haven't there been a load of discussions and even organized complaints from groups of Prius owners who have seen significantly worse fuel economy than what the EPA numbers suggest? And maybe my recollection is clouded, but wasn't there evidence to suggest that the Civic Hybrid was actually delivering better "real-world" fuel economy numbers on average than the Prius?
I think this new global small hybrid will have superior numbers to the civic hybrid - I'm expecting it to come in at a lighter weight and I'm also expecting Honda to make continued refinements to the technology which will net some gains. I don't know if they're going to hold to it, but Honda also initially stated that they were targeting for this car to come in well under $20k.
Yes, your correct about the Prius to an extent. Most of my customers get close to the old numbers because I take the time to teach them how to drive a hybrid. My numbers are very high with both cars, I won't post them because most will think I'm not telling the truth, especially with the Prius.
You are correct about the IMA. I got a conformation on it just after my post. (last year I heard from a high up official from Honda that visited our dealer it was a Prius like system, that is why I didn't want to believe the IMA) My understanding is a pack the size of current (in mass) with 170 to 185 volts (current Civic pack is 158 volts). That along with a stronger motor, lighter weight and better aerodynamics will allow a better "electric only" range that the current Civic is to heavy to make useful.
A greater electric only range at HWY speeds and while moving at 25 to 45mph too will kill the prius. Once the momentum is going, electric only would be a great benefit at those speeds
.
longhorn wrote: The situations where the Prius and Escape hybrids shine are in the city and traffic jams. I am presently using a rental Ford Escape hybrid and when in traffic I find it hard to believe that a Civic Hybrid with its off and on engine between stop and go s is more efficient than the heavier Escape chugging along on battery power.
However at highway speeds say 70-75 mph all the benefits of the Ford and Toyota hybrid systems are gone and pure physics take over. Its at highway speeds where Honda's IMA system shines so says my coworker who owns one.
yeah, what's interesting to me is that Honda's strategy with the IMA assist seems pretty conservative. There are times when there is nearly a full battery charge and you're accelerating mildly but according to the little video game screen, the electric motor is barely providing any propulsion.
I notice the same. I use the cruise and it changes the way the car thinks at any speed above 25mph. I was driving one today and I was impressed on how much electric only I got between 25 and 35mph on city streets. I love to watch the civics mpg meter sit at 100mpg while holding 30mph on a flat road.
HONDA AFVM wrote: Very Tight lipped. I still can't get out of anyone if it will be IMA or a Prius type set up. If it is a Prius killer, then it has to work like one.
In it's current form IMA can't acheive the city/Hwy millage the Prius can. It will be interedting. Will it have a stronger then 158 volts to compare to Prius 500 wapping volts? Will it have a stronger IMA motor? It's exciting to wait for.
And lets hope for this new car, Honda goes balls to the wall with the ADDS.
I thought one of the articles said it would be a smaller and lighter more efficient IMA (don't know if they were speculating).
I know you feel this might not be enough but think about it, if they manage to increase the power on the electric motor and the size of the battery while reducing the system's weight with increased efficiency. That combined with a lower overall vehicle weight compared to the Civic Hybrid by say 250lbs. (with a substantially increased electric-only-mode just to make you happy :) - maybe not electric-only from takeoff but increased anyway.
Now, supose this new hybrid achieves only a couple more MPG than the current Prius (that's good but what will the next Prius bring right? - wait a sec).
If you add to it a substantially lower MSRP compared to the Civic or the Prius - by say 2 grand? In my opinion that would make it a Prius killer! Even if the next Prius increases MPG by 10% the Global Small Hybrid will have the price advantage eaisly quadrupling the Civic Hybrid's sales the first year as they expect and I bet it will better Prius' sales not long after that!
1) Honda has already gone on record stating that the car will have an IMA-style powertrain. So something like the Hybrid Synergy Drive isn't even on the table. Besides, the HSD only has an advantage for the folks who dream of plug-in conversions. Otherwise, it's overly complicated and way more expensive to manufacture than Honda's IMA approach, and there's no real benefit in real-world fuel economy
2) I could be mistaken, but haven't there been a load of discussions and even organized complaints from groups of Prius owners who have seen significantly worse fuel economy than what the EPA numbers suggest? And maybe my recollection is clouded, but wasn't there evidence to suggest that the Civic Hybrid was actually delivering better "real-world" fuel economy numbers on average than the Prius?
I think this new global small hybrid will have superior numbers to the civic hybrid - I'm expecting it to come in at a lighter weight and I'm also expecting Honda to make continued refinements to the technology which will net some gains. I don't know if they're going to hold to it, but Honda also initially stated that they were targeting for this car to come in well under $20k.
Yes, your correct about the Prius to an extent. Most of my customers get close to the old numbers because I take the time to teach them how to drive a hybrid. My numbers are very high with both cars, I won't post them because most will think I'm not telling the truth, especially with the Prius.
You are correct about the IMA. I got a conformation on it just after my post. (last year I heard from a high up official from Honda that visited our dealer it was a Prius like system, that is why I didn't want to believe the IMA) My understanding is a pack the size of current (in mass) with 170 to 185 volts (current Civic pack is 158 volts). That along with a stronger motor, lighter weight and better aerodynamics will allow a better "electric only" range that the current Civic is to heavy to make useful.
A greater electric only range at HWY speeds and while moving at 25 to 45mph too will kill the prius. Once the momentum is going, electric only would be a great benefit at those speeds
.
AFVM,you seem to be describing Honda Hybrid that works like a Prius. However, the Honda system will be simpler and less expensive than Toyota's system. Am I correct?
HONDA AFVM wrote: Very Tight lipped. I still can't get out of anyone if it will be IMA or a Prius type set up. If it is a Prius killer, then it has to work like one.
In it's current form IMA can't acheive the city/Hwy millage the Prius can. It will be interedting. Will it have a stronger then 158 volts to compare to Prius 500 wapping volts? Will it have a stronger IMA motor? It's exciting to wait for.
And lets hope for this new car, Honda goes balls to the wall with the ADDS.
I thought one of the articles said it would be a smaller and lighter more efficient IMA (don't know if they were speculating).
I know you feel this might not be enough but think about it, if they manage to increase the power on the electric motor and the size of the battery while reducing the system's weight with increased efficiency. That combined with a lower overall vehicle weight compared to the Civic Hybrid by say 250lbs. (with a substantially increased electric-only-mode just to make you happy :) - maybe not electric-only from takeoff but increased anyway.
Now, supose this new hybrid achieves only a couple more MPG than the current Prius (that's good but what will the next Prius bring right? - wait a sec).
If you add to it a substantially lower MSRP compared to the Civic or the Prius - by say 2 grand? In my opinion that would make it a Prius killer! Even if the next Prius increases MPG by 10% the Global Small Hybrid will have the price advantage eaisly quadrupling the Civic Hybrid's sales the first year as they expect and I bet it will better Prius' sales not long after that!
1) Honda has already gone on record stating that the car will have an IMA-style powertrain. So something like the Hybrid Synergy Drive isn't even on the table. Besides, the HSD only has an advantage for the folks who dream of plug-in conversions. Otherwise, it's overly complicated and way more expensive to manufacture than Honda's IMA approach, and there's no real benefit in real-world fuel economy
2) I could be mistaken, but haven't there been a load of discussions and even organized complaints from groups of Prius owners who have seen significantly worse fuel economy than what the EPA numbers suggest? And maybe my recollection is clouded, but wasn't there evidence to suggest that the Civic Hybrid was actually delivering better "real-world" fuel economy numbers on average than the Prius?
I think this new global small hybrid will have superior numbers to the civic hybrid - I'm expecting it to come in at a lighter weight and I'm also expecting Honda to make continued refinements to the technology which will net some gains. I don't know if they're going to hold to it, but Honda also initially stated that they were targeting for this car to come in well under $20k.
Yes, your correct about the Prius to an extent. Most of my customers get close to the old numbers because I take the time to teach them how to drive a hybrid. My numbers are very high with both cars, I won't post them because most will think I'm not telling the truth, especially with the Prius.
You are correct about the IMA. I got a conformation on it just after my post. (last year I heard from a high up official from Honda that visited our dealer it was a Prius like system, that is why I didn't want to believe the IMA) My understanding is a pack the size of current (in mass) with 170 to 185 volts (current Civic pack is 158 volts). That along with a stronger motor, lighter weight and better aerodynamics will allow a better "electric only" range that the current Civic is to heavy to make useful.
A greater electric only range at HWY speeds and while moving at 25 to 45mph too will kill the prius. Once the momentum is going, electric only would be a great benefit at those speeds
.
AFVM,you seem to be describing Honda Hybrid that works like a Prius. However, the Honda system will be simpler and less expensive than Toyota's system. Am I correct?
Yes you are. By increasing the volts, improving aerodynamics, a more powerful electric motor, you get more electric time at speeds of 25mph to 70mph. As you know the less the IC engine runs the better mileage you achieve.
The IMA was never designed to start on electric only like Prius, but it can run on electric only when conditions are just right on a flat road for maybe 1/4 of a mile or so. The Civic is to heavy and its 158 volt pac and current electric motor can't carry the car very long. If the above is done, then a lighter car will have more electric only time in theory.
This car has to have a greater mileage number to be a Prius killer and the only way they can achieve that is with what I stated above.
I think that as long as this new Global Small Hybrid gets better fuel economy than the current generation Prius, and debuts AND arrives at showroom floors before the next generation Prius, it will be able to gain more recognition, as at least for a while it won't be overshadowed by the new Prius, if at all. If they haven't yet dropped the Civic Hybrid by that time, it may also result in Civic Hybrid sales going up as a result of more traffic arriving at showrooms prepared to purchase a hybrid.
I hope the new Honda beats the next-gen Prius to market.
Here in the Pacific NW, the 'greenies' reign supreme, and they are mistakenly informed on Honda vs. Toyota. Owning a couple of coffeehouses, I hear the debate all the time, and it's surprising that Honda never wins.
Example:
1) A customer who knew I know a bit about cars asked whether she should buy a first generation Prius or an Insight. I said the Insight - by a mile. She didn't know if she liked the two seat limitation, so I said ' just by a regular Civic. It'll drive circles around the Prius'.
Of course, she listened to her 'greenie' friends and got the Prius (four years old, 50K miles, & $17K). After a couple months, she complained to the dealer that she was getting only 32-34 mpgs. The Toyota dealer informed her that's what they get. She was furious.
When she came to me complaining, I told her the Insight would get better mileage and an '07 Civic could do what that first-gen Prius could do. She said I had been the only one who'd recommended Honda vs. the Prius.
Honda's reputation is zilch compared to the Prius in the 'green' community- unfortunately. It's all image for them. They all drove Subaru Foresters and now the have Prius.
I'm still confused about the goal of this "Global Small Hybrid." It's supposed to slot UNDER the Civic Hybrid yet compete with the Prius? If it's below the Civic in PRICE and SIZE then it wouldn't compete with the Prius at all.
The Civic is already pretty small. How do they plan on creating a proper "5-seat family vehicle" that's smaller than te Civic?
It's almost guaranteed to be a hatchback, so wouldn't it just be a hybrid Fit?
A.W.E.S.O.M. - O wrote: I hope the new Honda beats the next-gen Prius to market.
Here in the Pacific NW, the 'greenies' reign supreme, and they are mistakenly informed on Honda vs. Toyota. Owning a couple of coffeehouses, I hear the debate all the time, and it's surprising that Honda never wins.
Example:
1) A customer who knew I know a bit about cars asked whether she should buy a first generation Prius or an Insight. I said the Insight - by a mile. She didn't know if she liked the two seat limitation, so I said ' just by a regular Civic. It'll drive circles around the Prius'.
Of course, she listened to her 'greenie' friends and got the Prius (four years old, 50K miles, & $17K). After a couple months, she complained to the dealer that she was getting only 32-34 mpgs. The Toyota dealer informed her that's what they get. She was furious.
When she came to me complaining, I told her the Insight would get better mileage and an '07 Civic could do what that first-gen Prius could do. She said I had been the only one who'd recommended Honda vs. the Prius.
Honda's reputation is zilch compared to the Prius in the 'green' community- unfortunately. It's all image for them. They all drove Subaru Foresters and now the have Prius.
Your so funny, and so right about the Subaru Foresters (outbacks too) The "greenies" have no idea how "Green" Honda is vs Toyota. The prosses from paper to plant end is greener then Toyota. "ZERO land fill" (Subees clame to fame) is old had to Honda, they have been doing that for a decade. Using recycled plastic bottles in the Insights seat faberic was the first and now it has spread to most all Honda models.
I do have to give Toyota credit (I sell them Too) they can market and the Prius was designed from the ground up to be a hybrid, where the civic is a convert, but a damm good one. I have sold 4 more this week and it is putting me closer to 50 Civic hybrids in the past 6 mos and 14 Prius in the same time.
aznstuart wrote: I'm still confused about the goal of this "Global Small Hybrid." It's supposed to slot UNDER the Civic Hybrid yet compete with the Prius? If it's below the Civic in PRICE and SIZE then it wouldn't compete with the Prius at all.
The Civic is already pretty small. How do they plan on creating a proper "5-seat family vehicle" that's smaller than te Civic?
It's almost guaranteed to be a hatchback, so wouldn't it just be a hybrid Fit?
It is going to have design Q's from the FCX Clairty which is not a small car, but from my understanding it is going to have a long swoop hatch like the FCX and a split window like the insight. I bet it will be some what like a larger 4door Insight is what I'm guessing.
I don't think Honda is going to move it up scale. I think it will have maybe a Navi option, but nothing like a Prius. I think the Civic will chug along, but I'm wondering how it will fair with the new Hybrid. Again if it is going to be a Prius killer it will have to meet the ride, quality and mileage of the Prius, thats a TALL order for a car under 20k. We will soon find out.
That render looks good, and in line with what we've been hearing so far (inspired in the Clarity; smaller than a Civic).
I would still be a bit disappointed for it not to be more "wagon-like", but I guess that this shape is better if it has to be a "global-model".
Still hope that it will remain a hatch and be able to fold the seats down.
For those that may trust this info in what seems Japanese Mag-X, here are the figures translated into something easy to read:
- Price bellow 2 million Yen.
- Fuel economy in Japanese cycle : 37 km/L.
- Size: 4400 x 1720 x 1520 mm (as tall as a Fit, but larger and wider).
- Japanese debut: March 2009
For comparison, here is the same Japanese data for the Civic Hybrid.
- Price : 2.3 -> 2.6 Myen.
- Fuel Economy : 26 -> 31 km/L (depending on trim, lowest for 16" luxo-trim, highest for a base trim without side-airbags or curtain-airbags).
- Size : 4540 x 1750 x 1435 mm
All in all, compared then with the middle weight Civic (which is more representative of what's offered in foreign markets), MagX is saying that the new GSHybrid should be:
- 20% cheaper.
- 20-30% more fuel efficient.
Art of Snow wrote: We can also compare it to the Prius:
- Price: ???
- Fuel economy: 35km/L (Prius III should reach 40km/L)
- Size: 4450 x 1725 x 1490 mm
Now, we understand why they call the GSH a "Prius Killer" !
Is Honda planning to keep the current Civic Hybrid on the market after the GSH is introduced on the market? For me, it wouldn't really make sense.
I'm not in yet. Not till I see it from the source. I still believe it will be a larger car, FCX Clairty type made into a hybrid. I'll wait till Honda releases the photos before I say good job!
Art of Snow wrote: We can also compare it to the Prius:
- Price: ???
- Fuel economy: 35km/L (Prius III should reach 40km/L)
- Size: 4450 x 1725 x 1490 mm
Now, we understand why they call the GSH a "Prius Killer" !
Is Honda planning to keep the current Civic Hybrid on the market after the GSH is introduced on the market? For me, it wouldn't really make sense.
I'm not in yet. Not till I see it from the source. I still believe it will be a larger car, FCX Clairty type made into a hybrid. I'll wait till Honda releases the photos before I say good job!
I don't know where you got that idea because all along Honda has emphasized that it would be a small car, smaller and cheaper than the Civic. The only thing that was said linking it to the FCX was a story in Automotive News that said it would borrow some of the styling cues from the FCX.
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